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scribes digest        Friday, December 13 2002        Volume 08 : Number 095



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 [scribes]: flames
 Re: [scribes]: flames
 Re: [scribes]: flames
 [scribes]: Oaken Scribal Gathering?
 [scribes]: Walnut ink
 Re: [scribes]: Walnut ink
 Re: [scribes]: Oaken Scribal Gathering?
 [scribes]: heart-shaped manuscripts
 [scribes]: Re: heart-shaped manuscripts

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:48:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Sunshine <raven_bright@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: flames

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Does anyone know of any good sources for illuminated flames? I can find some good comets, but what I'm trying to do here is flames that lick up around one side of the text (A treastie on hell and the sins) and everything I do looks like it belongs on the side of a race car. 

help?
Constance the flameless.



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<P>Does anyone know of any good sources for illuminated flames? I can find some good comets, but what I'm trying to do here is flames that lick up around one side of the text (A treastie on hell and the sins) and everything I do looks like it belongs on the side of a race car. </P>
<P>help?<BR>Constance the flameless.</P><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:10:28 -0800
From: Maria faul <mfaul@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: flames

I am looking at the book "Fabulous Feasts Medieval Cookery and Cermony" 
by Madeleine Pelner Cosman on Plate 15 it shows two men baking bread 
with flames.  The illumination is (From a Book of Hours, 15th Century, 
French.  Oxford, Bodleian Library, Ms. Conaon Liturg. 99, f.16)

Another illumination a few pages before Pl. 12 a cook lifting food from 
a boiling cauldron under with you can see the flames.  (Old Testament, 
13th Century, French.  New York, The Pierpont Morgan Library, M638, f.20r)

There are is at least one more that I saw when I was closing the book. 
I don't know if it covers other centuries but this might be a place to 
start your hunt.

Hope this helps you in your search for flames. :)
Maria del Norte,
Mists, West

Sunshine wrote:
> Does anyone know of any good sources for illuminated flames? I can find 
> some good comets, but what I'm trying to do here is flames that lick up 
> around one side of the text (A treastie on hell and the sins) and 
> everything I do looks like it belongs on the side of a race car.
> 
> help?
> Constance the flameless.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus 
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> - 
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:27:43 -0500
From: "Julie WIlliams" <alenthea@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: flames

Another place to look is in Catherine of Cleves.  I have the book of
manuscripts and there are a lot of miniatures that portray fiery brimstone
and hell, ie lots of flames.  Those might give you an idea for your flames.

If you like, you can email me privately if you want them and I will try to
get some of them scanned and send to you so you can get an idea.

Failenn
Hartstone, Aethelmearc

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria faul" <mfaul@earthlink.net>
To: "Sunshine" <raven_bright@yahoo.com>
Cc: <scribes@castle.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [scribes]: flames


> I am looking at the book "Fabulous Feasts Medieval Cookery and Cermony"
> by Madeleine Pelner Cosman on Plate 15 it shows two men baking bread
> with flames.  The illumination is (From a Book of Hours, 15th Century,
> French.  Oxford, Bodleian Library, Ms. Conaon Liturg. 99, f.16)
>
> Another illumination a few pages before Pl. 12 a cook lifting food from
> a boiling cauldron under with you can see the flames.  (Old Testament,
> 13th Century, French.  New York, The Pierpont Morgan Library, M638, f.20r)
>
> There are is at least one more that I saw when I was closing the book.
> I don't know if it covers other centuries but this might be a place to
> start your hunt.
>
> Hope this helps you in your search for flames. :)
> Maria del Norte,
> Mists, West
>
> Sunshine wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any good sources for illuminated flames? I can find
> > some good comets, but what I'm trying to do here is flames that lick up
> > around one side of the text (A treastie on hell and the sins) and
> > everything I do looks like it belongs on the side of a race car.
> >
> > help?
> > Constance the flameless.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus
> > <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> -
> > Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> > <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:42:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Brother Thomas the Green <thomas_the_green@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Oaken Scribal Gathering?

Hello and greetings unto the list from this most busy
monk called Brother Thomas.

I was wondering if there was any interest among the
Oaken Scribes to get together at an event this Spring
and show of our work, have a discussion round-table on
various topics (technique, sources, etc) and possibly
have some classes if anyone's willing to share some
tricks of the trade.

If the Kingdom Heraldic (and scribal) symposium is in
Fall, then I'd like to offer an alternative in Spring
for those that couldn't go; like me. :)

Let me know what you think.

Always the Quest, 
- -Brother Thomas


=====
"Yes I know I'm evil but I'm just so good at it."
http://www.brotherthomas.com
ICQ# 72350435

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:52:06 -0800
From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com
Subject: [scribes]: Walnut ink

A kind gentle here on the list sent me some walnuts a few weeks ago from her
yard, and I've discovered something about walnuts:   Don't leave them in the
plastic bag too long ;-)  I had left these in the bag and box they were shipped
in with the intent of getting to them "later".  Last night I shifted the box
from where it was sitting on the drafting table, and a few minutes later came
back into the room and noticed a large black blob on the wood of the drafting
table.  I thought to myself for  a minute if I had spilled ink there recently
and realized the box of walnuts must be leaking.  Sure enough, it was.  The
walnuts had gotten rather mushy on the outside (which I guess you normally do
with soaking them in water.  So, by necessity "later" became "now" and they're
soaking in some water in a covered plastic bucket.

My question is how long should I let this soak before boiling away the excess to
make the ink?  It almost looks ready to go now, and I've got time this weekend
(probably) to boil them up.

Maybe I discovered a new method of making walnut ink - no water needed, just
lack of time and a plastic bag ;-)

Tetchubah

"A great warrior, hmm?  Wars not make one great."  - Yoda


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:10:05 -0600
From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" <aheilvei@uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Walnut ink

At 03:52 PM 12/12/2002 -0800, Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote:
>My question is how long should I let this soak before boiling away the 
>excess to make the ink?  It almost looks ready to go now, and I've got 
>time this weekend (probably) to boil them up.
>
>Maybe I discovered a new method of making walnut ink - no water needed, 
>just lack of time and a plastic bag ;-)

That's an old method. :^)  If the liquid is thick/thin enough and has the 
color you want, you can just use the 'juice' from blackened walnuts.  You 
really should add a tich of gum though.

You can put them on the stove now and begin to boil it down.  I highly 
suggest adding gum after the ink has become the color you desire rather 
than at the first.  You also can add a bit of vinegar and/or salt to help 
keep the fungus at bay.  An old pair of nylons or some mesh cloth to strain 
it and you've got ink!

Hope this helps,
Smiles,
Despina


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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:52:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" <hughesjp@fyi.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Oaken Scribal Gathering?

I'd be interested in coming.  After all, my roots are Oaken.

Graidhne
BMDL

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Brother Thomas the Green wrote:

> Hello and greetings unto the list from this most busy
> monk called Brother Thomas.
> 
> I was wondering if there was any interest among the
> Oaken Scribes to get together at an event this Spring
> and show of our work, have a discussion round-table on
> various topics (technique, sources, etc) and possibly
> have some classes if anyone's willing to share some
> tricks of the trade.
> 
> If the Kingdom Heraldic (and scribal) symposium is in
> Fall, then I'd like to offer an alternative in Spring
> for those that couldn't go; like me. :)
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> 
> Always the Quest, 
> -Brother Thomas
> 
> 
> =====
> "Yes I know I'm evil but I'm just so good at it."
> http://www.brotherthomas.com
> ICQ# 72350435
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
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> with a blank Subject: line and
> unsubscribe scribes
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> the body.
> 
> 

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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:49:45 +1100
From: Mark Calderwood <mark-c@acay.com.au>
Subject: [scribes]: heart-shaped manuscripts

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for information on heart-shaped manuscripts, with the intention 
of having a go at making one over the course of the next year. They aren't 
common, but there are a couple of surviving heart shaped chansonniers 
dating to the late 15th century, and they appear in a couple of portraits 
from around this time as well.

Does anyone have any info about these, or can direct me to likely sources? 
There's not much on the web or in my library...There is a book called "The 
Book of the Heart" by Eric Jager published by the Uni of Chicago press, but 
I don't know if it's specifically about these manuscripts or about 
something else and it's a lot of money in Australian pesos to lay out on 
something sight unseen- has anyone read/ bought this book, and is it worth 
getting?

Many thanks (and thanks to all the folks who sent rabbit pictures too!)

Giles

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:33:05 -0500
From: Elizabeth Blatt <heb4@cornell.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: heart-shaped manuscripts

- --=====================_621951468==_.ALT
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At 08:49 PM 12/13/2002, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I'm looking for information on heart-shaped manuscripts, with the 
>intention of having a go at making one over the course of the next year. 
>They aren't common, but there are a couple of surviving heart shaped 
>chansonniers dating to the late 15th century, and they appear in a couple 
>of portraits from around this time as well.
>
>Does anyone have any info about these, or can direct me to likely sources? 
>There's not much on the web or in my library...There is a book called "The 
>Book of the Heart" by Eric Jager published by the Uni of Chicago press, 
>but I don't know if it's specifically about these manuscripts or about 
>something else and it's a lot of money in Australian pesos to lay out on 
>something sight unseen- has anyone read/ bought this book, and is it worth 
>getting?

I haven't read the book, but from reviews, I don't think it would help you 
with what you want. It seems to focus on an exploration of the heart as 
icon and symbol in the Middle Ages.  It's not really going to have 
bibliographic information about the manuscript.

Here's the research I have on the subject (I've looked into the books for 
the same reasons you're interested in them):

The heart-shaped books seem to be a brief fad, popular in northern Europe 
in the late 1400s; other oddly-shaped books have popped up from this time 
as well.  Since this is almost fifty years after the introduction of 
moveable-type printing, and its acceptance was spreading widely as books 
were made accessible to larger segments of the population than more 
expensive manuscript books reached, one possibility behind the popularity 
of these oddly-shaped manuscripts is that they were novelty items, designed 
to catch the interest of patrons as printed books began to compete strongly 
with manuscript production. (Jager's book would probably provide details 
about why heart-shapes were popular during this period, and what other 
trends the image of a heart tied into, like the veneration of the Sacred 
Heart; the heart also tied into romance literature, where it was sometimes 
the symbol of the Holy Grail, I think.)

As far as I know, only one example of a heart-shaped book is extant; from 
what can be told about these, it's unusual in that it is, when closed, a 
complete heart shape; when opened, as front and back cover are both hearts, 
it looks like two conjoined hearts.  The covering of its boards is red 
velvet.  The book is a collection of secular love songs in French and 
Italian, and was decorated by either a French or Flemish illuminator 
between 1460-1476.

Two paintings--possibly modeled on the same earlier source--picture a 
heart-shaped book.  In both cases, the book is, when closed, half a 
heart--a single lobe--so that, when opened, the reader holds a single 
heart.  In both paintings, the covering of the book is again red.  The 
paintings in question are "Young Man Holding a Book" at the Metropolitan 
Museum of Art in New York (Accession number: 50.145.27, bequest of Mary 
Stillman Harkness, 1950); the second is in the National Gallery, 
London.  Both are discussed in a Met publication:  "Early Flemish Portraits 
1425-1525" by Guy Bauman.  Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, v. 153, no. 
4 (Spring 1986), pp. 40-41 (ISSN 0026-1521).   They're attributed to the 
same artist, a follower of Rogier van der Weyden's, called the Master of 
Sainte Gudule.  The passage disussing the manuscripts depicted is: "The 
heart-shaped books may indicate a romantic context for these portraits; the 
only known fifteenth-century heart-shaped book is a collection of French 
and Italian love songs made sometime between 1460 and 1476, the 
_Chansonnier de Jean de Montchenu_ in the Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris 
(Rothschild 2973).  However, a prayer book might just as well have a heart 
shape--indicative of passionate devotion--and the Eucharist scene in the 
background of the Museum's portrait supports the latter 
interpretation."  The posture of the men in the portraits agrees with the 
latter interpretation, I think.

The Bulletin doesn't reproduce the paintings large enough to provide really 
fine details, but the text of the heart manuscripts is a gothic script 
decorated with (in one) pen-flourished capitals two lines high in red ink, 
flush with the left margin; the pages hold about eight lines of 
text.  Proportionally, the height of the manuscript is perhaps an inch 
longer than the length of the man's hands from base of palm to tip of 
fingers; at its widest point, each folio is the width of the man's 
palm.    In the second portrait, the dimensions are a little smaller; the 
edges of the pages appear to be gilded; and there are seven lines of text 
on each folio.  Initials at the beginnings of sentences are in red, with 
one larger pen-flourished capital three lines high and flush with the left 
margin.  The text block of the folios in both paintings is rectangular (ie, 
the shape of the text block does not conform to the shape of the folio), 
justified to right and left margins. There are a couple lines of text which 
don't reach all the way to the left margin; for those sentences, the rest 
of the line is left blank (so there's no decorative filler).

For the _Chansonnier de Jean de Montchenu_, two resources speak of it, but 
neither give a whole lot of details.  One of the sources is _The Light of 
the Past : A Treasury of Horizon. New York: American Heritage Pub. Co., 
1965. pp. 144-149.  Although the Horizon books aren't the best sources for 
historical information, the nice thing about this is that three bifolio 
spreads (ie, six pages) of the book are reproduced in color at what is 
probably near the size of the original. Here, the text blocks, though 
rectangular, do follow the shape of the manuscript to a greater degree, 
shaped somewhat like this (I'm typing it in a fixed-width font, so if the 
lines are misalingned, try viewing this email in Courier):
     ____
  __|    |
|       |
|       |
|__     |
    |____|

The part of the text block which juts out is always faces the outer edge of 
the folio.  The script is a French bastarde, with gilded Lombardic capitals 
on colored grounds of red and blue decorated with vines and leaves, 
approximately three lines high (placed at the beginnings of new verses, but 
since the book provides the music as well as lyrics of the songs, the 
capitals begin a line of musical notation, not text; which is why the 
line-height is approximate).  The border illumination is fairly typical 
French flowers and acanthus leaves, with animals and grotesqueries and 
birds tucked in here and there.  If the reproductions in this volume are 
anywhere near the size of the original, their dimensions might be of use to 
you:  the text block is 149mm high x 111 wide at its widest, and 70 at its 
narrowest; the text block is outlined and ruled with red ink.  The capitals 
are each about 20mm h x 14-19 w.  At the inside margin, the height of the 
pages is 215mm; from the topmost curve of the highest lobe to the bottom of 
the page, it's 255mm. The folios are about 175mm wide, and were probably 
cut from a template. The folios shown in the Horizon pictures are  f. 2v-3r 
(maybe; these aren't foliated), 3v-4r, and 19v-20r.

Two other sources provide pictures of this manuscript, but neither are as 
useful in the detail as the Horizon book.  One is _Mise en page et mise en 
text du livre manuscrit_, edited by Henri-Jean Martin and Jean 
Vezin.  Paris: Ed. du Cercle de la Librarie-Promodis, 1990, figure 
441.  This is a black and white photo of folio 20v-21r (not folios shown in 
the Horizon copy) approximately 125mm x 83mm.  This source dates the book 
to 1460-1476, but doesn't describe it any further than naming it, dating 
it, and placing it in the context of various oddly-shaped medieval 
manuscripts (ie, the tallest, the smallest, and so forth).  The last source 
is--well, feh. I think I sold the book; so I don't have a specific page 
reference; but it wasn't outstandingly helpful, really. It was _Writing: 
the Story of Alphabets and Scripts_ by Georges Jean. 1992, Harry N. Abrams, 
Publisher.  It had a thumbnail-sized (literally; the image wasn't more than 
1x1") color photo of the
a bifolio spread of the _Chansonnier_, and that was it.

For more details about the _Chansonnier_, I'd suggest checking out the 
website of the Bibliotheque Nationale and seeing if you can find the email 
address of one of their medieval manuscripts curators.  Email them, explain 
what you're interested in, and see if they will send you their database 
record on the manuscript, which will have specific details about the size, 
script, and so forth.  When I've contacted libraries and museums in the 
past with queries of this nature, they've been very willing to send that 
kind of information along--generally, it takes no more effort for them than 
copying and pasting their electronic catalogue record into an email for 
you.  The BN may have their catalogue accessible online, for that matter 
(it's been a while since I was last collecting information on these 
manuscripts, and I haven't had any other need to look at their site; so I 
don't know for sure).

I hope this helps; if you've any questions about what I've said, please 
don't hesitate to ask!

Best wishes,
Elianora Mathewes
Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
At 08:49 PM 12/13/2002, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite>Hi everyone,<br><br>
I'm looking for information on heart-shaped manuscripts, with the
intention of having a go at making one over the course of the next year.
They aren't common, but there are a couple of surviving heart shaped
chansonniers dating to the late 15th century, and they appear in a couple
of portraits from around this time as well.<br><br>
Does anyone have any info about these, or can direct me to likely
sources? There's not much on the web or in my library...There is a book
called &quot;The Book of the Heart&quot; by Eric Jager published by the
Uni of Chicago press, but I don't know if it's specifically about these
manuscripts or about something else and it's a lot of money in Australian
pesos to lay out on something sight unseen- has anyone read/ bought this
book, and is it worth getting?</blockquote><br>
I haven't read the book, but from reviews, I don't think it would help
you with what you want. It seems to focus on an exploration of the heart
as icon and symbol in the Middle Ages.&nbsp; It's not really going to
have bibliographic information about the manuscript.<br><br>
Here's the research I have on the subject (I've looked into the books for
the same reasons you're interested in them):<br><br>
The heart-shaped books seem to be a brief fad, popular in northern Europe
in the late 1400s; other oddly-shaped books have popped up from this time
as well.&nbsp; Since this is almost fifty years after the introduction of
moveable-type printing, and its acceptance was spreading widely as books
were made accessible to larger segments of the population than more
expensive manuscript books reached, one possibility behind the popularity
of these oddly-shaped manuscripts is that they were novelty items,
designed to catch the interest of patrons as printed books began to
compete strongly with manuscript production. (Jager's book would probably
provide details about why heart-shapes were popular during this period,
and what other trends the image of a heart tied into, like the veneration
of the Sacred Heart; the heart also tied into romance literature, where
it was sometimes the symbol of the Holy Grail, I think.)<br><br>
As far as I know, only one example of a heart-shaped book is extant; from
what can be told about these, it's unusual in that it is, when closed, a
complete heart shape; when opened, as front and back cover are both
hearts, it looks like two conjoined hearts.&nbsp; The covering of its
boards is red velvet.&nbsp; The book is a collection of secular love
songs in French and Italian, and was decorated by either a French or
Flemish illuminator between 1460-1476.<br><br>
Two paintings--possibly modeled on the same earlier source--picture a
heart-shaped book.&nbsp; In both cases, the book is, when closed, half a
heart--a single lobe--so that, when opened, the reader holds a single
heart.&nbsp; In both paintings, the covering of the book is again
red.&nbsp; The paintings in question are &quot;Young Man Holding a
Book&quot; at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York (Accession
number: 50.145.27, bequest of Mary Stillman Harkness, 1950); the second
is in the National Gallery, London.&nbsp; Both are discussed in a Met
publication:&nbsp; &quot;Early Flemish Portraits 1425-1525&quot; by Guy
Bauman.&nbsp; Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, v. 153, no. 4 (Spring
1986), pp. 40-41 (ISSN 0026-1521).&nbsp;&nbsp; They're attributed to the
same artist, a follower of Rogier van der Weyden's, called the Master of
Sainte Gudule.&nbsp; The passage disussing the manuscripts depicted is:
&quot;The heart-shaped books may indicate a romantic context for these
portraits; the only known fifteenth-century heart-shaped book is a
collection of French and Italian love songs made sometime between 1460
and 1476, the _Chansonnier de Jean de Montchenu_ in the Bibliotheque
Nationale, Paris (Rothschild 2973).&nbsp; However, a prayer book might
just as well have a heart shape--indicative of passionate devotion--and
the Eucharist scene in the background of the Museum's portrait supports
the latter interpretation.&quot;&nbsp; The posture of the men in the
portraits agrees with the latter interpretation, I think.&nbsp;=20
<br><br>
The Bulletin doesn't reproduce the paintings large enough to provide
really fine details, but the text of the heart manuscripts is a gothic
script decorated with (in one) pen-flourished capitals two lines high in
red ink, flush with the left margin; the pages hold about eight lines of
text.&nbsp; Proportionally, the height of the manuscript is perhaps an
inch longer than the length of the man's hands from base of palm to tip
of fingers; at its widest point, each folio is the width of the man's
palm.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In the second portrait, the dimensions are a
little smaller; the edges of the pages appear to be gilded; and there are
seven lines of text on each folio.&nbsp; Initials at the beginnings of
sentences are in red, with one larger pen-flourished capital three lines
high and flush with the left margin.&nbsp; The text block of the folios
in both paintings is rectangular (ie, the shape of the text block does
not conform to the shape of the folio), justified to right and left
margins. There are a couple lines of text which don't reach all the way
to the left margin; for those sentences, the rest of the line is left
blank (so there's no decorative filler).<br><br>
For the _Chansonnier de Jean de Montchenu_, two resources speak of it,
but neither give a whole lot of details.&nbsp; One of the sources is _The
<font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica">Light of the Past : A Treasury of Horizon.
New York: American Heritage Pub. Co., 1965. pp. 144-149.&nbsp; Although
the Horizon books aren't the best sources for historical information, the
nice thing about this is that three bifolio spreads (ie, six pages) of
the book are reproduced in color at what is probably near the size of the
original. Here, the text blocks, though rectangular, do follow the shape
of the manuscript to a greater degree, shaped somewhat like this (I'm
typing it in a fixed-width font, so if the lines are misalingned, try
viewing this email in Courier):<br>
</font><font face=3D"Courier New, Courier">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ____<br>
&nbsp;__|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
|__&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; |____|&nbsp; <br><br>
</font>The part of the text block which juts out is always faces the
outer edge of the folio.&nbsp; The script is a French bastarde, with
gilded Lombardic capitals on colored grounds of red and blue decorated
with vines and leaves, approximately three lines high (placed at the
beginnings of new verses, but since the book provides the music as well
as lyrics of the songs, the capitals begin a line of musical notation,
not text; which is why the line-height is approximate).&nbsp; The border
illumination is fairly typical French flowers and acanthus leaves, with
animals and grotesqueries and birds tucked in here and there.&nbsp; If
the reproductions in this volume are anywhere near the size of the
original, their dimensions might be of use to you:&nbsp; the text block
is 149mm high x 111 wide at its widest, and 70 at its narrowest; the text
block is outlined and ruled with red ink.&nbsp; The capitals are each
about 20mm h x 14-19 w.&nbsp; At the inside margin, the height of the
pages is 215mm; from the topmost curve of the highest lobe to the bottom
of the page, it's 255mm. The folios are about 175mm wide, and were
probably cut from a template. The folios shown in the Horizon pictures
are&nbsp; f. 2v-3r (maybe; these aren't foliated), 3v-4r, and
19v-20r.<br><br>
Two other sources provide pictures of this manuscript, but neither are as
useful in the detail as the Horizon book.&nbsp; One is _Mise en page et
mise en text du livre manuscrit_, edited by Henri-Jean Martin and Jean
Vezin.&nbsp; Paris: Ed. du Cercle de la Librarie-Promodis, 1990, figure
441.&nbsp; This is a black and white photo of folio 20v-21r (not folios
shown in the Horizon copy) approximately 125mm x 83mm.&nbsp; This source
dates the book to 1460-1476, but doesn't describe it any further than
naming it, dating it, and placing it in the context of various
oddly-shaped medieval manuscripts (ie, the tallest, the smallest, and so
forth).&nbsp; The last source is--well, feh. I think I sold the book; so
I don't have a specific page reference; but it wasn't outstandingly
helpful, really. It was _Writing: the Story of Alphabets and Scripts_ by
Georges Jean. 1992, Harry N. Abrams, Publisher.&nbsp; It had a
thumbnail-sized (literally; the image wasn't more than 1x1&quot;) color
photo of the <br>
a bifolio spread of the _Chansonnier_, and that was it.<br><br>
For more details about the _Chansonnier_, I'd suggest checking out the
website of the Bibliotheque Nationale and seeing if you can find the
email address of one of their medieval manuscripts curators.&nbsp; Email
them, explain what you're interested in, and see if they will send you
their database record on the manuscript, which will have specific details
about the size, script, and so forth.&nbsp; When I've contacted libraries
and museums in the past with queries of this nature, they've been very
willing to send that kind of information along--generally, it takes no
more effort for them than copying and pasting their electronic catalogue
record into an email for you.&nbsp; The BN may have their catalogue
accessible online, for that matter (it's been a while since I was last
collecting information on these manuscripts, and I haven't had any other
need to look at their site; so I don't know for sure).<br><br>
I hope this helps; if you've any questions about what I've said, please
don't hesitate to ask!<br><br>
Best wishes,<br>
Elianora Mathewes<br>
Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE</html>

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End of scribes digest V8 #95
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