From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #91 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, December 4 2002 Volume 08 : Number 091 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Intro Re: [scribes]: Intro Re: [scribes]: Intro Re: [scribes]: Intro Re: [scribes]: Intro [scribes]: Humble appologies Re: [scribes]: Intro [scribes]: An alternate calendar to consider [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. and Lady A Re: [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. an... RE: [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. an... [scribes]: Book of kells [scribes]: Scribes Symposium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 08:58:56 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro At 08:47 AM 12/2/2002 -0600, Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil wrote: >At 07:21 PM 12/1/2002 -0700, Gytha wrote: >>I'm looking for SCA-acceptable substitutes for some of the more toxic >>substances used in period, such as orpiment, cinnabar and white lead. I also just found this article on substitutes, http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/2036/periodcolors.html hope it helps. Be sure to put the whole URL in the box. Smiles, Despina - ---------- A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 10:01:21 -0700 From: "Gytha" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro On 2 Dec 2002 at 8:47, Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil wrote: > There are non-toxic substitutes for most of the colors you want. > > The first that comes to mind is zinc oxide or titanium white for white > lead. Though both are good substitutes, nothing stands up on other colors > for whitework like lead white. > > For Orpiment, substitute permanent yellow or gamboge. > > For Cinnabar, I can't think of a straight substitute that isn't toxic. I > use cadmiums myself but then, I'm evidently not so picky about the toxicity > of the paints I use as a lot of other people. Okay, *how* toxic are these pigments? I'd prefer to use the originals if body parts aren't going to fall off as a result. I'm used to using a dust mask and gloves when using fiber dye powders and mordants, and mixing them out on the (covered) back porch, not in the house. Does the bigger danger lie in working with the powders without safety gear? I'm not going to be putting the stuff in my mouth or letting it sit on my skin for any length of time... :) > > If your earth based pigments aren't mixing well, put a drop of ox gall in > and mix a short time before adding your binder. A drop of honey will make > your paints more flexible. Thanks. So far I haven't had any problems with either, but I appreciate the tip. > BTW, many SCA scribes never mix their own paints, preferring to buy and use > tube gouache or watercolor already mixed. Your comfort level is what's > important. Comfort level = oboyoboy more pretty color powders to play with! Part of the enjoyment will be seeing how different pigments react with different media, playing around with mixing colors, etc. Just out of curiosity, tho, would adding a little chalk to watercolors make a passable gouache, or is it more involved than that? I do have a fair sized stash of watercolors... Gytha Thanks! Gytha > > Hope this helps and welcome back to the world of scribing! > > Smiles, > Despina > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 11:36:13 -0600 From: Cindy Baker Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro Greetings, Gytha. At 10:01 AM 12/2/2002 -0700, Gytha wrote: >On 2 Dec 2002 at 8:47, Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil wrote: > > > There are non-toxic substitutes for most of the colors you want. > > > > The first that comes to mind is zinc oxide or titanium white for white > > lead. Though both are good substitutes, nothing stands up on other colors > > for whitework like lead white. > > > > For Orpiment, substitute permanent yellow or gamboge. > > > > For Cinnabar, I can't think of a straight substitute that isn't toxic. I > > use cadmiums myself but then, I'm evidently not so picky about the > toxicity > > of the paints I use as a lot of other people. > >Okay, *how* toxic are these pigments? I'd prefer to use the originals >if body parts aren't going to fall off as a result. I'm used to using a >dust mask and gloves when using fiber dye powders and mordants, >and mixing them out on the (covered) back porch, not in the house. >Does the bigger danger lie in working with the powders without >safety gear? I'm not going to be putting the stuff in my mouth or >letting it sit on my skin for any length of time... :) Orpiment contains arsenic & gloves are HIGHLY recommended, even when you're using the finished paint. Most paint pigments are ground finely enough to be an irritant to your lungs, eyes, etc. & you should use a filter mask & gloves whenever you are making paint from powdered pigments. For most other colors, a filter mask & gloves when you're mixing them are sufficient precautions. Cinnabar contains mercury. Naples yellow contains lead. White lead contains lead (obviously). There are also red & yellow lead colors. All colors containing cadmium are very toxic. Most metals are considered toxic - copper, antimony, cobalt, nickel, etc. > > > > If your earth based pigments aren't mixing well, put a drop of ox gall in > > and mix a short time before adding your binder. A drop of honey will make > > your paints more flexible. > >Thanks. So far I haven't had any problems with either, but I >appreciate the tip. > > > BTW, many SCA scribes never mix their own paints, preferring to buy and > use > > tube gouache or watercolor already mixed. Your comfort level is what's > > important. > >Comfort level = oboyoboy more pretty color powders to play with! >Part of the enjoyment will be seeing how different pigments react >with different media, playing around with mixing colors, etc. Just out >of curiosity, tho, would adding a little chalk to watercolors make a >passable gouache, or is it more involved than that? I do have a fair >sized stash of watercolors... Blanc fixe (a form of barium) is the usual additive to make pigments opaque enough for gouache. Chalk might work if it were ground finely enough. It might make the colors a bit streaky though. Watercolors can be used if you apply them in a thick, opaque layer, rather than the usual thin washes. You will want to add a bit more binder though. Most watercolors are deliberately "under-bound" so that you can get those lovely transparent washes. Gum arabic or glair in your paint water is usually sufficient to get your watercolors to stay in a thicker layer. You may have to play around with the quantities. You may also wish to add just a tiny drop of honey or sugar to the mix if your paint seems to become brittle or chip & crack when you paint it on more thickly. (The sugar will keep the mix a bit more flexible.) Good luck!! Ellen of the Scholars =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:31:12 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro Dear Gytha, Welcome to the list. I want to jump in here with some advice. First, I presume that the reason that you are tempering your own colors is to have the medieval experience rather than a purely modern one. That is great. However, a LOT of scribes get started with misinformation about what works and how to do things. For example, the question you asked about mixing colors is not one that anybody here really should have answered without first asking what type of egg binder you were using and what type of pigment. By first knowing whether you are using egg yolk or egg white, we can ask about the diligence in preparing the binder correctly. To make glair from egg white takes a LOT of beating or it will be stringy. To make a yolk binder you need to keep the white away completely. I have a dry pigment raw sienna that absolutely sucks in illumination techniques. By its nature it is gritty, translucent, and ugly. On the other hand, yellow ochre, green and red earth colors, are all very smooth in aqueous paint. My sienna may just need regrinding, but it isn't a common medieval color, so I rarely use it anyway. Also, while adding a little honey to paint can help make it flexible so it won't crack, adding too much can make it permanently sticky and gooey. I am sure Despina didn't intend that you should use a "drop" as a specific amount because without knowing how much paint is in the pot the amount to suggest is unknown. A better answer is that the proportion of honey is a mere trace percent. You shouldn't need to do this at all unless you are going with a thick application with a heavy proportion of binder to get a translucent and glossy appearance that stands up a little on the page. Start with as little honey as possible from a knife tip and experiment by letting it dry all the way on the page. Check in a few days and add more if it still cracks. The only way to really learn this is to actually see how much you put in. After all, how many milliliters is the drop out of YOUR specific eye dropper? How much water content was in that honey? Variables need to be considered on this scale. As for pigment toxicity, you should be OK if you follow these concepts: It is less about how many barriers you have (gloves, mask, etc.) and more about how clean you are in the first place. Yes, if you have skin cuts or a drafty location you need these things. However, many people still expose themselves because the color is on their gloves when they use one glove to remove the other! Or the mask! And rubber gloves snap, sending the pigment everywhere -especially into the air! I use a knife, no gloves or mask, am very careful, and wash my hands right after mixing it with binder. Once you get the dry pigment mixed into something wet, the exposure to airborne is reduced. But you can kick it up between the jar and the mixing bowl, and even in the process of stirring it in. Go light and slow, and wipe all color dust away from the table with a moist tissue after transferring it. When you unscrewed the lid and when you screwed it back on you may have spilled dust on the table or even the outside of the jar. If there is no color dust on the table, there is no color dust to be accidentally picked up and moved around. Cap the jar right away. Wipe tools with something wet and toss the tissue. Use screw top jars. Don't use little glassine envelopes or snap cap jars (35mm film cans) because they both throw a LOT of contamination around. Use a knife tip to draw out color from the jar. Don't exhale on it when you do move color. Get it wet immediately. And remember Heavy Metal is only good in magazine form. RanthulfR - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts: Original Art & Prints for sale! Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:45:23 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro > The first that comes to mind is zinc oxide or titanium white for white > lead. Though both are good substitutes, nothing stands up on other colors > for whitework like lead white. I'd argue that Dr. Ph Martin's Flo-2 Opaque White (NOT Bleedproof White) does indeed stand up--and out-- like lead white, and it's non toxic. Pearl carries it, as does NY Central Art Supply. Chiara da Ravenna Stonemarche, EK (NH) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:22:31 -0600 From: "Vicki Crouse" Subject: [scribes]: Humble appologies This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. - --=_1E42C513.94F598F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kind Gentles, I just realized that I have not introduced myself to this list. I am on a couple of others and they tend to blurr sometimes. Greetings, I am Victoria laRussa. I am a merchant class widow born on the Isle of Mann in 1399. I was fostered to the court of the de Medici in Padua. I now reside in the Shire of Crescent Moon in the kingdom of Calontir. I am an illuminator and I am working on calligraphy. - --=_1E42C513.94F598F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: HTML
Kind Gentles,
I just realized that I have not introduced myself to this list. I am on a couple of others and they tend to blurr sometimes. Greetings, I am Victoria laRussa.  I am a merchant class widow born on the Isle of Mann in 1399.  I was fostered to the court of the de Medici in Padua. I now reside in the Shire of Crescent Moon in the kingdom of Calontir. I am an illuminator and I am working on calligraphy.
- --=_1E42C513.94F598F4-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:29:47 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Intro >I'd argue that Dr. Ph Martin's Flo-2 Opaque White (NOT Bleedproof White) >does indeed stand up--and out-- like lead white, and it's non toxic. I've heard of it but never tried it myself. I was speaking of "in the realm of pigments' sort of way rather than "anything available on the market". Thanks for the heads up. Smiles, Despina =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:51:21 -0600 From: Greg Young/Jocelyn Wirth Subject: [scribes]: An alternate calendar to consider >Well, this isn't a substitute for the Medieval Woman calendar, but there >is a calendar that is of interest to scribes. It is the "A Medieval Year: >The Book of Rural Occupations 2003 Wall Calendar" A couple of months ago, when I was on vacation, I picked up a very nice calendar at Barnes & Noble. It's called "Illuminations - A Jewish Calendar from the Bodleian Library". The publisher is Pomegranate, the price is $13.95 US / $18.95 Cdn. There are 13 different manuscript pages, ranging from approximately 1040 to 1472. Full color, a really decent size, and with full citations including country of orgin. The calendar runs from September 2002 to December 2003. I'm very glad I bought it. Ainesleah ***************************************************************************** Mistress Hermina Matilda de Ainesleah of Meredene, OL Member # 19216 HL Robin Arthur Kyrke, Esq., Forester and Sargent Member # 28653 Barony of Castel Rouge Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Jocelyn Wirth and Greg Young excalibr@gatewest.net ****************************************************************************** =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:51:15 -0800 From: "Jane/Bj Tremaine" Subject: [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. and Lady A Good morning ! As many of you know, Master Robert and Lady Agatha have lost their home to fire. The outpouring of support has been massive, although an effort such as this needs to be coordinated. Contributions and assistance are being handled by Alastar, Peg (Muirghean), and Moira. Alastar and Peg (Muirghean) are working on help for Robert, and Moira is coordinating for Agatha. You can contact them at the following: Peg (Muirghean) 619-303-9488 Alastar (cell...and only if urgent) 619-339-5761 Moira 619-303-6464 There are some SCA specific projects being started to assist them: Baroness Brianna is coordinating people to sew new garb for Robert and Agatha. Thomas and Thea are coordinating efforts to replace Agatha's lost scribal tools. You may contact these individuals if you are able tocontribute towards these efforts. Lady Agatha is a wonderful illuminator who lost all of her scrible tools. Thea can be reached at spinrldy@san.rr.ldy Much to my shock I do not have Thomas's E-mail. He reads the lists maybe he will post it. The Barony of Calafia http://www.calafia.org =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:20:21 EST From: Birdheaded@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. an... - --part1_4a.15517b0c.2b1ec065_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2002 1:52:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, vikinglord@worldnet.att.net writes: > Lady Agatha is a wonderful illuminator who lost all of her scrible tools. > > Thea can be reached at spinrldy@san.rr.ldy > Greetings: I tried to reach Thea at the above e-mail address but my mail was returned. Does someone have the correct address. Sincerely, Hildegarde Monestary of St. Gabriel - --part1_4a.15517b0c.2b1ec065_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/2002 1:52:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, vikinglord@worldnet.att.net writes:

Lady Agatha is a wonderful illuminator who lost all of her scrible tools.

Thea can be reached at spinrldy@san.rr.ldy


Greetings:

I tried to reach Thea at the above e-mail address but my mail was returned.  Does someone have the correct address.

Sincerely,

Hildegarde
Monestary of St. Gabriel - --part1_4a.15517b0c.2b1ec065_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 22:04:14 -0500 From: "Holly" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Fw: [calafia] Fwd: Info for folks wishing to help Master R. an... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B17.EA82A9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit spinrldy@san.rr.com I used to live in Calafia mysellf. *smile* :-)---Holly---<--<-@ -----Original Message----- From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On Behalf Of Birdheaded@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/2002 1:52:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, vikinglord@worldnet.att.net writes: Lady Agatha is a wonderful illuminator who lost all of her scrible tools. Thea can be reached at spinrldy@san.rr.ldy Greetings: I tried to reach Thea at the above e-mail address but my mail was returned. Does someone have the correct address. Sincerely, Hildegarde Monestary of St. Gabriel - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B17.EA82A9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
spinrldy@san.rr.com   =
 
I used to live in Calafia mysellf.=   *smile* =20

:-)---Holly---<--<-@ 

  =

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-scribes@castle.org=20 [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On Behalf Of=20 Birdheaded@aol.com

In a message dated = 12/3/2002=20 1:52:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, vikinglord@worldnet.att.net = writes:

Lady Agatha is a wonderful illuminator who lost all of = her=20 scrible tools.

Thea can be reached at=20 spinrldy@san.rr.ldy


Greetings:

I tried = to reach=20 Thea at the above e-mail address but my mail was returned.  Does = someone=20 have the correct = address.

Sincerely,

Hildegarde
Monestary of=20 St. Gabriel - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C29B17.EA82A9E0-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 00:02:53 -0800 From: "Cathleen J. Winesburg-Balogh" Subject: [scribes]: Book of kells This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C29B28.7DD6C720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings all: I'm pretty sure someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, but the last = few weeks have been a bit hellish and I can't find the answer. I recently received my CD of the book of Kells from the Trinity College = Library and on the Featured pages section I can't call up the portrait = of Christ. It gives me what ever was last. Finny thing is that when I = click on the individual page and then the close up I get it. Anyone else have this bug? Cat - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C29B28.7DD6C720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings all:
 
I'm pretty sure someone asked this = a couple of=20 weeks ago, but the last few weeks have been a bit hellish and I can't = find the=20 answer.
 
I recently received my CD of the book = of Kells from=20 the Trinity College Library and on the Featured pages section I can't = call up=20 the portrait of Christ. It gives me what ever was last. Finny thing is = that when=20 I click on the individual page and then the close up I get = it.
 
Anyone else have this bug?
 
Cat
- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C29B28.7DD6C720-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:46:50 -0600 From: "Carol O'Connell of Graphic World" Subject: [scribes]: Scribes Symposium I want to extend an invitation to you all to come join in the fun and camaraderie at this year's Scribes Symposium in Calontir. It will be held this weekend, December 7, in the Shire of Standing Stones (Columbia, MO). For those of you on the western side of the Middle, it's quite close. The event will be held on campus at Mizzou, which is conveniently located right off I-70. We have a full day of classes planned, as well as a lounge area for scribes to hang out and exchange information. There will be a wall display of C&I work, too. More information can be found at: http://www.umsl.edu/~s060851/scribal.html Hope to see you this weekend! Conna Falcon Signet =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #91 ****************************