From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #78 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, November 1 2002 Volume 08 : Number 078 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... [scribes]: new scroll pic Re: [scribes]: new scroll pic [scribes]: Nov.events in AEthelmearc [scribes]: Scribal and Heraldic Symposium, Middle Kingdom Re: [scribes]: new scroll pic Re: [scribes]: Gallery updated [scribes]: Exhibit in Belgium [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:28:29 -0600 From: gvantass@interaccess.com Subject: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... Of late, I have heard a number of scribes that I know (in person, on various lists, etc...) comment on how they would like to get their hands on a Period-ish blank book that they could use for their own copy- books, for a Book of Hours, etc... the biggest issue that I have heard is "...but I'm not a bookbinder, and I don't know anyone who is!" As I am an itinerant bookbinder, studying Medieval styles, I have to wonder: If you could design one (blank book), what would be your "perfect" book other than the obvious desire to have 120 bound leaves of vellum? format, etc... Pax, Br. conchobar mac Gabhann, Apprentice, bookbinder. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:11:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 gvantass@interaccess.com wrote: > Of late, I have heard a number of scribes that I know (in > person, on various lists, etc...) comment on how they would > like to get their hands on a Period-ish blank book that they > could use for their own copy- books, for a Book of Hours, > etc... the biggest issue that I have heard is "...but I'm > not a bookbinder, and I don't know anyone who is!" > > As I am an itinerant bookbinder, studying Medieval styles, I > have to wonder: > > If you could design one (blank book), what would be your > "perfect" book other than the obvious desire to have 120 > bound leaves of vellum? format, etc... > > Pax, > Br. conchobar mac Gabhann, Apprentice, bookbinder. Well, let's see. As a bookbinder myself, I'm kind of biased towards books sewn on supports, with quarter-sawn/split wooden boards, covered in red or brown turkey leather... For a blank book for scribes, you'll probably want at least the following: - - Needs to be able to lie mostly flat when open. That argues for styles of unsupported sewings (such as Coptic), because books with supported sewing tend to not lie as flat unless they're on the largish side. Unsupported sewings would also tend to be more in line with the price ranges that most people can afford for a blank book. - - Probably at least 6 x 9 -- that's a little small for actually duplicating our work for full scrolls, but it's reasonable for doing a model book with samples of texts, illuminations, etc. - - If you're doing an unsupported sewing, I recommend sewn headbands -- they will really stabilize the text block. I know that this will drive the price up for the extra work, but it's work it. - - A leather covering is nice, but a chemise might be more affordable. Consider offering both. I'll give you some more ideas as I have opportunity. Regards, Lyle FitzWilliam Bergental, East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Haselbauer Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... It seems to me a more period process is to draw on seperate sheets and bind them after the fact. My notes on period sketchbooks is here: http://www.geocities.com/mary_m_haselbauer/drawing.html It must be a different verision of the handout that has a quote from Cennini describing the loose leaf folder for sketches. Slaine __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... - --- gvantass@interaccess.com wrote: > Of late, I have heard a number of scribes that I know (in person, on > various lists, etc...) comment on how they would like to get their > hands on a Period-ish blank book that they could use for their own copy- > books, for a Book of Hours, etc... the biggest issue that I have heard > is "...but I'm not a bookbinder, and I don't know anyone who is!" > Br. conchobar mac Gabhann, Apprentice, bookbinder. In the event anyone else is seeking bookbinding information, there is an SCA bookbinders Yahoo group. Search yahoo groups for SCA-BINDERS. Once on the group you can register yourself as a member, and received regular e-mails. Cheers, Hillary __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:19:35 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... I'm probably going to be repeating other's suggestions, but here goes. I would like: The ability to take it apart to work on the pages separately, or something like that. Maybe included in the cost (you are planning on selling these, yes?) would be shipping it back to you for a final binding (or is this to scary--taking a chance on the work getting damaged?) If that's not possible, something that stays pretty flat when its opened, and with plenty of space near the binding, so one needn't struggle trying to work near the "valley" Maybe add an inch or so to whatever standard width you're working with. Offer a few sizes, maybe even a real tiny one--I always wanted to do one of those one inch square books. :) A cover that will protect all sides from encroaching moisture. I can think of many little bells and whistles that might be options, for example, a place to store a pencil, for those who might use it just for sketching, a way to attach it to a belt, something to personalize it, like a name plaque or something....etc. Definely acid free paper that won't show ink and paint through to the other side too heinously. That's all I can think of right now. Chiara da Ravenna, Stonemarche, EK (NH) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:33:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Hillary Greenslade wrote: > In the event anyone else is seeking bookbinding information, > there is an SCA bookbinders Yahoo group. Search yahoo groups > for SCA-BINDERS. Once on the group you can register yourself > as a member, and received regular e-mails. Now, _there_ is a list with low traffic... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:45:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes who want books... > I'm probably going to be repeating other's suggestions, but here goes. > I would like: > > The ability to take it apart to work on the pages separately, > or something like that. Maybe included in the cost (you are > planning on selling these, yes?) would be shipping it back to > you for a final binding (or is this to scary--taking a chance > on the work getting damaged?) Well, that would be interesting, and corresponds to late period bookbinding (go to the printer for the text block, take the text block to the binder...) > If that's not possible, something that stays pretty flat when > its opened, and with plenty of space near the binding, so one > needn't struggle trying to work near the "valley" Maybe add > an inch or so to whatever standard width you're working with. That's called a 'gutter' -- look at some of the sample pages in various books on medieval illumination, and you can tell which side of the page was next to the gutter (narrow illumination) and which was near the fore edge (wider illumination). > Offer a few sizes, maybe even a real tiny one--I always > wanted to do one of those one inch square books. :) For that, I would definitely recommend that you do the pages before they're bound... > A cover that will protect all sides from encroaching moisture. I don't believe that you'll find "clamshell" bindings to be period, but I've been surprised before. ;-) For this, I would suggest a book carrier -- a leather "box" that the book slips into, with a flap or a separate lid that slides along cords or things to close the top of the carrier. > I can think of many little bells and whistles that might be > options, for example, a place to store a pencil For a modern interpretation, a loop of leather to slip the pencil through -- perhaps two or three, and the pencil can then be used to hold the book closed. Another I've seen is to carve a slot in the inside of one of the book boards to put the pencil into. > for those who might use it just for sketching, a way to > attach it to a belt, Can be done in a "girdle book" fashion, by elongating the leather cover and tying it into a knot to slip under the belt, or by using a book carrier as noted above. > something to personalize it, like a name plaque or > something....etc. You can either do that by tooling it directly into the leather, or by making a separate plaque as you note, or by having an _Ex libris_ entry inside the book (usually inside the _back_ cover). > Definely acid free paper that won't show ink and paint through > to the other side too heinously. This is probably the largest issue (both literally and figuratively). The better acid free paper that doesn't show through tends to be on the thick side, which will increase the thickness of your book dramatically. Vellum pages often _did_ show the text through to the other side, but not too "heinously". ;-) Another consideration: Try to plan your writing and your illumination so that the verso is always writing and the recto is always illumination, or vice versa. Or, plan so that the writing on one side simply doesn't match up to a blank section on the other side (using filler blocks, for example). Regards, Lyle FitzWilliam Bergental, East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:11:24 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: [scribes]: new scroll pic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0609_01C27EDF.B790C480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to Arianna for sending me this pic of a scroll I=20 did! www.picturetrail.com/pinnacleproductions Look under "Scrolls" for "Johan's Pelican" This one took me an unconscionably long time to finish. (somthing like seven years) Usually I'm much faster, really. :) Sorry I can't make the images any larger. Eventually I'll=20 actually get my own web site! Chiara da Ravenna Barony of Stonemarche, EK (NH) - ------=_NextPart_000_0609_01C27EDF.B790C480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to Arianna for sending me this = pic of a=20 scroll I
did!
 
www.picturetrail= .com/pinnacleproductions
 
Look under "Scrolls" for "Johan's=20 Pelican"
 
This one took me an unconscionably long = time to=20 finish.
(somthing like seven years) Usually I'm = much=20 faster, really. :)
 
Sorry I can't make the images any = larger.=20 Eventually I'll
actually get my own web = site!
 
Chiara da Ravenna
Barony of = Stonemarche, EK=20 (NH)
- ------=_NextPart_000_0609_01C27EDF.B790C480-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:19:45 EST From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: new scroll pic - --part1_16c.164b81b1.2aefe4f1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beautiful work! Thanks for sharing. How did you get such nice black lines on the gold leaf? Brandy >>> In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:13:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, kara_westfall@hotmail.com writes: > Thanks to Arianna for sending me this pic of a scroll I > did! > > www.picturetrail.com/pinnacleproductions > > Look under "Scrolls" for "Johan's Pelican" > > This one took me an unconscionably long time to finish. > (somthing like seven years) Usually I'm much faster, really. :) > > Sorry I can't make the images any larger. Eventually I'll > actually get my own web site! > > Chiara da Ravenna > Barony of Stonemarche, EK (NH) > > - --part1_16c.164b81b1.2aefe4f1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beautiful work! Thanks for sharing.

How did you get such nice black lines on the gold leaf?

Brandy
>>>
In a message dated 10/29/2002 12:13:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, kara_westfall@hotmail.com writes:

Thanks to Arianna for sending me this pic of a scroll I
did!

www.picturetrail.com/pinnacleproductions

Look under "Scrolls" for "Johan's Pelican"

This one took me an unconscionably long time to finish.
(somthing like seven years) Usually I'm much faster, really. :)

Sorry I can't make the images any larger. Eventually I'll
actually get my own web site!

Chiara da Ravenna
Barony of Stonemarche, EK (NH)

- --part1_16c.164b81b1.2aefe4f1_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:35:26 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Nov.events in AEthelmearc - --part1_b8.30231106.2aeff6ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who live nearby or those who may be traveling to AEthelmearc in the near future, there are 2 excellent events scheduled to take place in November - - AEthelmearc Academy and Heralds & Scribes Collegium AEthelmearc Academy is November 16 in the Shire of Hartstone (Canisteo, NY) General info on the event is available at http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/fall02/flyer.shtml Class listings are available here http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/fall02/fall02classes.php Heralds and Scribes is November 23 in the Shire of Nithgaard.(Lamar, PA) More info on the event is available at http://www.aethelmearc.org/new_events.htm If you are interested in teaching please contact: Mistress Cori psimonds@facilities.buffalo.edu AND Lord Gilles herald@pcspower.net (please send to both addresses). The class schedule will be posted as soon as possible. I hope some of you can make it to one or both of these events. They are traditionally excellent opportunities to learn and share knowledge with others. In reverence of chivalry and honor, I remain ... Maitresse Yvianne de Castel d'Avignon AEthelmearc Victory or defeat lies in God's Hands.... Over honor, we ourselves, are lord and Master. - --part1_b8.30231106.2aeff6ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who live nearby or those who may be traveling to AEthelmearc in the near future, there are 2 excellent events scheduled to take place in November - AEthelmearc Academy and Heralds & Scribes Collegium

AEthelmearc Academy is November 16 in the Shire of Hartstone (Canisteo, NY)
General info on the event is available at
http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/fall02/flyer.shtml
Class listings are available here
http://www.valgardr.net/~aecademy/fall02/fall02classes.php


Heralds and Scribes is November 23 in the Shire of Nithgaard.(Lamar, PA)
More info on the event is available at
http://www.aethelmearc.org/new_events.htm
If you are interested in teaching please contact:
Mistress Cori     psimonds@facilities.buffalo.edu
AND Lord Gilles    herald@pcspower.net
(please send to both addresses).
The class schedule will be posted as soon as possible.

I hope some of you can make it to one or both of these events. They are traditionally excellent opportunities to learn and share knowledge with others.

In reverence of chivalry and honor,
I remain ...

Maitresse Yvianne de Castel d'Avignon
AEthelmearc
Victory or defeat lies in God's Hands.... Over honor, we ourselves, are lord and Master.
 - --part1_b8.30231106.2aeff6ae_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:57:38 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: Scribal and Heraldic Symposium, Middle Kingdom Hosted by the Barony of Flaming Gryphon, this Saturday, November 2 on the campus of the University of Dayton: the Middle Kingdom Heraldic and Scribal Symposium. Site fee is only $4 for adults and $2 for kids, this includes a dessert revel. There will be a scribal workroom, heraldic bingo will be played and there will be a library of resources for you to drool...er, I mean, look through. The class list is long and the teachers names prestigious! If you have any interest in heraldry or scribal arts, beginner or advanced, you should attend this event! http://www.hawkeskeye.org/mkhs.html Apologies for cross postings, Smiles, Despina de la scriby stuff, yeah! =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:50:26 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: new scroll pic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01C27F9D.925B3880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How did you get such nice black lines on the gold leaf?=20 Brandy=20 I used waterproof ink in a technical pen. Most of the gold is flat gilding on gum ammoniac, so it wasn't too hard to get the ink to stick, the pen nib kinda scratched right through the gold. I can't remember exactly what brand of ink, most likely either Calli or=20 Ziller. Maybe Black Magic. Those are the only kinds I've used that are waterproof. (Other than oak gall, and I know it wasn't that that I used) Thanks to everyone for the lovely compliments! If I ever need my ego stroked (again) I know what to do! Chiara - ------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01C27F9D.925B3880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How did you get such nice black lines on the gold leaf? =

Brandy=20
I used waterproof ink in a technical pen. Most of the gold is = flat
gilding on gum ammoniac, so it wasn't too hard to get the ink
to stick, the pen nib kinda scratched right through the gold. I = can't
remember exactly what brand of ink, most likely either Calli or =
Ziller. Maybe Black Magic. Those are the only kinds I've used = that
are waterproof. (Other than oak gall, and I know it wasn't that = that=20 I
used)
 
Thanks to everyone for the lovely compliments! If I ever need = my
ego stroked (again) I know what to do!
 
Chiara
 - ------=_NextPart_000_06AA_01C27F9D.925B3880-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:10:58 +1100 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gallery updated hi The server is back on line as ever Thorfinn > >hi > > > >I have updated my gallery of competition entries at > >http://www.corplink.com.au/~roylance/show.htm > > > >The competition this year was of a very high > >standard. > > > >as ever > > > >Thorfinn > >Stormhold, Lochac > >Melbourne, Australia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Anna Troy Subject: [scribes]: Exhibit in Belgium If anyone's going to Belgium you probably want to check this out :-)The catalog costs 64 euros SIGH! http://mm.leuven.be/ http://mm.leuven.be/engels/enter.htm Anna de Byxe ===== "So many books, so little time." "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:00:01 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing This is the monthly mailing of the administrivia information for the scribes mailing list. [Last updated on: Thu Jul 8 21:26:10 PDT 1999] This is the scribes mailing list. It is open for discussion of scribal arts including illumination, calligraphy, paper making, etc. The posting address for scribes is "scribes@castle.org". To unsubscribe, send email to "majordomo@castle.org" with "unsubscribe scribes" in the body of the message. If you want to receive a digest version of this list, unsubscribe from scribes (see the instructions, above) and subscribe to scribes-digest instead. Problems and questions should be addressed to "scribes-owner@castle.org" as the list maintainer may or may not actually read the scribes mailing list. This mailing list is not an official list of the Society for Creative Anachronism, any College of Scribes, or the Barony of Calafia. No spam is allowed on this list. Spammers will be deleted without warning. TECHNICAL NOTE: This mailing list is set up to retain the original author's email address in the From: line. Most email programs will reply directly to the author unless you select the equivalent of "reply to all". This is done to reduce the likelihood of the embarrassing "me too" that happens all too often on mailing lists these days. There are other SCA-related mailing lists hosted @castle.org. scribes@castle.org antir_apprentices@castle.org antir_scribes@castle.org cal_cooking@castle.org caid_scribes@castle.org caid_heralds@castle.org caid_bluefeather@castle.org tanwayour@castle.org You can subscribe to them the same way you subscribed to this list. If you get this far in this message, there are two requests the list maintainer would make: 1. Please send a note of introduction to the scribes list. Say who you are, where you are, and what your scribal interests are. and 2. Please sign your notes to this list with your society name and branch, along with your mundane name and location. Enjoy! Your list maintainer is: Lord Christopher Thomas mka Lee Damon Madrone, An Tir Seattle, WA =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #78 ****************************