From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #72 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, October 16 2002 Volume 08 : Number 072 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: translation web site Re: [scribes]: translation web site Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin Re: [scribes]: Re: stretching parchment [scribes]: Latin assistance needed... Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin [scribes]: parchment making [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose [scribes]: lord's prayer Re: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose Re: [scribes]: Latin assistance needed... Re: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose Re: [scribes]: Re: stretching parchment Re: [scribes]: lord's prayer [scribes]: [Fwd: Fwd: [Mid] Ohio - Exhibition Announcement] (fwd) [scribes]: making vellum ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:02:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahee Subject: [scribes]: translation web site What is the address for our translation web site? thank you. your servant, mahee __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: translation web site If you mean http://translate.thibault.org/, it's been down for over a year now. More correctly, the page is there (try this link: http://translate.thibault.org/user.php3), but the database is broken. A new job, a move to a different state, and having twins tends to have adverse affects on website updating. :/ I'm sure if you post the language you need translated to the list, you'll get a few volunteers. Márti - --- Mahee wrote: > What is the address for our translation web site? > > thank you. > > your servant, > mahee __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:40:12 -0500 From: "Pafra & Scott Catledge" Subject: Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin Well over 90% of all extant mss with the gospel of Matthew do not omit the ending. Only the Alexandrine text and its proponents (Griesbach, Lachmann, Tischendorf, Tregelles, Alford, Wordsworth and their disciples) omit the last sentence. > I've seen a reference that says that says that that ending ("for > thine is the kingdom...") was added to Matthew 6:9-13 at a much > later date. It isn't in my copy. > > > ============================================================ ======= > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:00:06 -0500 From: "Pafra & Scott Catledge" Subject: Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin Which Greek texts substitute 'kai' (and) for 'alla' (but) in Mark VI:13? Most Modernists do not seem to believe in the existence of "The Evil One." The study of textual criticism would lead me to the conclusion that the Minority Text (the Alexandrine) omitted a half verse than that the Majority Text added it. If you want a real laugh, find one of the old Westcott & Hort Greek New Testaments that have their full foreword and explanation--not the highly censored few pages that are normally printed today. Colm Dubh - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin > Another reason for the mulitple endings..... Smiles, Despina > > Lastly may be noted the generally received opinion that the rendering of > the last clause should be "deliver us from the evil one", a change which > justifies the use of "but" in stead of "and" and practically converts the > two last clauses into one and the same petition. The doxology "for Thine is > the Kingdom", etc., which appears in the Greek textus receptus and has been > adopted in the later editions of the "Book of Common Prayer", is > undoubtedly an interpolation. > > ============================================================ ======= > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:12:22 -0500 From: "Pafra & Scott Catledge" Subject: Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin > > quia tuum est regnum, potentia et gloria in secula. > > which I believe comes from the Revelation to John... And from the Greek for Matthew VI:13b Hoti sou istin 'he basilea kai he dunamis kai he doxa eis tous aionas For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory unto the ages (i.e., forever) Colm Dubh =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:32:08 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: stretching parchment At 12:34 PM 10/15/2002 -0400, Randy Asplund wrote: >Why? Because medieval book parchment was thin and very susceptible to >cockling by direct application of excessive moisture. Hey, I know some >of you have bought parchment from modern suppliers, and that it was >probably pretty thick and could stand some serious water on it, but that >is not the same thing. If you look at real medieval leaves you will see >they are usually very thin like paper. Very true. The piece that I did a short time ago was on the nicest vellum I have ever had the pleasure to work with; it was very thin and wonderful. Had I done washes on it, it would have cockled and been ruined very quickly. Smaller strokes and no large swaths of color were used on the piece. How am I so sure that the piece would have been ruined with large washes or bigger brush strokes? Someone spilt water on it shortly after it had been presented and brought back behind the thrones for safe keeping. Where the water didn't hit is a lovely white, where the water did hit, it's splotchy. It also had some *major* pull and wrinkling from the water - cockling. I'm working on fixing it - slowly. I am getting the cockling to come out fairly well (better than I had thought possible, for the extent of damage it had) but I am unsure that I will be able to return the splotchy areas to the lovely white of the rest of the piece. However, I'm beginning to think they add character and so I might not be so disappointed if I can't remove them completely. Luckily, the recipient of the piece is happy with it so long as I can get it to my standards. If I can't get it back to standards that I'm okay with, she's willing to buy more parchment - though I don't think that will be necessary, as I still have half the skin. Moral: Water + Vellum = BAD Smiles, Despina - ---------- If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:19:30 -0400 From: Lisa Kuney Subject: [scribes]: Latin assistance needed... I am trying to translate a motto into Latin for a scribal piece, and the words are relatively easy...it's making sure that the grammar is correct which impedes me! Can anyone assist me? Thanks in advance... Halima al-Shafi'i Stronghold of Raven's Cove =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:15:27 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: "Lord's Prayer" in Latin > >Yes, but neither of these includes this passage: > > > > > quia tuum est regnum, potentia et gloria in secula. > Gives pretty good explanations for a number of endings to the > prayer. Mostly, it's a sect thing, if I understand correctly. Well, I was raised in an Irish Catholic household and grew up in an Italian/Polish parish, first learned to pray my rosary in Latin and learned the Latin liturgy of the Mass as a small child (pre-Vatican II Catholic!). When we learned the "Pater Noster" in Catholic school, we did not add the "quia tuum est regnum........" ending. Maybe it was just my particular parish, or Italian/Polish Catholicism, or whatever, but it wasn't until I transferred to public school in 4th grade, where we started out each day with the Pledge of Allegiance and the Lord's Prayer, with the "..for thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory, forever and ever, Amen" ending. I remember coming home from school a bit dismayed and perplexed and asking my mom if I was doing something "Protestant" (which, way back in those days, if you were Catholic, was, well, let's just say it wasn't looked on terribly favourably!). Heck, I still miss the old Latin liturgy. Thank goodness I can still read it a little bit, because it means I can at least sort of read Manuscripts.........that is, if I can understand the paleography in them! That's the tough part. ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:18:50 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: parchment making - --part1_195.f0a26be.2addee4a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When Aengus took the hide to Pennsic it was ready to be stretched and scraped. I know I've heard him use the term "scudding". I'm a visual thinker, so unless I read it myself in the research (which admittedly I've done none myself on this art) or he would lay a card on the table with "scudding" written on it while I was doing it, I'd have trouble remembering exactly what it is and where it comes into the process. There were 3 times I scraped the deer hide. The first time removed the bits of meat and fat that the butcher left behind (for this I used a sharp knife and had the skin laying across a slightly rounded piece of wood). The second (several weeks later) removed any remaining fat and the hair (most of the hair came out just by running my hand over it. I used a dull blade on a flat surface and worked both sides of the hide). The third scraping was done several weeks after the previous one, as soon as the hide was under tension. It did push out a lot of the moisture that was in the hide but beyond that it also removed flesh .... which left me with a fairly smooth - medium to thin sheet of vellum after it dried. The thickness wasn't as consistent as I would have liked, but for my first attempt I was pretty thrilled. :-) From what I've heard sheep is very greasy. I've only done deer from beginning to end without assistance and helped with kid .... both have turned out well. Grease wasn't a problem except around the edges (where you can't scrape because of the tensioning ropes) and tail of the kid. For those who took the Pennsic class - Aengus cut the tail off his latest piece of kid before scraping to cut down on the greasiness around it. It did help quite a bit, but I sort of missed the extra entertainment ;-) Yvianne AEthelmearc - --part1_195.f0a26be.2addee4a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When Aengus took the hide to Pennsic it was ready to be stretched and scraped. I know I've heard him use the term "scudding". I'm a visual thinker, so unless I read it myself in the research (which admittedly I've done none myself on this art) or he would lay a card on the table with "scudding" written on it while I was doing it, I'd have trouble remembering exactly what it is and where it comes into the process.

There were 3 times I scraped the deer hide. The first time removed the bits of meat and fat that the butcher left behind (for this I used a sharp knife and had the skin laying across a slightly rounded piece of wood). The second (several weeks later) removed any remaining fat and the hair (most of the hair came out just by running my hand over it. I used a dull blade on a flat surface and worked both sides of the hide). The third scraping was done several weeks after the previous one, as soon as the hide was under tension. It did push out a lot of the moisture that was in the hide but beyond that it also removed flesh  .... which left me with a fairly smooth -  medium to thin sheet of vellum after it dried. The thickness wasn't as consistent as I would have liked, but for my first attempt I was pretty thrilled. :-)

From what I've heard sheep is very greasy. I've only done deer from beginning to end without assistance and helped with kid .... both have turned out well. Grease wasn't a problem except around the edges (where you can't scrape because of the tensioning ropes) and tail of the kid.

For those who took the Pennsic class - Aengus cut the tail off his latest piece of kid before scraping to cut down on the greasiness around it. It did help quite a bit, but I sort of missed the extra entertainment  ;-)

Yvianne
AEthelmearc - --part1_195.f0a26be.2addee4a_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:31:36 -0500 From: "D & L Potucek" Subject: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose Hello all, Does Medb of Twin Rose roam these halls? I received my AoA last weekend and it was done by him / her so I wanted to thank him. It is a nice simple piece that I am happy to have received and I have it gracing my walls. Thanks Medb, Langry Bouclés d'Cheveux =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:20:20 -0500 From: "Melaena" Subject: [scribes]: lord's prayer Thank you all who responded so quickly with help! I will be turning out a Lord's Prayer soon, meant to look like part of a Book of Hours. Margareta vanden Velde Montengarde, Avacal Gules, three sparks inverted and a bordure engrailed Or. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:42:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose Her, actually. She's the new Principality Signet for Northshield. Her email should be on the officer's page on the Northshield web site. Margaret FitzWilliam Northshield > Hello all, > > Does Medb of Twin Rose roam these halls? I received my AoA last weekend and > it was done by him / her so I wanted to thank him. It is a nice simple > piece that I am happy to have received and I have it gracing my walls. > > Thanks Medb, > > Langry Bouclés d'Cheveux > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:52:14 -0500 From: "Pafra & Scott Catledge" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Latin assistance needed... What is the motto; I can give it a shot. Colm Dubh scplc@i-55.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa Kuney" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:19 AM Subject: [scribes]: Latin assistance needed... > I am trying to translate a motto into Latin for a scribal piece, and the > words are relatively easy...it's making sure that the grammar is correct > which impedes me! Can anyone assist me? Thanks in advance... > > Halima al-Shafi'i > Stronghold of Raven's Cove > > > ============================================================ ======= > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:25:49 -0500 From: "D & L Potucek" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose Thank you much, I shall look up her email and send her a thank you. Langry - ----- Original Message ----- From: Pixel, Goddess and Queen Cc: scribes Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medb of Twin Rose > > Her, actually. She's the new Principality Signet for Northshield. Her > email should be on the officer's page on the Northshield web site. > > Margaret FitzWilliam > Northshield > > > Hello all, > > > > Does Medb of Twin Rose roam these halls? I received my AoA last weekend and > > it was done by him / her so I wanted to thank him. It is a nice simple > > piece that I am happy to have received and I have it gracing my walls. > > > > Thanks Medb, > > > > Langry Bouclés d'Cheveux > > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:15:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: stretching parchment For those who are interested, here is the disposition of my Pennsic disaster scroll (you remember, cat spiiled water on it when it was almost done; it was a pelican scroll for Connor Bowsplitter on vellum, best gold leaf I'd ever achieved, etc.): Connor had always wanted to try fletching his crossbow bolts with a manuscript page, and I couldn't face dealing with that piece in less than two weeks when the scroll was due, so I re-did it on hot-press, it was presented in court (I got it back to finish the diapering afterwards), and I presented him with the ruined piece later. He was very pleased with it. Graidhne On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil wrote: > > Moral: Water + Vellum = BAD > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:23:17 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: lord's prayer Melaena wrote: > > I will be turning out a Lord's Prayer soon, meant to look like part of a > Book of Hours. I did a Lord's Prayer made to look like part of a Book of Hours: http://www.dm.net/~karen/sca/scribes/klingon.html I gotta warn you, though: it's in Klingon. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:02:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: [scribes]: [Fwd: Fwd: [Mid] Ohio - Exhibition Announcement] (fwd) An exhibit of interest in Ohio... Graidhne - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Fwd: [Mid] Ohio - Exhibition Announcement Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:46:11 -0400 From: "Samantha M. Pendleton" Reply-To: Discussions of SCA Heraldry To: SCAHRLDS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Thought this might be of some interest. - --Katerin >From: Norma Jean Storms >To: Middle Bridge >CC: alderford , apprentice@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Mid] Ohio - Exhibition Announcement >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:17:05 -0400 (EDT) > >Subject: Exhibition Announcement > >Oberlin College is pleased to announce: "Pages from the Past: An >Exhibition of Medieval and Renaissance Books." From October 7 to > November 8 the Oberlin College Library will host a major exhibition of > medieval and renaissance illuminated books drawn from the collections > of John M. Lawrence and Oberlin College. Mr. Lawrence, of Wooster, > Ohio, has had a life-long engagement with medieval manuscripts and > early printed books. He has generously lent the majority of items in > the exhibition. >The exhibition will be housed on the main level of Mudd Center on the > Oberlin College Campus. It will feature over approximately 80 >individual leaves and complete books that are broadly representative of > European manuscript production and early hand-colored printing, >including examples of illuminated Bibles, private devotional >manuscripts like psalters and books of hours, and books used in church > during mass (antiphonals, graduals, and missals). >"The Lawrence Collection's breadth is particularly remarkable," said > Erik Inglis, assistant professor of art. "It spans virtually all of > Europe, with fine examples from England, France, the Low Countries, > Germany and Italy, ranging in date from the 12th to 16th centuries. > The collection thus provides an excellent overview of book production >and decoration from the High Middle Ages into the Renaissance. > Additionally, Mr. Lawrence's interest in both manuscripts and early >printed books makes his collection especially revealing about the > transition from script to type, a watershed in western history." >Please pass this announcement along to anyone you think might have an > interest. > >Ciao, >Francesca > >P.S. My apologies for any cross postings you may have received. >From: Norma Jean Storms >+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ to unsubscribe, send a message > to `~-, ,-~`~-, ,-~`~-, ,-~`~-, ,-~` majordomo@midrealm.org with . > | | | | | | | | 'unsubscribe sca-middle' as its > body. Katerin ferch Gwenllian of the House of the Three Roses m.k.a. Samantha M. Pendleton "Reality is for people who lack imagination." _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:00:44 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: making vellum - --part1_a3.3031da76.2adf034c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am forwarding this missive to the list for Aengus.=20 Please send any responses to him at=20 Aengus1@aol.com ******************************************************* >speaking of parchments, has anyone had any experience *making* parchment? >any pointers to resources etc? >Just something I would like to have a go at sometime in the future. I have been making vellum for a little while now. I am including in=20 this email an overview of the process I use to make vellum. I also teach the= =20 process hands-on. I recommend the hands-on approach highly if you have an=20 interest and are in my area. If you have any questions, contact me privately as I am not subscribed to=20 this list.=20 Regards,=20 Aengus MacBain Vellum Making 101 An overview Remember that you are dealing with a product that was an animal's organ.=20 Since each animal is unique, so is its skin. No two hides will be exactly=20 alike. This may change the way we perform the process. Be adaptable and open= =20 to change and experimentation. Lastly, have fun!! If you are not having fun=20 doing it, why are you doing it in the first place?=20 Below are the standard steps required to make vellum; 1-Soaking 2-Fleshing 3-Lime bath 4-Rinse 5-Dehair 6-2nd Lime bath 7-2nd Rinse 8-Streching 9-Scraping 10-Drying 11-Finishing The steps will vary somewhat from recipe to recipe, but I have found this to= =20 works well for me! Okay, I am going to assume you are starting with a freshly flayed skin. Plac= e=20 the hide in a container of water overnight to soak. The next day remove it=20 form the container and place it under running water till the water runs=20 clean. Now move on to step two. Fleshing the skin is a step that I consider to be vital. Fleshing is the=20 process whereby all the extra fat and muscle tissue on the flesh side of the= =20 hide is removed by means of a fleshing knife and beam. The hide is placed=20 over the beam hair side down. The fleshing knife (which resembles a=20 drawknife) is worked down the flesh side slowly removing the fat and other=20 matter from the dermis of the hide. This step serves two purposes, to reduce= =20 the amount of foreign matter on the hide that can lead to contamination and=20 it increases the surface area of the skin that the lime has direct exposure=20 exposed to. An added benefit is that this scraping also reduces the grease=20 content of the hide. Prepare your lime bath by adding 4 cups of Hydrated Lime to 5 gallons of=20 water. Fold your hide flesh sides together and place it in the liquid. Stir=20 this with a rod 3 times daily for 8 days in the summer up to 16 days in the=20 winter. When you notice the hairs starting to come off as you stir, remove=20 the hide from the bath and proceed to step 3. Rinse your hide under running water till all traces of the lime are gone fro= m=20 the hair side of the hide. When you are satisfied the lime has been rinsed=20 away, dehair the hide. If you have a fleshing tool, use the backside (the=20 dull side) of the blade to dehair the hide. If you don't have a fleshing=20 knife, any dull blade will work. If you don't have any dull knives sitting=20 around, just use your hands! Work by sliding against the grain of the hair.=20 Go slowly and make sure to remove all the hairs, even the teeny weenie littl= e=20 ones! When you have removed all the hair, make up another lime bath identical to=20 the one you made earlier and place the hide in it. Stir this twice a day for= =20 8 days. After the 8th day, take the hide out and rinse it again until the=20 water runs very clear. Now the hide is ready for stretching. To stretch the hide, you need a frame. The frame I use is 4' X 5' and made=20 out of 2" X 4" lumber. I use a mortise and tennon joint to join the pieces=20 together with the tennons being on the short pieces and the mortises the=20 longer ones. I drilled =BD" holes through the frame at roughly 6" intervals=20= for=20 my tensioning pegs. If you don't have tensioning pegs (like me till recently= =20 ;-) you can just thread your ropes through the holes and tie them off by=20 hand. Granted, this is harder and will cause blisters, but it is better than= =20 nothing! Now you must attach the hide to the frame.=20 There are two methods for doing this. One involves piercing the hide with=20 short stout sticks and tying the rope around the stick to the frame. The=20 other involves the use of river rocks about the size of your pinky nail. The= =20 rocks are pressed into the hide about 1-2 inches from the edge of the flesh=20 side till they are fully enveloped by hide and sticking out from the grain=20 side. Take a length of rope in you hand and double it. Hold the loop at the=20 end and fold it back. Pull the two ends of the rope through the loop. This=20 will form a slipknot. Place the slipknot around both the hide and the rock=20 from the grain side. Sometime this is a lot more difficult than it seems.=20 Keep trying, eventually it will come. Once you have attached all your ropes=20 to the rocks and cinched them down so the slipknots are firmly gripping both= =20 the hide and the rocks, you can tie them to the pegs or the frame itself.=20 I recommend you use sisal or jute twine for tying you hide. I use what is=20 labeled 'Heavy Sisal'. You want to avoid nylon ropes as they tend to stretch= =20 and mess with you tension. If tying them by hand, tie them as tightly as you possibly can! Drying under= =20 tension is what separates vellum from leather. Without proper tension, you=20 will have limited success making vellum. Once tied, to add a bit more tensio= n=20 put small pieces of wire (I used cheap tent pegs - Thanks Dear!)between the=20 pieces of rope and twist them slowly. This will tighten your strings but als= o=20 cause them to be under more stress and they may break more easily. If you=20 form the wire into an 'L' shape, you can hook them around adjacent strings=20 and secure them from unwinding (once again - Thanks Dear!).=20 I should mention at this point that the hide should be kept wet for the=20 remainder of the processing. It will be worked dry at a later stage, but for= =20 scraping you want it to stay reasonably wet. Now it is time to scrape. If you happen to have a semi lunar knife sitting=20 around, send it to me and use an old butcher knife like I currently am ;-).=20 Begin scraping on the flesh side of the hide. If you fleshed the hide either= =20 before processing or after dehairing, this will be much easier. If not, it's= =20 okay; this step will just take much longer. Using a very sharp rounded blade= =20 is best. Work in one direction as much as possible, I work from head to tail= .=20 I may work small areas in another direction to remove stubborn fat or tissue= ,=20 but I always revert to the up and down scraping. Don't be afraid to put some= =20 elbow grease into it. This is not easy work and you have to really get in=20 there and press to get this material to come off the dermis. Be careful not=20 to go too hard too fast though or you could go through the skin. You will=20 learn as you work the hide the proper force to use. Once you have removed all the extraneous fat and muscle from the flesh side=20 of the hide, flip it around and scrape the grain side. This side is much=20 easier to scrape as it does not have all the extra material that the flesh=20 side did. Use a sharp knife and scrape until you are satisfied with the grai= n=20 surface. When you are done scraping set the frame aside, out of the sun for one day t= o=20 dry. At the end of the day, check your hide. If you feel it needs it, sprink le the hide with water and remove all the damp flesh with pumice. This will=20 level the surface of the hide and raise a nap on the surface of the hide tha= t=20 some people find desirable (I'm not one of those people). This can also be=20 done while the hide is dry by rubbing the surface of the hide with sandpaper= =20 (a modern equivalent to glass paper).=20 Now is also the time to put any whiteners onto the surface of the hide. I=20 have had good luck with slaked plaster myself. There are references to lime=20 powder being used, but in my experience it tends to cause streaks on the=20 surface of the hide. Once you have finished with the surface preparation, set the hide aside=20 overnight to ensure it has dried completely. Once you are satisfied the hide= =20 is dry, cut it from the frame and enjoy the fruits of your handiwork. I must take a moment here to share a few words of advice. I researched this=20 topic for a full year before I even thought about starting a hide. With all=20 the books I had read, all the notes taken, everything coming together I had=20 no real idea what I was doing when I started processing my first hide. No=20 handout in the world can take the place of hands on experience! Hopefully,=20 the information contained herein has piqued your interest in this process=20 enough to start doing research on your own. There is information out there,=20 but it can be hard to come by. Look for anything by the author Ronald Reed.=20 His book entitled 'Ancient skins, Leathers and Parchments' is required=20 reading as far as I'm concerned.=20 Be well! THL Aengus MacBain AEthelmearc David Hassinger=20 Butler PA - --part1_a3.3031da76.2adf034c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am forwarding this missive to the list for Aengus.

Please send any responses to him at
Aengus1@aol.com

*******************************************************

>speaking of parchments, has anyone had any experience *making* parchment= ?
>any pointers to resources etc?
>Just something I would like to have a go at sometime in the future.

       I have been making vellum for a little=20= while now. I am including in this email an overview of the process I use to=20= make vellum. I also teach the process hands-on. I recommend the hands-on app= roach highly if you have an interest and are in my area.

If you have any questions, contact me privately as I am not subscribed to th= is list.


Regards,
Aengus MacBain


Vellum=20= Making 101
An overview



Remember that you are dealing with a product that was an animal's organ. Sin= ce each animal is unique, so is its skin. No two hides will be exactly alike= . This may change the way we perform the process. Be adaptable and open to c= hange and experimentation. Lastly, have fun!! If you are not having fun doin= g it, why are you doing it in the first place?
Below are the standard steps required to make vellum;

1-Soaking
2-Fleshing
3-Lime bath
4-Rinse
5-Dehair
6-2nd Lime bath
7-2nd Rinse
8-Streching
9-Scraping
10-Drying
11-Finishing

The steps will vary somewhat from recipe to recipe, but I have found this to= works well for me!

Okay, I am going to assume you are starting with a freshly flayed skin. Plac= e the hide in a container of water overnight to soak. The next day remove it= form the container and place it under running water till the water runs cle= an. Now move on to step two.

Fleshing the skin is a step that I consider to be vital. Fleshing is the pro= cess whereby all the extra fat and muscle tissue on the flesh side of the hi= de is removed by means of a fleshing knife and beam. The hide is placed over= the beam hair side down. The fleshing knife (which resembles a drawknife) i= s worked down the flesh side slowly removing the fat and other matter from t= he dermis of the hide. This step serves two purposes, to reduce the amount o= f foreign matter on the hide that can lead to contamination and it increases= the surface area of the skin that the lime has direct exposure exposed to.=20= An added benefit is that this scraping also reduces the grease content of th= e hide.

Prepare your lime bath by adding 4 cups of Hydrated Lime to 5 gallons of wat= er. Fold your hide flesh sides together and place it in the liquid. Stir thi= s with a rod 3 times daily for 8 days in the summer up to 16 days in the win= ter. When you notice the hairs starting to come off as you stir, remove the=20= hide from the bath and proceed to step 3.

Rinse your hide under running water till all traces of the lime are gone fro= m the hair side of the hide. When you are satisfied the lime has been rinsed= away, dehair the hide. If you have a fleshing tool, use the backside (the d= ull side) of the blade to dehair the hide. If you don't have a fleshing knif= e, any dull blade will work. If you don't have any dull knives sitting aroun= d, just use your hands! Work by sliding against the grain of the hair. Go sl= owly and make sure to remove all the hairs, even the teeny weenie little one= s!

When you have removed all the hair, make up another lime bath identical to t= he one you made earlier and place the hide in it. Stir this twice a day for=20= 8 days. After the 8th day, take the hide out and rinse it again until the wa= ter runs very clear. Now the hide is ready for stretching.

To stretch the hide, you need a frame. The frame I use is 4' X 5' and made o= ut of 2" X 4" lumber. I use a mortise and tennon joint to join the pieces to= gether with the tennons being on the short pieces and the mortises the longe= r ones. I drilled =BD" holes through the frame at roughly 6" intervals for m= y tensioning pegs. If you don't have tensioning pegs (like me till recently=20= ;-) you can just thread your ropes through the holes and tie them off by han= d. Granted, this is harder and will cause blisters, but it is better than no= thing!  Now you must attach the hide to the frame.
There are two methods for doing this. One involves piercing the hide with sh= ort stout sticks and tying the rope around the stick to the frame. The other= involves the use of river rocks about the size of your pinky nail. The rock= s are pressed into the hide about 1-2 inches from the edge of the flesh side= till they are fully enveloped by hide and sticking out from the grain side.= Take a length of rope in you hand and double it. Hold the loop at the end a= nd fold it back. Pull the two ends of the rope through the loop. This will f= orm a slipknot. Place the slipknot around both the hide and the rock from th= e grain side. Sometime this is a lot more difficult than it seems. Keep tryi= ng, eventually it will come. Once you have attached all your ropes to the ro= cks and cinched them down so the slipknots are firmly gripping both the hide= and the rocks, you can tie them to the pegs or the frame itself.
I recommend you use sisal or jute twine for tying you hide. I use what is la= beled 'Heavy Sisal'. You want to avoid nylon ropes as they tend to stretch a= nd mess with you tension.
If tying them by hand, tie them as tightly as you possibly can! Drying under= tension is what separates vellum from leather. Without proper tension, you=20= will have limited success making vellum. Once tied, to add a bit more tensio= n put small pieces of wire (I used cheap tent pegs - Thanks Dear!)between th= e pieces of rope and twist them slowly. This will tighten your strings but a= lso cause them to be under more stress and they may break more easily. If yo= u form the wire into an 'L' shape, you can hook them around adjacent strings= and secure them from unwinding (once again - Thanks Dear!).
I should mention at this point that the hide should be kept wet for the rema= inder of the processing. It will be worked dry at a later stage, but for scr= aping you want it to stay reasonably wet.
Now it is time to scrape. If you happen to have a semi lunar knife sitting a= round, send it to me and use an old butcher knife like I currently am ;-). B= egin scraping on the flesh side of the hide. If you fleshed the hide either=20= before processing or after dehairing, this will be much easier. If not, it's= okay; this step will just take much longer. Using a very sharp rounded blad= e is best. Work in one direction as much as possible, I work from head to ta= il. I may work small areas in another direction to remove stubborn fat or ti= ssue, but I always revert to the up and down scraping. Don't be afraid to pu= t some elbow grease into it. This is not easy work and you have to really ge= t in there and press to get this material to come off the dermis. Be careful= not to go too hard too fast though or you could go through the skin. You wi= ll learn as you work the hide the proper force to use.
Once you have removed all the extraneous fat and muscle from the flesh side=20= of the hide, flip it around and scrape the grain side. This side is much eas= ier to scrape as it does not have all the extra material that the flesh side= did. Use a sharp knife and scrape until you are satisfied with the grain su= rface.

When you are done scraping set the frame aside, out of the sun for one day t= o dry. At the end of the day, check your hide. If you feel it needs it, spri= nkle the hide with water and remove all the damp flesh with pumice. This wil= l level the surface of the hide and raise a nap on the surface of the hide t= hat some people find desirable (I'm not one of those people). This can also=20= be done while the hide is dry by rubbing the surface of the hide with sandpa= per (a modern equivalent to glass paper).
Now is also the time to put any whiteners onto the surface of the hide. I ha= ve had good luck with slaked plaster myself. There are references to lime po= wder being used, but in my experience it tends to cause streaks on the surfa= ce of the hide.

Once you have finished with the surface preparation, set the hide aside over= night to ensure it has dried completely. Once you are satisfied the hide is=20= dry, cut it from the frame and enjoy the fruits of your handiwork.

I must take a moment here to share a few words of advice. I researched this=20= topic for a full year before I even thought about starting a hide. With all=20= the books I had read, all the notes taken, everything coming together I had=20= no real idea what I was doing when I started processing my first hide. No ha= ndout in the world can take the place of hands on experience!  Hopefull= y, the information contained herein has piqued your interest in this process= enough to start doing research on your own. There is information out there,= but it can be hard to come by. Look for anything by the author Ronald Reed.= His book entitled 'Ancient skins, Leathers and Parchments' is required read= ing as far as I'm concerned.

Be well!

THL Aengus MacBain
AEthelmearc

David Hassinger
Butler PA






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