From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #59 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, September 23 2002 Volume 08 : Number 059 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Re: scribes digest V8 #58 [scribes]: Re: Daler- Rowney egg tempura paints [scribes]: A recent example of my work [scribes]: Alcohol and ... RE [scribes]: I finally bought a dip pen RE [scribes]: I finally bought a dip pen [scribes]: Göttingen Model Book available [scribes]: Two other copies of Göttingen available Re: [scribes]: ok... recommendations, anyone? [scribes]: Scroll Competition in Atlantia [scribes]: 1496 to 1600 books list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 17:51:51 -0600 From: Juanita Subject: [scribes]: Re: scribes digest V8 #58 > Dear folks, > Do those of you who are teaching apprentices or students, require your > learners to s*bscribe to this list, or to be familiar with discussions on > it? - - -- johannes v.n. -- - - nope,'Hannes, I don't. But now I'm wondering, why do you ask? ttfn, Tux =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:33:54 -0600 From: Juanita Subject: [scribes]: Re: Daler- Rowney egg tempura paints > Greeting all, > I just got back from Boesner a HUGE art supply shop that sells at > book price not retail and I saw Daler- Rowney egg tempura paints > inc lead white. > Has anyone used these yet? Are they as cool as they seem? > Bridget - who didn't buy any but will . They are rather spiff, but be warned that they have some linseed oil in them, otherwise they would die in the tube. But they are durable, stick well to paper and velleum and gesso. I used their lead white and cadmium reds and cadmium yellows on gesso for my pas-de-armes shield (the other colors I worked up from scratch, but decided to use the stuff from the tubes rather than make up lead and mercury and arsenic tempuras myself...) They dry REALLY FAST, but mix and handle like oils - nice tube paints, all things considered. I've used them on more like oils than like gouache. I did a couple of scrolls using the Daler-Rowney tempures, too, back when I was beginning to play with them, to see how they would work, and had no problems with them other than learning to guage how much to squeeze out of the tube, since whatever you squeeze out will be unusable in about 4 hours. Oh...here's one other thing to consider about the Daler-Rowney egg tempuras in a tube - their "curing" time is on the order of weeks, sometimes months if you live in a place that has a real winter (unlike Caid and Trimaris, and most of the West and Atenveldt) so using these on a last minute, gotta-have-it-done-by-court scroll isn't a good idea. On the other hand, if you're getting into panel painting, egg tempura tube paints is a rather low-labor way to discover if it's a good paint type for you. Other than the oil content, they behave more like egg-yolk tempered paint made from scratch than not. I do recommend that you read through all of what Mayer had to write about the care and handling of tempera paints in _The Artist's Handbook_ (Viking Press, 1977, still in print) before you play with egg temperas, even though Mayer has the relevant sections split up in three different spots in the book. Daniel Thompson's book on tempera painting is also a good one to read before picking up your brush. Just a suggestion... Overall, I like them and would recommend them to anyone wanting to try out painting with tempera. Their ony drawback is that they are not exactly as cheap as gouache. I will be using some of them again though for my newest pas-de-armes-style shield (there's now a crack through the gold leaf on my old one of St. George and the Wagon...so I'm going to retire it soon before it gets too beaten up; I think the new one will be of many saintly archers [with the requisite gold leaf haloes, of course] shooting at a castle under siege...and I'm going to call it "Saints Siege Bastion") I'm going to duck and run away now... ;-) ttfn Therasia (still in bed with cabin fever...) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:22:02 -0600 From: Juanita Subject: [scribes]: A recent example of my work The Cat Indulgence is a papal indulgence for a cat to catch vermin on holy days. I did the piece up for a recent Kingdom of Artemisia fundraiser. Other than my Duke-de-Berry "O," it's one of the few pieces of mine that's webbed. You can find the cat indulgence at: http://www.onewest.net/~no1home/catscroll.html ttfn, Cabin Fever (formerly Therasia) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:49:14 +1000 From: Christine Robertson Subject: [scribes]: Alcohol and ... > On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Sunshine wrote: > ...and alcohol and gesso don't mix. > > I dunno; my last gesso project certainly drove me to drink... > > Graidhne > As the saying goes... Don't scribe drunk. (Friends don't let friends scribe drunk). ;) Don't know 'bout that, Sunshine -- I do most of my work with a glass of red on the bench. ('course, I drink maybe 2/3 per hour :-) ) - --Yseult - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Roberton Yseult de Lacy, OL Lane Cove, Sydney NSW Barony of Rowany Australia http://goldgryph.virtualave.net Lochac =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 03:10:47 -0400 From: Cpccohen@aol.com Subject: RE [scribes]: I finally bought a dip pen If the nib is a speedball, you're probably better off getting a tapered paint-brush to load your nib. If you have a William-Mitchell nib, go ahead and dip, but especially with India Ink, you'll want to clean it off every half hour or so. Just detatch the reservoir and scrape the build-up of with a toothbrush, or even your fingernail (true scribes are supposed to have ink-stained hands, after all). India ink is sometimes cumbersome to work with, but it's worth it: you don't have any of those variations in color when you re-load your nib or finish a stroke (which I hate), and it's super-permanent. After you're done writing, a tooth-brush with soap and water should clean your nibs fine, but don't put it off--if you wait too long you'll never get the dry ink off, and it can get wedged in the crack down the center of your nib, which makes it useless for fine work. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 03:10:44 -0400 From: Cpccohen@aol.com Subject: RE [scribes]: I finally bought a dip pen If the nib is a speedball, you're probably better off getting a tapered paint-brush to load your nib. If you have a William-Mitchell nib, go ahead and dip, but especially with India Ink, you'll want to clean it off every half hour or so. Just detatch the reservoir and scrape the build-up of with a toothbrush, or even your fingernail (true scribes are supposed to have ink-stained hands, after all). India ink is sometimes cumbersome to work with, but it's worth it: you don't have any of those variations in color when you re-load your nib or finish a stroke (which I hate), and it's super-permanent. After you're done writing, a tooth-brush with soap and water should clean your nibs fine, but don't put it off--if you wait too long you'll never get the dry ink off, and it can get wedged in the crack down the center of your nib, which makes it useless for fine work. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:33:40 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: [scribes]: Göttingen Model Book available For anybody who still doesn't own a copy of the Göttingen Model Book and would like a copy, Abebooks.com has a copy for sale. Here is the information on it: 1. THE GOTTINGEN MODEL BOOK A Facsimile Edition and Translations of a Fifteenth-Century Illuminator's Manual (Based in Part on the Studies of the Late Dr. Edmund Will) by Lehmann-Haupt, Hellmut, Edited with Commentary By Columbia, Missouri: University of Missouri Press, 1972 Cloth Hardcover w/Dust Jacket. Very Good -/Very Good -. First Edition. Ex-Library. 8 1/4"x 10 1/4" (oblong). ISBN:0-8262-0102-4. Chapters include: Acknowledgments; Introduction; Model Book Facimilie; Modern German Translation; English Translation; Works Influenced By The Model Book; Postscript. FROM DUST JACKET: 'Here, reproduced in full-color facsimilie and set within a scholarly discussion of its origin and influence, is a fifteenth-century manual for illuminators -- instructions for the compounding of inks and paints that border on alchemy and directions for their application that can guide the hand through the intricacies of ornamentation. This "Model Book" is the only surviving manuscript of its kind and provides detailed instruction for marginal illumination and the production of initial letters. The twenty- two illustrated faces of the eleven small leaves by an unknown master are reproduced to exact size.' Book Condition: Binding tight, dark red cloth bright. Tape residue from jacket flaps being taped to book. Small dark stain on bottom edge of front cover and tiny stain on bottom edge of rear cover. Usual library markings and paste-ons, tape residue, etc. Spine is clean and bright. Upper corners bumped. Dust Jacket: Whole with a little soiling, mostly on rear cover. A little edgewear, a couple of short tears. Small library sticker on bottom of spine. (Keywords: ILLUMINATED MANUSCRIPTS, MANUSCRIPT, ILLUMINATION, GOTTINGEN LIBRARY 0-8262-0102-4) The price of the book is US$ 65.00 Please reference the seller's book # 000298 when ordering. To order this book click here: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?ph=1&bi=161358784 The seller is De Pee Books P. O. Box 203 , Lindsay, CA, U.S.A., 93247. Terms of sale: checks or money orders ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:27:10 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: [scribes]: Two other copies of Göttingen available Abebooks.com has two other copies of the Göttingen Model Book available. If you go to their web page, www.abebooks.com and type "Gottingen Model Book" under a title search, it will bring up the other two copies that are currently available for sale. However, let me warn you that one seller wants $125 and the other wants $170 for their copies. However, this book has proven hard enough to find that if you can afford those prices, it may be worth plunking down the money for one. But I still thought I'd give you all a "heads-up" on these available copies, seeing as how it seems to be a much desired book among scribes! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:59:48 EDT From: ArtsofPalm@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: ok... recommendations, anyone? Ok... I'm going to Paris! Hooray! But, I will only have one day. Any 'scribal' recommondations on where and what to visit? =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 18:36:59 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Scroll Competition in Atlantia - --part1_aa.122d16a8.2ac0f18b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have added one more thing to the competition: You can do a scroll blank instead of a backlog assignment, if you wish. The scroll blank must be for an Atlantian armigerous award - just leave a space for the name, blazon and coat of arms. Below is my original post. I also went to the library and found a bunch of books you can look for in the featured time period. I will be typing them up soon and posting them to the list. We are also going to put them on a web page and will try to add to them as time goes on. If you have any questions about the competition, please email me. >>> Greetings fellow scribes from the Scrivener Royal Atlantia; I am sponsoring a scroll competition at Fall Crown Tournament (November 1-3 in Bright Hills) as part of the Tempore Atlantia. The time period for this event is: Fall Crown 2002 - items from 1492-1600 The theme for the competition is equestrian activities. Your scroll should have a horse or an item of tack (saddle, bridle, lance, horseman's mace, etc.) from the time period above somewhere in the illumination. You may also create an equestrian theme wording for the scroll, provided you have your text approved by the office of the Clerk of the Signet. Documentation of your design will get you extra points. The award should be from Atlantia's backlog, a current assignment you are working on, or from a Baronial award from a Barony in Atlantia. There will be four categories with prizes for each: Novice (anyone who has being doing SCA scrolls for one year or less); Journeyman (anyone who has been doing scrolls for over one year, but has not gotten a Pearl or Laural, or has not worked with period supplies or materials; Master (anyone who has a Pearl or Laural in any of the scribal arts/ or who works with period supplies and materials); and Non-paper (scrolls must be done on something other than paper, such as vellum, leather, parchment, wood, ceramics, embroidery, etc., for this category). You can get an assignment off the backlog from the Clerk of the Signet, Lady Genevieve D'Evereux at signet@atlantia.sca.org I shall be posting a list of books to look for in your library to get ideas/documentation from the featured time period (1495 to 1600). If anyone already knows of some books in this time period, please post them for the general populace. If you need any assistance or clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me at brndalston@aol.com or (757) 488-3597. Happy Scribing! Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Scrivener Royal) <<< - --part1_aa.122d16a8.2ac0f18b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have added one more thing to the competition: You can do a scroll blank instead of a backlog assignment, if you wish. The scroll blank must be for an Atlantian armigerous award - just leave a space for the name, blazon and coat of arms. Below is my original post. I also went to the library and found a bunch of books you can look for in the featured time period. I will be typing them up soon and posting them to the list. We are also going to put them on a web page and will try to add to them as time goes on. If you have any questions about the competition, please email me.

>>>
Greetings fellow scribes from the Scrivener Royal Atlantia;

I am sponsoring a scroll competition at Fall Crown Tournament (November 1-3 in Bright Hills) as part of the Tempore Atlantia. The time period for this event is:

Fall Crown 2002 - items from 1492-1600

The theme for the competition is equestrian activities. Your scroll should have a horse or an item of tack (saddle, bridle, lance, horseman's mace, etc.) from the time period above somewhere in the illumination. You may also create an equestrian theme wording for the scroll, provided you have your text approved by the office of the Clerk of the Signet. Documentation of your design will get you extra points.

The award should be from Atlantia's backlog, a current assignment you are working on, or from a Baronial award from a Barony in Atlantia.

There will be four categories with prizes for each:
Novice (anyone who has being doing SCA scrolls for one year or less);

Journeyman (anyone who has been doing scrolls for over one year, but has not gotten a Pearl or Laural, or has not worked with period supplies or materials;

Master (anyone who has a Pearl or Laural in any of the scribal arts/ or who works with period supplies and materials);

and Non-paper (scrolls must be done on something other than paper, such as vellum, leather, parchment, wood, ceramics, embroidery, etc., for this category).

You can get an assignment off the backlog from the Clerk of the Signet, Lady Genevieve D'Evereux at signet@atlantia.sca.org

I shall be posting a list of books to look for in your library to get ideas/documentation from the featured time period (1495 to 1600). If anyone already knows of some books in this time period, please post them for the general populace.

If you need any assistance or clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me at brndalston@aol.com or (757) 488-3597.

Happy Scribing!
Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Scrivener Royal)
<<<


- --part1_aa.122d16a8.2ac0f18b_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:48:00 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: 1496 to 1600 books list - --part1_1bc.e59c65b.2ac13a70_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below is a short list of some books to look for illumination in the 1495-1600 time frame for the Tempore Atlantia scroll competition at Crown Tourney in November. If you have any you would like to add, please post them to the list. Tristan is going to put them up on a web page and I will pass the url along as soon as he has it up and running. Then we can add more titles as they come in, and build it to include more timeframes. Bibliography for 1495 to 1600 Books on Illumination "The IsabellaBreviary" The British Library , ISBN 0-7123-0269-7 (c.1497 Flemish Trompede-liole "Squashed Bug Illumination") "Suleymannamme" byEsin Atil, National Gallery of Art, Washington DC, Harry N. Abrams, Inc.Publishers, NY, ISBN 0-89468-088-9 (paper), 0-8109-1505-7 (cloth) (c. 1495-1516, Islamic) "Painted Prayers"by Roger S. Wieck, George Braziller, Inc., New York (c. 1300-1600 General bookof pages from Europe) "Italian RenaissanceIlluminations" George Braziller, NY ISBN 0-8076-0863-7 (Covers many years ofItalian illumination, some in this time period, but most earlier) "Flemish IlluminatedManuscripts" Ludion Press ISBN 0-809-6318-3 (c. 1475 to 1550 Flemish) "Pirdsin MedievalManuscripts" by Pruns dun Vaff, 1981 Schocken Books, WY ISBN 0-8052-3818-2 "European IlluminatedManuscripts" Thames and Hudson London Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift) Scrivener Royal Atlantia - --part1_1bc.e59c65b.2ac13a70_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below is a short list of some books to look for illumination in the 1495-1600 time frame for the Tempore Atlantia scroll competition at Crown Tourney in November. If you have any you would like to add, please post them to the list. Tristan is going to put them up on a web page and I will pass the url along as soon as he has it up and running. Then we can add more titles as they come in, and build it to include more timeframes.


Bibliography for 1495 to 1600 Books on Illumination

&quot;The IsabellaBreviary&quot; The British Library , ISBN 0-7123-0269-7
(c.1497 Flemish Trompede-liole &quot;Squashed Bug Illumination&quot;)

&quot;Suleymannamme&quot; byEsin Atil, National Gallery of Art, Washington DC, Harry N. Abrams, Inc.Publishers, NY, ISBN 0-89468-088-9 (paper), 0-8109-1505-7 (cloth)
(c. 1495-1516, Islamic)

&quot;Painted Prayers&quot;by Roger S. Wieck, George Braziller, Inc., New York
(c. 1300-1600 General bookof pages from Europe)

&quot;Italian RenaissanceIlluminations&quot; George Braziller, NY ISBN 0-8076-0863-7
(Covers many years ofItalian illumination, some in this time period, but most earlier)

&quot;Flemish IlluminatedManuscripts&quot; Ludion Press ISBN 0-809-6318-3
(c. 1475 to 1550 Flemish)

&quot;Pirdsin MedievalManuscripts&quot; by Pruns dun Vaff, 1981 Schocken Books, WY ISBN 0-8052-3818-2

&quot;European IlluminatedManuscripts&quot; Thames and Hudson London

Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift) Scrivener Royal Atlantia

 - --part1_1bc.e59c65b.2ac13a70_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #59 ****************************