From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #49 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, September 2 2002 Volume 08 : Number 049 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: THE BIBLE OF SAINT LOUIS [scribes]: Fwd: 16th Century Danish Illumination and Calligraphy [scribes]: Re: 16th Century Danish Illumination and Calligraphy [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection [scribes]: Crown Tourney Scroll Competition - Tempore Atlantia [scribes]: Calligraphy page [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries Re: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries Re: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:02:31 -0400 From: Fionnseach du Lochielle Subject: [scribes]: THE BIBLE OF SAINT LOUIS This URL was sent to me by my Protege sister, Fiadnata o Gleann Alainn. The site/company caters to the University Rare Books collection/collectors, etc. Anyway, here it is: http://www.biblia-san-luis.com/usa/ - -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- ~=Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle=~ Not to have, but to give; Chronicler/Web - Shire of Dernehealde Not to take, but to receive. Combat Scribe - Barony Middle Marches Pursuivant-at-Large - Middle Kingdom Protege of Master Brusten de Bearsul =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:06:49 -0400 From: Fionnseach du Lochielle Subject: [scribes]: Fwd: 16th Century Danish Illumination and Calligraphy This was sent to me alone, and I thought that it might have been meant for one of the lists... YIS, Sister Fionnseach >From: KAHLENR0SE@aol.com >Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:01:34 EDT > >Does anyone have links to online manuscripts from 16th century Denmark? Any >suggestions for creating a scroll in the style? >Kahlen > >Work like you don't need the money; dance like no one is watching; sing like >no one is listening; love like you've never been hurt; and live every day as >if it were your last. - -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- ~=Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle=~ Not to have, but to give; Chronicler/Web - Shire of Dernehealde Not to take, but to receive. Combat Scribe - Barony Middle Marches Pursuivant-at-Large - Middle Kingdom Protege of Master Brusten de Bearsul =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:45:46 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: [scribes]: Re: 16th Century Danish Illumination and Calligraphy Please pass on this web site... not all are Danish, but they are located in the Danish hands. There are 12 manuscripts on this page... at least 9 are complete. Give it a try. I believe the Kristina Psalter belonged to one of their queens, but it wasn't produced in Denmark. http://www.kb.dk/elib/mss/mdr/index-en.htm And, for the fighters among the readers, the last one on the site is a manual of German fighting techniques... fully illuminated!! Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://meisterin.katarina.home.insightbb.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fionnseach du Lochielle" To: ; Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:06 PM Subject: [MK-SCRIBES] Fwd: 16th Century Danish Illumination and Calligraphy > This was sent to me alone, and I thought that it might have been meant for one of the lists... > > YIS, > Sister Fionnseach > > > >From: KAHLENR0SE@aol.com > >Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:01:34 EDT > > > >Does anyone have links to online manuscripts from 16th century Denmark? Any > >suggestions for creating a scroll in the style? > >Kahlen > > > >Work like you don't need the money; dance like no one is watching; sing like > >no one is listening; love like you've never been hurt; and live every day as > >if it were your last. > > -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- > ~=Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle=~ Not to have, but to give; > Chronicler/Web - Shire of Dernehealde Not to take, but to receive. > Combat Scribe - Barony Middle Marches > Pursuivant-at-Large - Middle Kingdom Protege of Master Brusten de Bearsul > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/LmiolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > MK-SCRIBES-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 00:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing This is the monthly mailing of the administrivia information for the scribes mailing list. [Last updated on: Thu Jul 8 21:26:10 PDT 1999] This is the scribes mailing list. It is open for discussion of scribal arts including illumination, calligraphy, paper making, etc. The posting address for scribes is "scribes@castle.org". To unsubscribe, send email to "majordomo@castle.org" with "unsubscribe scribes" in the body of the message. If you want to receive a digest version of this list, unsubscribe from scribes (see the instructions, above) and subscribe to scribes-digest instead. Problems and questions should be addressed to "scribes-owner@castle.org" as the list maintainer may or may not actually read the scribes mailing list. This mailing list is not an official list of the Society for Creative Anachronism, any College of Scribes, or the Barony of Calafia. No spam is allowed on this list. Spammers will be deleted without warning. TECHNICAL NOTE: This mailing list is set up to retain the original author's email address in the From: line. Most email programs will reply directly to the author unless you select the equivalent of "reply to all". This is done to reduce the likelihood of the embarrassing "me too" that happens all too often on mailing lists these days. There are other SCA-related mailing lists hosted @castle.org. scribes@castle.org antir_apprentices@castle.org antir_scribes@castle.org cal_cooking@castle.org caid_scribes@castle.org caid_heralds@castle.org caid_bluefeather@castle.org tanwayour@castle.org You can subscribe to them the same way you subscribed to this list. If you get this far in this message, there are two requests the list maintainer would make: 1. Please send a note of introduction to the scribes list. Say who you are, where you are, and what your scribal interests are. and 2. Please sign your notes to this list with your society name and branch, along with your mundane name and location. Enjoy! Your list maintainer is: Lord Christopher Thomas mka Lee Damon Calafia, Caid San Diego, CA =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 11:03:31 EDT From: ArtsofPalm@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection I was looking at the collection at the site that Ailith told us about. If any of you out there went to Alienor's scribal tract class at Pennsic, or have been involved in bookbinding, I wanted to show you a great example of the bookbinding lesson that she taught us.... http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.1/ms2080b.jpg cool, huh? However, I don't get the braiding and 'extra stitches' at the top and bottom of the book. I'm guessing it aids in strengthening, but I don't get it. :^ \ Irene (Regina) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:16:50 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection Greetings all: I didn't take Alienor's classes this year at Pennsic, but I did purchase a wonderful book this year that might help explain some of the different stitches used in period. It isn't a "how-to" book, but rather a book about the archeology of books. It is called "The Archeology of Medieval Bookbinding," by J.A. Szirmai. It is available through interlibrary loan, or you can purchase it from most of the big on-line book sellers. It is over $100 -- so be prepared to spend that much or else get it through your local library. The ISBN is: 0-85967-904-7. It was first published in 1999, and has been reprinted in 2000 and 2001. Publisher is Ashgate Publishing Company... they have offices in England and in Vermont, USA. I am just now starting to get into book binding, and it is a MUST HAVE in my opinion. Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://meisterin.katarina.home.insightbb.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection > I was looking at the collection at the site that Ailith told us about. If > any of you out there went to Alienor's scribal tract class at Pennsic, or > have been involved in bookbinding, I wanted to show you a great example of > the bookbinding lesson that she taught us.... > > http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.1/ms2080b.jpg > > cool, huh? However, I don't get the braiding and 'extra stitches' at the top > and bottom of the book. I'm guessing it aids in strengthening, but I don't > get it. :^ \ > > Irene (Regina) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 ArtsofPalm@aol.com wrote: > I was looking at the collection at the site that Ailith told > us about. If any of you out there went to Alienor's scribal > tract class at Pennsic, or have been involved in bookbinding, > I wanted to show you a great example of the bookbinding > lesson that she taught us.... > > http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.1/ms2080b.jpg > > cool, huh? However, I don't get the braiding and 'extra > stitches' at the top and bottom of the book. I'm guessing it > aids in strengthening, but I don't get it. :^ \ It's a separate issue from the main one of joining the quires/gatherings -- it's the "headband" or "endband". =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:46:33 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Crown Tourney Scroll Competition - Tempore Atlantia - --part1_12b.16b30dc7.2aa400d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> Greetings fellow scribes from the Scrivener Royal Atlantia; I am sponsoring a scroll competition at Fall Crown Tournament (November 1-3 in Bright Hills) as part of the Tempore Atlantia. The time period for this event is: Fall Crown 2002 - items from 1492-1600 The theme for the competition is equestrian activities. Your scroll should have a horse or an item of tack (saddle, bridle, lance, horseman's mace, etc.) from the time period above somewhere in the illumination. You may also create an equestrian theme wording for the scroll, provided you have your text approved by the office of the Clerk of the Signet. Documentation of your design will get you extra points. The award should be from Atlantia's backlog, a current assignment you are working on, or from a Baronial award from a Barony in Atlantia. There will be four categories with prizes for each: Novice (anyone who has being doing SCA scrolls for one year or less); Journeyman (anyone who has been doing scrolls for over one year, but has not gotten a Pearl or Laural, or has not worked with period supplies or materials; Master (anyone who has a Pearl or Laural in any of the scribal arts/ or who works with period supplies and materials); and Non-paper (scrolls must be done on something other than paper, such as vellum, leather, parchment, wood, ceramics, embroidery, etc., for this category). You can get an assignment off the backlog from the Clerk of the Signet, Lady Genevieve D'Evereux at signet@atlantia.sca.org I shall be posting a list of books to look for in your library to get ideas/documentation from the featured time period (1495 to 1600). If anyone already knows of some books in this time period, please post them for the general populace. If you need any assistance or clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me at brndalston@aol.com or (757) 488-3597. Happy Scribing! Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Scrivener Royal) <<< - --part1_12b.16b30dc7.2aa400d9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>
Greetings fellow scribes from the Scrivener Royal Atlantia;

I am sponsoring a scroll competition at Fall Crown Tournament (November 1-3 in Bright Hills) as part of the Tempore Atlantia. The time period for this event is:

Fall Crown 2002 - items from 1492-1600

The theme for the competition is equestrian activities. Your scroll should have a horse or an item of tack (saddle, bridle, lance, horseman's mace, etc.) from the time period above somewhere in the illumination. You may also create an equestrian theme wording for the scroll, provided you have your text approved by the office of the Clerk of the Signet. Documentation of your design will get you extra points.

The award should be from Atlantia's backlog, a current assignment you are working on, or from a Baronial award from a Barony in Atlantia.

There will be four categories with prizes for each:
Novice (anyone who has being doing SCA scrolls for one year or less);

Journeyman (anyone who has been doing scrolls for over one year, but has not gotten a Pearl or Laural, or has not worked with period supplies or materials;

Master (anyone who has a Pearl or Laural in any of the scribal arts/ or who works with period supplies and materials);

and Non-paper (scrolls must be done on something other than paper, such as vellum, leather, parchment, wood, ceramics, embroidery, etc., for this category).

You can get an assignment off the backlog from the Clerk of the Signet, Lady Genevieve D'Evereux at signet@atlantia.sca.org

I shall be posting a list of books to look for in your library to get ideas/documentation from the featured time period (1495 to 1600). If anyone already knows of some books in this time period, please post them for the general populace.

If you need any assistance or clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me at brndalston@aol.com or (757) 488-3597.

Happy Scribing!
Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Scrivener Royal)
<<<
- --part1_12b.16b30dc7.2aa400d9_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13:43:00 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: [scribes]: Calligraphy page hi Check out this website by artist Josep Batlle, reproductions of period Spanish manuscripts. Try not to drool on the keyboard... http://www.caligrafies.com/english/index.php as ever Thorfinn =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:11:19 -0400 From: Susan Arthur Subject: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries Greetings to the list! It's been awhile since I've written with questions, and now it's going to be one that I'm sure we've discussed before. I'll throw in another just to keep you all from getting bored. ;> I am getting ready to start my husband's AoA scroll. Since I know he loves flash, I thought lots of gold leaf would be apropos. I have also been wanting to do a squashed bug scroll. Somehow I got in my head that lots of squashed bug scrolls are on gold leaf borders, with the shadows of the flowers, bugs, etc, painted on the gold leaf. Now that I am researching (trans: looking through all my pretty books) I don't SEE squashed bugs on gold leaf, but on painted backgrounds. Was I imagining things? Did I combine the memory of Visconti's wide gold borders with squashed bugs even though they are really two separate things? Or are they really done on gold leaf sometimes? And the question I know we have discussed: how to paint on top of gold leaf. I seem to recall that garlic juice and glair have both been mentioned. I have tried garlic juice and I don't feel confident that it will really hold paint on the gold. Recommendations? And a final question about glair: said husband is a cook and uses a copper bowl to whip egg whites. I know that for glair, nothing should be added to the egg white; does the interaction with the copper bowl come under that category? Ie, should I simply throw the egg white in a glass bowl and whip it with an electric beater? Also: how much glair will one egg white yield? Should I whip several and keep the glair for a while? I do recall hearing that in re glair, older is better. (Now, when we get to believe that about women, I'll be a happy camper for sure!!) Lucia =========================== Maestra Lucia Bellini Baroness, Windmasters' Hill CP, OL Guildmistress, Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Lucia/index.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:44:48 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries Good Morning, Lucia and the list, on this lovely Labor Day (well, it is lovely here in Indiana). Most of the work we call squashed bug in the SCA is actually called "trompe l'oeil," -- to fool the eye. In rare occasions, they actually did a flat gilding with shell, but most of the time, it was shell gold for the background. The other thing to keep in mind, we see a lot of these pages blown up beyond their original size... the ones done with flat gilding were much smaller than 4" x 8", so it was easier to get a smoother base down. I would guess the flat gilding was done with gum ammoniac or gum arabic, but I've not done it so can't say for sure. I do have a real page from a manuscript that has the flat gilding and the trompe l'oeil flowers painted on it. One or two of the flowers are coming off now after several centuries. It also shows where the artist decided that the acanthus type leaf needed to have more of a twist and painted white over green or blue... it is awesome to see the overpainting up close. With shell gold (you can use a high quality gouache for it if you want), you can paint larger surfaces because it is already suspended in gum arabic... you just add the water. I did a piece recently with it and was very surprised how far it spread and still retain its "goldness." Many styles of trompe l'oeil (or squashed bug, if you may) are done with the shell so that it almost looks like they put the shell into a very thinned out wash of one of the umbers (I have a couple real manuscript pages with this style, too). But, until I actually did one myself, I believed that wholeheartedly. Now, I know it is just the shell gold... which is quite thin, and allows the vellum/paper to short of show through it. You can paint a second coat of the shell on to make it a bit more solid looking. You need add nothing to your regular paint to work on top of shell (which can be burnished later, if wanted). Lucia, I do have a jpg of the flat gilded piece, I'll see if I can add it to my web site later today for all to see... I have a link to selected stuff from the Scribe's List there. Now, I've not done any of this type of painting myself, so I can only speak of what I recall others having mentioned. Besides the garlic and glair, I think someone else recommended a drop of liquid dish soap. Now, about your glair. I'm sure others who have made it will agree with me... one egg should be sufficient for your purposes, but I wouldn't recommend more than two -- it goes a long way. I was taught to make it using a glass bowl and electric beaters... a heck of a lot easier than to do the beating by hand . Let the beat up whites sit for several hours, or over night. In the morning, drain off and save the liquid under the remaining froth. Also, just a small hint... be sure you don't have the white stringy stuff in there when you start beating. I was told it will adversely affect your end product. Then, all you need is an old film canister or an old spice jar to keep it in... something you can seal up when not in use. Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://meisterin.katarina.home.insightbb.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Arthur" To: Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 8:11 AM Subject: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries > Greetings to the list! > > It's been awhile since I've written with questions, and now it's going to > be one that I'm sure we've discussed before. I'll throw in another just to > keep you all from getting bored. ;> > > I am getting ready to start my husband's AoA scroll. Since I know he loves > flash, I thought lots of gold leaf would be apropos. I have also been > wanting to do a squashed bug scroll. Somehow I got in my head that lots of > squashed bug scrolls are on gold leaf borders, with the shadows of the > flowers, bugs, etc, painted on the gold leaf. Now that I am researching > (trans: looking through all my pretty books) I don't SEE squashed bugs on > gold leaf, but on painted backgrounds. > > Was I imagining things? Did I combine the memory of Visconti's wide gold > borders with squashed bugs even though they are really two separate things? > Or are they really done on gold leaf sometimes? > > And the question I know we have discussed: how to paint on top of gold > leaf. I seem to recall that garlic juice and glair have both been > mentioned. I have tried garlic juice and I don't feel confident that it > will really hold paint on the gold. Recommendations? > > And a final question about glair: said husband is a cook and uses a copper > bowl to whip egg whites. I know that for glair, nothing should be added to > the egg white; does the interaction with the copper bowl come under that > category? Ie, should I simply throw the egg white in a glass bowl and whip > it with an electric beater? Also: how much glair will one egg white yield? > Should I whip several and keep the glair for a while? I do recall hearing > that in re glair, older is better. (Now, when we get to believe that about > women, I'll be a happy camper for sure!!) > > Lucia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:13:14 +0800 From: Jean-Paul Blaquiere Subject: Re: [scribes]: gold leaf, squashed bugs and other cosmic mysteries > On Sep 02, Susan Arthur illuminated : > And a final question about glair: said husband is a cook and uses a copper > bowl to whip egg whites. I know that for glair, nothing should be added to > the egg white; does the interaction with the copper bowl come under that > category? Ie, should I simply throw the egg white in a glass bowl and whip > it with an electric beater? Also: how much glair will one egg white yield? > Should I whip several and keep the glair for a while? I do recall hearing > that in re glair, older is better. (Now, when we get to believe that about > women, I'll be a happy camper for sure!!) > to quote, er paraphrase Eibhlin ni Chaoimh, AEthelmearc Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:31:43 EST Subject: [scribes]: Re: Flat gilding I've tried all kinds of concoctions :-) Glair with a tiny bit of honey will work as a flat size. There are other things that IMHO work better, but this will hold gold to paper.... if that's all you're after. FWIW - I have some glair that is over 2 years old. It works wonderfully well and doesn't smell that bad. I have several different bottles of glair (I keep at least one from every painting class I teach) At about 6 months it is at it's most pungent. After that, the smell starts to lessen a bit. Its no worse than ox gall after about a year. Old glair is a dream to work with. It flows just like water. :-) In my classes I like to get folks busy making paint with new glair or egg yolk and while they are occupied I mix up a bit of paint with old glair. After I'm done I ask if anyone smells something funny. The answer is usually "No" or "Just eggs". You should see the look on their faces when I hold up the bottle of year old glair I just used to make the paint. I pass it around and they get to feel the difference in the flow of the paint made with fresh glair and the paint made with old glair. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc HTH, HAND, ahhh archives. ./Jehan - -- Jean-Paul Blaquiere || Avatar of Computational japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au || Thaumaturgy http://japester.ucc.asn.au || verum ipsum factum Questions are dangerous, for they have answers =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #49 ****************************