From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #47 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, August 29 2002 Volume 08 : Number 047 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Pennsic gathering thanks [scribes]: Introduction Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees & buy.com [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection [scribes]: Baron Master (squared) Harold von Auerbach? Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Re: [scribes]: Baron Master (squared) Harold von Auerbach? [scribes]: calligraphy in Phoebus' Book of the Hunt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:02:32 -0400 From: Sally Burnell Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pennsic gathering thanks >Thanks also to all who attended the Known World Scribal Gathering at >Pennsic. The number of attendees was higher this year than last and the >work that was displayed - - - - - - words cannot describe the amount of >talent and beauty displayed at the gathering. The love of the written and >embellished word is obviously very large within those who were able to attend. Alas, I was unable to attend due to battlefield responsibilities. I even had my portfolio with me this year. Ah, well, I am quite sure I missed a really great opportunity to meet many of you who I have spoken to here in the virtual world. But daytime at Pennsic, particularly during War Week, means that I must be on the battlefield attending our Household army as the head of its Battlefield Support Corps. I'm on the battlefield from early morning (around 9:30 a.m.) and I rarely get home from battlefield duty before 6:00 p.m. unless there aren't many battles being fought on a particular day (example: The Woods Battle. That is the one and only battle I do on Tuesday of War Week, as that's enough hard work for one day! We're all utterly spent after that one!). So sorry I missed the Scribal Gathering, though! I'd've really liked to have attended! Maybe some other time, then? Sounds like y'all had a grand time! Were any photos taken that are up on any web sites that we might see? ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:48:01 -0700 From: "Julie & Derek Craig" Subject: [scribes]: Introduction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C24DB7.36C613E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. I am Julie and am = currently residing in the Shire of Ildhafn (Auckland, New Zealand). I have read some of your e-mails and have found alot of the references = and books (unfortunately most of them in US currency =3D 2.4x for me) = extremely interesting. I do have a couple of questions. =20 What consititues a good portfolio? =20 and If there are classes being held in the US that I would obviously not be = able to attend on a regular basis, is there a site or address that I = could link into that would perhaps give me the notes, or are the classes = more hands on? I am interested in illumination and calligraphy and have many projects = whizzing around my brain, but am slow in the making of them due to my = young family...but I am determined to get there! A list of reference books sounds like a marvelous idea to me. It is so = easy to go into a book or art shop for that matter, and only have little = of the edition related to what I might be interested in, so a breakdown = of what a book would be specifically related to would be good too. Yours in service Lady Elena Jacobsdatter aka Julie Craig Auckland NZ=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C24DB7.36C613E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings,
I am new to the group and wanted = to=20 introduce myself.  I am Julie and am currently residing in the = Shire of=20 Ildhafn (Auckland, New Zealand).
I have read some of your e-mails = and have=20 found alot of the references and books (unfortunately most of them in US = currency =3D 2.4x for me) extremely interesting.
I do have a couple of=20 questions.  
What consititues a good=20 portfolio?  
and
If there are classes being held = in the US=20 that I would obviously not be able to attend on a regular basis, is = there=20 a site or address that I could link into that would perhaps = give me=20 the notes, or are the classes more hands on?
 
I am interested in = illumination and=20 calligraphy and have many projects whizzing around my brain, but am slow = in the=20 making of them due to my young family...but I am determined to get=20 there!
 
A list of reference books sounds = like a=20 marvelous idea to me.  It is so easy to go into a book or art shop = for that=20 matter, and only have little of the edition related to what I might be=20 interested in, so a breakdown of what a book would be specifically = related to=20 would be good too.
 
Yours in service
Lady Elena = Jacobsdatter
aka  Julie Craig Auckland=20 NZ 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C24DB7.36C613E0-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:42:11 -0100 From: alienor Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees I don't want to depress anyone who has already purchased this, but I just ordered it from Buy.com for 37.80 with free shipping, if you are willing to wait for it to be delivered by USPS. When I ordered it on Friday, they had it in stock and my copy is on its way. Cheers, Alienor =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:23:11 -0400 From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees Evil, evil woman. I had not been to buy.com before, because I don't have a credit card and thought you needed one. Now I know you can pay by money order...and they have Masterpieces of Illuminated Manuscripts from the JP Getty Museum for 34.50 plus free shipping. I'm ordering it Friday. Laurensa - ----- Original Message ----- From: "alienor" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees > I don't want to depress anyone who has already purchased this, but > I just ordered it from Buy.com for 37.80 with free shipping, if you are > willing to wait for it to be delivered by USPS. > > When I ordered it on Friday, they had it in stock and my copy is > on its way. > > Cheers, > Alienor > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:47:54 +0200 From: merlyn@virulent.de Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees & buy.com 0100,0100,0100Just a little note for all of us who live out side of the USA and this includes Canada, in order to get stuff from buy it .com, if I read this right, you need to order at least 500$. to quote "Times New RomanAll orders placed must be over $500 Door-to-Door delivery of products Wire transfer payments only " Arial... so unless you have a US address you can send stuff to, it doesn't work for anyone out side of the USA. just to let you all know. and if I read this wrong please let me know cuz there are a ton of books ( though not 500$ worth) I'd love to order too. Amazon may be a bit pricier sometimes but at least I can do minimum orders, if I order over 50-Euro worth of books i get nailed for Customs and it's even worse in Canada where you not only get nailed for GST etc... but customs charges you for charging you. it's a five doller CDN fee for customs doing their job. Bridget - still working hard.... - --- Bridget Greywolf, AoA2, OT Ar n-Eilean-ne ex patriot now residing in Drachenwald House Blackwood, daughter to Lord Cealian Of Moray MKA: Fiona Messer, Germany =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:29:39 -0400 From: "ailith" Subject: [scribes]: Schoyen Manuscript collection I mostly lurk on the list, but I had to share this with you all. Do go to his site http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/ and take a look at the picture section-- http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/picindexn.html There are thumbnails of manuscripts. Click on one and you'll get a description and the provenance as well as a larger pic of the MS. Click on the MS and you'll get an even larger view. Not all are within the SCA time frame, but they are incredible none the less. ailith The article: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020823/ap_wo_en_po /arts_norway_millionaire_s_treasure_2 ================================================================== Bus company owner builds collection of ancient manuscripts that would be any museum's envy Thu Aug 22,10:04 PM ET By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer OSLO, Norway - When Martin Schoyen was 15, he spotted some old books for sale at a Sunday market in Florence, Italy. The young Norwegian bought one, from 1592, for about 3 cents. So began a passion that, 47 years later, has resulted in one of the world's largest collections of ancient manuscripts, with an estimated value of up to 840 million kroner (dlrs 105 million). "It's the excitement of finding that these things exist," said the 62-year-old bus company owner, who added that everything was legally obtained. The collection of more than 12,500 pieces spans five millennia. It includes parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient Buddhist writing rescued from the Taliban, ancient symbols used by Australia's Aborigines and even a signet ring used by Egyptian King Tutankhamen. Schoyen is considering selling the collection, although he is not actively marketing it. If sold, all revenues would go into his Schoyen Human Rights Foundation to support free speech, human rights and development aid. Norway may be a potential buyer. However, the government has remained noncommittal amid a spirited debate over whether such a purchase would be appropriate. Proponents such as national librarian Bendik Rugaas say the government should leap at the chance, while skeptics like Sissel Nilsen, director of the National Library's Oslo division, question the nation's will to care for the treasures it already has. Egypt's Ambassador Nermine Mourad is among those who want proof that Schoyen's treasures are his to sell because "if any were obtained illegally, this has to be settled." Many researchers, however, are delighted by Schoyen's costly hobby, since everything is available for study and publication. Much also is on loan to institutions and museums. Schoyen, an engineer who built his fortune from an Oslo area bus company inherited from his father, is currently cruising the globe aboard The World, a new Norwegian-built luxury condominium ship on which he owns a vacation home. In an e-mail interview from the ship, he recalled the excitement of that first book, bought during a summer vacation with his parents. The 1592 work, "Manuale del Navarro," was interesting enough. But it was what Schoyen found inside the binding that really peaked his interest: a handwritten religious sermon in French from around 1300. Since then, he has systematically collected at auctions, through dealers and by bullheaded detective work. For example, obtaining fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls, the priceless Jewish history believed written between 250 B.C. and A.D. 70, seemed hopeless. The more than 15,000 documents, found in the 1940s and 1950s in a cave near Jericho on the West Bank, were held by institutions, with none < experts believed < in private hands. "Dead Sea Scrolls would be the ultimate challenge for a private collector," said Schoyen. "One had to think entirely different." Schoyen remembered that two American students, John C. Trever and William Brownlee, were the first Westerners to see, study and photograph the scrolls in 1947 and speculated that they may have received fragments from the owner < the Syrian orthodox archbishop Athanasius Samuel of St. Marks monastery in Jerusalem < as a token for their work. He tracked the men to California, where they had been professors at the School of Theology in Claremont. "Yes, they both got fragments as gifts, but mostly without any writing on them, and therefore they gladly parted with them at a modest price," Schoyen said, declining to give an amount. Infrared photography later revealed that some fragments did have writing, "including the world's oldest MS (manuscript) of the book of Daniel," Schoyen said. Schoyen also helped rescue ancient Buddhist writings in 1995 after the Taliban took power in Afghanistan ( news - web sites) and imposed a harsh form of Islam that included destroying relics of any other religion. The Buddhist scrolls < from the first to the seventh centuries < were found in central Afghanistan's Bamiyan province, in caves near towering Buddhist statures that the now-ousted Taliban blew up to the world's horror in 2001 as "un-Islamic" idols. Schoyen bought scrolls, mostly in fragments, smuggled out and funded a rescue effort for the rest under what he called "dramatic circumstances" without revealing the details. He lent the fragments, on palm leaves, bark and other materials, to Jens Braarvig, a specialist in Buddhist writings at the Academy of Science in Oslo, for study. "These are some of the oldest known Buddhist texts," said Braarvig. Researchers are piecing together about 10,000 fragments like a giant puzzle. Braarvig said the scrolls probably originated in India. The scope is staggering, with many claimed "firsts," such as the first manuscript with a writers' byline < a princess from Sumer who lived in about 2200 B.C.; the earliest written laws, from 2050 B.C.; and the first mention of music lessons, offered on 1900 B.C. Babylonian clay tablets for "five shekels for seven hours." A favorite piece? "Would you ask a mother which of her many children were closest to her heart?" Schoyen fired back over the Internet. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:48:57 -0400 From: Sally Burnell Subject: [scribes]: Baron Master (squared) Harold von Auerbach? Does anyone have an e-mail address for Baron Master Harold von Auerbach? The Barony of Stonemarche web page seems to be down, and I had his address, but it was on my other computer, which crashed last week, taking with it my entire address book, bookmarks, .jpg's and other stuff on my hard drive. Fortunately, I still have this ancient 486 as a backup, but there's so much it cannot do. And I haven't enough money to revive the Gateway. At least not to the price that the computer repair place is quoting me...........(sigh) Anyway, I need to contact him right away! Thanks! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:45:31 -0400 From: Sally Burnell Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees At 10:23 AM 08/27/2002 -0400, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: >Evil, evil woman. I had not been to buy.com before, because I don't have a >credit card and thought you needed one. Now I know you can pay by money >order...and they have Masterpieces of Illuminated Manuscripts from the JP >Getty Museum for 34.50 plus free shipping. I'm ordering it Friday. Oh, that book you mention above, the Masterpieces from the Getty is way cool! I have a copy myself! There are just so many books to own, and I have so little space here in my apartment, but hey, when did THAT ever stop me from buying more books? More to add to the already-growing-taller-by-the-day stack on the floor! ~Saradwen, book lover extraordinaire! Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:11:16 -0400 From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees There is NO such thing as too many books. Tain't possible. I just got an interesting one from evilBay last week. It's called Celtic Design: The Dragon and the Griffin, The Viking Impact. Cool pictures of some very early period Celtic stuff. Laurensa More > to add to the already-growing-taller-by-the-day stack on the floor! > > ~Saradwen, book lover extraordinaire! > Midrealm > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:24:07 -0400 From: Sally Burnell Subject: Re: [scribes]: Codices Illustrees At 08:11 PM 08/27/2002 -0400, Dianne and Greg Stucki wrote: >There is NO such thing as too many books. Tain't possible. Hehehe, yeah, that's why I have so darn many!! There's always ONE more book I just HAVE to have!! >I just got an interesting one from evilBay last week. It's called Celtic >Design: The Dragon and the Griffin, The Viking Impact. Cool pictures of some >very early period Celtic stuff. Oh, that's a great series of books! I've got a few of them myself. Highly recommended for doing Celtic stuff! They are so much better than the George Bain book on Celtic art. That series is by Aidan Meehan, so if any of you scribes out there are looking for good instructional books on Celtic art, I would highly recommend this series of books. They aren't expensive and they are really well done as far as the teaching methods in them are concerned. I STILL haven't worked up enough nerve, though, to try a fully realised Celtic scroll. I'm so stuck on Gothic....hard to get away from that! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:05:41 -0400 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Baron Master (squared) Harold von Auerbach? Replied privately. :) Chiara da Ravenna > Does anyone have an e-mail address for Baron Master Harold von Auerbach? > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:18:31 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: calligraphy in Phoebus' Book of the Hunt - --part1_94.2ba46104.2a9f8737_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe someone here can help me with a calligraphy dilemma :-} I've agreed to calligraph a 2 page illumination in progress. It is based on=20 Phoebus' Book of the Hunt. I don't have a full copy of the manuscript but I=20 do have _Medieval Hunting Scenes_. One of the pages I need to calligraph is=20 the first one shown in _Medieval Hunting Scenes_ (Gaston Phoebus surrounded= =20 by hunters.... fol. 13 ) which means I have what I need to calligraph that page, but th= e=20 second page is a bit different and it's the one that I don't have an exempla= r=20 for. The border work is similar to the first one, but the miniature is at th= e=20 bottom of the page. Can someone point me to an online graphic or give me a=20 written description of the layout of the calligraphy? What I'm mainly lookin= g=20 for is if it is all in plain text or if there are also versals, rubrication=20 or line fillers. I've already checked the link from The Biblioth=E8que Nationale de France's=20 website - The Age of King Charles V . All they show are the miniatures :-( Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Yvianne =20 - --part1_94.2ba46104.2a9f8737_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe someone here can help me with a calligraphy dilemma  := - -}

I've agreed to calligraph a 2 page illumination in progress. It is based on=20= Phoebus' Book of the Hunt. I don't have a full copy of the manuscript but I=20= do have _Medieval Hunting Scenes_. One of the pages I need to calligraph is=20= the first one shown in _Medieval Hunting Scenes_  (Gaston Phoebus surro= unded by hunters....
fol. 13 )     which means I have what I need to calligra= ph that page, but the second page is a bit different and it's the one that I= don't have an exemplar for. The border work is similar to the first one, bu= t the miniature is at the bottom of the page. Can someone point me to an onl= ine graphic or give me a written description of the layout of the calligraph= y? What I'm mainly looking for is if it is all in plain text or if there are= also versals, rubrication or line fillers.

I've already checked the link from The Biblioth=E8que N= ationale de France's website - The Age of King Charles V . All they show are= the miniatures  :-(

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Yvianne






 - --part1_94.2ba46104.2a9f8737_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #47 ****************************