From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #19 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, July 2 2002 Volume 08 : Number 019 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold [scribes]: Re:Color Query Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... [scribes]: ISO teachers for Stargate 30th, sept 14, 2002 Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold [scribes]: Aquapasto Question [scribes]: Gutenberg Bible Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold [scribes]: re: hemophiliac paper RE: [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question Re: [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question [scribes]: Pennsic Scribal Gathering Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 15:41:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... I've had my share of struggles with loose gold leaf (for instance, I can never seem to cut it with a knife, no matter how brand-spanking-new the blade). So I want to try patent gold leaf, but I don't know where to buy it from. I found a website, www.misterart.com, that seems to have the best prices on gold leaf, by a fairly large margin. In fact, their prices seem almost too good to be true (~$25 for a book of 23K leaf), so I was wondering, has anyone on this list had experience with them? Are there better sources out there? Should I just try my luck with them and report back on my findings (i.e. the guinea pig method)? ;) Speaking of sources, I've been stuggling with various homemade burnishers (using malachite beads and such), but I think I really need an agate burnisher. What's the best place to get one from, and what size/shape? - --Your fellow scribal-supplies addict (I bought a bottle of ox gall loooong before I knew what to use it for. Same with my gum arabic.) Martha Pennsic-on-the-mind in Darach, Caid __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:13:37 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold susanart@bellsouth.net wrote: > > This stuff is making me nuts! Can you give me any tips to make it easier? Yes. Use patent leaf. Seriously. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:34:32 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Color Query - --part1_185.a6b3a73.2a524108_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2002 1:09:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, excalibr@gatewest.net writes: > What color of green most closely resembles verdigris? > The color of verdigris varies greatly. Sinopia used to make verdigris, malachite and one other period pigment.. that I can't recall right now.... in tube paint. If I am using W&N gouache tube paints instead of hand ground pigment and I want to mix something up to resemble verdigris, here is what I use .... for light verdigris equal parts brilliant green + zinc white ... and add a touch of ultramarine for a darker color windsor green + varying amounts of zinc white (depending on how dark I want it) Many manufacturers of period pigments have color sample sheets available - some are free, some charge a fee. Make sure when you request them that you ask for hand painted ones. If you know a scribe who works in period pigments you may consider asking them if they could make up a sample sheet for you. It's really nice to have one as a handy reference guide. Best of luck Yvianne AEthelmearc - --part1_185.a6b3a73.2a524108_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2002 1:09:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, excalibr@gatewest.net writes:


What color of green most closely resembles verdigris?

The color of verdigris varies greatly.

Sinopia used to make verdigris, malachite and one other period pigment.. that I can't recall right now.... in tube paint.

If I am using W&N gouache tube paints instead of hand ground pigment and I want to mix something up to resemble verdigris, here is what I use  ....

for light verdigris
equal parts brilliant green + zinc white ... and add a touch of ultramarine

for a darker color
windsor green + varying amounts of zinc white (depending on how dark I want it)

Many manufacturers of period pigments have color sample sheets available - some are free, some charge a fee. Make sure when you request them that you ask for hand painted ones. If you know a scribe who works in period pigments you may consider asking them if they could make up a sample sheet for you. It's really nice to have one as a handy reference guide.

Best of luck

Yvianne
AEthelmearc - --part1_185.a6b3a73.2a524108_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:51:04 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Hi Martha, > Speaking of sources, I've been stuggling with various homemade burnishers > (using malachite beads and such), but I think I really need an agate burnisher. > What's the best place to get one from, and what size/shape? Malachite is a copper carbonate mineral; and as such it is -very- soft... Common house dust (or even Ultramarine pigment - which is composed of the mineral "Lazurite") is hard enough to scratch it! I wouldn't recommend using a Malachite bead as a burnisher. You'll go crazy trying to maintain the polish on the stone. (There are enough other ways to go crazy as a Scribe...so I doubt you need an alternative.) You are right! Agate is a good choice for burnishing! Gilding supply houses (think "Framing supplies" - not "Art supplies") often stock Agate burnishers. They are definitely worth the investment. One source which I recall offhand is http://www.easyleaf.com . Some day, after you've done enough gilding to develop a strong preference for a particular size and shape, you might want to commission a custom tip. (I'm sure that you can find an SCA Lapidary who would be willing to cut the stone.) :-) YIS, Peter Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern Lapidary and Scribal Arts Barony of The Rhyderrich Hael Aethelmearc (Buffalo, NY, USA) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 20:17:10 -0500 From: "lisabetta" Subject: [scribes]: ISO teachers for Stargate 30th, sept 14, 2002 Greetings all, I have arranged space at Stargate 30th Baronial for a scribe table. I would like to find two or three people interested in teaching a brief class. If you are interested please contact me my email is lisabetta@ansteorra.net. Thank you Lisabetta micola da Monte =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:21:30 -0800 From: "Tammy L. Williams" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Perhaps it is hematite beads you are thinking of? They are used as "hot" burnishers as compared to agate which is a "cold" (doesn't heat up as you rub it back and forth across athe area you are illuminating) burnisher. HL Cystennin has taken medium size hematite beads and attached them I think by a pin to about a six inch length of wood and used these to burnish with. Tam - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter B. Steiner" To: Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... > Hi Martha, > > > Speaking of sources, I've been stuggling with various homemade burnishers > > (using malachite beads and such), but I think I really need an agate burnisher. > > What's the best place to get one from, and what size/shape? > > Malachite is a copper carbonate mineral; and as such it is -very- soft... > Common house dust (or even Ultramarine pigment - which is composed of the mineral > "Lazurite") is hard enough to scratch it! I wouldn't recommend using a Malachite > bead as a burnisher. You'll go crazy trying to maintain the polish on the stone. > (There are enough other ways to go crazy as a Scribe...so I doubt you need an > alternative.) > > You are right! Agate is a good choice for burnishing! Gilding supply houses > (think "Framing supplies" - not "Art supplies") often stock Agate burnishers. > They are definitely worth the investment. One source which I recall offhand is > http://www.easyleaf.com . > > Some day, after you've done enough gilding to develop a strong preference for a > particular size and shape, you might want to commission a custom tip. (I'm sure > that you can find an SCA Lapidary who would be willing to cut the stone.) :-) > > YIS, > Peter > > > Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern > Lapidary and Scribal Arts > Barony of The Rhyderrich Hael > Aethelmearc (Buffalo, NY, USA) > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 00:24:26 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Hi Tammy, Your point is well taken! Martha may have been thinking of Hematite rather than Malachite. One of the varieties of Hematite (single crystal habit) can be formed into excellent burnishing tools! Hematite is an oxide of iron; and it is hard enough to take a polish which stands up to ordinary use. Many gilders (particularly those who gild on paper) swear by their Hematite burnishers. Agate is the more popular stone with frame, monument and statue gilders - for the simple reason that, unlike Hematite, Agate is not easily scratched by everyday dust. This is a less important consideration (though not one to be ignored) when one is gilding under controlled conditions. Cennini suggests, in -The Craftsman's Handbook-, that harder stones (such as Topaz, Ruby, Balas-Ruby and Emerald) were used in Period to make the most valued burnishers. I've never seen a Period example; though it isn't difficult to imagine why... Those burnishers were probably cut into gemstones by whoever inherited them. Peter "Tammy L. Williams" wrote: > > Perhaps it is hematite beads you are thinking of? They are used as "hot" > burnishers as compared to agate which is a "cold" (doesn't heat up as you > rub it back and forth across athe area you are illuminating) burnisher. > > HL Cystennin has taken medium size hematite beads and attached them I think > by a pin to about a six inch length of wood and used these to burnish with. > > Tam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter B. Steiner" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... > > > Hi Martha, > > > > > Speaking of sources, I've been stuggling with various homemade > burnishers > > > (using malachite beads and such), but I think I really need an agate > burnisher. > > > What's the best place to get one from, and what size/shape? > > > > Malachite is a copper carbonate mineral; and as such it is -very- soft... > > Common house dust (or even Ultramarine pigment - which is composed of the > mineral > > "Lazurite") is hard enough to scratch it! I wouldn't recommend using a > Malachite > > bead as a burnisher. You'll go crazy trying to maintain the polish on the > stone. > > (There are enough other ways to go crazy as a Scribe...so I doubt you need > an > > alternative.) > > > > You are right! Agate is a good choice for burnishing! Gilding supply > houses > > (think "Framing supplies" - not "Art supplies") often stock Agate > burnishers. > > They are definitely worth the investment. One source which I recall > offhand is > > http://www.easyleaf.com . > > > > Some day, after you've done enough gilding to develop a strong preference > for a > > particular size and shape, you might want to commission a custom tip. > (I'm sure > > that you can find an SCA Lapidary who would be willing to cut the stone.) > :-) > > > > YIS, > > Peter > > > > > > Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern > > Lapidary and Scribal Arts > > Barony of The Rhyderrich Hael > > Aethelmearc (Buffalo, NY, USA) > > =================================================================== > > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > > with a blank Subject: line and > > unsubscribe scribes > > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... > Your point is well taken! Martha may have been thinking of Hematite rather > than Malachite. Yeah yeah yeah, I kind of suspected I wrote the wrong word as soon as I sent off the message, but I was at work and in a hurry... anyway. (My problem with the shiny bead method is I've yet to find a reliable method of attaching it to a handle.) In any case, the main thrust of my question was, is www.misterart.com a website that anyone has any experience with? Are they reliable? Or is that gold leaf price really too good to be true? --To put it more simply, where did you buy your last batch of gold leaf, what brand/karat/weight/type, and how much was it? (And for the burnisher, yeah, I know easyleaf has them. A whole bunch of different kinds in fact, in a dizzying variety of shapes and sizes. It's hard to tell sizes on the picture they give, and there aren't any descriptions of what shape is used for what. So, details please?) Martha (To whom black hematite and green malachite are apparently one and the same) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 02:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Anna Troy Subject: Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold Apparently you're supposed to gently blow on it to get it smooth again if it wrinkles but it takes practice. Also you can, if I remeber correctly, use just a touch of vaseline on the brush to get the gold to stick better. Just a little vaseline on the side of your hand and a gentle dip of the brush, and then whe're talking paintbrush shape. Anna de Byxe ===== "So many books, so little time." "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:40:25 -0400 From: "Klaus and Mea" Subject: [scribes]: Aquapasto Question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C2219B.BA957640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, Another silly question : ) Sunday at our scriptorium, one of the women had a tube of = "aquapasto" and on the back the label it said "a thickener for water = color and gouache paints. gum arabic/silica" =20 I have liquid, and powder form of gum arabic, so I assumed this was = just another form of gum arabic, now I'm wondering if this is it = something different? We tried the same color period pigment in it, and in the powder, and the = pigment used with aquapasto stayed kind of "gooie". The color wasn't = any different between the powder and tube. Can you tell us what this is? I am now thinking it is not another for = of gum arabic at all, but Im not sure. Thanks! Mea : ) =C6thelmearc - ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C2219B.BA957640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings,
    Another silly question : = )
    Sunday at our = scriptorium, one of=20 the women had  a tube of "aquapasto" and on the back the label = it=20 said "a thickener for water color and gouache paints. gum=20 arabic/silica" 
 I have liquid, and powder form of gum = arabic, so=20 I assumed this was just another form of gum arabic, now I'm = wondering if=20 this is it something different?
We tried the same color period pigment = in it,=20 and in the powder, and the pigment used with aquapasto stayed kind of=20 "gooie".  The color wasn't any different between the powder and=20 tube.
Can you tell us what this is?  I am now = thinking it=20 is not  another for of gum arabic at all, but Im not=20 sure.
 
Thanks!
Mea :=20 )
=C6thelmearc
- ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C2219B.BA957640-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 08:36:51 -0500 From: Nancy Wederstrandt Subject: [scribes]: Gutenberg Bible Hi! Besides mostly lurking I also work at the University of Texas in Austin and I discovered that they are getting ready to digitize the entire Gutenberg bible and put it online. UT owns one of five complete Gutenbergs.... Here is the web site that talks about the Bible. http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/permanent/gutenberg/ I think the info is listed under news. Clare Ansteorra =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:21:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Booth Subject: Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold I haven't had all that much experience with real gold leaf, but the comment I've "heard" over and over again on this list is that you must *not* have any oils on the knife used to cut the gold leaf. Wouldn't this instruction transfer over to the brush as well? From what I've read, it seems that static electricity and the brush should be sufficient for enabling you to pick up the gold leaf. This technique has been successful for me (in my limited experience). - -- Suzanne HL Suzanne de la Ferté Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra - --- Anna Troy wrote: > Apparently you're supposed to gently blow on it to get > it smooth again if it wrinkles but it takes practice. > Also you can, if I remeber correctly, use just a touch > of vaseline on the brush to get the gold to stick > better. Just a little vaseline on the side of your > hand and a gentle dip of the brush, and then whe're > talking paintbrush shape. > > Anna de Byxe > > > ===== > "So many books, so little time." > > "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: > http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:35:56 -0800 From: hdorsett@alaska.net Subject: [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question I have a project to complete on paper that bleeds incredibly. My first choice would be to substitute a better paper, but I don't have that option in this case. Are there any types of ink that are [_much_] less prone to bleeding than others, or is there anything I can use to treat the paper so it will be less absorbent? Helena Ochastka Barony of Winter's Gate, West Fairbanks, Alaska =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:07:56 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... Martha Palotay wrote: > > (And for the burnisher, yeah, I know easyleaf has them. A whole bunch of > different kinds in fact, in a dizzying variety of shapes and sizes. It's hard > to tell sizes on the picture they give, and there aren't any descriptions of > what shape is used for what. So, details please?) Another option is to go down to The Nature Company or some similar store and buy a chunk of polished hematite, or some other not terribly porous stone, and use that for a burnisher. The cost differential is amazing. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 11:13:31 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold Suzanne Booth wrote: > > From what I've read, it seems that static electricity and the brush should be > sufficient for enabling you to pick up the gold leaf. This technique has been > successful for me (in my limited experience). I would never put vaseline anywhere near gold leaf. If you want it to stick, breath on the brush right before touching it to the gold. Don't blow on the brush, breath the moist air from deep in your lungs onto the brush. That will keep the gold stuck long enough to transfer it. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 11:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Allen Freeman Subject: [scribes]: re: hemophiliac paper have you considered deviating from inks entirely and using watercolor or goache that's been sufficiently thinned? - -phaedrus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:02:54 -0400 From: ESTAVASH@cs.com Subject: RE: [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question I've tried higgins eternal, diluted gouache, chinese stick ink, speedball acrylic, another acrylic (the name of which I've forgotten), and iron/oak gall ink. The only one that never seems to bleed at all is the iron gall ink. (Mine is an English ink that I bought from Paper and Ink Arts, but I understand that all of them have good surface tension, which reduces bleeding.) There are lots of inks I haven't tried though, so there might be better options I haven't found yet. You might also try dusting your paper with gum sandarac-- I've only just started playing with it, so I'm not sure how much it would help with paper that bleeds really badly. Good luck, Ellen hdorsett@alaska.net wrote: >I have a project to complete on paper that bleeds incredibly.  My first >choice would be to substitute a better paper, but I don't have that >option in this case.  Are there any types of ink that are [_much_] less >prone to bleeding than others, or is there anything I can use to treat >the paper so it will be less absorbent? > >Helena Ochastka >Barony of Winter's Gate, West >Fairbanks, Alaska > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:10:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hemophiliac paper question Usually, I find that acrylic inks don't bleed as much, especially if they're older and have thickened up a bit. Of course, this same thickening can make them awful to work with. I've also heard (but not experienced in practice) that working on a slanted surface can help. You can also try pouncing the paper (with gum sandarac or whatever else you have for pouncing vellum). HTH, Martha P.S. I love your choice of adjectives-- "hemophiliac paper" indeed! :D - --- hdorsett@alaska.net wrote: > I have a project to complete on paper that bleeds incredibly. My first > choice would be to substitute a better paper, but I don't have that > option in this case. Are there any types of ink that are [_much_] less > prone to bleeding than others, or is there anything I can use to treat > the paper so it will be less absorbent? > > Helena Ochastka > Barony of Winter's Gate, West > Fairbanks, Alaska __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:30:49 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: Pennsic Scribal Gathering The Known World Scribal Tea at Pennsic this year will be held on Wednesday, August 14th from 10am until 12 noon. By the Grace, Kindness and Generosity of Her Majesty, Alys, Queen of the Middle Kingdom, the Tea will be taking place in the Midrealm Royal Encampment. This information will be available at Information Point in the A&S section of that tent as well as being posted here. I will repost the announcement closer to Pennsic, lest anyone forget! Please bring your portfolios, works in progress and questions! Sharing of knowledge and experience is encouraged, as well as sharing of visual beauty (your works! *grin*). There will be more space allowed this year for portfolios than last year. There will be some refreshments available as well. (no lunch, but something to munch on away from the pretties). Please come and bring those you know who are interested in the scribal arts. All levels are heartily welcome and encouraged to attend. If you have questions or would like to help set up, please contact me directly. Cu Drag, Smiles, Despina de la Brasov (organizer for the Known World Scribal Pennsic Tea) - ---------- Work Home/SCA Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil Domina Despina de la Brasov Program Coordinator 308 West John St 222c Bevier Champaign, IL 61820 905 S. Goodwin Ave Midlands, Middle Kingdom Urbana, IL 61801 aheilvei@uiuc.edu aheilvei@uiuc.edu http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~aheilvei/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:09:16 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Speaking of gold leaf... - --part1_1a8.48400cb.2a538c9c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/2/2002 4:10:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mpalotay@yahoo.com writes: > > In any case, the main thrust of my question was, is www.misterart.com a > website > that anyone has any experience with? Are they reliable? Or is that gold leaf > price really too good to be true? --To put it more simply, where did you buy > your last batch of gold leaf, what brand/karat/weight/type, and how much was > it? > I got my gold leaf from Master John at Pennsic. I got the patent gold leaf from the Sisters of St. Gabriel at Pennsic. Both of them have web sites and do mail orders. I think the Sisters are on this list as well. One of the things that really helps with real gold leaf (the loose kind) is a gilding cushion. This holds the gold in place while you are working it. You carefully place a page of the gold on your cushion and the gold will stick to the suade but not STICK to the suade - meaning it comes loose easily, but he suade holds it well enough to keep it from wrinkling and blowing away. Once there you can cut it into the size you need and carefully place it on your gesso with a pair of tweezers. The most problems I have are it wrapping around the tweezers before I get it to the gesso. The good thing is that even if you get wrinkles in it, all you have to do is burnish it and the wrinkles meld back into the gold making them dissapear. Gilding cushions are just a piece of wood (6"x6") with a bit of quilt batting on top covered with very soft suade leather. Decorate them with a bit of leftover trim from your garment around the side of the board. I like the patent gold when I am in a hurry or when I am doing gilding at an event or demo - particularly outside where there is any kind of breeze at all. It is easier to work with, but you don't get quite as smooth a coverage as with the leaf. (Patent gold is gold leaf that is stuck to one side of the shipping paper. You rub it onto the gesso and only the areas where it is touching gesso are removed from the shipping paper. I think of it as "rub-on gold"). I have a harder time with jagged edges with the patent gold and I don't think it shines up quite as nicely as the leaf - but it is close. As to price, I paid $12.00 for my packet of real 24K extra Weight gold leaf from Master John. It has10 pages, but they are not as big as other sources. It was $8.00 for the Regular Weight 23 K gold. Still, it was a good price for quality, hand-rolled gold. The patent gold runs about $25.00 to $28.00 for a 25 page packet of real 22 K patent gold. These pages are fairly large (about 4"x4" I think). I wouldn't go any higher than $30.00 for a 25 page package unless the pages were really large. However, the prices flucuate with the current cost of gold at the time the merchant purchased the gold. Brandy - --part1_1a8.48400cb.2a538c9c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/2/2002 4:10:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mpalotay@yahoo.com writes:



In any case, the main thrust of my question was, is www.misterart.com a website
that anyone has any experience with? Are they reliable? Or is that gold leaf
price really too good to be true? --To put it more simply, where did you buy
your last batch of gold leaf, what brand/karat/weight/type, and how much was
it?


I got my gold leaf from Master John at Pennsic. I got the patent gold leaf from the Sisters of St. Gabriel at Pennsic. Both of them have web sites and do mail orders. I think the Sisters are on this list as well.

One of the things that really helps with real gold leaf (the loose kind) is a gilding cushion. This holds the gold in place while you are working it. You carefully place a page of the gold on your cushion and the gold will stick to the suade but not STICK to the suade - meaning it comes loose easily, but he suade holds it well enough to keep it from wrinkling and blowing away. Once there you can cut it into the size you need and carefully place it on your gesso with a pair of tweezers. The most problems I have are it wrapping around the tweezers before I get it to the gesso. The good thing is that even if you get wrinkles in it, all you have to do is burnish it and the wrinkles meld back into the gold making them dissapear. Gilding cushions are just a piece of wood (6"x6") with a bit of quilt batting on top covered with very soft suade leather. Decorate them with a bit of leftover trim from your garment around the side of the board.

I like the patent gold when I am in a hurry or when I am doing gilding at an event or demo - particularly outside where there is any kind of breeze at all. It is easier to work with, but you don't get quite as smooth a coverage as with the leaf. (Patent gold is gold leaf that is stuck to one side of the shipping paper. You rub it onto the gesso and only the areas where it is touching gesso are removed from the shipping paper. I think of it as "rub-on gold"). I have a harder time with jagged edges with the patent gold and I don't think it shines up quite as nicely as the leaf - but it is close.

As to price, I paid $12.00 for my packet of real 24K extra Weight gold leaf from Master John. It has10 pages, but they are not as big as other sources. It was $8.00 for the Regular Weight 23 K gold. Still, it was a good price for quality, hand-rolled gold. The patent gold runs about $25.00 to $28.00 for a 25 page packet of real 22 K patent gold. These pages are fairly large (about 4"x4" I think). I wouldn't go any higher than $30.00 for a 25 page package unless the pages were really large. However, the prices flucuate with the current cost of gold at the time the merchant purchased the gold.

Brandy - --part1_1a8.48400cb.2a538c9c_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:24:26 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: loose leaf gold - --part1_e5.1a34684e.2a53902a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2002 4:10:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kara_westfall@hotmail.com writes: > To move them, you can use any soft, clean brush, doensn't have to be sable, > but > natural bristles are best, and either get static from your hair, or brush > it gently on > your face or nose, to pick up just a touch of oil, then pick up the gold. > This has > worked well for me, YMMV. > I move mine with a clean pair of tweezers. I grab the corner, hold my breath, and hold the gilding cushion right over the area I want the gold to be on. I then gently pull the piece of gold (pre-cut, or pulled by the tweezers) off the cushion and down onto the gesso. I do get a few wrinkles, but not too many, unless there is a breeze around. The air needs to be pretty still for this to work. You also have to learn to let the air puff up the gold as you are pulling it towards the gesso. This takes a bit of practice to get the right speed so the gesso stays flat on the cushion of air and doesn't bunch up around your tweezers. I have the most problems on really humid days (which are quite frequent over here in Marinus next to the sea) The loose gold will drive you nuts, and patent gold is easier, but I still think you get the best-looking gold with the real loose gold leaf. So, what you have to decide is whether it is worth the extra hassle for you. Brandy - --part1_e5.1a34684e.2a53902a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2002 4:10:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kara_westfall@hotmail.com writes:


To move them, you can use any soft, clean brush, doensn't have to be sable, but
natural bristles are best, and either get static from your hair, or brush it gently on
your face or nose, to pick up just a touch of oil, then pick up the gold. This has
worked well for me, YMMV.


I move mine with a clean pair of tweezers. I grab the corner, hold my breath, and hold the gilding cushion right over the area I want the gold to be on. I then gently pull the piece of gold (pre-cut, or pulled by the tweezers) off the cushion and down onto the gesso. I do get a few wrinkles, but not too many, unless there is a breeze around. The air needs to be pretty still for this to work. You also have to learn to let the air puff up the gold as you are pulling it towards the gesso. This takes a bit of practice to get the right speed so the gesso stays flat on the cushion of air and doesn't bunch up around your tweezers. I have the most problems on really humid days (which are quite frequent over here in Marinus next to the sea)

The loose gold will drive you nuts, and patent gold is easier, but I still think you get the best-looking gold with the real loose gold leaf. So, what you have to decide is whether it is worth the extra hassle for you.

Brandy - --part1_e5.1a34684e.2a53902a_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #19 ****************************