From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #16 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, June 30 2002 Volume 08 : Number 016 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Marketing Strategy Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess [scribes]: Pennsic was: Marketing Strategy [scribes]: re: Paint Graininess [scribes]: Fw: [STEPS] 15th cent medical textbook Re: [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess [scribes]: forwarded auto-bounced email to scribes lit Re: [scribes]:volunteered to host scribal night...(long) Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 18:23:48 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Marketing Strategy > Renaissance Faires are another good forum in which to > market Period C&I. I've seen scribal work sell at > professional Ren Faires for prices that would shock > most SCAdians! Yes, that's true. But does the average Ren Faire attending public have an appreciation of what we do and why it is so costly? Would a Ren Faire attendee be willing to shell out, say, $500 for a hand done scroll? > This sort of shock has the potential to effect great good. To the public, yes. To the average SCAdian? I don't know. > I daresay that, while the average Scribe has -no- desire > to charge $500.00 for an award Scroll, she has a -strong- > desire to see her work -treated- as a $500.00 work of Art. Oh, absolutely true. When you see your hard work tossed carelessly into a feast basket or an armour bag, or in my case, scrunched up into a pouch, it's enough to make you wonder what people are thinking these things are. It's not as if we're still doing magic markered scrolls on typing paper, as was done in years past. We're creating original works of art, done, in some cases, with real gold and period pigments and costly papers and parchments. So yes, you bet I would like to see my work treated with the utmost respect it deserves. However, one really good thing has happened recently here in the Midrealm in that lovely scroll cases were donated at Coronation by a local Household, so that scrolls could be gotten home safely and carefully by recipients, then returned to the nearest herald or scribe to return to the Crown. This has added a new measure of respect for our work, since the recipients get a nice carrier to take the work home in so that it doesn't get tossed into a feast basket or an armour bag. I hope more are made and donated to the Crown for such a purpose! > Does anyone disagree with my last statement? Won't find any from me! > Respect follows Understanding. Understanding (in 21st Century > America) follows the bottom line. I don't -like- that fact; > but the fact will not go away simply because I (or we as a Guild, > we as a class of artisans, we as individuals) choose to deny it. > SCA Scribes have been denying this fact for a very long time - while > at the same time complaining about the consequences of our denial. Well, here's a suggestion, Peter. I think one thing we scribes need to do is to increase the awareness of what we do and how we do it. And to that end, I would propose that we do more outreach, more classes, in other words, that would teach folks how we do this stuff. If they could see first hand how it's done, they are bound to increase their respect for our craft. One thing I never see enough of at events is scribal classes. We need more, if nothing else than to train more scribes, but also to heighten awareness of this craft and what it is all about. I think we often labour in silent anonymity and to many folks out there, we're not well known (unless we're wearing our Royal Scribal Favours that the Midrealm Crown gives to all scribes who donate scrolls to the Kingdom. I've faithfully worn mine now for the past two years on my belt). I don't know many of you outside the Midrealm by face (I bet we pass each other at Pennsic and have no idea who we are!), except we do meet at Pennsic if we have that Scribal Tea (are we going to have that again this year, I hope?). So we may know each other in our little scribal community, but outside our little knot of scribes, how many others know that we're the ones who make their Kingdom's scrolls? Perhaps making ourselves better known to those around us will increase awareness of what we do, too. Well, anyway, these are just some ramblings, some ideas thrown out upon the waters! I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of you think about heightening awareness of our craft! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 18:36:44 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint GraininessHow would these Talens and Pebeo paints compare to, say, Windsor and Newton? I can't say that I have ever heard of those brands, but I am always open to new materials! And no, there's no 12 step program..................not yet, anyway. "Hi, I'm Saradwen A. and I am a scribal addict............." Crowd in room: "Hi, Saradwen!" =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 20:11:43 -0700 From: "Mary Edenfield" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess >> Alizarin is a coal tar derivative. It's the height of > 19th century science! It's very pretty stuff, but it > isn't anything like a period pigment. synthetic alizarin is a good substitute for the color once made from [mmmok shoot me now, it's either madder root or kermes!}. and is perhaps more lightfast than the original color. I'm not sure, I haven't made the period style one and tested it {YET!} Mairi, Atenveldt Mary Edenfield www.canyonkeep.com period pigments, natural dyes, books =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:06:56 -0500 From: "Dawn" Subject: Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess I haven't used the W&N, so it's hard to compare. However, I suspect the W&N is probably closer to the Holbein (the prices certainly would indicate the quality would be better than the others, anyway). I bought a set of Talens as my first gouache, so I've primarily tried to use those up so they don't dry up on me. I bought a HUGE amount of Pebeo one day as there was a sale - just about everything for 2.18 to 3.00 a tube. I will say that I love the Pebeo silver gouache - it's super shiny and smooths out very nice with a flat brush. I just bought W&N gold and silver gouache, and I like them too. I've been using an Italian powdered gold for some time now - I found it at my local art supply store and one would only get me to abandon it by prying it out of my cold dead hands ;-) It's called Maimeri - there is a website at www.amazingartsupplies.com that carries some of their products, but I didn't see any of the metallic powders there. Just out of curiosity, I emailed them to ask if they were available. I'll let you know if I get a response. Madeleine - ---------- >From: "Sally Burnell" >To: "Dawn" , >Subject: Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess >Date: Fri, Jun 28, 2002, 5:36 PM > > Re: red as Re: [scribes]: Paint GraininessHow would these Talens and Pebeo > paints compare to, say, Windsor and Newton? I can't say that I have ever > heard of those brands, but I am always open to new materials! > > And no, there's no 12 step program..................not yet, anyway. > > "Hi, I'm Saradwen A. and I am a scribal addict............." > > Crowd in room: "Hi, Saradwen!" > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:17:49 -0500 (CDT) From: hornburg amy lynn Subject: [scribes]: Pennsic was: Marketing Strategy at Pennsic if we have that Scribal Tea (are we going to have that again this year, I hope?) Yes, there will be a scribal tea at Pennsic, as announced a month or so ago. Time and date are dependant on HRM Alys' schedule, as she has graciously allowed us to gather in Midrealm Royal Encampment. I will let the list know as soon as I do time and date for it. If you arrive at Pennsic and have not yet heard, check at the A&S tent at information point, they will know. Smiles, Despina de la running it again =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:37:32 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: [scribes]: re: Paint Graininess Lady Mairi, I don't know why, but the -natural- alizarin colour (Madder root...you're right!) appears to be more lightfast than the synthetic. (So many folks have repeated this claim - including the colourmen at W&N - that I have little reason to doubt it.) The synthetic and natural alizarin colours, in pure form, are identical to one another. My best guess (and it's only a guess) is that Madder root extract contains a chemical (perhaps more than one) which protects the Madder plant from UV radiation. Peter Mary Edenfield wrote: > > >> Alizarin is a coal tar derivative. It's the height of > > 19th century science! It's very pretty stuff, but it > > isn't anything like a period pigment. > > synthetic alizarin is a good substitute for the color once made from [mmmok > shoot me now, it's either madder root or kermes!}. and is perhaps more > lightfast than the original color. I'm not sure, I haven't made the period > style one and tested it {YET!} > Mairi, Atenveldt > > Mary Edenfield > www.canyonkeep.com > period pigments, natural dyes, books > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 00:24:51 -0700 From: ren.touch@juno.com Subject: [scribes]: Fw: [STEPS] 15th cent medical textbook Greetings I can not look but it sounded interesting . JF To: steps@antir.sca.org, northern@antir.sca.org http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020626/6/nazm.html Medical research charity buys 15th-century physician's handbook LONDON (AP) - A 15th-century physician's handbook that shows how much medieval doctors relied on astrology has been bought by a charity, which will make it available to the public for the first time, officials said Wednesday. The government had imposed a temporary ban on the export of the handbook in hopes that a British buyer would come forward to prevent the valuable manuscript possibly being sold abroad. The London-based Wellcome Trust, a medical research charity, said Wednesday it had paid the equivalent of $485,000 for the handbook, taking it out of private hands for the first time in its history. "This acquisition is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and the first time the public will have access to this manuscript," said Dr. Richard Aspin of the Wellcome Trust library. "Its appeal not only lies in its rarity, but in the remarkable and clear insight provided into the practice of a medieval physician." The 200-page illustrated manuscript, written in archaic English in 1454, demonstrates how medieval physicians relied on astrology. It is filled with astrological tables and calendars used to calculate the best time to administer medical treatments according to a patient's date of birth. The handbook, measuring 20 centimetres by 13 centimetres and liberally decorated with gold leaf, is believed to have been written for a physician in the eastern English city of Lincoln. "It is intriguing that so much effort and money has gone into producing what is essentially a doctor's manual, but we know that medieval medicine could be a lucrative business," said Aspin. The book also includes an account of how to make a pilgrimage from London to the holy city of Jerusalem, offering an insight into 15th-century travel. The book was sold by a dealer in rare books who had been planning to sell the book abroad until the government imposed the export ban. The Wellcome Trust, an independent charity set up to promote research into human and animal health, bought the handbook with the help of a $23,000 grant from the government. It can be viewed at the trust's library in central London. - - On the Net: Wellcome Trust: wellcome.ac.uk - -------------------- << "steps@antir.sca.org" >> -------------------- The Cathedral Steps - Kingdom of An Tir email list To unsubscribe, e-mail: steps-unsubscribe@antir.sca.org For additional commands, e-mail: steps-help@antir.sca.org --=-- Please behave yourself: http://www.antir.sca.org/Steps/guide.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:34:13 +0930 From: "Kat" Subject: Re: [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? I think I am a little to one side of the middle. I am researching, trying to find period forms (can't afford to do all of the period materials though) and trying to find 'different' things to illuminate and calligraphy. Not the bog-standard fare...... IT is fun and gives enjoyment. The fact that it serves I think is an added bonus also. Katerina. Innilgard. > For me there is a element of breaking the "this cannot be done" rule. In the > end though it is for service as well but not until I have met the challenge > and promoted the art. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:43:21 +0930 From: "Kat" Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone > Instead of having each scribe wander out into the art > market alone and have them struggle to market > themselves, why not form consortiums That is an idea but.... . Why not market the scriptorium > as a whole, then farm work out to the scribes whose > talents match the project contracted? I think it would be much less work and easier to allow each scribe to organise their own fee and take projects they wish to take, rather than being given something they can do but may not have their heart in it..... It is getting a lot like a big business and I am happy to take commissions but on my own terms..... I like the idea of having a site or consortium where my protfolio is on view or things for sale but would not appreciate being farmed out work. I want to charge what I want and accept what I want..... . Ebay is a powerful > tool these days for putting sellers in touch with > buyers. A web site geared towards the same goal would > be easy to acomplish and would require a minimum of > upkeep once running. This though I think is workable if someone is willing to keep it upto date etc. Katerina. Innilgard my 2 bits worth also...... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:27:12 -0800 From: Heather Dorsett Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone Kat wrote: > . Why not market the scriptorium > > as a whole, then farm work out to the scribes whose > > talents match the project contracted? > > I think it would be much less work and easier to allow each scribe to > organise their own fee and take projects they wish to take, rather than > being given something they can do but may not have their heart in it..... > It is getting a lot like a big business and I am happy to take commissions > but on my own terms..... > I like the idea of having a site or consortium where my protfolio is on view > or things for sale but would not appreciate being farmed out work. I want to > charge what I want and accept what I want..... I don't think the idea was to *require* any particular scribe to accept any particular assignment. That's what day jobs are for.... The advantage of the scriptorium would be that someone else might be asked about commissioning a piece of work that is right up your alley, that you'd never hear about on your own, and the scriptorium would route the *opportunity* to you. If you didn't have time/interest/whatever, then it would get routed to the next scribe interested in that particular style. Likewise, when people asked you about doing work that you didn't particularly want to take on yourself, you'd put them in touch with the scriptorium, which would give another scribe a crack at that work (and the customer a chance to actually get whatever it is they're looking for). In short: The people interested in commissioning scribework get what they want, even if it's not what their local scribes happen to do best...we scribes hear about more opportunities to do the types of pieces we each enjoy...no one scribe gets burned out. Everybody wins! (But pity the poor schmuck who has to coordinate it all.) Helena Ochastka Barony of Winter's Gate, West (Fairbanks, Alaska) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:41:16 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint Graininess Marti asked: >But this brings up a question for anyone who has done white vine: what specific colors/paints/pigments do you use for the red/pink areas? I mix the alizarin with zinc white and a touch of spectrum yellow, trying to keep in mind that most reds dry darker than they look when wet. I usually use vermillion or cadmium red hue, with a little white added to the former as the stuff I have starts as a very deep red; I save the darkest shade for outlining. My alizarian is essentially the same color as madder (rose), not a crimson, so I leave it for early period stuff. (Alazarian seems to be used as an inexpensive base for many kinds of red). RE some asides on the previous part of this thread: I don't go to a lot of fuss over Alizarian: I use the tube guoach paint, and when I rework it (and a couple of other colors) up after they have dried in the dish, they get the graininess described earlier. I didn't know we were having a discussion about powder piments at all... Enid =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 09:50:38 -0700 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: forwarded auto-bounced email to scribes lit It was bounced because of the 'h*lp' in the subject line. please reply to the sender, not to me. postmaster@castle.org - ------- Forwarded Message From: PDRUSS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 02:24:37 EDT Subject: Help. I got totallly stupid and volunteered...... To: scribes@castle.org, TrimariScribes@yahoogroups.com - - --part1_ad.1f767da2.2a4ffe25_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .... to have a scribal night at my house for our shire. I have 2 people that are interested in coming. One knows calligraphy already, thank goodness. The other one didn't say what they know. I'm still a beginner myself. It's going to be "let's share what we know" and not anyone person teaching the others. Just more having other people for company while we did what we do. I got a great handout from the KWHS by Lord Ien, I'm going to copy and start with if we do get someone who doesn't know anything. I'm just a painter myself, on scrolls other folks have drawn. I don't use calligraphy at all. Are there any simple designs we can start with? Any beginner web site I need to read ASAP. Things are not starting here until after the 4th of July holiday. Tamara Trimaris - - --part1_ad.1f767da2.2a4ffe25_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit .... to have a scribal night at my house for our shire.

I have 2 people that are interested in coming. One knows calligraphy already, thank goodness. The other one didn't say what they know.

I'm still a beginner myself. It's going to be "let's share what we know" and not anyone person teaching the others. Just more having other people for company while we did what we do.

I got a great handout from the KWHS by Lord Ien, I'm going to copy and start with if we do get someone who doesn't know anything.

I'm just a painter myself, on scrolls other folks have drawn.
I don't use calligraphy at all.

Are there any simple designs we can start with?  Any beginner web site I need to read ASAP.  Things are not starting here until after the 4th of July holiday.

Tamara
Trimaris



 - - --part1_ad.1f767da2.2a4ffe25_boundary-- - ------- End of Forwarded Message =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 17:34:58 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]:volunteered to host scribal night...(long) - --part1_50.da6d0f7.2a50d382_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2002 12:52:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nomad@castle.org writes: > .... to have a scribal night at my house for our shire. > > I have 2 people that are interested in coming. One knows calligraphy > already, > thank goodness. The other one didn't say what they know. > > I'm still a beginner myself. It's going to be "let's share what we know" > and > not anyone person teaching the others. Just more having other people for > company while we did what we do. Sounds like the beginnings of a scriptorium to me. (A scriptorium is just a bunch of scribes who get together on a regular basis and work on scrolls. They can each work on one part of the same scroll, or do entire scrolls by themselves, or any combination thereof.) That is how we started our scriptorium in Marinus. We each had areas we liked to do and research and taught the others what we were doing. There were only three of us at the beginning, and then as others came in we taught and learned from them. Even beginners can input a lot into a scriptorium and are great at making you start thinking in a different direction in research. > > I got a great handout from the KWHS by Lord Ien, I'm going to copy and > start > with if we do get someone who doesn't know anything. Take classes at SCA events whenever you can. Save the handouts and contact info of the instructors and share them with the others in your scriptorium. This is also a great way to learn new things. If you take a class and learn something really nifty, try teaching that to the others in your scriptorium. The scriptorium can also be a great place to practice a class if you are planning to teach one for a kingdom university or art and science faire. It can help you get the timing down and find out any logistical problems you may have that you didn't think of (such as the drying time for gesso buttons so the participants could take them home...) > > I'm just a painter myself, on scrolls other folks have drawn. > I don't use calligraphy at all. > > Are there any simple designs we can start with? Any beginner web site I > need > to read ASAP. Things are not starting here until after the 4th of July > holiday. > > Tamara > Trimaris > Do you have access to a decent library that has books on old manuscripts and illumination? If so, check some of those books out and have them at your meeting. You can trace things out of the books or use them for ideas. If you do not, you may be able to pull off some pages from the internet. Check out ebay, they usually have something up for sale with cool pictures of manuscripts on it. There are also a number of sites from members of this list who have period samples and their own artwork up that you might be able to get ideas from. There are some sites that are pictures of the actual manuscripts scanned in and you can print them out if you have a decent printer and trace them from there. Use a copy machine or your computer to enlarge or reduce to the right size. As to simple designs, the thing I like to teach in my beginner illumination class is a simple bar and vine. Have them put a 2" border around their paper. Then Make an L shape or inverted L shape on the paper about another two inches wide. This is your illumination area. Your calligraphy goes in the remaining area. Make sure it is big enough for the text you want to put in at the size of nib you want to use. I always do the calligraphy at this point just in case I mess it up. (Tip for calligraphy - trace your area on tacing paper and line it and do the calligraphy on the tracing paper at least once, if not twice, to get the spacing right for the scroll.) Once the calligraphy is done, draw a rectangle (bar) about a half inch wide from top to bottom in the illumination area. You want to offset it from the center towards the calligraphy, but you don't want it to touch the callgraphy. Put about 1/4 of an inch between the bar and the calligraphy. Now draw a vine sprouting from the top and bottom of the bar or half way down the bar. Make the vine curve around in a natural, but symettrical pattern that looks nice to you. Now put some leaves on the vine and little curly-cues (pig tails). You can add flowers or bugs too. Or hide things in the leaves like faces, people, animals, etc. Or just keep it simple vine and leaves. Don't have the vine go over the bar, make it sprout from the side in one or two places and keep all the vine and leaves on that side of the bar. Also the leaves tended to sprout out of the vine on the outside of the curve with the leaf on the end of the loop stuck to the center of the loop (the leaves did not alternate out of both sides of the vine when the vine was curving in a tight circle). Check out period samples and you will see what I mean. Divide the bar into equal sections (at least four) and then paint them in alternating colors (blue and red, red and green, etc.) Do some geometric shapes on the painted bars in thin white lines (whitework) after the solid colors have dried. Study some whitework before you attempt it. Remember that the leaves were seldom painted green, but the vine often was. The leaves can be your same two colors on the bar, or some other colors or gold leaf that compliment them. Don't do more than four colors on the leaves or it looks too gaudy. If you have more questions on this, email me and I will try to answer them. Have fun in your new scriptorium and share your knowledge and ideas and even goals at your meetings. You will all learn a lot from them! Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Deputy Clerk Signet, Scrivenor Royal, Atlantia) - --part1_50.da6d0f7.2a50d382_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2002 12:52:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nomad@castle.org writes:


.... to have a scribal night at my house for our shire.

I have 2 people that are interested in coming. One knows calligraphy already,
thank goodness. The other one didn't say what they know.

I'm still a beginner myself. It's going to be "let's share what we know" and
not anyone person teaching the others. Just more having other people for
company while we did what we do.


Sounds like the beginnings of a scriptorium to me. (A scriptorium is just a bunch of scribes who get together on a regular basis and work on scrolls. They can each work on one part of the same scroll, or do entire scrolls by themselves, or any combination thereof.)

That is how we started our scriptorium in Marinus. We each had areas we liked to do and research and taught the others what we were doing. There were only three of us at the beginning, and then as others came in we taught and learned from them. Even beginners can input a lot into a scriptorium and are great at making you start thinking in a different direction in research.


I got a great handout from the KWHS by Lord Ien, I'm going to copy and start
with if we do get someone who doesn't know anything.



Take classes at SCA events whenever you can. Save the handouts and contact info of the instructors and share them with the others in your scriptorium. This is also a great way to learn new things. If you take a class and learn something really nifty, try teaching that to the others in your scriptorium. The scriptorium can also be a great place to practice a class if you are planning to teach one for a kingdom university or art and science faire. It can help you get the timing down and find out any logistical problems you may have that you didn't think of (such as the drying time for gesso buttons so the participants could take them home...)


I'm just a painter myself, on scrolls other folks have drawn.
I don't use calligraphy at all.

Are there any simple designs we can start with?  Any beginner web site I need
to read ASAP.  Things are not starting here until after the 4th of July
holiday.

Tamara
Trimaris

Do you have access to a decent library that has books on old manuscripts and illumination? If so, check some of those books out and have them at your meeting. You can trace things out of the books or use them for ideas. If you do not, you may be able to pull off some pages from the internet. Check out ebay, they usually have something up for sale with cool pictures of manuscripts on it. There are also a number of sites from members of this list who have period samples and their own artwork up that you might be able to get ideas from. There are some sites that are pictures of the actual manuscripts scanned in and you can print them out if you have a decent printer and trace them from there. Use a copy machine or your computer to enlarge or reduce to the right size.

As to simple designs, the thing I like to teach in my beginner illumination class is a simple bar and vine. Have them put a 2" border around their paper. Then Make an L shape or inverted L shape on the paper about another two inches wide. This is your illumination area. Your calligraphy goes in the remaining area. Make sure it is big enough for the text you want to put in at the size of nib you want to use. I always do the calligraphy at this point just in case I mess it up. (Tip for calligraphy - trace your area on tacing paper and line it and do the calligraphy on the tracing paper at least once, if not twice, to get the spacing right for the scroll.) Once the calligraphy is done, draw a rectangle (bar) about a half inch wide from top to bottom in the illumination area. You want to offset it from the center towards the calligraphy, but you don't want it to touch the callgraphy. Put about 1/4 of an inch between the bar and the calligraphy. Now draw a vine sprouting from the top and bottom of the bar or half way down the bar. Make the vine curve around in a natural, but symettrical pattern that looks nice to you. Now put some leaves on the vine and little curly-cues (pig tails). You can add flowers or bugs too. Or hide things in the leaves like faces, people, animals, etc. Or just keep it simple vine and leaves. Don't have the vine go over the bar, make it sprout from the side in one or two places and keep all the vine and leaves on that side of the bar. Also the leaves tended to sprout out of the vine on the outside of the curve with the leaf on the end of the loop stuck to the center of the loop (the leaves did not alternate out of both sides of the vine when the vine was curving in a tight circle). Check out period samples and you will see what I mean. Divide the bar into equal sections (at least four) and then paint them in alternating colors (blue and red, red and green, etc.) Do some geometric shapes on the painted bars in thin white lines (whitework) after the solid colors have dried. Study so! me whitework before you attempt it. Remember that the leaves were seldom painted green, but the vine often was. The leaves can be your same two colors on the bar, or some other colors or gold leaf that compliment them. Don't do more than four colors on the leaves or it looks too gaudy.

If you have more questions on this, email me and I will try to answer them. Have fun in your new scriptorium and share your knowledge and ideas and even goals at your meetings. You will all learn a lot from them!

Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Deputy Clerk Signet, Scrivenor Royal, Atlantia)
- --part1_50.da6d0f7.2a50d382_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 17:49:35 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone - --part1_17a.a8f40ad.2a50d6ef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2002 12:23:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hdorsett@alaska.net writes: > In short: The people interested in commissioning scribework get what they > want, > even if it's not what their local scribes happen to do best...we scribes > hear > about more opportunities to do the types of pieces we each enjoy...no one > scribe > gets burned out. Everybody wins! (But pity the poor schmuck who has to > coordinate it all.) > I like this idea. But maybe, instead of one person coordinating it, perhaps it could be set up so that customers post a job they want done and scribes reply with a bid if they want to do it. Then the customer decides who they are going to pay to do the job. Scribes could also advertise themselves on it to solicit jobs. Is that something that could be set up to work? Sort of like a classified add section for scribes/artists. We would probably have to advertise on other SCA lists that this thing is out there in order to get non-scribes to post what they want done. I know I would refer a bit of work to a page like this. I am always getting people asking me to do a scroll or something (wedding invitaitons) on a specific deadline and I have to turn a lot of them down because I simply don't have the time to do them. It would be nice to say, "well, I can't do it, but why don't you post it here and I am sure someone out there will be able to get it done for you." A site like that would be really cool. Brandy - --part1_17a.a8f40ad.2a50d6ef_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2002 12:23:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hdorsett@alaska.net writes:


In short:  The people interested in commissioning scribework get what they want,
even if it's not what their local scribes happen to do best...we scribes hear
about more opportunities to do the types of pieces we each enjoy...no one scribe
gets burned out.  Everybody wins!  (But pity the poor schmuck who has to
coordinate it all.)

I like this idea. But maybe, instead of one person coordinating it, perhaps it could be set up so that customers post a job they want done and scribes reply with a bid if they want to do it. Then the customer decides who they are going to pay to do the job. Scribes could also advertise themselves on it to solicit jobs. Is that something that could be set up to work? Sort of like a classified add section for scribes/artists.

We would probably have to advertise on other SCA lists that this thing is out there in order to get non-scribes to post what they want done. I know I would refer a bit of work to a page like this. I am always getting people asking me to do a scroll or something (wedding invitaitons) on a specific deadline and I have to turn a lot of them down because I simply don't have the time to do them. It would be nice to say, "well, I can't do it, but why don't you post it here and I am sure someone out there will be able to get it done for you."

A site like that would be really cool.

Brandy
- --part1_17a.a8f40ad.2a50d6ef_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #16 ****************************