From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #13 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, June 27 2002 Volume 08 : Number 013 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls Re: [scribes]: re: stipend Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price [scribes]: re: beyond final price -- not by scrolls alone [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? Re: [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? [scribes]: KWHSS thoughts? Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question [scribes]: Makers Mark database [scribes]: Final price - Correction [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone [scribes]: (FWD) more auto-bounced email to scribes list Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:14:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Anna Troy Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls I use my mundane monograph, a capital "A" with a crossbar on top. Anna de Byxe also known as Anna Troy > > > I've heard them called "maker's marks" as well. > > > > Mine is a small red cross-crosslet, though I've > only used it on a couple > of > > my scrolls so far. > > > > Christopher > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any > additional text in > the body. > ===== "So many books, so little time." "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 00:20:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Anna Troy Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: stipend At least every Royal in Drachenwald are very particular about showing the handed out scroll and to read out on the back who has made it and anything else that they can read there. One of the reasons I sit up front at Court is so that I can see the scrolls and even then it's hard to see much. Anna de Byxe > > This may be so but it is a very small percentage of > scrolls utlilized during > a reign. I personally haven't done any scribal work > since last Fall and > although I would like to get back into it, I find > that I'm not as motivated > as I could be. Do I want money? Not at all!! What > I would like to see > though is more recognition in court of the work we > do. The last several > royals have not even held up the scrolls let alone > mention who has done the > work. That's my payment - the appreciation of the > work done. It would be > nice if there was a display table set up right after > court for an hour or so > to show off the scrolls close up. But please at > least hold them up and > maybe pan them around for a second. > > Failenn MacFergus > unmotivated Atlantian scribe. > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any > additional text in > the body. > ===== "So many books, so little time." "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:30:30 +0930 From: "Kat" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price I am wondering...... what if along with the scroll, and perhaps a 'how to look after' notice, - a notice on how much the scroll is worth if contemplating insurance for it.... hint, hint... Then maybe people may learn the true value of the gifts we have laboured upon..... Katerina Innilgard. > Do you suppose that the Noble (and I use the term in its most general sense) > who rolled up your work and stuffed it in his pouch would have done such a > thing - if he had paid $1,000.00 for your time? I'll bet he wouldn't have > done it if he had paid $20.00 for your time! You understood his loss. > He didn't have a clue... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:32:43 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: [scribes]: re: beyond final price -- not by scrolls alone Dear folks, I've enjoyed this discussion. A lot of what I have believed about the narrowness of the scribes' focus on award scrolls has been confirmed, which is to the good. But I would like to see some proposals for action now. We realize that doing our artwork for free has its real rewards -- the appreciation of the recipient, and the pleasure of a job well done, and the feeling of being of service to one's kingdom and to the SCA. We also realize that these rewards are not the whole picture -- that scribes pay for their own work, that work is not always appreciated, that there are continual problems with getting enough lead-time to do a good job. I submit that our problem is not with doing award scrolls, but with doing _only_ award scrolls. We need new venues, other ways to do our calligraphy and illumination that will also gain appreciation and add to the SCA, and will also give us more control over our time and money. A scribal works website has been suggested, featuring work for sale. Commissions have been mentioned. We need more of these, and we need ways of promoting them. I think the problems with doing scrolls alone will be alleviated, and SCA folks will start thinking differently about scrolls, if there are alternative cash-based venues. - -- johannes v.n. "Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't" -- Mark Twain =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:06:29 EDT From: BessdeNevell@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? - --part1_190.8ef9874.2a4c75e5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/2002 11:09:33 PM Central Daylight Time, sburnell@raex.com writes: > The point I guess I was attempting to make was that I was wondering whether > scribes do their craft to propagate their art or as a way to serve their > Crown and Kingdom, or both? This is an excellent question. IMHO the answer is that there are all three, and that usually there is some sort of evolution in mindset. There are those scribes who do service by donating their works to the crown. It's how they give back to the kingdom. They make completely appropriate "SCA style" scrolls and get their biggest pleasure by seeing their works handed out in court, by knowing that they've helped make someone else's day. They're probably newer at the art, maybe they just paint in the lines for someone else's design. Generally they don't consider themselves artists. Sometimes, they're more administrators, using their skills to organize groups of scribes in their area, seeking out assignments and projects for their groups to work on, organizing classes and demos for the local scribes. Then there are A&S Scribes who thrive on making their works as period as possible. They make their own pigments and inks, maybe even their brushes, pens and paper. They study and research a given design and style then practice practice practice until they have the perfect execution. They enter the competitions and take what they learn from that experience to heart, putting it back into their art. They take their art to new levels and push up "the bar". I also think that there is a middle of the road scribe who sits between these two. Perhaps they started off as a service scribe, and as the years went by decided to get more "serious" about their art. They put a little more research into their projects striving to bring period design elements into the scrolls. Learning how to stick to one style rather than combining several. Maybe they start to do a little A&S competition to "test the water" and see if they can float. Most people, I think, probably fit into the middle scribe category. And the time of evolution from one to another is different for everyone. Perhaps some will not switch between these categories at all. I've been all three at different periods of time, in playing with different reenactment groups. For now though, in the SCA I'm perfectly happy sitting in the middle. :-) Cheers! ~Bess - --part1_190.8ef9874.2a4c75e5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/2002 11:09:33 PM Central Daylight Time, sburnell@raex.com writes:


The point I guess I was attempting to make was that I was wondering whether scribes do their craft to propagate their art or as a way to serve their Crown and Kingdom, or both?


This is an excellent question.  IMHO the answer is that there are all three, and that usually there is some sort of evolution in mindset.

There are those scribes who do service by donating their works to the crown.  It's how they give back to the kingdom. They make completely appropriate "SCA style" scrolls and get their biggest pleasure by seeing their works handed out in court, by knowing that they've helped make someone else's day.  They're probably newer at the art, maybe they just paint in the lines for someone else's design.  Generally they don't consider themselves artists.  Sometimes, they're more administrators, using their skills to organize groups of scribes in their area, seeking out assignments and projects for their groups to work on, organizing classes and demos for the local scribes.

Then there are A&S Scribes who thrive on making their works as period as possible.  They make their own pigments and inks, maybe even their brushes, pens and paper.  They study and research a given design and style then practice practice practice until they have the perfect execution.  They enter the competitions and take what they learn from that experience to heart, putting it back into their art.  They take their art to new levels and push up "the bar".

I also think that there is a middle of the road scribe who sits between these two.  Perhaps they started off as a service scribe, and as the years went by decided to get more "serious" about their art.  They put a little more research into their projects striving to bring period design elements into the scrolls.  Learning how to stick to one style rather than combining several.  Maybe they start to do a little A&S competition to "test the water" and see if they can float. 

Most people, I think, probably fit into the middle scribe category.  And the time of  evolution from one to another is different for everyone.  Perhaps some will not switch between these categories at all.  I've been all three at different periods of time, in playing with different reenactment groups.  For now though, in the SCA I'm perfectly happy sitting in the middle.  :-)

Cheers!

~Bess

 - --part1_190.8ef9874.2a4c75e5_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:19:57 -0500 From: "Chiara" Subject: Re: [scribes]: What kind of scribe are you? For me there is a element of breaking the "this cannot be done" rule. In the end though it is for service as well but not until I have met the challenge and promoted the art. Currently the challenge for me is the translate a scroll into a dead language that is in all rights a fantasy script that an book author invented from several others. I have to have it done and delivered a state away in 3 weeks. I know I can do it. I chose to take it on cause not only do I have to do the translation but I get to do the art work on it as well. Unfortunately it is not for the SCA, I doubt this type of scroll would be accepted or even tolerated as it is a fantasy script with questionable history. Thankfully the scribal community also recognize this to be a challenge and have provided many tools to make my job possible. :) Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Steppes, Ansteorra `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: [scribes]: KWHSS thoughts? I was wondering how Knowne World Heraldic and Scribes Symposium when from any of the scribes that attended? From the class list, it looked like there was a variety of subjects. Was the scribal attendance good? Were the classes informative or inspiring? Were the scribes from various kingdoms able to interact and share experiences? Just wondering, Hillary/Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:39:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls I think that a very loose listing for identification purposes, like on the web page, is a good (and very period) idea. Registering and restricting their use is not. Graidhne On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > > >>I'm new to the scribe-game, so please bare with me. Is there a Scribner's > Guild? Perhaps signatures could be registered, like badges. It would create > more paperwork, but adnit it - you're a scribe. In that dark place in your > heart, you LOVE paperwork.<< > > No, I hate paperwork. But then I'm Society Exchequer on top of being a > scribe, so I get enough of paperwork through that connection with the SCA. > > But I think registering, or even tracking, who's using what mark is insane. > I've been friends with too many people connected to Laurel who have related > the absolute bad blood that can be generated by someone already using > *your* badge just because you hadn't registered it before, or who has arms > close enough to your submission to conflict and won't give their permission > for you to conflict, even though you live in the West and they live in the > East. > > Let's not go there. > > Tetchubah > > Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:38:55 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price I hope no one takes offence at this, it's not meant to offend and I apologize if anyone does take offence. What all of this comes down to is this: No one is tying you down to make scrolls. No one put you on the kingdom - or principality, or baronial - contact list without your permission. You can get off of the kingdom contact list by just asking - same way you got on it. You are *not* a slave, you can turn down any request - they are requests, not requirements - for a scroll from the signet ---- even when the signet sounds on the verge of tears or is obviously at the end of their rope, you have the *right* to turn it down. Deadlines don't have to happen for you as a scribe - you can do backlogs. You can do backlogs for *other kingdoms* if your kingdom doesn't have a backlog list and backlogs usually don't have deadlines. FWIW, the West is terribly needy in this department. Scrolls are gifts from the scribe to the Crown. The Crown then makes of them gifts to others. Thanking the scribe can be seen as on the order of thanking the person who arranged the flowers your (insert someone nice here) gave you. It's not a requirement. Thanking the Crown who gave the gift should be. Thanking the scribe who made the scroll should be icing on the cake, not the flour in it. Anyone who separates service from martial from the arts and sciences is not seeing the big picture in the SCA, IMO. Service runs through everything - if it doesn't, you're just playing dress up and probably not even doing that well. The three *can* all run together and, IMO, should to some extent. You don't have to be a fighter to be a waterbearer, marshal, ciergon, etc.; just as you don't have to be a pelican wanna be to run an event or give someone a hand with their heavy box, etc. I'm not saying that everyone has to do everything. I'm saying that to separate these three aspects according to the peerages is a mindset that can unravel the fabric of society by not encouraging people to do other things. A great part of the SCA is learning, if you only concentrate on one aspect, you will lose out on a lot of learning. If each person were to only concentrate on their singular aspect; fighting pole-arm, costuming, woodworking, armor building, waterbearing, etc. the society would be much less courteous as a whole and, IMO, wouldn't be as worthwhile as it is now. Everyone is a servant to their Crown. That's the way it works. They rule because we believe. However, in this new Middle Ages, it is possible to say no to those above you (I'm talking about signet here) and not have any horrible repercussions. If you feel guilt at turning down assignments that is *you*, not your Crown, not your Signet, not your Kingdom - it's you. If you feel unappreciated when you say that all you want is the smile on the recipient's face, perhaps you need to re-evaluate why you do this. If you feel soooo unappreciated but can't bear to stop creating scrolls for whatever reason, teach a class on the value of the scroll. Explain and give figures for each step of the creation process. Give comparison figures for what artists and calligraphers in the modern world make for this stuff. Start educating people, don't just complain about them. As someone else pointed out, if we don't teach the population at large what their scroll is worth, who will? I have an article I've been working on for over a year now on the actual value of scrolls - unfortunately I've been too busy with other things to finish it. Hopefully, I'll get to do so before the calendar year is out. Remember, this is a volunteer organization, you are a volunteer; as such, you have the right to walk away at any time. You also have the right to stay and make the organization a better place with your skills and knowledge in ways other than scribal. Smiles, Despina =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 06:19:21 -1000 (HST) From: Jan McEwen Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question Hi Constanca! I'm one of the people who you were sitting with at CNGP. I didn't know you did scribal work as well! We really have to get a scriptorium going, right, Dubheasa? Sounds like your work is gorgeous; you didn't happen to bring pictures with you? > interest would be learning more of the turn of the 16th century stuff - > especially the handwriting - but I'll take what I get for now. I'd be interested in learning about the handwriting and writs during the time of the English Civil War (I know, gray period), since that is one of my sweetheart's time interests. > And does anyone have any suggestions on how to not get your paints to dry > out as quickly when you're painting? I'm using gauche, and I like the way > that it looks, but I usually end up mixing a lot more than what I need > (okay, the pictures are small in addition to being detailed) just so that it > will hopefully still be wet by the time that I get to another part. You should be able to reconstitute it with water, but I'm sure that the more experienced scribes may have better ideas. Catriona Stewart - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, Urban Horticulturist, Urban Garden Center, Pearl City, Hawaii Hawaii Cooperative Extension Service University of Hawaii/College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources SCA: Catriona Stewart of the Glens, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid Internet: jmcewen@hawaii.edu =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 12:53:41 -0400 From: "Danielle Scott" Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls :::Smiling::: You are absolutely right, thank you for putting it into perspective. The idea of using a seal to hold the seal is a great idea. I have one scroll that I was thinking about using a minstrel juggling all of the many badges a person has for a scroll at one time. Daniela >From: "Helen Schultz" >To: >Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 20:40:28 -0500 > >I tend to think Chiara has a bit of an edge of both of you... she did the >illumination for my Willow scroll (Middle Kingdom Arts Award) in 1994 and >signed >it with her trademark dragonfly (about 2 or 3 years before she was elevated >to >the Order of the Laurel, by the way)... and... painted a seal to hold the >kingdom "seal" on its nose -- I love that part really a whole bunch, Chiara >. > >I don't think it really matters what symbol is used to identify you, as >long as >those around you KNOW that this symbol is yours, and that you also put your >name >on the back of the scroll just in case. > >Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL >Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) >Middle Kingdom >http://ww1.comteck.com/~meisterin > > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:11:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question > And does anyone have any suggestions on how to not get your paints to dry > out as quickly when you're painting? I'm using gauche, and I like the way > that it looks, but I usually end up mixing a lot more than what I need > (okay, the pictures are small in addition to being detailed) just so that it > will hopefully still be wet by the time that I get to another part. It's gouache. I.e. opaque watercolor. You know, watercolor--the stuff that often *comes* dried out? ;) In fact, I will often mix up more than I need of the colors I usually use, then let them dry on my plastic palette. I cover the palette and take it along (to events or whatever) instead of the tubes of gouache. The one exception to the easy-reconstituting is certain kinds of red, which turn gritty when reconstituted. (At least for the Winsor & Newton brand.) But if the red is mixed with other colors, to tone it down for instance, then the grittiness is abated. And even if it does get gritty, grinding with the wrong end of a pen holder (or other such blunt tool) will eventually get it smooth again. If your problem is that the gouache dries out too quickly _while in use_, try using colder water. But if you are in a hot, dry climate, you may just have to get used to adding water more often. Also, whenever possible, paint everything that's going to be one color before moving on to the next color. The time spent on re-mixing colors will be minimized. Oh, and welcome to the list! Martha Darach, Caid __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:34:18 -0400 From: "Danielle Scott" Subject: [scribes]: Makers Mark database I think a database would be a lot of fun, just to see what everyone uses, but not to make a mark exclusive. (that could open a whole can of worms and paperwork which I try to avoid when possible.) :) I was just thinking that since I put my information in pencil on the back I wouldn't be opposed to changing my mark if necessary. I'm considering a little blue demon with big ears, black eyes and a big nose. After seeing a certain movie I've been told that I'm a lot like the two main characters rolled into one. What can I say I'm a little monster. Daniela http://home.talkcity.com/EaselSt/daniela1971/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:01:13 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: [scribes]: Final price - Correction Well, in the interest of defending the Middle Kingdom and it's exchequer, I would like to state that Saradwen seems to be misinformed on the subject of the new thrones that the Middle recently purchased (no offense, intended to Saradwen - I'm sure that's what she'd been told). The kingdom did *not* spend $12,000 on those thrones. I was just entering their depreciation into my schedules the other evening and the kingdom spent only $1400 on the new thrones last year. You should have heard the I got from Midair when I asked him if there was something going on that I didn't know about ; - -) I don't know where the rumor started that the thrones cost that much, but it is no where near correct. But still, that's also $1400 they could have spent on their scribes ;-) Tetchubah (leaving for Western Seas in a couple of hours) Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Allen Freeman Subject: [scribes]: RE:not by scrolls alone I applaud this line of reasoning, and have a few ideas geared to produce options. It's a known thing that there is a market for calligraphy in the mundane world. it's also a known thing that there are markets for illumination and illustration. it's a known thing that SCAdian scribes possess true talent in both of these areas. The question is, then, why not cash in? Instead of having each scribe wander out into the art market alone and have them struggle to market themselves, why not form consortiums? There are several scriptoriums in the known world comprised of many talented scribes. Why not market the scriptorium as a whole, then farm work out to the scribes whose talents match the project contracted? Another potential angle would be the local and regional art scenes. Gather portfolios, pound pavement. Find venues to show work and facilitate retail sales. Or if that's not your cup of tea, market yourself to the global art scene. Ebay is a powerful tool these days for putting sellers in touch with buyers. A web site geared towards the same goal would be easy to acomplish and would require a minimum of upkeep once running. Also, don't forget your local, regional, and national marketing agencies, book companies, newspapers, graphic arts studios, etc. All of these are potential markets for what we do. Ever see illumination in a novel? I have, and someone got paid to do it, why not us? I know of at least one young lady who managed to support herself through college illuminating poetry and selling it in various places. I suppose it comes down to the same bottom line no matter what the situation: you dictate your own level of involvement. If the scribes in the society are tired of working for free or are just looking to branch out, well ladies and gentlement, the market's just waiting. Go seize it. - -phaedrus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:57:22 -0700 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: (FWD) more auto-bounced email to scribes list Please respond to the sender, not to me. postmaster@castle.org - ------- Forwarded Message Message-ID: <003201c21dfc$5d40ff20$aabead8e@ab.hsia.telus.net> From: "Melaena" To: "Scribes' list" References: <20020627171128.19906.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 12:01:43 -0500 > The one exception to the easy-reconstituting is certain kinds of red, which > turn gritty when reconstituted. (At least for the Winsor & Newton brand.) Is *that* the problem! I'm pleased to see this happens to other people too. I use W and N gouache too and I thought I was losing my mind. Just couldn't keep the red nice and smooth. Thanks for telling the list! Now I know I am not alone! =) Margareta vanden Velde Montengarde-Avacal-An Tir - ------- End of Forwarded Message =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:29:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction and question On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Martha Palotay wrote: > > And does anyone have any suggestions on how to not get your paints to dry > > out as quickly when you're painting? I'm using gauche, and I like the way > > that it looks, but I usually end up mixing a lot more than what I need > > (okay, the pictures are small in addition to being detailed) just so that it > > will hopefully still be wet by the time that I get to another part. > > It's gouache. I.e. opaque watercolor. You know, watercolor--the stuff that > often *comes* dried out? ;) > > In fact, I will often mix up more than I need of the colors I usually use, then > let them dry on my plastic palette. I cover the palette and take it along (to > events or whatever) instead of the tubes of gouache. > > The one exception to the easy-reconstituting is certain kinds of red, which > turn gritty when reconstituted. (At least for the Winsor & Newton brand.) But > if the red is mixed with other colors, to tone it down for instance, then the > grittiness is abated. And even if it does get gritty, grinding with the wrong > end of a pen holder (or other such blunt tool) will eventually get it smooth > again. > Savoir Faire (The French School) gouache Just Does Not Rehydrate. At All. I've tried leaving huge amounts of water on a dried blob for *hours* with no appreciable effect. For the water problem, I bought a bag of these very odd little accordion-pleated squeeze bottle-ettes, what AS&S* calls "squeezer droppers" and they work really well for adding that necessary drop of water to the gouache drying in the clam shell. And they're plastic, so I don't have to worry about things breaking when I or the cat knock them onto the tile floor (unlike the mussel shell, which is in pieces). The next time I make it to a local scribal night I will bring them and hand them 'round, as they come 15 to a bag and I certainly don't need more than maybe two. Margaret FitzWilliam =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:34:31 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Dear folks, Despina writes, "Scrolls are gifts from the scribe to the Crown. The Crown then makes of them gifts to others. Thanking the scribe can be seen as on the order of thanking the person who arranged the flowers your (insert someone nice here) gave you. It's not a requirement. Thanking the Crown who gave the gift should be. Thanking the scribe who made the scroll should be icing on the cake, not the flour in it." Meaning no direspect to Despina, but I have to disagree. In 25 years of calligraphing for the SCA, including a year and a half as a kingdom signet, I have never EVER thought my scroll was a gift to the Crown, pure and simple, and have never EVER encouraged my apprentices or any others to think so, even as signet officer. Rather, I think of it is a gift _in partnership with_ the Crown, but _to the recipient_ first and foremost; and so I have taught. Now my experience was in kingdoms where scrolls were done by hand; and I believe Depsina lives in a different part of the Known World, and scrolls may be done differently there. But this is a fundamental difference in outlook, and one I would wager has had a lot to do with how scribes are taught to see their service through art. As to thanking the scribe, I am happy when it happens, but I do not expect it. I expect my scroll to be shown at court, when awarded to the recipient or at another suitabel time, and perhaps my name to be read, but only as something done routinely (if out of courtesy) because scribes should be recognized. - -- johannes v.n. "Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't" -- Mark Twain =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:41:23 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price >As to thanking the scribe, I am happy when it happens, but I do not expect >it. The above sentence was what I was aiming at as a point for the post. Thanks is not something that should be expected. *grin* Particularly when so many of us forget to put our names and contact information on the back of the scroll before we give it. Thank you's are a courtesy that should happen more often than they do (in modern life as well as SCA life). When I get them, it's a pleasant surprise, not something for which I had been waiting. >I expect my scroll to be shown at court, when awarded to the >recipient or at another suitabel time, and perhaps my name to be read, but >only as something done routinely (if out of courtesy) because scribes >should be recognized. I don't even *expect* this; I'd like to see it more but.... Having helped with a couple of reigns from the sides, sometimes the Crowns just forget to do this. They're human, they forget, they have a lot of things to think about while they're up there. It's nice when it happens, but gosh, cut the royalty a little bit of a break. I also come from a portion of the Known World where all the scrolls are done by hand. You'll see two from me at Pennsic in Middle Kingdom Court. *wink* Smiles, Despina - ---------- If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #13 ****************************