From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #9 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, June 25 2002 Volume 08 : Number 009 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes [scribes]: signing scrolls [scribes]: (FWD) of auto-bounced email to scribes list Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time [scribes]: Kingdoms paying for scroll materials [scribes]: MY Pay (was Final Price) [scribes]: perception Re: [scribes]: MY Pay (was Final Price) [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls [scribes]: RE: reimbursement Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls [scribes]: reimbersment [scribes]: Henry VIII's Divorce Treaty Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: reimbersment [scribes]: stipend Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:02:50 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes Margaret, there's a glove made for die-hard needleworkers that's supposed to help people with carpal tunnel and other hand conditions do needlework. I don't recall what it's called, but I hear it works very well. I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work for doing C&I. It's not a full glove - - it only goes from the wrist to the knuckles and is made from something like neoprene. You might want to check it out. I know Joady at Hedgehog Handworks carries them (www.hedgehoghandworks.com). Tetchubah (currently suffering from too much exchequer work, not enough scribal time) Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:09:20 -0600 From: "Crystal Olsen" Subject: [scribes]: signing scrolls I'm curious about how you good gentles recommend signing scrolls. I know it's entirely appropriate to do so, and would like to know what different ways are used (For example, hidden in the illumination). I have thought about simply putting a small dragonfly in the corner of each scroll I do, as it is a personal mark of mine. Would this be appropriate? Regards, Jaquelinne de Radonvilliers Newbie Scribe of Artemisia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:58:48 -0700 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: (FWD) of auto-bounced email to scribes list Please do not reply to me, reply directly to the sender postmaster@castle.org - ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: <200206251910.g5PJAdp30509@mail1.mx.voyager.net> From: "Sally Burnell" To: Scribes Reply-To: sburnell@raex.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:10:39 -0400 > I would add that in Ansteorra, our top kingdom scribal officers, do get some > reimbursement for paper and paint supplies from the kingdom (when they > bother to turn in receipts), for the charters painted at the 'paint' parties > throughout the year. I'm not sure, but I think there is a budget for some > of the expenses. Midrealm scribes receive no such compensation, not even our "top" scribes. We do it out of love of our craft. I spend good money on paper, inks, paints, brushes, pens, penholders, etc. I consider it an investment. Yes, it's costly, and yes, when I do a scroll, it's a donation of time and money and materials, whereas other craftspeople get paid for their work (costumers, armourers, etc., except the cooks who prepare our feasts, although the food is paid for usually by the group hosting the event, but their time and labour are not compensated but for the cheers of those consuming their food at feast!). I have heard tell of other Kingdoms compensating their scribes in such things as materials, and have long wondered by what process their Kingdoms are able to afford this. Our Kingdom could in no way buy materials for even its "top" scribes. There are so many, after all. > Of course, the 'payment' to the scribal artisans can come more subtly, when > the Crown reads the name of the scribe as the scroll is given, and held up > for all to 'oh' and 'ah' over; and when the scribal officers, nobility and > royalty, make note of the work and artistry of the scribes and send > recommendations for awards and favor to be given when due. Wordfame and > recognition can certainly help 'compensate' for a lack of financial reward > (sometimes). When my scrolls are given out at court, and the audience oooooooooohs and aaaaaaaaaaaahs over my work, that is pay enough for me. And to see the big smile on the face of the recipient, and since I sign my scrolls, to receive a word of thanks, either in person, by e-mail or whatever (since I put my full contact info on my scrolls these days), is always a great gift. There's nothing better than to know that your work is appreciated. That's MY pay. ~Saradwen Midrealm - ------- End of Forwarded Message =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:14:29 -0400 From: "Danielle Scott" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time Greetings: I agree very much with Lady Anne. I have been a scribe in Atlantia for quite a few years now. Mainly working on the backlog, but I have done scrolls for many reigns and there is one that brings a fond memory to mind more than you can imagine. Just before Their Majesties Almaric & Caia stepped down they sent a note and a favor to each of the kingdoms scribes expressing their gratitude for all the volunteer hours we put in. Though that was a few years ago I still carry that favor to this day. A scribe puts in a lot of hours creating something for someone who puts in many selfless hours for their kingdom, society and friends and when working on a scroll in advance I try to find out a little about the person recieving their award so I can personalize it to their work or personality. I've always hoped that the person recieving their award realises just how special their scroll is and how much of a thank the award is from their Kingdom. Lady Daniela >From: Anna Troy >To: scribes <> >Subject: Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:46:00 -0700 (PDT) > >It's also quite nice when the rulers show that they >appreciate you. We just had a Principality Tourney >here in Nordmark(Sweden) and at their last Court Her >Highness Lady Eyba called up all the scribes that had >done work during their reign and she had made us a >nice little ring made out of beads as a favor. Then >extolled our many virtues to the populace :-) > >Anna de Byxe > > >===== >"So many books, so little time." > >"Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to: >http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:28:15 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: [scribes]: Kingdoms paying for scroll materials Saradwen wrote: >>I have heard tell of other Kingdoms compensating their scribes in such things as materials, and have long wondered by what process their Kingdoms are able to afford this. Our Kingdom could in no way buy materials for even its "top" scribes. There are so many, after all. << Yes, but buying in bulk tends to be cheaper. Also, you don't need to buy new materials for every single scroll except for paper. Paint, brushes, etc. tend to be either reusable on subsequent projects, or take such miniscule amounts that a tube of paint will last for maybe 100 scrolls. Even gold doesn't cost that much on a per scroll basis. And I don't know of a single kingdom that couldn't afford to pay for materials for their scribes - nearly all the kingdoms are quite healthy financially (better off than the corp itself right now), including the Midrealm. And I outta know. But I think the kingdoms have just gotten into the mindset of "scrolls for free" and simply don't see the money invested by their scribes, much less their time. It's not a case of they can't afford to pay for it, it's just a case of it's never occurred to them to pay for it. Tetchubah (I also donate my labor and materials) Society Exchequer - She who knows all ;-) Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:30:56 -0500 From: "P.E. Chadwick" Subject: [scribes]: MY Pay (was Final Price) - --=====================_2798303==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone, I would just like to add on a comment to what Lady Saradwen said. This is my payment! ;-) Yesterday, I received my first ever "Thank You" Card for an award scroll. She complimented me about the beauty of it and the fact that I did a little research and put the time period I attempted to model. I do not consider my work all that. In fact, I wasn't satisfied with the scroll. Does anyone else have that feeling? I have a long way to go and I've learned so much from this group. I'm just tickled purple. >When my scrolls are given out at court, and the audience oooooooooohs >and aaaaaaaaaaaahs over my work, that is pay enough for me. And to see >the big smile on the face of the recipient, and since I sign my >scrolls, to receive a word of thanks, either in person, by e-mail or >whatever (since I put my full contact info on my scrolls these days), >is always a great gift. There's nothing better than to know that your >work is appreciated. That's MY pay. > >~Saradwen > Midrealm I only started putting my address on the back of my scrolls because of a recommendation in the Middle Kingdom Scribal Handbook. If you haven't seen go look at. It's a great tool, especially for beginners. I'm so grateful that Master Randy did not charge for this handbook. One last comment. Thank you to all of you for being willing to share your experiences and teach to people like me. Enough Said. In Service, Lady Akiko Catherine O'Brien, CW Middle - --=====================_2798303==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone,
I would just like to add on a comment to what Lady Saradwen said.

This is my payment! ;-) 

Yesterday,  I received my first ever "Thank You" Card for an award scroll.
She complimented me about the beauty of it and the fact that I did a little research and put the time period I attempted to model. I do not consider my work all that. In fact, I wasn't satisfied with the scroll. Does anyone else have that feeling?  I have a long way to go and I've learned so much from this group.

I'm just tickled purple.
 
When my scrolls are given out at court, and the audience oooooooooohs
and aaaaaaaaaaaahs over my work, that is pay enough for me. And to see
the big smile on the face of the recipient, and since I sign my
scrolls, to receive a word of thanks, either in person, by e-mail or
whatever (since I put my full contact info on my scrolls these days),
is always a great gift. There's nothing better than to know that your
work is appreciated. That's MY pay.

~Saradwen
 Midrealm

 
I only started putting my address on the back of my scrolls because of a recommendation in the Middle Kingdom Scribal Handbook.  If you haven't seen go look at.  It's a great tool, especially for beginners.

I'm so grateful that Master Randy did not charge for this handbook. 

One last comment.
Thank you to all of you for being willing to share your experiences and teach to people like me. 
Enough Said.
In Service,
Lady Akiko Catherine O'Brien, CW
Middle


 - --=====================_2798303==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:51:12 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: perception At 12:58 PM 6/25/2002 -0700, Lee Damon wrote: >Yes, it's costly, and yes, when I do a scroll, it's a >donation of time and money and materials, whereas other craftspeople >get paid for their work (costumers, armourers, etc., except the cooks >who prepare our feasts, although the food is paid for usually by the >group hosting the event, but their time and labour are not compensated >but for the cheers of those consuming their food at feast!). You obviously have no idea how many of us costumers give away clothing that we make for others who either have no time nor the ability (lacking proper instruction or the time for such). I believe the same can be said for other things that are named here. The real difference is that the things that have been mentioned, crowns, costumes, armor.... these all are things *sold* at events. Very little SCA style artwork is sold at events and when it is, not much of it sells because the majority of people who look at SCA type art as done today feel that they could either learn how and do it themselves or they have a friend who would do it for them for free and thus, they aren't willing to pay the price for it. Nevermind that the linen chemise would only cost me $15-20 in fabric and take three hours at the max for me to make, someone will pay me $60-80 for it; but not that much for a piece of artwork that cost $10-20 in materials and took me 40 hours to produce. It's perception; people perceive that sewing takes longer and uses more expensive stuff - or more stuff and is thus more costly at the outset- , and is more difficult (not to mention the myth that silk and linen have to be expensive but I won't go there right now) than writing and coloring. Everyone can write and everyone can color (in varying degrees of beauty and neatness, of course). Just my two cents, Smiles, Despina =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:53:31 EDT From: BessdeNevell@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: MY Pay (was Final Price) - --part1_c6.d8c69ba.2a4a324b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 3:41:39 PM Central Daylight Time, aikiko@ameritech.net writes: > I do not consider my work all that. In fact, I wasn't satisfied with the > scroll. Does anyone else have that feeling? I have a long way to go > and teach to people like me. > > Lady Akiko Catherine O'Brien, CW *sigh* "People like [you]" Lady Akiko? You mean you people who have awards for their skill and dedication to the Scribal Arts? Someone slap that girl upside the head for me! :-) ~Bess Who loves Akiko dearly. - --part1_c6.d8c69ba.2a4a324b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 3:41:39 PM Central Daylight Time, aikiko@ameritech.net writes:


I do not consider my work all that. In fact, I wasn't satisfied with the scroll. Does anyone else have that feeling?  I have a long way to go <snip> and teach to people like me. 

Lady Akiko Catherine O'Brien, CW


*sigh*  "People like [you]" Lady Akiko? 
You mean you people who have awards for their skill and dedication to the Scribal Arts?  Someone slap that girl upside the head for me! :-)

~Bess
Who loves Akiko dearly. - --part1_c6.d8c69ba.2a4a324b_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: [scribes]: Re: Final price > From: "Sally Burnell" ). > I have heard tell of other Kingdoms compensating their scribes in such > things as materials, and have long wondered by what process their > Kingdoms are able to afford this. Our Kingdom could in no way buy > materials for even its "top" scribes. There are so many, after all. I'm not talking about compensation for those handmade original scrolls; but rather in Ansteorra, for our 'CHARTER' awards. I don't think we could afford to compensate for the use of a high level of gold leaf or parchment paper, either. But, for those kingdoms that do wish to compensate at least some of the expenses, then you could hold fundraisers with the money raised going into the 'scribal' account; to be expensed, as receipts are turned in, only for scrolls given by the Crown (set a guideline for expenses approved by kingdom scribal officers, if need). About 14 yrs. ago, my Laurels tried an experiment to see how much money would be raised for a matched set of illuminated scrolls from the Solomon love poems of the Bible. They were beautifully done, with touches of gold leaf. I recall they were auctioned for about $70-80 each; and considered a successful endevour. Of course, today, those scrolls should easily be worth double or tripple that price, in an SCA market, many times more on the modern market. You guys do beautiful work, make some scrolls that have nothing to do with awards, and auction them off from time to time to raise funds for the scribal accounts to help pay off expenses. Perhaps as the auction prices rise, folks will begin to see the value of the work. Also, be careful about using gallery work as a guideline to how much to price your work. Galleries will take from 20-50% of the value of the sale, so you will need to price your work at the gallery price vs. your take home price. Hillary Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:13:50 EDT From: PDRUSS@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time - --part1_180.9792859.2a4a370e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/02 4:15:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladydanielabh@hotmail.com writes: > but I have done > scrolls for many reigns and there is one that brings a fond memory to mind > more than you can imagine. Just before Their Majesties Almaric & Caia > stepped down they sent a note and a favor to each of the kingdoms scribes > expressing their gratitude for all the volunteer hours we put in. Though > that was a few years ago I still carry that favor to this day. That was nice. Tamara - --part1_180.9792859.2a4a370e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/02 4:15:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladydanielabh@hotmail.com writes:


but I have done
scrolls for many reigns and there is one that brings a fond memory to mind
more than you can imagine.  Just before Their Majesties Almaric & Caia
stepped down they sent a note and a favor to each of the kingdoms scribes
expressing their gratitude for all the volunteer hours we put in.  Though
that was a few years ago I still carry that favor to this day.




That was nice.

Tamara - --part1_180.9792859.2a4a370e_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:30:13 -0400 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls > I'm curious about how you good gentles recommend signing scrolls. I know it's entirely appropriate to do so, and would like to know what different ways are used (For example, hidden in the illumination). I have thought about simply putting a small dragonfly in the corner of each scroll I do, as it is a personal mark of mine. Would this be appropriate? I sure hope so, it's what I use. :) Chiara da Ravenna, dragonfly lover Stonemarche, East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:53:42 -0400 From: "Holly" Subject: [scribes]: RE: reimbursement Here in Trimaris we have just recently switched over to (trying to do) original scrolls for all awards, even AoAs. My local shire just recently held a fundraiser event for the Kingdom level scribe's office. I don't know yet if we are going to donate it all in cash; last meeting I was at, we were looking for local contacts in a business where we might be able to buy paper, brushes, and gouaches in quantity (scribal starter kits is what we're trying to assemble basically) for a quantity purchase discount. We're trying to get the most for the money... :) Regardless of whether they get cash or supplies or both, we raised over $300. Not bad for a small shire and on a weekend with a competing fighting event in the same part of the state on the same day. We had a better turnout than expected. :) Otherwise, for the scribes, it's business as usual - scribes buying out of their own pocket, although I see a positive trend hinting towards some reimbursement for basic materials eventually. Hopefully. :-)---Holly---<--<-@ > -----Original Message----- > From: "Sally Burnell" > > > I have heard tell of other Kingdoms compensating their scribes in such > things as materials, and have long wondered by what process their > Kingdoms are able to afford this. Our Kingdom could in no way buy > materials for even its "top" scribes. There are so many, after all. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:22:22 -0400 From: "Danielle Scott" Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls My lady puting a mark on the scroll is very appropriate. However, I think I should let you know that I use the dragonfly as my mark on my scrolls in Atlantia and it might get us confused for each others work, especially since my Barony is on the East Kingdoms border. Lady Daniela Schwartzhaupt Barony of Bright Hills, Atlantia (Another dragonfly lover) >From: "Kara Westfall" >To: >Subject: Re: [scribes]: signing scrolls >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:30:13 -0400 > > > > > I'm curious about how you good gentles recommend signing scrolls. I know >it's entirely appropriate to do so, and would like to know what different >ways are used (For example, hidden in the illumination). I have thought >about simply putting a small dragonfly in the corner of each scroll I do, >as >it is a personal mark of mine. Would this be appropriate? > >I sure hope so, it's what I use. :) > >Chiara da Ravenna, dragonfly lover >Stonemarche, East > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:27:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahee Subject: [scribes]: reimbersment > I have heard tell of other Kingdoms compensating their scribes in > such > things as materials, and have long wondered by what process their > Kingdoms are able to afford this. Our Kingdom could in no way buy > materials for even its "top" scribes. There are so many, after all. When I first started doing scribal stuff, my small canton chose to spend $200+ to buy supplies for me to use to teach and make availible for the mebers of the canton. They said, "if we can buy a suit of loaner armor, we can buy a suit of loaner brushes." True, they did not buy me gold or leather, just brushes and paints. Little did they know how much use their supplies would get. If I run charters off, the Kingdom will reimbers me as a regional scribal officer...which by the way is looking for a replacement as I have done 3 years in the job. So any group can help out a scribe. Ask a Barony to get you or some new scribe brushes and paints, or to get loaner sets of brushes and paints. If my little group of 5 active families can pull it off, so can yours. Just remind them that it is no different than buying a loaner sword...and if they really kick in the $$ make sure the scroll says so...Painted and supplied by and the on the back. It will give other baronies and groups the idea that it can be done when they hear it read out in court. Underhanded, but it works. your servant, mahee of acre __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:30:31 -0400 From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" Subject: [scribes]: Henry VIII's Divorce Treaty This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C21C76.6366DF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=3D/news/2002/05/14/ncal= c14.xml Laurensa Take hold of your inner dragon and horde not. - ------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C21C76.6366DF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=3D/new= s/2002/05/14/ncalc14.xml
 
Laurensa
Take hold of your inner dragon and = horde=20 not.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00DE_01C21C76.6366DF00-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 18:48:40 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere. I have paid for woodwork in > Ealdormere. I bet fighters pay for armor there. I bet some folks are > paid to make costumes. And the difference is? > > Graidhne Lady Graidhne, You are correct! The difference between Scribes and other artists is one of perception alone. This perception developed, within the Society, over a long period of time. The standard to which SCA Scribes aspire has increased exponentially over the past three decades! Appreciation of the Book Arts has not followed suit. I believe that this is due, almost exclusively, to the fact that Scribes allow themselves to be used as doormats. There's nothing "Period" about that behavior. It is unique to the SCA. (Please - everyone - hear me out before you plant the stake and gather the wood. ) Originally, a request by the Crown for an Award Scroll was quite reasonable. Here's why: The first Scribes drew award scrolls as gifts for their friends. The gifts were freely given. You have to remember...these folks were Hip! The SCA was a -game-. Everybody was there to have a good time... (Those who aren't familiar with the terms "Hip" and "good time", please consult -Harper's Dictionary of American Slang-.) :-) The first "scrolls" were "coloured marker/sketch paper/afternoon fun" productions. Yes, a few early scrolls were more elaborate; but that elaboration was neither -expected- nor -demanded-. The idea was that Society members who had some drawing ability might spend an hour or two making "far out" awards for their friends. Scribing was supposed to be FUN. ("You fix dinner, I'll clean up the yard and Julie can draw some Medieval awards for the best fighters. Won't that be cool?!") And it was. It is "fun" to give away an hour's work to a close friend. Is it "fun" to give away fifty hours' work to someone whom you've never met - who may neither want nor appreciate it - who may, indeed, fold it up and cram it in with the used feast gear? A "gift" is something of value (monetary, sentimental or otherwise), which is freely given by the owner or creator. Is it any wonder that we lose potential Scribes, when the "gift" is demanded and the -value- is unrecognized? Our current perception (that Scribes are obligated to create expensive "gifts" for a King or Baron to dispense) is truly burdensome and unreasonable. It becomes more so when the holder of the Crown is ignorant of the cost of his demands. Medieval artists were well paid for their work. (Those who were abused, taken advantage of, or poorly compensated simply looked for a better Patron.) Nobles fought, connived and paid lavishly for the privilege of employing the finest artists of the day. That was during the -real- Middle Ages. We claim to uphold a higher standard, "The Middle Ages as They Should Have Been"; but in this regard we have failed quite miserably. (Folks, we had better admit this now, and say it openly! Many talented artists are getting burned out, taking sabbatical, and - all too frequently - quitting. Many others are working diligently, but with a sense that their work is unappreciated and of little value. Still others - perhaps the largest number of all - are quietly walking away from this situation. We will never know the beauty which those men and women might have created.) I have no doubt that, given the choice, many Scribes would continue to offer their work without compensation. The scrolls would be gifts. There is a huge difference between such a gift and an obligation. The distinction -matters-. :-) In Service and Friendship...meaning no offense, Peter =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:54:10 -0500 From: "Chiara" Subject: Re: [scribes]: reimbersment Ditto for our group. There is a stipend every year for scribal supplies for the guild as well as publications. All the guilds that have been around for at least a year get one for supplies to keep going. Sincerely, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Steppes, Ansteorra `°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°` - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahee" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: [scribes]: reimbersment > When I first started doing scribal stuff, my small canton chose to > spend $200+ to buy supplies for me to use to teach and make availible > for the mebers of the canton. They said, "if we can buy a suit of > loaner armor, we can buy a suit of loaner brushes." > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:10:51 -0400 From: "Barbara Bishop" Subject: [scribes]: stipend Atlantia has entered into law that a stipend will be paid for Peerage scrolls requested by the Crown at $25 per scroll up to $250 per reign. If the $250 is not utilized entirely for reimbursements then the rest (per reign) is used to purchase materials for up and coming scribes and scriptoriums. This is new here and has greatly helped to raise awareness. Countess Brigit http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Brigit/index.html "Honor servire est" I do not know what your destiny will be, but one thing I know: the only ones among you who will really be happy are those who have sought and found how to serve. Albert Schweitzer _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:23:50 EDT From: BessdeNevell@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price - --part1_95.1e8991f5.2a4a5586_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 5:49:18 PM Central Daylight Time, troubadr@buffalo.edu writes: > Please - everyone - hear me out before you plant the stake and gather the > wood > ::jumping up and down cheering::: yeah yeah a lynching!! Burn him!!! Burn!! Oh.. wait a minute. I agree with him. Well, better get some more fire wood ;D One thing that Peter said really struck home with me. I recently made a gift for my Duke. When he saw the piece he gasped and said that it was the most beautiful thing that he owned. I was enormously flattered. A Knight, Duke, and Pelican with an arts award for C&I in his own right... people give him really really beautiful stuff *all* the time. Later that night when we were talking he went on about how "back when" he was getting all his awards, the skill level of the scribes was so much lower than it is now. LoL... lemme tell ya that took the air right out of my ballon! The past year and a half I have been one of those artists on sabbatical, and there have been great changes in my Kingdom at least during that time. The Midrealm has had a run of Queens that have a real appreciation for their scribes. In the past few months I've received more thank you notes and tokens of appreciation then I did for the first three years I was working as a scribe. The Baroness of Wyndhaven even made me cry with her kindness and praise. I don't think so much that the system needs to be changed, as I do that we need to look for ideas of creating even more public awareness in the extent of our art. And that, is entirely up to us. ~Bess - --part1_95.1e8991f5.2a4a5586_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/2002 5:49:18 PM Central Daylight Time, troubadr@buffalo.edu writes:


Please - everyone - hear me out before you plant the stake and gather the wood


::jumping up and down cheering:::  yeah yeah a lynching!!  Burn him!!!  Burn!!
Oh.. wait a  minute.  I agree with him.  Well, better get some more fire wood ;D

One thing that Peter said really struck home with me.  I recently made a gift for my Duke.  When he saw the piece he gasped and said that it was the most beautiful thing that he owned.  I was enormously flattered.  A Knight, Duke, and Pelican with an arts award for C&I in his own right... people give him really really beautiful stuff *all* the time.  Later that night when we were talking he went on about how "back when" he was getting all his awards, the skill level of the scribes was so much lower than it is now.   LoL... lemme tell ya that took the air right out of my ballon!

The past year and a half I have been one of those artists on sabbatical, and there have been great changes in my Kingdom at least during that time.  The Midrealm has had a run of Queens that have a real appreciation for their scribes.  In the past few months I've received more thank you notes and tokens of appreciation then I did for the first three years I was working as a scribe.  The Baroness of Wyndhaven even made me cry with her kindness and praise. 

I don't think so much that the system needs to be changed, as I do that we need to look for ideas of creating even more public awareness in the extent of our art.  And that, is entirely up to us.

~Bess - --part1_95.1e8991f5.2a4a5586_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #9 ***************************