From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest)
To: scribes-digest@castle.org
Subject: scribes digest V8 #8
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scribes digest         Tuesday, June 25 2002         Volume 08 : Number 008



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 Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout
 Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?
 Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time
 Re: [scribes]: Realizing value: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 
 [scribes]: scroll pricing 
 Re: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 
 [scribes]: Looking for a Chinese Scribe
 RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price
 [scribes]: Fwd: [MK-SCRIBES] Award recommendation data base
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?
 [scribes]: self valued : Re: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price
 RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 
 Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:01:02 -0400
From: "E. Brown" <tabby@igs.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout

Greetings from Genevieve,

I'm not a member, and successfully downloaded the article (download, not
'open online'). I look forward to following up on Titivillus through the
links!

Regards,

Genevieve la flechiere
Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere


Holly wrote:
> 
> People who are not members of that Yahoo group may not be able to get the
> file.  I am willing to e-mail it to anyone who drops me a line off list.
> It's in the original .doc format just as Melesse uploaded it, but I can
> convert it to plain text in about ten seconds if needed.
> 
> :-)---Holly---<--<-@
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> Try putting this URL in your browser
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TrimariScribes/files/Titivillus%20and%20You
> 

- -- 
All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed.
- -Sean O'Casey, playwright (1880-1964)
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:40:42 -0400
From: "Peter B. Steiner" <troubadr@buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?

EowynA wrote:
> The thread on the Caid-laurels list at this point about the use of silk as a
> layer of clothing mentioned something about silk being specifically NOT
> water absorbent, and NOT wicking away moisture like linen and cotton do.
> 
> So maybe the solution to the clothlet problem is to use linen instead of
> silk.
> 
> Eowyn

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes!    <grin>

100% Linen is the Period choice (though I suspect that 100% Cotton would prove
equally useful as a base for clothlets.)

Silk, Rayon and Polyester should be reserved for other uses.  For instance, they
make reasonably good tinder... <g>  (I understand that the latter two fabrics are
- -very- popular with Late 20th Century Recreationists.  Perhaps you can work out a
trade?)

<ducking and running for cover>)

Peter
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anna Troy <owly3@yahoo.se>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Barter & Time

It's also quite nice when the rulers show that they
appreciate you. We just had a Principality Tourney
here in Nordmark(Sweden) and at their last Court Her
Highness Lady Eyba called up all the scribes that had
done work during their reign and she had made us a
nice little ring made out of beads as a favor. Then
extolled our many virtues to the populace :-)

Anna de Byxe


=====
"So many books, so little time."

"Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to:
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:26:20 -0500 (EST)
From: john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Realizing value: Final price

Dear Folks,

Saradwen's story about free versus charge calligraphy leads me to point
out that, once folks understand that you do great work for free in the
SCA, after they get over the amazement, they will expect you to do the
same for them outside the SCA and will be insulted when you charge.
Scrolls done in the SCA are gifts, tied to the role of the Crown as
gift-giver (since awards are gifts, too, rather than a straight exchange
of time for status). Beyond the SCA, gifts and gift-giving are seen
differently.

- - johannes v.n.

"Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't"
 -- Mark Twain


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:04:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 

I bought a few (they have an 18/0!) the last time I was at Michael's, 
since they were on sale, and I finally got around to using them. I have a 
bad habit of gripping brushes and pens too tightly, and my 
not-carpal-tunnel RSI problem does not like that.

I didn't notice that the shape of the grip made a whole lot of difference, 
but having a thicker brush handle was a godsend. I could actually finish 
all of the vines before my hand started to complain too loudly.

I still haven't found a good solution for the calligraphy, but at least 
now I can paint again.

Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent


On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, K. Z. wrote:

> Hello group,
> I have been looking for brushes for people with arthritis and carpal tunnel 
> syndrom. My hands go numb when painting because I tend to grip the skinny 
> little brushes tightly. I found some brushes that are FABU to say the least. 
> Here are two websites for information and a good deal on them. Just thought 
> I would pass this along. No I do not own stock in the company. :)
> 
> Loew-Cornell Company: Comfort grip brushes
> http://www.loew-cornell.com/
> 
> The Artist Club suppliers:
> http://www.artistsclub.com/lobby.asp
> 
> In Service,
> Lady Collys Bythesea


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:13:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barb Ding <dorrenash@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: scroll pricing 

Greetings to all from Mistress Dorren of Ashwell, East
Kingdom.

Here's a writeup I did (updated from the one on the
page below), at the recipient's request regarding time
and pricing for Laurel scroll:

http://www.virtue.to/articles/laurel/scroll.html

Front end research and planning - 4 hours (would have
been about 6 if I'd had to also transcribe a text from
the original).

Transcribe (from original document) and learn new
calligraphy style - 10 hours (with an incidental
"practice" benefit of 5 additional backlog scrolls
lettered, amounting to approximately 6 hours of the
learning curve).  I might or might not charge for this
bit, depending, but in the case of an entirely new
style where I could not get anything usable out of the
practice, I would certainly charge and be upfront with
customer that they were being charged for it.

Do actual layout - 1 hour
Draw border - 3 hours

Calligraphy - 4 hours (two sessions)
Lay gesso for gold leaf - 2 hours
Gild - 5 hours
Paint borders - 10 hours
Add penwork squiggles - 4 hours

43 hours not including various transportation,
communication with Francois, etc.  Also not including
his time for carving and painting the seals,
experimenting with the wax impressions, rearranging
them (at least once), etc.

Materials:
vellum at $27/sq ft - approximately $35-50
gold and white gold - approximately $3/leaf - $15-20
paint, ink, gesso, etc. were negligable cost

At professional rate of $50/hr, plus materials, to
purchase this as a commission piece would cost
approximately $2,300 -- if I could be persuaded to do
it ;-) which ranges from unlikely to impossible.

4/19/02 update - going rate in Philly for professional
calligraphy stuff is about $100/hr - effectively
doubling the original estimated cost.


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:31:38 -0400
From: "Klaus and Mea" <klausandmea@stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C21C2B.1B3DC680
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings,
    My Lord husband does my calligraphy for me and he uses a "carrot =
penholder" from Paper ink Arts.  It has a very thick handle.  It is made =
for ppl with carpal tunnel and arthritis sufferers.  Its made from =
rosewood, and very pretty.  This holder accepts all the standard nibs.  =
They have them for $12.95.
    I have found that practicing calligraphy with them is much easier =
for me than the normal size.
    Hope this helps!

Lady Mea the Bold
Hartstone/=C6thelmearc
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Pixel, Goddess and Queen=20
  Cc: scribes@castle.org=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 9:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes=20


  I bought a few (they have an 18/0!) the last time I was at Michael's,=20
  since they were on sale, and I finally got around to using them. I =
have a=20
  bad habit of gripping brushes and pens too tightly, and my=20
  not-carpal-tunnel RSI problem does not like that.

  I didn't notice that the shape of the grip made a whole lot of =
difference,=20
  but having a thicker brush handle was a godsend. I could actually =
finish=20
  all of the vines before my hand started to complain too loudly.

  I still haven't found a good solution for the calligraphy, but at =
least=20
  now I can paint again.

  Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent


  On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, K. Z. wrote:

  > Hello group,
  > I have been looking for brushes for people with arthritis and carpal =
tunnel=20
  > syndrom. My hands go numb when painting because I tend to grip the =
skinny=20
  > little brushes tightly. I found some brushes that are FABU to say =
the least.=20
  > Here are two websites for information and a good deal on them. Just =
thought=20
  > I would pass this along. No I do not own stock in the company. :)
  >=20
  > Loew-Cornell Company: Comfort grip brushes
  > http://www.loew-cornell.com/
  >=20
  > The Artist Club suppliers:
  > http://www.artistsclub.com/lobby.asp
  >=20
  > In Service,
  > Lady Collys Bythesea


  =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  To unsubscribe from this list, send email to <majordomo@castle.org>
  with a blank Subject: line and
  unsubscribe scribes
  in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in
  the body.



- ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C21C2B.1B3DC680
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My Lord husband does my =
calligraphy for=20
me and he uses a "carrot penholder" from Paper ink Arts.&nbsp; It =
has&nbsp;a=20
very thick handle.&nbsp; It is made for ppl with carpal tunnel and =
arthritis=20
sufferers.&nbsp;&nbsp;Its made from rosewood, and very pretty.&nbsp; =
This holder=20
accepts all the standard nibs.&nbsp; They have them for =
$12.95.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have found that practicing=20
calligraphy with them is much easier for me than the normal =
size.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hope this helps!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Lady Mea the Bold</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hartstone/=C6thelmearc</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dpixel@hundred-acre-wood.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com">Pixel, Goddess and =
Queen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Dscribes@castle.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:scribes@castle.org">scribes@castle.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 25, 2002 =
9:04=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [scribes]: Comfort =
grip=20
  paint brushes </DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>I bought a few (they have an 18/0!) the last time I was =
at=20
  Michael's, <BR>since they were on sale, and I finally got around to =
using=20
  them. I have a <BR>bad habit of gripping brushes and pens too tightly, =
and my=20
  <BR>not-carpal-tunnel RSI problem does not like that.<BR><BR>I didn't =
notice=20
  that the shape of the grip made a whole lot of difference, <BR>but =
having a=20
  thicker brush handle was a godsend. I could actually finish <BR>all of =
the=20
  vines before my hand started to complain too loudly.<BR><BR>I still =
haven't=20
  found a good solution for the calligraphy, but at least <BR>now I can =
paint=20
  again.<BR><BR>Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent<BR><BR><BR>On Mon, 24 Jun =
2002, K.=20
  Z. wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hello group,<BR>&gt; I have been looking for =
brushes for=20
  people with arthritis and carpal tunnel <BR>&gt; syndrom. My hands go =
numb=20
  when painting because I tend to grip the skinny <BR>&gt; little =
brushes=20
  tightly. I found some brushes that are FABU to say the least. <BR>&gt; =
Here=20
  are two websites for information and a good deal on them. Just thought =

  <BR>&gt; I would pass this along. No I do not own stock in the =
company.=20
  :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Loew-Cornell Company: Comfort grip brushes<BR>&gt; =
<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.loew-cornell.com/">http://www.loew-cornell.com/</A><BR=
>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; The Artist Club suppliers:<BR>&gt; <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.artistsclub.com/lobby.asp">http://www.artistsclub.com/=
lobby.asp</A><BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; In Service,<BR>&gt; Lady Collys=20
  =
Bythesea<BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<=
BR>To=20
  unsubscribe from this list, send email to &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:majordomo@castle.org">majordomo@castle.org</A>&gt;<BR>with=
 a=20
  blank Subject: line and<BR>unsubscribe scribes<BR>in the body of the =
message.=20
  Do not include any additional text in<BR>the=20
body.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 06:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barb Ding <dorrenash@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Looking for a Chinese Scribe

Please reply dierctly to Eldritch, not to me!  

Dorren

- --- "Miller, Matthew D" 
> Subject: RE: Chinese Scribe
> To: "'Barb Ding'" <dorrenash@yahoo.com>
> 
> Please do post my request. That would be lovely.
> 
> I'm interested in finding somebody who can do the
> large style Chinese
> calligraphy where each character takes up about a
> third of a regular page or
> so. What I would like made has a large
> four-character phrase in the center
> column with five smaller characters to either side
> of it. Any illumination
> would be awesome, but not at all neccessary.
> 
> Contact sercus@2d12.com if you're interested.
> 
>  ~ Eldritch
>


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:30:10 -0400
From: "Holly" <res0vxr9@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 

Have you tried those slip-on gripper thingys?  They go right over the handle
& are made of either rubber or soft plastic of some sort.  I know Office
Depot has them, haven't looked in Pearl lately, though I imagine they would
carry them too..

:-)---Holly---<--<-@



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On
> Behalf Of Pixel, Goddess and Queen
>
> I bought a few (they have an 18/0!) the last time I was at Michael's,
> since they were on sale, and I finally got around to using them. I have a
> bad habit of gripping brushes and pens too tightly, and my
> not-carpal-tunnel RSI problem does not like that.
>
> I didn't notice that the shape of the grip made a whole lot of
> difference,
> but having a thicker brush handle was a godsend. I could actually finish
> all of the vines before my hand started to complain too loudly.
>
> I still haven't found a good solution for the calligraphy, but at least
> now I can paint again.
>
> Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, K. Z. wrote:
>
> >
> > Loew-Cornell Company: Comfort grip brushes
> > http://www.loew-cornell.com/
> >
> > The Artist Club suppliers:
> > http://www.artistsclub.com/lobby.asp
> >
> > In Service,
> > Lady Collys Bythesea
>

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:32:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" <hughesjp@fyi.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere.  I have paid for woodwork in
Ealdormere.  I bet fighters pay for armor there.  I bet some folks are
paid to make costumes.  And the difference is?

Graidhne

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Melaena wrote:

> understand the recipients reimbursing the scribe for materials, especially
> if they are expensive ie parchment and gold leaf, I don't grok the concept
> of charging for one's work in the SCA.  Possibly because I've played mostly
> in Ealdormere where that is pretty much unheard of.  Do other kingdoms do
> this routinely?  I could even kind of see barter more, especially where the
> recipient was just making a "thank-you" present and not actually trying to
> duplicate the hours of work.

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:01:14 -0500
From: "P.E. Chadwick" <aikiko@ameritech.net>
Subject: [scribes]: Fwd: [MK-SCRIBES] Award recommendation data base

Greetings Unto One and All, 
I hope you don't mind me posting, but I do know there are several people from other kingdoms who have made award recommendation to the Middle.  Keep recommending! 
In Service to the Scribal Arts and having fun learning more about it. 
Lady Akiko Catherine O'Brien 
Middle Kingdom




>Greetings unto all from the Dragon Signet-
>
>Just a bit of news about the awards database that I wanted to pass on
>and then ask you to pass on as well. Master Daffyd is in the process
>of updating and cleaning up the awards database and as a result any
>awards entered before January 2001 and not updated have rolled off
>the data base. As stated in Her Majesty's message "Whatever Happened
>to me Award Recommendation?", once the last noted event on a
>recommendation has passed the rec no longer shows up except under the
>gentle's name. Court lists are usually sorted by event by TRM; they
>very rarely look up an individual by name unless they want more info.
>Thus the only sure way to keep a rec in front of them is to make sure
>events attended are updated on a regular basis. I hope this makes
>sense; if not please contact me and I will try to explain it to you
>in more detail. Please pass this on to as many people as possible in
>the Midrealm as this does affect everybody. It would be a shame if
>someone you felt was worthy of an award but the rec you sent in
>wasn't updated. If at first you don't succeed, try try again. And
>encourage your friends to write said gentle in as well; the more the
>merrier or something similar.
>
>I Remain in Service to the Midrealm
>
>Kassia 
>Dragon Signet
>
>
>
>_


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:36:17 -0500 (EST)
From: john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

Dear Graidhne,

> I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere.  I have paid for woodwork in
> Ealdormere.  I bet fighters pay for armor there.  I bet some folks are
> paid to make costumes.  And the difference is?

This is a problem whose solution took me a while to think through. The
difference is, most scribal activity is focused on awards; and awards are
not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and the scroll (hand-done or
xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is attached to the gift in a way
a coronet is not. I think award scrolls pick up this cachet of "gift"
rather than "regalia" or "equipment" and scribes pick up the corresponding
self-definition of "gift-givers" rather than "paid craftspeople" -- see
what a virtue we have made of doing scribing for free!

- -- johannes


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chendra <redstonegroup@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

- --- john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu> wrote:

> The
> difference is, most scribal activity is focused on
> awards; and awards are
> not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and the
> scroll (hand-done or
> xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is
> attached to the gift in a way
> a coronet is not. 

So by this logic, shouldn't all coronets be gifts as
well, since they are also awards and therefore gifts
from the crown? 

- -the redhead-


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:14:40 -0700
From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises?

>>The thread on the Caid-laurels list at this point about the use of silk
as a
layer of clothing mentioned something about silk being specifically NOT
water absorbent, and NOT wicking away moisture like linen and cotton do.
  So maybe the solution to the clothlet problem is to use linen instead of
silk.<<

Maybe so, Eowyn, although I'm pretty sure that Cenini mentions clothlets
made from silk.  At the time, I didn't have any linen handy to experiment
with, although I do now.  So maybe I'll give it a try this evening - Don's
off to the East Coast this morning, so I won't get weird looks from him if
I'm mashing irises in the kitchen.

Tetchubah

Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war.

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:01:26 -0700
From: ren.touch@juno.com
Subject: [scribes]: self valued : Re: Final price

Greetings all
My two small coins : 

Not being a scribe per se, I mostly try to lurk and learn. 
( and have learned plenty , thank you )
I am more a support person ( so far ) in regards the scribble arts .

I am a dilettante  a dabbler . I do / have done , massage, photography,
yard work, fix your car, clean your gutters,  and what ever else .
Including  a slew of "normal " paycheck jobs .
I have worked for free and felt better than getting  money. I have
bartered .
 I have charged what I could, I have charged what I thought they could
afford .( both high and low )

Value of items and Services :

First off, I value and am often  in awe of the work I see.
Thank you all for every award or piece of art i have seen and got to
enjoy.
I love it when the award is shown off and the scribes thanked .

As a collector (and do-er) of many things , I know, the first rule to
remember when you look in the "price book etc " is "some thing is worth
what some one will give for it . "
It is not consistent these are Guides .

It is also  very subjective .
 Which piece is "worth " more ?
 The one that a person gives every cent on their person and maybe the
rent too. 
Or 
The rich guy that lays a Grand on you ?

The one where they smile so big they cant speak?

Which one do you want to do? & do you value higher?
the one that the person says " I can't pay much, but,  I love your work
."
or 
"Cost is no matter I  want  / need it next week."

If I have my thoughts straight .
The difference is doing an Award is part of your game , a part of your
persona, your gift to the dream.
Doing some thing you love is not  "work " or does not feel like it .

If you are doing it for money or trade it may be come "work " and you may
not like it .
A commission is just that a contract and trade or recompense in inherent
in it .

One of the big mistakes in self employment is not charging enough . That
is both in making ends meet and valuing your work . Funny if you charge
more people seem to think you must be better and worth it .

I suggest if you want to make money or barter, then  find a happy balance
.
Do your awards for the dream and take some commissions
( or out of society work ) to earn some money. remember the focus is
different and try not to mix the two .

Examine your mind and heart before, during and after this process .
Decide if you can work for money. Some can't and no shame there .

Be up front on commissions ,  go to galleries and art shops and ask how
much would this be ? Tell them you are looking at  estimated X hours @ X
per .
Pick jobs that you like  and / or challenge you . Feel free to say no ,
but so and so might do it .
You can also say what will you pay? what can you pay or trade?

If both parties are happy it is a Good Deal.

Value your Self and your Work , that is the important thing . 

I have heard it said ,
" A job well done is its own reward "

Enough rambling soap box for now .
In service 
 L . Johann(es) Fairhand 
( PS don't start charging for awards yet , I still have to get mine done.
 )

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

- --- Chendra <redstonegroup@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu> wrote:
> > The difference is, most scribal activity is focused on
> > awards; and awards are not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and
> > the scroll (hand-done or xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is
> > attached to the gift in a way a coronet is not. 
> 
> So by this logic, shouldn't all coronets be gifts as
> well, since they are also awards and therefore gifts
> from the crown? 
> 
> -the redhead-

I can see how logic would seem that way, however generally the scroll would
not be considered the 'gift', so much as the title that goes with it is the
gift... but by tradition (and if something is done twice or three times, it
becomes a tradition in the SCA!!), the scrolls go with the title as a 'gift'
from the crown.  

I agree that the scroll would be a testiment to the award given, as if the
recipient moved, they could produce the signed scrolls as support to their
claims on a title.  Historically, such a scroll would not have been done as
a 'book of hours' page, as we have 'traditionally' done, but rather a simple
inked legal 'document' with little flourish. 

As for coronets being 'gifts' from the Crown, in Ansteorra, the Crown has a
cache of simple inexpensive brass fillets of 1.5-2 inch sizes, that they
present, which is oft replaced later when the recipient commissions
something of their own from an artisan.  In this case, the coronet is indeed
a 'gift' from the Crown. 

Hillary Greenslade, Ansteorra
 

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hillary Greenslade <hillaryrg@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

- --- john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu> wrote:
> Dear Graidhne,
> > I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere.  I have paid for woodwork in
> > Ealdormere.  I bet fighters pay for armor there.  I bet some folks are
> > paid to make costumes.  And the difference is?
> 
> This is a problem whose solution took me a while to think through. The
> difference is, most scribal activity is focused on awards; and awards are
> not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and the scroll (hand-done or
> xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is attached to the gift in a way
> a coronet is not. I think award scrolls pick up this cachet of "gift"
> rather than "regalia" or "equipment" and scribes pick up the corresponding
> self-definition of "gift-givers" rather than "paid craftspeople" -- see
> what a virtue we have made of doing scribing for free!
> -- johannes

Your absolutely right.  But, once the tradition of scroll giving has begun,
it's difficult to break it.  And who would pay the scriptorium fees?   The
Crown?  The recipient of the award?

I would add that in Ansteorra, our top kingdom scribal officers, do get some
reimbursement for paper and paint supplies from the kingdom (when they
bother to turn in receipts), for the charters painted at the 'paint' parties
throughout the year.  I'm not sure, but I think there is a budget for some
of the expenses.  

Of course, the 'payment' to the scribal artisans can come more subtly, when
the Crown reads the name of the scribe as the scroll is given, and held up
for all to 'oh' and 'ah' over; and when the scribal officers, nobility and
royalty, make note of the work and artistry of the scribes and send
recommendations for awards and favor to be given when due.  Wordfame and
recognition can certainly help 'compensate' for a lack of financial reward
(sometimes). 

Hillary Greenslade, Ansteorra






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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:44:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com>
Subject: RE: [scribes]: Comfort grip paint brushes 

Thank you for the suggestions.

Being the alien mutant freak that I am, I have to be *different*. I don't 
have carpal tunnel, I have some weird problem with the nerves in the 
*outside* of my hands, specifically the ones that run to my ring and pinky 
fingers. So nifty soft grips and big excitingly chunky pen holders only go 
so far--they help with the death grip problem, but they do not help with 
the nerve problem, nor do they help with the cysts-on-the-thumb-tendon 
problem, nor the not-quite-explicable-pain-in-the-index-knuckle problem. 
See? Alien mutant freak syndrome.

I've tried the squishy grip things. I've tried the Crayola model magic 
stuff. I have managed to quell some of the shaking, with some wonderful 
advice from someone on the list whose name I have embarrassingly 
forgotten. Next I shall try splinting the last two fingers with popsicle 
sticks to keep me from curling them under while I callig, and see how that 
works.

My sweetie has pointed out that if I would learn an illumination 
style that worked with his Gothic hand, then he could do the calligraphy. 
He has a point.

Margaret FitzWilliam



On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Holly wrote:

> Have you tried those slip-on gripper thingys?  They go right over the handle
> & are made of either rubber or soft plastic of some sort.  I know Office
> Depot has them, haven't looked in Pearl lately, though I imagine they would
> carry them too..
> 
> :-)---Holly---<--<-@
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On
> > Behalf Of Pixel, Goddess and Queen
> >
> > I bought a few (they have an 18/0!) the last time I was at Michael's,
> > since they were on sale, and I finally got around to using them. I have a
> > bad habit of gripping brushes and pens too tightly, and my
> > not-carpal-tunnel RSI problem does not like that.
> >
> > I didn't notice that the shape of the grip made a whole lot of
> > difference,
> > but having a thicker brush handle was a godsend. I could actually finish
> > all of the vines before my hand started to complain too loudly.
> >
> > I still haven't found a good solution for the calligraphy, but at least
> > now I can paint again.
> >
> > Margaret FitzWilliam of Kent
> >

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:33:30 EDT
From: PDRUSS@aol.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price

- --part1_16a.fa01a15.2a4a1f8a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/25/02 11:40:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jcash@indiana.edu writes:


> 
> Dear Graidhne,
> 
> > I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere.  I have paid for woodwork in
> > Ealdormere.  I bet fighters pay for armor there.  I bet some folks are
> > paid to make costumes.  And the difference is?
> 
> This is a problem whose solution took me a while to think through. The
> difference is, most scribal activity is focused on awards; and awards are
> not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and the scroll (hand-done or
> xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is attached to the gift in a way
> a coronet is not. I think award scrolls pick up this cachet of "gift"
> rather than "regalia" or "equipment" and scribes pick up the corresponding
> self-definition of "gift-givers" rather than "paid craftspeople" -- see
> what a virtue we have made of doing scribing for free!
> 
> -- johannes
> 
> 



Hi, 

Painting scrolls is my service to the Kingdom, instead of standing gate 
guard, cooking feast or cleaning toilets. 

Our Kingdom will provide some paper and paint for the scribes, but as I 
rarely get to event to collect it I just use my own, but we do have the 
option of using the Kingdom supplies. 

I'm not a professional, I just love to paint.

Tamara

- --part1_16a.fa01a15.2a4a1f8a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/25/02 11:40:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcash@indiana.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
Dear Graidhne,<BR>
<BR>
&gt; I have paid for a coronet in Ealdormere.&nbsp; I have paid for woodwork in<BR>
&gt; Ealdormere.&nbsp; I bet fighters pay for armor there.&nbsp; I bet some folks are<BR>
&gt; paid to make costumes.&nbsp; And the difference is?<BR>
<BR>
This is a problem whose solution took me a while to think through. The<BR>
difference is, most scribal activity is focused on awards; and awards are<BR>
not bought. Awards are gifts (of the Crown), and the scroll (hand-done or<BR>
xeroxed) is testament to the gift, and so is attached to the gift in a way<BR>
a coronet is not. I think award scrolls pick up this cachet of "gift"<BR>
rather than "regalia" or "equipment" and scribes pick up the corresponding<BR>
self-definition of "gift-givers" rather than "paid craftspeople" -- see<BR>
what a virtue we have made of doing scribing for free!<BR>
<BR>
- -- johannes<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi, <BR>
<BR>
Painting scrolls is my service to the Kingdom, instead of standing gate guard, cooking feast or cleaning toilets. <BR>
<BR>
Our Kingdom will provide some paper and paint for the scribes, but as I rarely get to event to collect it I just use my own, but we do have the option of using the Kingdom supplies. <BR>
<BR>
I'm not a professional, I just love to paint.<BR>
<BR>
Tamara<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_16a.fa01a15.2a4a1f8a_boundary--
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End of scribes digest V8 #8
***************************