From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #5 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, June 24 2002 Volume 08 : Number 005 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: SCA Scribes Webring [scribes]: Gorgeous eBay item [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout Re: [scribes]: Gorgeous eBay item Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout Re: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout RE: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout [scribes]: Belt Book/Girdle Book Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price [scribes]: more on girdle books Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price Re: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:44:45 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: SCA Scribes Webring - --part1_17.2a238b6c.2a47a95d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ring hubpage can be found at: http://r.webring.com/hub?ring=thescascribesweb Finally fixed my own page, after coming home exhausted last night from Six Flags in NJ (5 rollercoasters in 1 day). Try typing (or scribing) straight after that.... ;) Anyone still interested in joining the hub/ring can just drop by the page and follow the instructions on navigation bar code, etc. Have a great weekend.... - --Kayleigh - --part1_17.2a238b6c.2a47a95d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The ring hubpage can be found at:

http://r.webring.com/hub?ring=thescascribesweb

Finally fixed my own page, after coming home exhausted last night from Six Flags in NJ (5 rollercoasters in 1 day). Try typing (or scribing) straight after that.... ;)

Anyone still interested in joining the hub/ring can just drop by the page and follow the instructions on navigation bar code, etc.

Have a great weekend....

--Kayleigh - --part1_17.2a238b6c.2a47a95d_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:16:42 -0400 From: "Dianne and Greg Stucki" Subject: [scribes]: Gorgeous eBay item This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C21AF2.E3835CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1544742249 Laurensa Take hold of your inner dragon and horde not. - ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C21AF2.E3835CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1544742249

Laurensa

Take hold of your inner dragon and = horde=20 not.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C21AF2.E3835CC0-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:04:20 -0500 From: "Dawn" Subject: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout The handout from my KWHSAS class (Titivillus and You) has been uploaded to the TrimariScribes list on Yahoo. It's in the file section - which I have made public, so anyone should be able to access it. Please let me know if you cannot open it, and I will email it to you. Please feel free to send comments and suggestions for an expanded article, if you like. In service, Madeleine de Somerville =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:38:02 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gorgeous eBay item http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1544742249 Oh.........................sigh.........................don't I wish I had a lot of money to throw around..................this will probably end up in the hands of some wealty collector, and pray, gentles, pray, that this doesn't get broken and sold off as individual leaves. Sadly, this happens a lot more than you think it does. Had dinner just last week with a private MS. collector who told me horror stories of book breaking, and how common it is in the MS. market. Pray that some nice museum will get this piece, or a collector with reverance for Manuscripts who won't break this book, not after 500 years as complete book. Well, when I win the lottery, or marry some nice rich man, or inherit untold millions from some unknown rich relative..................(sigh) I can dream, can't I? :-/ ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 21:40:06 -0500 From: "Dawn" Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout You have to start at www.yahoogroups.com and search for TrimariScribes. It should take you right there. Madeleine - ---------- >From: Susan Arthur >To: "Dawn" >Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout >Date: Sun, Jun 23, 2002, 8:48 PM > > At 09:04 PM 6/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: >>The handout from my KWHSAS class (Titivillus and You) has been uploaded to >>the TrimariScribes list on Yahoo. It's in the file section - which I have >>made public, so anyone should be able to access it. > > Okay, I'm probably missing something terribly obvious, but how do I get to > the TrimariScribes list? Yahoo keeps telling me it finds no matches. > > Lucia > (maybe too tired to be looking tonight!) > > > =========================== > Lucia Bellini > Baroness, Windmasters' Hill > Companion of the Pearl > Guildmistress, Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium > http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Lucia/index.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:30:11 -0500 From: "Bridget the Stargazer" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers >From: wyverns >To: scribes@castle.org >Subject: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers >Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:51:00 -0500 > >I don't know the correct name for them either, but I now have >instructions for making a couple of styles from a class at Lilies War, >if anyone is interested. If you're talking about the book cover I think you are, they're called girdle books. I found two sites with info on them. One is a How-to and the other is a definition. http://www.virtue.to/articles/girdlebook.html http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt1538.html >I don't have scan capability at the moment so >I'll need your snail mail address if you want a copy. Essentially, its >a cloth book cover that incases the cover of a book and (as one design >option) has a long tag of cloth for carrying it from a belt. >Traditionally such things were used for very small, stiffly bound books >so, for a notebook, i would recommend a smaller-sized blank journal book >rather than a soft notebook, which might be inclined to slip out if >bounced around. The cover 'recipis' I have are intended to fit books of >a given size (your choice) and can be slipped from one book to another >of the same size with relative ease. > >Enid I've made two so far. The first one was glued in place. a small chunky spiral notebook glued to a length of gray fabric. For the second one, I took some time and worked it out on paper, then made a "mock-up" from a scrap of cloth. The notebook I used for the second one was one of those tiny composition books (the ones with the black and white speckled covers). I've found three sizes of them and like the smallest as it will be the most convenient hanging from my belt. The second one is sewn and the book can be replaced when it is full. While the site above says leather or velvets and brocades were used. I don't have leftovers of those types of materials yet so mine are made from the extra fabric from recent garb projects. I also put a loop in the fold to hold one of my ever-elusive cheap stick pens (not period, but I won't be distraught if it falls out while I chase after children). Hope this is helpful, Bridget _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:41:39 EDT From: PDRUSS@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout - --part1_15f.fa9fab3.2a47fd03_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try putting this URL in your browser http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TrimariScribes/files/Titivillus%20and%20You - --part1_15f.fa9fab3.2a47fd03_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try putting this URL in your browser

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TrimariScribes/files/Titivillus%20and%20You
- --part1_15f.fa9fab3.2a47fd03_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:55:57 -0400 From: "Holly" Subject: RE: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout People who are not members of that Yahoo group may not be able to get the file. I am willing to e-mail it to anyone who drops me a line off list. It's in the original .doc format just as Melesse uploaded it, but I can convert it to plain text in about ten seconds if needed. :-)---Holly---<--<-@ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On Behalf Of PDRUSS@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:42 AM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS Class Handout Try putting this URL in your browser http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TrimariScribes/files/Titivillus%20and%20You =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:52:31 -0100 From: "Alienor" Subject: [scribes]: Belt Book/Girdle Book This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01C21B5C.799A6D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lady Elianora Matthewes of AEthelmearc has done extensive research on = both girdle books and belt books. (Perhaps she's vacationing at the = moment, because I haven't noticed her popping in on recent discussions.) = The girdle book is as described in earlier posts. The belt book (I'm = not sure it's real name is known--if it had one) is a different animal. = It hangs from the belt and in shape reminds me of the packs of color = strips you get from Sherman Williams--long and skinny. At the class = that Lady Elianora gave on this type of book, she told us that it was = frequently used by doctors to carry around such things as urine charts = or by traveling friars to carry around the calendar and lectionary. = When we made them, we took a sheet of 8 1/2 by 11 paper and folded it in = thirds lengthwise and then in half. At the top, where it was folded we = notched the pages and then sewed it together, so that you could open the = book and then open out the pages to 8 1/2 by 5 inch individual sheets. = Sorry this isn't a great explanation. Hopefully Lady Elianora is = teaching this class again at Pennsic???? Cheers, Alienora - ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01C21B5C.799A6D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lady Elianora Matthewes of AEthelmearc = has done=20 extensive research on both girdle books and belt books. (Perhaps = she's=20 vacationing at the moment, because I haven't noticed her popping in on = recent=20 discussions.) The girdle book is as described in earlier = posts. The=20 belt book (I'm not sure it's real name is known--if it had one) is a = different=20 animal. It hangs from the belt and in shape reminds me of the = packs of=20 color strips you get from Sherman Williams--long and skinny. At = the class=20 that Lady Elianora gave on this type of book, she told us that it was = frequently=20 used by doctors to carry around such things as urine charts or by = traveling=20 friars to carry around the calendar and lectionary. When we made = them, we=20 took a sheet of 8 1/2 by 11 paper and folded it in thirds lengthwise and = then in=20 half. At the top, where it was folded we notched the pages = and then=20 sewed it together, so that you could open the book and then open out the = pages=20 to 8 1/2 by 5 inch individual sheets. Sorry this isn't a great=20 explanation. Hopefully Lady Elianora is teaching this class again = at=20 Pennsic????

Cheers,

Alienora

- ------=_NextPart_000_0135_01C21B5C.799A6D20-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 05:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michelle -TJ- King Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price > Is it the SCA culture which states that if something > does not perform a > practical function it has less value? Is it that > the generosity of the > scribes, who donate their time and efforts so that > the crown may give away > original pieces of art, have depreciated the value > of their work by doing so? > Or are people just clueless in general? I was clueless until several years ago. I took on a commission that I didn't really want, at the price of $100. I thought such a "high" price would dissuade them. To the contrary, they readily agreed, and loved the work so much I've gotten several other commissions through them. My lord husband says it's time for me to raise the price again...but it still feels 'wrong' somehow. Cheers, Violante __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:28:20 -0400 From: "K. Z." Subject: [scribes]: more on girdle books Here are two other sites I found on the Girdle books. Collys http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~eve/book_arts/girdle/girdles.html http://www.parma.bc.ca/articles/girdle.html Only a Pirates life for me. Mutiny is only a difference in opinions. Terra Marique Potens (Powerful by land and sea). _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:34:55 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price >I was clueless until several years ago. I took on a >commission that I didn't really want, at the price of >$100. I thought such a "high" price would dissuade >them. To the contrary, they readily agreed, and loved >the work so much I've gotten several other commissions >through them. My lord husband says it's time for me >to raise the price again...but it still feels 'wrong' >somehow. My mundane work goes for upwards of $1500, some for as little as $150. I don't feel a bit guilty about charging what I do. I tell the people up front that they are (usually) talking about at least 40 hours worth of work and how much do they get paid for a week's work? Then add on the materials, as well as the price one pays for someone who knows what they are doing in a specialized field and I haven't yet had anyone argue that my prices are fair. I've had a couple of people back down on what they want, making the design and elements simpler so as not to have so much of a time charge. I've also had people tell me that they would love for me to do the work but they can't afford me and they aren't willing to change what they want. I stick to my price. Yes, I've lost some commissions this way but I'm good at what I do and I don't have to be cheap. Smiles, Despina - ---------- Work Home/SCA Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil Domina Despina de la Brasov Program Coordinator 308 West John St 222c Bevier Champaign, IL 61820 905 S. Goodwin Ave Midlands, Middle Kingdom Urbana, IL 61801 aheilvei@uiuc.edu aheilvei@uiuc.edu http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~aheilvei/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:40:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers The Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands gave out girdle books as feast tokens for a Coronation hosted here 2 years ago (the coronation of Cygnus and Dorinda; highly appropriate for a couple of consummate scribes, don't you think?) They were way cool, and had the event booklet stitched into the center, giving things like the event schedule, feast menu and recipes, etc. The AEthelmearc Pages School (also run by a consummate scribe, THL Antoinette de la Croix) also uses girdle books as their service record booklet; they hang from the youth's belt like a little red flag that says, "Pick me to help you! Pick me!" Graidhne On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Bridget the Stargazer wrote: > > > > >From: wyverns > >To: scribes@castle.org > >Subject: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers > >Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:51:00 -0500 > > > >I don't know the correct name for them either, but I now have > >instructions for making a couple of styles from a class at Lilies War, > >if anyone is interested. > > If you're talking about the book cover I think you are, they're called > girdle books. I found two sites with info on them. One is a How-to and the > other is a definition. > > http://www.virtue.to/articles/girdlebook.html > > http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt1538.html > > > >I don't have scan capability at the moment so > >I'll need your snail mail address if you want a copy. Essentially, its > >a cloth book cover that incases the cover of a book and (as one design > >option) has a long tag of cloth for carrying it from a belt. > >Traditionally such things were used for very small, stiffly bound books > >so, for a notebook, i would recommend a smaller-sized blank journal book > >rather than a soft notebook, which might be inclined to slip out if > >bounced around. The cover 'recipis' I have are intended to fit books of > >a given size (your choice) and can be slipped from one book to another > >of the same size with relative ease. > > > >Enid > > I've made two so far. The first one was glued in place. a small chunky > spiral notebook glued to a length of gray fabric. For the second one, I took > some time and worked it out on paper, then made a "mock-up" from a scrap of > cloth. The notebook I used for the second one was one of those tiny > composition books (the ones with the black and white speckled covers). I've > found three sizes of them and like the smallest as it will be the most > convenient hanging from my belt. The second one is sewn and the book can be > replaced when it is full. While the site above says leather or velvets and > brocades were used. I don't have leftovers of those types of materials yet > so mine are made from the extra fabric from recent garb projects. I also put > a loop in the fold to hold one of my ever-elusive cheap stick pens (not > period, but I won't be distraught if it falls out while I chase after > children). > > Hope this is helpful, > Bridget > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:23:15 EDT From: BessdeNevell@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price - --part1_9f.2926cfde.2a488553_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/2002 7:53:16 AM Central Daylight Time, dona_violante@yahoo.com writes: > My lord husband says it's time for me to raise the price again...but it > still feels 'wrong' somehow. He's probably right. :-) So, how come it feels "wrong"? Are we as SCA scribes (many without formal art training) just conditioned to be busy little worker bees who give without any regard? Is this tendency different for those who have been through formal art schools? Is there some sort of training given to those who forge out into the urban jungle as professional artists on how to value their work? What materials are you using? Sure you've probably already got them around the house, but they will need to be replaced eventually. How much did those materials cost you? How many works can you get out of them? (Hint, divide here) How much is your time worth? How many hours do you put into your pieces? Did you have to rush the job? Did you have to re-prioritize other projects t o fit something else in? Did you stay up until all hours of the morning to make sure the work was on time? Has your skill level increased? Do you have more commissions under your belt? Experience counts. Another of my girlfriends who is a scribe keeps telling me that she has "sucker" written across her forehead. She did a backlog scroll, got it sealed and presented it to the recipient. He then dug out the promissory that he had been given years ago and asked her to redo it in a different style with the original words. AAUUGGGHH!!! I could have just screamed when she told me this. I can think of little as thoughtless as this was of the recipient. Yet, for all my questioning, I am still a devoted "service scribe". I live for seeing my scrolls given out in court and watching the people who've been honored show them off to their friends. I love the knowledge that my art proudly hangs in homes across the nation. These things make it worth while, I wouldn't give it up, I paint because it is my passion. But, I also believe that somewhere out there is a way to make SCAdians realize the true value of their pieces of art. I just haven't figured it out yet. Cheers! ~Bess - --part1_9f.2926cfde.2a488553_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/2002 7:53:16 AM Central Daylight Time, dona_violante@yahoo.com writes:

My lord husband says it's time for me to raise the price again...but it still feels 'wrong' somehow.

He's probably right. :-) So, how come it feels "wrong"? Are we as SCA scribes (many without formal art training) just conditioned to be busy little worker bees who give without any regard? Is this tendency different for those who have been through formal art schools? Is there some sort of training given to those who forge out into the urban jungle as professional artists on how to value their work?

What materials are you using? Sure you've probably already got them around the house, but they will need to be replaced eventually. How much did those materials cost you? How many works can you get out of them? (Hint, divide here)

How much is your time worth? How many hours do you put into your pieces? Did you have to rush the job? Did you have to re-prioritize other projects to fit something else in? Did you stay up until all hours of the morning to make sure the work was on time?

Has your skill level increased? Do you have more commissions under your belt? Experience counts.

Another of my girlfriends who is a scribe keeps telling me that she has "sucker" written across her forehead. She did a backlog scroll, got it sealed and presented it to the recipient. He then dug out the promissory that he had been given years ago and asked her to redo it in a different style with the original words. AAUUGGGHH!!! I could have just screamed when she told me this. I can think of little as thoughtless as this was of the recipient.

Yet, for all my questioning, I am still a devoted "service scribe". I live for seeing my scrolls given out in court and watching the people who've been honored show them off to their friends. I love the knowledge that my art proudly hangs in homes across the nation. These things make it worth while, I wouldn't give it up, I paint because it is my passion. But, I also believe that somewhere out there is a way to make SCAdians realize the true value of their pieces of art. I just haven't figured it out yet.

Cheers!

~Bess
- ------=____1024930684298_F94?uckpou-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:26:04 -0500 From: "Melaena" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price I'm a little confused here. Is this thread talking about charging for scrolls in the SCA? To me that's a very debatable issue. I realize I may be opening a hornet's nest and forgive me if this has been discussed to death already. Although I can understand the recipients reimbursing the scribe for materials, especially if they are expensive ie parchment and gold leaf, I don't grok the concept of charging for one's work in the SCA. Possibly because I've played mostly in Ealdormere where that is pretty much unheard of. Do other kingdoms do this routinely? I could even kind of see barter more, especially where the recipient was just making a "thank-you" present and not actually trying to duplicate the hours of work. I don't think I would ever charge for a scroll (aside from material costs, see above). I would be afraid that everyone else in the Society would start charging for their services. I would also worry that at the point of profit the "hobby" would become a "job" and that I would experience less enjoyment. One of the things that makes scribing so much fun for me is that there's little pressure and I can play around with things all I want. I realize that the recipients get a piece of (semi) original artwork, but for me the fun is in the doing. And this sounds sappy, but I love knowing that all across the Known World, little bits of Margareta's art are sitting happily on other people's walls. For me that is one of the coolest things about scribing. Here is a contentious issue: Who feels that the scribe should have some sort of control over the matting and framing process? I would never knowingly make a scroll for someone who had no intention of putting it on a wall ever. I've seen this happen a lot and it really steams me. Forty hours for a trinket that sits in a drawer. Argh! I would love to be able to say to the recipient: Okay, I will do you a scroll as long as you realize that you are honour-bound to get it hung in an appropriate manner! That will probably never happen but it's a nice fantasy. When I take on commissions for people I try to remember if they have scrolls hanging up in their house already. If they do then I generally say yes. Margareta vanden Velde Montengarde-Avacal-An Tir - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" To: "Scribes" Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price > > >I was clueless until several years ago. I took on a > >commission that I didn't really want, at the price of > >$100. I thought such a "high" price would dissuade > >them. To the contrary, they readily agreed, and loved > >the work so much I've gotten several other commissions > >through them. My lord husband says it's time for me > >to raise the price again...but it still feels 'wrong' > >somehow. > > My mundane work goes for upwards of $1500, some for as little as $150. I > don't feel a bit guilty about charging what I do. I tell the people up > front that they are (usually) talking about at least 40 hours worth of work > and how much do they get paid for a week's work? Then add on the > materials, as well as the price one pays for someone who knows what they > are doing in a specialized field and I haven't yet had anyone argue that my > prices are fair. > > I've had a couple of people back down on what they want, making the design > and elements simpler so as not to have so much of a time charge. I've also > had people tell me that they would love for me to do the work but they > can't afford me and they aren't willing to change what they want. I stick > to my price. Yes, I've lost some commissions this way but I'm good at what > I do and I don't have to be cheap. > > Smiles, > Despina > > > ---------- > Work Home/SCA > Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil Domina Despina de la Brasov > Program Coordinator 308 West John St > 222c Bevier Champaign, IL 61820 > 905 S. Goodwin Ave Midlands, Middle Kingdom > Urbana, IL 61801 aheilvei@uiuc.edu > aheilvei@uiuc.edu http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~aheilvei/ > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:22:43 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price >I find that my willingness to ask for money at *all* varies with..... >well, how to say this..... whether I think the commissioner can afford it. >I have done a fairly simple piece for a non-SCAdian and asked $250-- and >gotten it without hesitation. I can't imagine asking that much for even an >elaborate scroll from a SCAdian. (I was repeatedly reassured that my >non-SCAdian friend could easily afford it and would think it entirely >reasonable, and my friends were right.) I am more likely to ask to barter >within the society. Ideally, that would be done at the time the commission >was first broached; in fact it *absolutely* should be done then. I am >usually so flattered that whoever asks me specifically to do a scroll for >them that I forget, however. I am trying to figure a way to mention >something along the lines of "Would you like to barter for this?" even >after I've said I'll do it; perhaps at the time I actually start work. (I >have my own personal backlog. ;>) Is that fair? Is ! >there a good way to do it? Yes! There most certainly is: "I would love to do your scroll. In what style would you like to see it executed?" Let them answer. "Do you have a favorite type of handwriting/calligraphy that you want for it or would you like for me to just use the style that was most common for the year and country you have chosen?" Let them answer. "And how would you like to barter for this? I hear that you do lovely wood work and I would be quite happy to trade time spent on your scroll for time spent in the construction of a simple new bench for my campsite. Of course, we would compare costs and even out in dollars anything that isn't appropriate. (such as the cost of three oak boards vs a 15x20 piece of sheep vellum, I don't know which would cost more in this instance)." It's non confrontational, gets your point across and, often, gets you a great barter deal. It's part of the opening discussion, not an addendum for when you've finished the piece. My husband is getting a new spice box in this manner. He is trading time of cooking for time the person spends making the spice box and the monetary differences in the cost of the meal vs. cost of materials will be determined when they both finish. *grin* Barter is good. Barter gets you wonderful and beautiful stuff. Smiles, Despina =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #5 ***************************