From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #4 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, June 23 2002 Volume 08 : Number 004 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Announcing www.ScribalArts.org ! Re: [scribes]: Announcing www.ScribalArts.org ! [scribes]: RE: webrings [scribes]: Need Resource Links Re: [scribes]: SCA Scribes Webring Re: [scribes]: Medieval Master database/ article [scribes]: Re: chinese inks vs other inks Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises? RE: [scribes]: Ink from irises? Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? [scribes]: Re: Final price ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:51:54 -0400 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Announcing www.ScribalArts.org ! That sounds GREAT Cystennin! If you pull it off with the right content, your site will likely become a scribal web hub. There are a couple good sites out there that do that, but bringing it all together that way is pretty special. Which reminds me to ask, were any of us scribes out there clever enough to make a scribal web ring? How about two? One for image based sites and one for tech? RanthulfR "Kenneth A. Stoner" wrote: > > Greetings to you, the hard working Scribes of the Known World from Lord > Cystennin Ap Gereint > > At last, after many years of dreaming, planning, one aborted attempt, > and more dreaming... I am finally able to host my own web sites, on my > own server, with my own domain, all from my own home. > www.ScribalArts.org is finally a reality! > > Now all I have to do is find content to fill it with. > > ScribalArts.org is capable of being a full service hosting service. I am > offering free web space as well as email accounts to any SCA Scribe that > is interested. The site is completely based upon Microsoft (my employer) > products and is 100% compatible with the Microsoft Office suite of > products, including Word and FrontPage. This means that for many people > the process of creating their own web pages will be very easy, for most > just a matter of starting up FrontPage! For those that like to use more > traditional web technologies, I am able to support FTP updates, Java, > and Java-Script. > > For persons interested in more advanced web content, the site offers the > latest in Microsoft technologies, including SQL Server 2000, Active > Server Pages (ASP), the new .Net Framework (ASP+), and streaming media. > > I have lot's of plans: > - Free web pages for scribes with no advertising and no space > limitations. > - Free email accounts for scribes > - Broadband content including streaming video of Scribal demos, on-line > classes, and broadcast of interesting video's. > - A handy place to host information of interest to all scribes: > * Frequently asked Question List > * Articles by SCA Scribes > * Interesting links including links to suppliers of interest. > > While the site is still brand-new, it is up and can be browsed. Please > take a look around, kick the tires and tell me what you think. To get > things started, I am publishing all of the documentation I used for five > of my projects in the last Kingdom Arts and Sciences Contest for the > Kingdom of An Tir, in Word format, with pictures and everything. > > I also have a tres' cool web cam that on which you might be able to see > the web-sites mascots frolicking around on my floor! > > HL Cystennin Ap Gereint > Free Email and Web accounts for SCA Scribes! > Kingdom of An Tir > www.ScribalArts.org > > > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 14:41:47 -0700 From: Marty Stredwick Subject: Re: [scribes]: Announcing www.ScribalArts.org ! Greetings Cystennin ! Here I am getting back into the very things I love and find you doing this wondrous thing. The site looks good. I would like to participate. I have scrolls I need to get done for friends and but haven't dabbled much the last 3 1/2 years due to being busy at a Kingdom Level in An Tir for awhile.... I have, however, been working with our local scriptorium in River's Bend. I taught simple knotwork several years back and a couple of basic hands. So it is exciting for me to listen as everyone chats about their projects, ink making etc. I have so much to learn, to catch up on. Thank-you again for working on this for the better of the Society and particularly the scribal arts folks. Anderwyn na Sionain William Tell XVII Autocrat Baroness An Tir AoA, GdS 2x WOAW An Tir Kingdom Seneschal emeritus Senior member of River's Bend's service recognition Fellowship of the Cattail Lady of the House of Eala ........................................................................... "Enemies are the price of Honor, friends its reward." ........................................................................... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:27:54 -0400 From: "Holly" Subject: [scribes]: RE: webrings http://www.ringlink.org/ offers an open source Perl cgi program that makes it pretty easy to run one yourself.. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 19:19:53 -0700 From: "Kenneth A. Stoner" Subject: [scribes]: Need Resource Links Greetings to all you scribes! I want your scribal related links! :-) I also would like links to your personal home pages to post as well. I would like to get the resources page up this weekend if possible. Please send me your links. If you can, It would help if you categorized them if you have the time. Examples: Manuscript Site http://www.BritishLibrary.org/SomeFacsimile Scribal Supplies http://www.johnnealbooks.com/ Scribal Home Page http://www.FreeSites.com/MyHomePage I will get these links up as soon as I can. HL Cystennin Ap Gereint Free Email and Web accounts for SCA Scribes! Kingdom of An Tir www.ScribalArts.org =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:53:09 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: SCA Scribes Webring - --part1_c8.28b8f0fe.2a46bc45_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/02 12:51:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyaf@provide.net writes: > That sounds GREAT Cystennin! If you pull it off with the right content, > your site will likely become a scribal web hub. There are a couple good > sites out there that do that, but bringing it all together that way is > pretty special. > > Which reminds me to ask, were any of us scribes out there clever enough > to make a scribal web ring? How about two? One for image based sites and > one for tech? > > RanthulfR > > The scribal webring I started on Yahoo last year, "The SCA Scribes Webring" is still in existence, however, there haven't been many applications since its inception. A few comments were about how some people disliked (hated) Yahoo's system. The ring has since been re-taken over by webring, I still run it, but due to lack of interest and whatnot, I haven't been publishing the ring's homepage in my signature anymore. I'd still like to continue hosting it, but with only 6 or 7 scribes out of scads of them having actually applied for pages, I'm debating continuing to maintain the ring unless more applications come in soon. The original purpose of the ring was moreso to allow for scribes to link to each others' pages for glances at online portfolios, and SCA-scribing-related research materials anyone may have posted secondary on their pages. One of the other chief problems I'm having with the site right now is getting freeservers to recognize the HTML tags for the navbar for the same webring. :/ Otherwise, I had plans to eventually just start writing up links for my own webpages to other scribes' stuff. In any event, yes, there are webrings out there for the SCA scribes. Getting mine to work for me in particular is another problem entirely (other pages on the list work fine). Until next! - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (An Dubhaigheainn, East) E.Frank, Long Island NY - --part1_c8.28b8f0fe.2a46bc45_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/02 12:51:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, randyaf@provide.net writes:


That sounds GREAT Cystennin! If you pull it off with the right content,
your site will likely become a scribal web hub. There are a couple good
sites out there that do that, but bringing it all together that way is
pretty special.

Which reminds me to ask, were any of us scribes out there clever enough
to make a scribal web ring? How about two? One for image based sites and
one for tech?

RanthulfR



The scribal webring I started on Yahoo last year, "The SCA Scribes Webring" is still in existence, however, there haven't been many applications since its inception. A few comments were about how some people disliked (hated) Yahoo's system. The ring has since been re-taken over by webring, I still run it, but due to lack of interest and whatnot, I haven't been publishing the ring's homepage in my signature anymore.

I'd still like to continue hosting it, but with only 6 or 7 scribes out of scads of them having actually applied for pages, I'm debating continuing to maintain the ring unless more applications come in soon. The original purpose of the ring was moreso to allow for scribes to link to each others' pages for glances at online portfolios, and SCA-scribing-related research materials anyone may have posted secondary on their pages.

One of the other chief problems I'm having with the site right now is getting freeservers to recognize the HTML tags for the navbar for the same webring. :/
Otherwise, I had plans to eventually just start writing up links for my own webpages to other scribes' stuff.

In any event, yes, there are webrings out there for the SCA scribes. Getting mine to work for me in particular is another problem entirely (other pages on the list work fine).
Until next!

--Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (An Dubhaigheainn, East)
E.Frank, Long Island NY - --part1_c8.28b8f0fe.2a46bc45_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 02:34:39 EDT From: PDRUSS@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medieval Master database/ article - --part1_182.a03d440.2a46c5ff_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/02 4:40:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kenstone@scribalarts.org writes: > > I would love to publish these articles on the ScribalArts.org web site! > > Cystennin > Wow, this site will be so cool when you're done. I hope a lot more people post photos or links to their scrolls. I love looking at other people's work. Normally I don't get much of chance to sit and talk or view other people's work. Tamara >^..^< - --part1_182.a03d440.2a46c5ff_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/02 4:40:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kenstone@scribalarts.org writes:



I would love to publish these articles on the ScribalArts.org web site!

Cystennin





Wow, this site will be so cool when you're done. I hope a lot more people post photos or links to their scrolls. I love looking at other people's work. Normally I don't get much of chance to sit and talk or view other people's work.

Tamara  >^..^< - --part1_182.a03d440.2a46c5ff_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:48:28 +1000 From: Mark Calderwood Subject: [scribes]: Re: chinese inks vs other inks At 20:13 20/06/02 -0700, you wrote: >I have seen a few scrolls which say that they have been inked with Chinese >ink. i am wondering what this is? I presume it is similar to japanese >stick ink but would like to know for sure. JP, Are they my scrolls? I use a really good Chinese ink I get from Will's Quills in Sydney, which I think Will imports from Hong Kong. It is slightly thick so I dilute it very slightly, it's really densely black and slightly perfumed, and works equally well in a Mitchell nib, quill, brush or crowquill, on flat or slant. It even washes out of your clothes. It's the best ink I've ever found. It comes as a liquid rather than a stick, and is sold in a red box with chinese lettering and an ink painting of a large bird. I think it cost me $16 for a 250ml bottle, but it lasts forever. Email Will and ask him about it, they do mail order- the web site is www.willsquills.com.au I think, or drop me a line and I'll get you the phone number. Giles http://illuminare.virtualave.net =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:06:43 +1000 From: Mark Calderwood Subject: Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? At 09:35 21/06/02 -0700, you wrote: >some of the more prominent scribes and such. Can anyone throw out a few >names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names >would help too. It would be fun to see how many different names we can >come up with and from different regions and times. Sort of a comprehensive >list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators. There is a list and short bios of famous illuminators in the back of "Illuminated Manuscripts: The Book Before Gutenburg" by Giulia Bologna, and a lot of information in "Medieval Illuminators and Their Methods of Work" by JJG Alexander (Yale 1992)- far too much to reproduce here. This is a brilliant book that covers technical aspects, programmes and instructions for illuminators, period contracts for illumination, detailed studies of illuminators' work from the 7th to 15th centuries, and indicies of famous scribes, encriers (ink sellers), illuminators and patrons. Maybe this would be something for the Scribal Arts website? Giles =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:26:45 -0700 From: "Kenneth A. Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? One of the features that is being worked on at ScribalArts.org is a BOOK REVIEW section. It will be under the Scribal Resources page. I agree with Giles, the books below are a must-have for every SCA Author. I would like to ask for volunteers to write up book-reports/reviews for these books. If you are interested, please contact me. - -----Original Message----- From: Mark Calderwood [mailto:mark-c@acay.com.au] Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:07 AM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? At 09:35 21/06/02 -0700, you wrote: >some of the more prominent scribes and such. Can anyone throw out a few >names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names >would help too. It would be fun to see how many different names we can >come up with and from different regions and times. Sort of a comprehensive >list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators. There is a list and short bios of famous illuminators in the back of "Illuminated Manuscripts: The Book Before Gutenburg" by Giulia Bologna, and a lot of information in "Medieval Illuminators and Their Methods of Work" by JJG Alexander (Yale 1992)- far too much to reproduce here. This is a brilliant book that covers technical aspects, programmes and instructions for illuminators, period contracts for illumination, detailed studies of illuminators' work from the 7th to 15th centuries, and indicies of famous scribes, encriers (ink sellers), illuminators and patrons. Maybe this would be something for the Scribal Arts website? Giles =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:00:48 -0700 From: "Kenneth A. Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? Here are the links to the pages I have setup to handle these ideas. http://www.scribalarts.org/Resources/book_reviews.htm http://www.scribalarts.org/historical_artists.htm Please send your contributions to me. I will get them up on the web as soon as I get them! Cystennin - -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth A. Stoner Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:27 AM To: Mark Calderwood; scribes@castle.org Subject: RE: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? One of the features that is being worked on at ScribalArts.org is a BOOK REVIEW section. It will be under the Scribal Resources page. I agree with Giles, the books below are a must-have for every SCA Author. I would like to ask for volunteers to write up book-reports/reviews for these books. If you are interested, please contact me. - -----Original Message----- From: Mark Calderwood [mailto:mark-c@acay.com.au] Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:07 AM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? At 09:35 21/06/02 -0700, you wrote: >some of the more prominent scribes and such. Can anyone throw out a few >names and/or time periods and what country they were from, or just names >would help too. It would be fun to see how many different names we can >come up with and from different regions and times. Sort of a comprehensive >list of who's who's of historical medieval scribes and illuminators. There is a list and short bios of famous illuminators in the back of "Illuminated Manuscripts: The Book Before Gutenburg" by Giulia Bologna, and a lot of information in "Medieval Illuminators and Their Methods of Work" by JJG Alexander (Yale 1992)- far too much to reproduce here. This is a brilliant book that covers technical aspects, programmes and instructions for illuminators, period contracts for illumination, detailed studies of illuminators' work from the 7th to 15th centuries, and indicies of famous scribes, encriers (ink sellers), illuminators and patrons. Maybe this would be something for the Scribal Arts website? Giles =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 00:28:14 -0800 From: Heather Dorsett Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises? Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > I was experimenting with making Iris green last year, Heather. That might > be what you remember. Iris green isn't an ink, although I suppose you > could use it for one. It's supposed to be a paint color. It's made from > grinding fresh deep purple/blue irises, straining the juice from them, and > then adding alum. The alum turns the deep purple juice into a bright green > color. Both the purple and the green are fairly light fast, but they are > very light colored if used fresh. I'm going to try another batch this > weekend since my irises are blooming again, and just let the water > evaporate out of them to see if I can get something closer to dry pigment. That's exactly what I was thinking of. You said that the purple is also light fast--does that mean that the juice can be used by itself as well? I've never tried making pigments before, but the process sounds interesting, and in this case the raw material is just outside my front door...probably a dangerous combination..... ;-) Helena Ochastka Barony of Winter's Gate, West (Fairbanks, Alaska) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 01:50:38 -0700 From: "Kenneth A. Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Ink from irises? If I am not mistaken, the traditional method for using vegetable-based colors was to make clothlets with them. Basically, take some silk or linen and cut it up into squares about 10cm x 10cm. SOAK these clothlets in the color until it is completely laden with the color and allow them to dry. Store them in a paper bag or in wax paper until you are ready to use them. When you are ready to use the color, take out one of the clothlets and cut out a piece of it. Put the piece into a small Petri disk (the small sumi-bowls are perfect) and soak it with distilled water and a few drops of binder. The color will come out into the water-binder solution and you can use it to paint with. I have not done this with Iris, though Mistress Linnet experimented with it last year. As I recall, she ended up with a bluish green color. I did it this year with Brazil wood and it turned out really nice. I have the documentation for it here: http://www.scribalarts.org/ScribesHomePages/CystenninsDocs/Tools%20and%2 0Materials.doc You will need a MS-WORD to view it however. I also tried drying out the died-alum "stuff" and grinding it into gum water and the results were somewhat disappointing. Even though I filtered and strained the heck out of the dye before I dried it, there was still "pith" and "stuff" in the powder that would reconstitute when I added water and leave little "hair-balls" and colored "lint" where I painted it. With the clothlets the "pith" stuff seemed to bind to the cloth, leaving the colored gum-water clear of contaminants. Cystennin. - -----Original Message----- From: Heather Dorsett [mailto:hdorsett@alaska.net] Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 1:28 AM To: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com; scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink from irises? Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > I was experimenting with making Iris green last year, Heather. That might > be what you remember. Iris green isn't an ink, although I suppose you > could use it for one. It's supposed to be a paint color. It's made from > grinding fresh deep purple/blue irises, straining the juice from them, and > then adding alum. The alum turns the deep purple juice into a bright green > color. Both the purple and the green are fairly light fast, but they are > very light colored if used fresh. I'm going to try another batch this > weekend since my irises are blooming again, and just let the water > evaporate out of them to see if I can get something closer to dry pigment. That's exactly what I was thinking of. You said that the purple is also light fast--does that mean that the juice can be used by itself as well? I've never tried making pigments before, but the process sounds interesting, and in this case the raw material is just outside my front door...probably a dangerous combination..... ;-) Helena Ochastka Barony of Winter's Gate, West (Fairbanks, Alaska) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 09:25:30 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Some future alternatives for transporting ink... I use the sumi ink which comes in plastic bottles. I would never consider dipping my pen or even an eyedropper through the very narrow necks of those bottles! And when I travel, I want a minimum of supplies along. So... I got some VERY small little glass jars from Science and Surplus and fill one of those with ink - they hold enough for several scrolls. Since they are small, they tuck into my callig box and aren't particularly prine to breaking. For a more peiod look, such as at a demo, I dump the contents into a small ceramic pot (It may have been intended as an ink pot or as a bud vase, I'm not sure). the latter has the advantage of sloped upper edges for blotting some of the excess ink, whereas if I blot the ink on the jar, it gums up the edges a bit. enid KMcWhyte@aol.com wrote: > > I've got one better... > > This afternoon I was slinging my art bag over my shoulder (vinyl > carrying bag has trays and bottles in it), and I heard something slide > around. Got into the car, opened the bag when it was on the passenger > side, and noticed a gaping hole in the bottom of a newly bought glass > bottle that I had poured 2 bottles of Higgins Black Magic Ink into. > > Needless to say, what I did next really takes the cake. As I am > hurrying to put the flooded bag into a plastic bag in the back seat, > not only does it drip onto the front passenger seat, but spatters onto > the back seat too. The upholstery is light grey. The car is a 2000 > model, not a Jaguar or anything, but still my first new new car. I > managed to soak most of it up with water and seltzer so far, but > there's still dark grey blotches on the seats. > > I'm heading out to get True Green and a new, more sturdy, carrying > bag. > No more fragile tall glass jars for my ink, either. (Just wanted > something that didn't have such a narrow opening that requires > finagling when you get to the bottom of it...). > > --Kayleigh =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:31:12 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Final price To give a hint of 'value', I recently went to the art shows at a couple of SF cons... numbered Laser prints and Lithographs of pictures that were simpler and plainer (and in my view no more and possibly less 'professional' than most SCA scrolls I've seen) were going for $30-75, and they weren't framed, either, though some were matted. Can you imagine what the originals would go for? Most SCA recipients have no idea what they hold when they hold an original scroll. (Their appreciation of woodwork seems to be a little better; I've seen very simple benches and boxes go at fundraising auctions and for sale at merchants stands for upwards of $300. Maybe size does matter...) enid Sally Burnell wrote: > > > Apologies to those who get this multiple times. > > > > The coronet of infamy has been sold. > > > > The Final price was $147.50. > > Wow. Personally, I think it was worth more than that, but still, whoever got > it has a lovely piece of workmanship in their hands. Even if it had a > rather..........odd odyssey through its lifetime. > > > Remember, SCA artisans are artisans. They do good work, it's worth a lot > > on the open market. > > Of that, I will most heartily concur! I've been doing SCA for nearly 25 > years now, and I am amazed at the evolution of our craftsmanship. I look > back at stuff like our early scrolls, our attempts at armour, costuming and > other stuff we used back then (and I've gone back and looked at the old > photos of us back then.....) and it simply amazes me that we've come as far > as we have in the quarter century that I've been involved in this. > > I look at all of your stuff when I come to events, your armour, your > clothing, your acoutrements, the scrolls given at courts, and of course, all > of the entries in A&S Faires, and at times, I am simply left speechless at > the awesome talents and abilities I see before me. If we sold this stuff on > the open market, I cannot even begin to fathom the value of what we create. > > > Thank the person who made your scroll, sewed your clothes, cast your site > > token, threw your mug, or concocted your lunch, dinner, drink, etc.; it's > > nice to hear "thank you", and "nice work" even if it's a merchant who's > > making a (usually small) buck off of the stuff. It's especially nice to > > thank those who do these things for you with only the thought of helping > or > > producing something beautiful, useful, or tasty for someone else. > > Yes, I second that! Remember, we do what we do as a labour of love. We would > not do it otherwise. Our scrolls could fetch hundreds, and in some cases, > thousands of dollars on the open market. As could many of the things we > craft. I sometimes think we take it for granted that we do what we do, and > we see what we see at events. It's almost as if it's come to be expected > that you will walk in the door to find a hall filled with banners, a nice > list field surrounded by piles of armour and fighter gear, heavenly scents > of luncheons and feasts emanating from the kitchens nearby, merchant stalls > filled with a dazzling array of merchandise to peruse, gentles walking > around in various periods of garbs bantering with one another about this or > that - and scribes lovingly labouring on finishing the scrolls for that > night's court off in a Scribe's Room somewhere off the main event hall or > down the corridor in a classroom or someplace else on the event site. We > expect this, and yet it would not happen if we didn't work so hard to create > all these things you see when you arrive at an event. > > So next time you go to an event, thank an artisan for the work they do to > help create the atmosphere you see before you. You can bet your bottom > dollar that it will make someone's day. > > Oh, and be sure to thank the event staff, too. They worked hard to make it > all happen as well. Don't forget them, either. > > ~Saradwen > Midrealm > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:51:00 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: [scribes]: Belt book bag/covers I don't know the correct name for them either, but I now have instructions for making a couple of styles from a class at Lilies War, if anyone is interested. I don't have scan capability at the moment so I'll need your snail mail address if you want a copy. Essentially, its a cloth book cover that incases the cover of a book and (as one design option) has a long tag of cloth for carrying it from a belt. Traditionally such things were used for very small, stiffly bound books so, for a notebook, i would recommend a smaller-sized blank journal book rather than a soft notebook, which might be inclined to slip out if bounced around. The cover 'recipis' I have are intended to fit books of a given size (your choice) and can be slipped from one book to another of the same size with relative ease. Enid ren.touch@juno.com wrote: > > Greetings > I too suffer from small bits of paper . > I have gotten to the point or carrying in my pouch a small spiral bound > note book . > I find that it is great for well........ Notes..........Names , places , > #'S, Archery scores etc . > The more period looking solution I saw is a belt book > ( do not know if there is a proper name for it ) > It hangs like a favour and you turn it upwards and a pad or book is > exposed > Nifty thing is you do not have to dig for it. > Service > Johann Fairhand > > snip snip > but I can't remember her > name.  I > > seem to write these names on loose pieces of paper at events or > > think I'll> remember in good faith hoping I'll find them later.  Never > so!! I > > always> forget and can never find that one defining piece of paper! << > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:42:48 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: famous medival scribes/illuminators?? Cystennin, I'm rather curious... I thought you were going to do some sort of FAQ page last year... I was going to be one of the proofers for it, I thought. Just wondering. Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://ww1.comteck.com/~meisterin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:56:18 EDT From: BessdeNevell@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Final price - --part1_37.2958394d.2a4757b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/23/2002 10:25:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wyverns@earthlink.net writes: > To give a hint of 'value', I recently went to the art shows at a couple of > SF cons... numbered Laser prints and Lithographs of pictures that were > simpler and plainer (and in my view no more and possibly less > 'professional' than most SCA scrolls I've seen) I would have to agree that most recipients really have no clue of the value of their scrolls. But then, how many of us go out and purchase original art? My husband and I have been hitting the local galleries, guilds and art leagues as well as some summer art faires in our area. Though we've done this in the past, our goal this time was to compare my skill level and work to that of the artists that were on display. We found nothing that even comes close to the medieval manuscript style that we as SCA scribes work in. But when taking into consideration the difference in style and mediums, it is our opinion that quite a large number of SCA scribes surpass the level of skill then the majority of the displaying artists. Though I often have a great lack of confidence when displaying my work next to other SCA scribes, I don't think that I'd mind at all displaying in the local galleries. What is the relevance you ask? *None* of the works displayed at these galleries was priced for less than $150, and that was on the low LOW end. In comparison with these other pieces on display, I'd say that most of the work of Midrealm scribes would have to fit in the $300 - $500 category depending on the style and medium in use. And I *know* that some of our Laurels' works do command much more than that. Is it the SCA culture which states that if something does not perform a practical function it has less value? Is it that the generosity of the scribes, who donate their time and efforts so that the crown may give away original pieces of art, have depreciated the value of their work by doing so? Or are people just clueless in general? A friend of mine recently showed me a picture of a beautiful mundane commission which she did. She commented that she often has trouble knowing what her work should cost, and charged the patron of the piece $65. My response was simply that she did not charge him enough. I saw a beautifully calligraphed envelope sitting on the table at another friend's house. I asked if it was her work. She said no, but that it was a mundane calligrapher who had wanted $2,000 to do a set of wedding invitations. The bride had then gone to the SCA scribe and asked her for help. Perhaps it's us scribes that need to be taught how to value our work. The costumers and wood carvers can all go out into Mundania and compare their products to their modern counterparts, their patrons can also "comparison shop". It is a little more difficult, but not impossible for us. Cheers! ~Bess - --part1_37.2958394d.2a4757b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/23/2002 10:25:09 AM Central Daylight Time, wyverns@earthlink.net writes:


To give a hint of 'value', I recently went to the art shows at a couple of SF cons... numbered Laser prints and Lithographs of pictures that were simpler and plainer (and in my view no more and possibly less 'professional' than most SCA scrolls I've seen)



I would have to agree that most recipients really have no clue of the value of their scrolls.  But then, how many of us go out and purchase original art?  My husband and I have been hitting the local galleries, guilds and art leagues as well as some summer art faires in our area.  Though we've done this in the past, our goal this time was to compare my skill level and work to that of the artists that were on display.

We found nothing that even comes close to the medieval manuscript style that we as SCA scribes work in.  But when taking into consideration the difference in style and mediums, it is our opinion that quite a large number of SCA scribes surpass the level of skill then the majority of the displaying artists.   Though I often have a great lack of confidence when displaying my work next to other SCA scribes, I don't think that I'd mind at all displaying in the local galleries.  What is the relevance you ask?  *None* of the works displayed at these galleries was priced for less than $150, and that was on the low LOW end.   In comparison with these other pieces on display, I'd say that most of the work of Midrealm scribes would have to fit in the $300 - $500 category depending on the style and medium in use.  And I *know* that some of our Laurels' works do command much more than that.

Is it the SCA culture which states that if something does not perform a practical function it has less value?  Is it that the generosity of the scribes, who donate their time and efforts so that the crown may give away original pieces of art, have depreciated the value of their work by doing so?  Or are people just clueless in general?

A friend of mine recently showed me a picture of a beautiful mundane commission which she did.  She commented that she often has trouble knowing what her work should cost, and charged the patron of the piece $65.   My response was simply that she did not charge him enough. 

I saw a beautifully calligraphed envelope sitting on the table at another friend's house.  I asked if it was her work.  She said no, but that it was a mundane calligrapher who had wanted $2,000 to do a set of wedding invitations.  The bride had then gone to the SCA scribe and asked her for help.

Perhaps it's us scribes that need to be taught how to value our work.  The costumers and wood carvers can all go out into Mundania and compare their products to their modern counterparts, their patrons can also "comparison shop".  It is a little more difficult, but not impossible for us. 

Cheers!

~Bess - --part1_37.2958394d.2a4757b2_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #4 ***************************