From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V8 #1 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, June 20 2002 Volume 08 : Number 001 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You [scribes]: assistance requested [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Re: [scribes]: assistance requested [scribes]: Re: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? RE: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Re: [scribes]: Re: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? [scribes]: Re:Best books [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscript online Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? [scribes]: framing artwork Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks RE: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You Re: [scribes]: KWHS Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You Re: [scribes]: KWHS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:16:08 -0500 From: "Dawn" Subject: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You Greetings, all! We will be offering a class at the KWHSAS entitled "Titivillus and You - Mistakes are Period!" I would like to incorporate the suggestions that the list members have contributed regarding error prevention and correction. Does anyone have any objections to this? (And yes, I'll be happy to give credit where it is due ;-) Madeleine de Somerville =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:37:14 -0400 From: Susan Arthur Subject: [scribes]: assistance requested Greetings, all, I find myself in need of some information I have not been able to locate any other way. I am hoping that there are some scribes here from Lochac who can help me. I need to know the full name and arms for the incoming Queen Elspeth. With warm regards, Lucia =========================== Lucia Bellini Baroness, Windmasters' Hill Companion of the Pearl Guildmistress, Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Lucia/index.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:06:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Booth Subject: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Greetings! Does anyone out there have any good resources for illuminated music manuscripts? I'd like to find documentation on styles of illumination used and techniques for scribing the music notation. Any help would be greatly appreciated! - -- Suzanne HL Suzanne de la Ferté Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:33:44 +1000 From: thorfinn Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Suzanne Booth wrote: >Greetings! > >Does anyone out there have any good resources for illuminated music >manuscripts? I'd like to find documentation on styles of illumination used and >techniques for scribing the music notation. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated! > >-- Suzanne > >HL Suzanne de la Ferté >Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra >_________________________________________________ > hi a good summary of the subject is in "Music in Medieval Manuscripts, N.Bell, The British Library, London 2001, 0-7123-4706-2. It is a paperback and not that expensive. as ever Thorfinn Lochac Australia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:08:57 -0500 From: "Bridget the Stargazer" Subject: Re: [scribes]: assistance requested While not of Lochac, and still very new to this list, I did find the following info in the Ordinary/Armorial online: Elspeth Turberville This name was registered in May of 1992 (via the West). The following device associated with this name was registered in May of 1992 (via the West): Argent, on a fess between three lyres vert, a horse passant to sinister argent Hope this helps. This is the way the name is spelled on the Royals page for Lochac. Bridget (who spends entirely too much time online looking for stuff) ;) >From: Susan Arthur >To: scribes@castle.org >Subject: [scribes]: assistance requested >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:37:14 -0400 > >Greetings, all, > >I find myself in need of some information I have not been able to locate >any other way. I am hoping that there are some scribes here from Lochac who >can help me. I need to know the full name and arms for the incoming Queen >Elspeth. > >With warm regards, >Lucia > > >=========================== >Lucia Bellini >Baroness, Windmasters' Hill >Companion of the Pearl >Guildmistress, Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium >http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Lucia/index.html >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:36:56 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? - --part1_12e.131a42e2.2a434288_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although it's not specifically a book about music manuscripts, there are quite a few examples of early Italian ren music in _Painting and Illumination in Early Renaissance Florence 1300-1450_ published in 1994 by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. The Cleveland Museum of Art also has quite a few pieces of music in their medieval manuscript collection... but unfortunately none of them are available online right now. Yvianne - --part1_12e.131a42e2.2a434288_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although it's not specifically a book about music manuscripts, there are quite a few examples of early Italian ren music in _Painting and Illumination in Early Renaissance Florence 1300-1450_ published in 1994 by the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

The Cleveland Museum of Art also has quite a few pieces of music in their medieval manuscript collection... but unfortunately none of them are available online right now.

Yvianne - --part1_12e.131a42e2.2a434288_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Booth Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Thank you! I'll see if Amazon.com carries it. - -- Suzanne - --- thorfinn wrote: > Suzanne Booth wrote: > > >Greetings! > > > >Does anyone out there have any good resources for illuminated music > >manuscripts? I'd like to find documentation on styles of illumination used > and > >techniques for scribing the music notation. > > > >Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > >-- Suzanne > > > >HL Suzanne de la Ferté > >Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra > >_________________________________________________ > > > hi > a good summary of the subject is in "Music in Medieval Manuscripts, > N.Bell, The British Library, London 2001, 0-7123-4706-2. It is a > paperback and not that expensive. > > as ever > > Thorfinn > Lochac > Australia > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Booth Subject: RE: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Actually, I'm looking for all periods -- I want to compare the styles used for music manuscripts in early periods vs late periods. Also which countries/regions were most likely to produce music manuscripts. - -- Suzanne - --- "Peters, Rise J." wrote: > I have a calendar hanging on my wall at home that has pages of illuminated > music, that I got in Italy. Also, on display in Venice, at the Cathedral San > Marco, are illuminated choir books -- I was amazed at the size of them, but I > guess the whole choir had to be able to see the music! I've seen music pages > in some of the books I have at home, but I'd have to hunt around for the > names of the books. What period are you looking for? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Suzanne Booth [mailto:suzannebooth@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:06 AM > > To: scribes@castle.org > > Subject: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? > > > > > > Greetings! > > > > Does anyone out there have any good resources for illuminated music > > manuscripts? I'd like to find documentation on styles of > > illumination used and > > techniques for scribing the music notation. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > -- Suzanne > > > > HL Suzanne de la Ferté > > Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > > =================================================================== > > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > > with a blank Subject: line and > > unsubscribe scribes > > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > > the body. > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:00:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Booth Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Thank you, Yvianne! - -- Suzanne - --- RenScribe@aol.com wrote: > Although it's not specifically a book about music manuscripts, there are > quite a few examples of early Italian ren music in _Painting and Illumination > > in Early Renaissance Florence 1300-1450_ published in 1994 by the > Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. > > The Cleveland Museum of Art also has quite a few pieces of music in their > medieval manuscript collection... but unfortunately none of them are > available online right now. > > Yvianne > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:04:01 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Best books - --part1_7e.29482c41.2a4348e1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since we were discussing books... I went to my bookshelf to see what I had. Sometimes I forget exactly what is there. :-0 One book I highly recommend for the beginning scribe on a budget is _The British Library Companion to Calligraphy, Illumination and Heraldry_ by Patricia Lovett. I found it at Half Price Books for $20 and it is worth it's weight in gold. If SCA scribes sat down and developed a textbook about the scribal arts it would contain a lot of the same information. If I ever have the opportunity to get more of these I will buy several. There is a big difference between if you are buying a book for the pretty pictures, the text, or a little of both. Off the top of my head... some of my favorite books that contain both are: _Painted Prayers_ Roger S. Wieck _The Illuminated Page_ Janet Backhouse _Western European Illuminated Manuscripts_ Tamara Voronova _ A History of Illuminated Manuscripts_ Christopher de Hamel _Illuminated Manuscripts_ Giulia Bologna Italian Renaissance style only ... which is my favorite :-) _Bibliotheca Corviniana_ Irish University Press (excellent pictures and text for C&I) _The Painted Page_ Prestel Books I don't lend out my books, but I do travel with them. If someone wants to see anything I have, just ask me to bring some books with me to an event. In reverence of chivalry and honor, I remain ... Maitresse Yvianne AEthelmearc - --part1_7e.29482c41.2a4348e1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since we were discussing books...
I went to my bookshelf to see what I had.
Sometimes I forget exactly what is there. :-0

One book I highly recommend for the beginning scribe on a budget is _The British Library Companion to Calligraphy, Illumination and Heraldry_ by Patricia Lovett. I found it at Half Price Books for $20 and it is worth it's weight in gold. If SCA scribes sat down and developed a textbook about the scribal arts it would contain a lot of the same information. If I ever have the opportunity to get more of these I will buy several.

There is a big difference between if you are buying a book for the pretty pictures, the text, or a little of both. Off the top of my head... some of my favorite books that contain both are:

_Painted Prayers_  Roger S. Wieck
_The Illuminated Page_ Janet Backhouse
_Western European Illuminated Manuscripts_ Tamara Voronova
_ A History of Illuminated Manuscripts_ Christopher de Hamel
_Illuminated Manuscripts_ Giulia Bologna

Italian Renaissance style only ... which is my favorite :-)
_Bibliotheca Corviniana_ Irish University Press (excellent pictures and text for C&I)
_The Painted Page_  Prestel Books

I don't lend out my books, but I do travel with them. If someone wants to see anything I have, just ask me to bring some books with me to an event.

In reverence of chivalry and honor,
I remain ...

Maitresse Yvianne
AEthelmearc - --part1_7e.29482c41.2a4348e1_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:28:05 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscript online - --part1_14d.f9a221c.2a434e85_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was searching through my bookmarks to find something and tripped over the URL for the Syracuse Gradual/Weiss Antiphoner. A Dominican Gradual of Saints, probably originating in Castile, Spain, and can be dated to the period of 1484-ca.1524 http://libwww.syr.edu/digital/collections/m/MedievalManuscripts/ms11/ms11.htm Enjoy Yvianne - --part1_14d.f9a221c.2a434e85_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was searching through my bookmarks to find something and tripped over the URL for the Syracuse Gradual/Weiss Antiphoner. A Dominican Gradual of Saints, probably originating in Castile, Spain, and can be dated to the period of 1484-ca.1524

http://libwww.syr.edu/digital/collections/m/MedievalManuscripts/ms11/ms11.htm

Enjoy
Yvianne - --part1_14d.f9a221c.2a434e85_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:05:40 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? I don't have any additional ideas on books to look for (I was going to sugges the book on early Renaissance Florentine stuff that someone already suggested). But I think if I were going to try and find information on the differences in notations and such through the period, I'd talk with one of my local music Laurels to see if they could give me ideas on where to look and maybe help out on the research. I'm just about the most unmusical person on the planet, and trying to figure out music is like trying to understand interstellar physics or string theory to me. I'm not tone deaf, but I might as well be. Tetchubah Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:01:26 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: [scribes]: framing artwork I know we've all run into the high cost of framing our artwork. I know a lot of us think that the frame shops must mark up their products enormously. Well, I've got news for you - the price of mats, glass and moldings has gone up enormously lately. On Monday I decided that I was finally going to mat and frame some stuff that I'd like to hang in my living room (not my stuff - these are a set of old ship menus from the 50s). There are six of them, all to be framed identically. Mind you, I have a resale license so I can get mats and frame molding at wholesale. I called my favorite mat supplier, a large wholesaler in Sante Fe Springs here in L.A., and placed my order for 3 mat boards, 3 backer boards, 1 extra mat for another project, and a box of conservation glass. The total order was over $200. Admittedly, the mats I picked out for this project are probably one of the most expensive mats Crescent makes (the intaglio imprinted mat with a leaf pattern) but the wholesale cost on these was nearly $30 *each*. Fortunately I can get 2 mats out of each board. I also realized I had goofed on the backer board - I got the Pefect Mount board (about $10/each), which has a self adhesive background on it so you don't have to hinge the artwork, it sticks to the backer board (it's acid free, btw). But since these are menus I don't want to mount them that way, so I had to buy 3 boards of AFX mount board (acid free,but cheap - only $3/sheet) instead when I went back Tuesday to pick up a couple of the mat boards that they didn't have in stock. You'd think the conservation glass would be one of the more expensive items but a box of it with 6 32x40 sheets is under $50. The rest of the money went to buying a set of mat corners so I know what colors are current - my set was nearly 8 years old and a lot of the colors have been replaced. I plan to get the frame molding from this same supplier since they've started carrying some moldings in the last 6 months and had something perfect for this project. But the cost per foot on the molding I want, in chop, is about $10/foot. Buying molding in chop ups the cost over buying it in length by about $1/foot, sometimes less depending on the molding, but I'm lousy at cutting length. I haven't figured out how many feet I need yet - I can't actually do the matting for a couple of weeks yet, and won't determine the frame size until then. Admittedly these are expensive options I'm going with but the next time it costs you $180 to frame a $5 poster, you'll know why. Tetchubah Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:59:52 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Music Manuscripts? Good Lady, I think you would enjoy La Trobe University's "Medieval Music Database"! This site is the most valuable Period music resource I've ever found: http://www.lib.latrobe.edu.au/Audio-Visual/Stinson/medmusic.htm Enjoy! Peter Suzanne Booth wrote: > > Greetings! > > Does anyone out there have any good resources for illuminated music > manuscripts? I'd like to find documentation on styles of illumination used and > techniques for scribing the music notation. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > -- Suzanne > > HL Suzanne de la Ferté > Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:35:04 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... - --part1_b9.224aa16e.2a43b298_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got one better... This afternoon I was slinging my art bag over my shoulder (vinyl carrying bag has trays and bottles in it), and I heard something slide around. Got into the car, opened the bag when it was on the passenger side, and noticed a gaping hole in the bottom of a newly bought glass bottle that I had poured 2 bottles of Higgins Black Magic Ink into. Needless to say, what I did next really takes the cake. As I am hurrying to put the flooded bag into a plastic bag in the back seat, not only does it drip onto the front passenger seat, but spatters onto the back seat too. The upholstery is light grey. The car is a 2000 model, not a Jaguar or anything, but still my first new new car. I managed to soak most of it up with water and seltzer so far, but there's still dark grey blotches on the seats. I'm heading out to get True Green and a new, more sturdy, carrying bag. No more fragile tall glass jars for my ink, either. (Just wanted something that didn't have such a narrow opening that requires finagling when you get to the bottom of it...). - --Kayleigh - --part1_b9.224aa16e.2a43b298_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got one better...

This afternoon I was slinging my art bag over my shoulder (vinyl carrying bag has trays and bottles in it), and I heard something slide around. Got into the car, opened the bag when it was on the passenger side, and noticed a gaping hole in the bottom of a newly bought glass bottle that I had poured 2 bottles of Higgins Black Magic Ink into.

Needless to say, what I did next really takes the cake. As I am hurrying to put the flooded bag into a plastic bag in the back seat, not only does it drip onto the front passenger seat, but spatters onto the back seat too. The upholstery is light grey. The car is a 2000 model, not a Jaguar or anything, but still my first new new car. I managed to soak most of it up with water and seltzer so far, but there's still dark grey blotches on the seats.

I'm heading out to get True Green and a new, more sturdy, carrying bag.
No more fragile tall glass jars for my ink, either. (Just wanted something that didn't have such a narrow opening that requires finagling when you get to the bottom of it...).

--Kayleigh - --part1_b9.224aa16e.2a43b298_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:53:07 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... Kayleigh, if the ink was permanent ink, you'll probably never get the stains out. I spilled some Speedball permanent ink on a pair of jeans once - - despite repeated washings over the next 4 or 5 years I owned them, there were still grey spots on those jeans when I finally threw them out. Tetchubah Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:20:36 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Oops - Bad idea.... ACK!!! Kayleigh, your best chance of getting the ink stain out is with a solvent. Go buy a can of the cheapest hair spray you can find. "AquaNet" is the one that comes to mind. (Don't laugh!) Try this first on an inconspicuous part of the upholstery - just to be sure that it doesn't remove the normal color of the seat... Saturate a small area, and immediately blot it away with an absorbent cotton rag. Repeat. (Use a lot of clean rags, so that you don't simply spread the diluted pigment.) After the final application, blot the "wet" areas as firmly as you can, so that none (or nearly none) of the hairspray is left to dry in the fibers of the seat cover. Good Luck! Peter KMcWhyte@aol.com wrote: > > I've got one better... > > This afternoon I was slinging my art bag over my shoulder (vinyl carrying bag has trays > and bottles in it), and I heard something slide around. Got into the car, opened the bag > when it was on the passenger side, and noticed a gaping hole in the bottom of a newly > bought glass bottle that I had poured 2 bottles of Higgins Black Magic Ink into. > > Needless to say, what I did next really takes the cake. As I am hurrying to put the > flooded bag into a plastic bag in the back seat, not only does it drip onto the front > passenger seat, but spatters onto the back seat too. The upholstery is light grey. The > car is a 2000 model, not a Jaguar or anything, but still my first new new car. I managed > to soak most of it up with water and seltzer so far, but there's still dark grey > blotches on the seats. > > I'm heading out to get True Green and a new, more sturdy, carrying bag. > No more fragile tall glass jars for my ink, either. (Just wanted something that didn't > have such a narrow opening that requires finagling when you get to the bottom of it...). > > --Kayleigh =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:22:51 +1000 From: R & M Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You Would it be at all possible to get acopy of the class notes of this and for that matter any other of the class notes. Being on the other side of the planet I'm afraid I can't get there. Thanking you in advance Marit the Wanderer Dawn wrote: >Greetings, all! > >We will be offering a class at the KWHSAS entitled "Titivillus and You - >Mistakes are Period!" >I would like to incorporate the suggestions that the list members have >contributed regarding error prevention and correction. Does anyone have any >objections to this? > >(And yes, I'll be happy to give credit where it is due ;-) > >Madeleine de Somerville >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. > > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:52:24 +0800 From: Jean-Paul Blaquiere Subject: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks I have seen a few scrolls which say that they have been inked with Chinese ink. i am wondering what this is? I presume it is similar to japanese stick ink but would like to know for sure. Also, are there any good techniques for using stick ink with dip pens? I have tried and I can get a good consistency to the ink so it flows properly but it goes translucent very quickly, 3-5 letters after a refill. I know this is normal (and wanted) behaviour for japanese calligraphy but not what i want for European! All hints accepted. ./jp - -- Jean-Paul Blaquiere || Avatar of Computational japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au || Thaumaturgy http://japester.ucc.asn.au || verum ipsum factum Questions are dangerous, for they have answers =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:23:07 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks Jean-Paul: I don't think there is much difference except by name of Chinese vs Japanese stick inks. The instructor I had who taught me how to use them, told us that there wasn't any difference, anyway. Both are made much the same way. This same instructor's grinding technique was this... start with about 10 drops of distilled water and grind, grind, grind... after a while, drag the stick across the ground puddle and if it parts like the "Red Sea," and you don't need more ink than that amount, work from there with a brush... if you need more ink, add another 5-10 drops and continue grinding until it once again parts. By parting, I mean it leaves a somewhat dry looking stripe through the puddle. Are you working on a slant when you callig with this ink?? Are you using nibs with reservoirs?? I use Mitchell's without a reservoir and rarely get more than a few letters (unless I am using a really small nib) with each "fill" of the nib. This is the nature of the technique. Mitchell's without reservoirs act quite similarly to feather quills... very flexible and you get only a few letters per fill. The steeper the slope on your writing board, though, will allow one or two more letters. My nib will completely run out before it gets translucent on me, usually... I just know how far I can go and am prepared to do the refill thing as needed. I hope this helps a bit. Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schönborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://ww1.comteck.com/~meisterin - ----- Original Message ----- > I have seen a few scrolls which say that they have been inked with Chinese > ink. i am wondering what this is? I presume it is similar to japanese > stick ink but would like to know for sure. > > Also, are there any good techniques for using stick ink with dip pens? I > have tried and I can get a good consistency to the ink so it flows properly > but it goes translucent very quickly, 3-5 letters after a refill. I know > this is normal (and wanted) behaviour for japanese calligraphy but not what > i want for European! > All hints accepted. > > ./jp > -- > Jean-Paul Blaquiere || Avatar of Computational > japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au || Thaumaturgy > http://japester.ucc.asn.au || verum ipsum factum > Questions are dangerous, for they have answers =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:52:05 +0800 From: Jean-Paul Blaquiere Subject: Re: [scribes]: chinese inks vs other inks > On Jun 20, Helen Schultz illuminated : > This same instructor's grinding technique was this... start with about 10 drops > of distilled water and grind, grind, grind... after a while, drag the stick > across the ground puddle and if it parts like the "Red Sea," and you don't need > ahhhh more grinding I see. :( patience and sore fingers here I come. > you working on a slant when you callig with this ink?? Are you using nibs with > reservoirs?? I use Mitchell's without a reservoir and rarely get more than a > few letters (unless I am using a really small nib) with each "fill" of the nib. > No slant and I'm using Mitchells with no resevoir too :) It is good to see that you are getting the same sort of results as I am. Thank you. :) ./jp - -- Jean-Paul Blaquiere || Avatar of Computational japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au || Thaumaturgy http://japester.ucc.asn.au || verum ipsum factum Questions are dangerous, for they have answers =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:54:54 -0400 From: "Holly" Subject: RE: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You The Proceedings volume should have them, yes/no? :-)---Holly---<--<-@ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On > Behalf Of R & M > > > Would it be at all possible to get acopy of the class notes of this and > for that matter any other of the class notes. > Being on the other side of the planet I'm afraid I can't get there. > Thanking you in advance > Marit the Wanderer > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:57:59 EDT From: PDRUSS@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHS - --part1_cf.18cd78cf.2a43f037_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never been to a KWHS before. Are we suppose to brings paints and papers? Tamara - --part1_cf.18cd78cf.2a43f037_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never been to a KWHS before. Are we suppose to brings paints and papers?


Tamara - --part1_cf.18cd78cf.2a43f037_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:10:36 -0800 From: Heather Dorsett Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSAS - Titivillus and You Please post replies to the list, not just the sender...while not *quite* as far away, I can't exactly drive down for the weekend either....

Helena Ochastka
Barony of Winter's Gate, West
(Fairbanks, Alaska)

R & M wrote:

Would it be at all possible to get acopy of the class notes of this and
for that matter any other of the class notes.
Being on the other side of the planet I'm afraid I can't get there.
Thanking you in advance
Marit the Wanderer

Dawn wrote:

>Greetings, all!
>
>We will be offering a class at the KWHSAS entitled "Titivillus and You -
>Mistakes are Period!"

=================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:05:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "jystock@excite.com" Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHS - --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__95008d81783831f6ad2911f6c7135a00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No.  You don't need to.  I did last year and never used them.  It's not a bad idea though.  FOr any hands on classes, it'll be good use your own stuff.  WHen I wen tthey handed out paper rulers and such, but they were shor ton rulers and one insturctor said we were welcome to use are own paper, but he  had plenty to pass out.--- On Thu 06/20, < PDRUSS@aol.com > wrote: From: [mailto: PDRUSS@aol.com]To: scribes@castle.orgDate: Thu 06/20Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHSI've never been to a KWHS before. Are we suppose to brings paints and papers?Tamara - ------------------------------------------------ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! - --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__95008d81783831f6ad2911f6c7135a00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
No.  You don't need to.  I did last year and never used them.  It's not a bad idea though.  FOr any hands on classes, it'll be good use your own stuff.  WHen I wen tthey handed out paper rulers and such, but they were shor ton rulers and one insturctor said we were welcome to use are own paper, but he  had plenty to pass out.





--- On Thu 06/20, < PDRUSS@aol.com > wrote:

From: [mailto: PDRUSS@aol.com]
To: scribes@castle.org
Date: Thu 06/20
Subject: Re: [scribes]: KWHS

I've never been to a KWHS before. Are we suppose to brings paints and papers?


Tamara

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web! - --EXCITEBOUNDARY_000__95008d81783831f6ad2911f6c7135a00-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V8 #1 ***************************