From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #93 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, March 22 2002 Volume 07 : Number 093 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Over binding, was Pigment stability question Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) [scribes]: Scribes Point at Pennsic (was Gulf Wars) [scribes]: Windsor Newton Gouache/Poster Paint? RE: [scribes]: Windsor Newton Gouache/Poster Paint? Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) [scribes]: The saga of the scroll [scribes]: favourite textura precissa examples? Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: saying no (was Scribes Point) [scribes]: Scribes Point & saying no Re: [scribes]: saying no (was Scribes Point) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point at Pennsic (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) [scribes]: Re:Scribes Point & saying no ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:58:22 -0600 (CST) From: sburnell@raex.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Over binding, was Pigment stability question > Ack! No! Not pigment-water! The important ratio is pigment-BINDER! Oh, OK, thanks for the clarification. DUH, I shoulda known that...... This scroll has been a real bear. I'd hoped to have it mostly done by now, but it sure doesn't look that way. Too many things to fix. As it stands, it's about half done. I've wrestled with varying emotions while working on it, from adulation that the design turned out so well to sheer disappointment in the whole project, forcing me to, at times, wonder if I should just go ahead and try to finish it or abandon the entire thing as a whopping failure. At the very least, it sure has proved to be an interesting project filled with numerous experimentations. Those have proved to be somewhat frustrating when typically scrolls are so easy for me to produce and are usually totally free of any troubles. I suppose I was due for one that just made me greyer haired than I already am..........sheesh...... Well, I am still in the stage of debating what to do. I suppose I will just buck up and finish it and hope for the best. And learn what NOT to do next time. ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:56:57 +0000 From: "I.C. Kessler" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars)

>>I was wondering if anyone knew what the logistics would be with doing something similar at Pennsic. That is, having a scribes point (tent with tables and chairs) that would be open during daylight hours every day where scribes could come and hang out, work on scrolls, pick eachother's brains, etc. (This would not be used for classes, just for working on stuff) Does anyone like that idea? Does anyone know if we could do that at Pennsic? I suspect it would come down to space and the rental of the tent. What do you all think? <<

There's a few luxuries that we have that would be difficult to work around at Pennsic, like a permanent structure for the whole week, which is nice because it can be left set up from day to day. Also people can leave their paint/scribe boxes and come back at their leisure to get it. We also have power, heat/air and a restroom in the building. This mostly eliminates humidity, dew, rain, and wind as problems. If I remember correctly Pennsic is very dusty, and the well water has enough iron in it to discolor solar shower bags and water coolers.

A scribe's point needs plenty of tables & chairs - approximately 3 people can work comfortably at a standard banquet table. I used white posterboards to sort of signify each work space, because they're cleaner than the table surface and you can use them to blot pens or wipe excess paint off brushes. This year we had two desk lamps/table, with 100watt bulbs. I tried switching some of the lamps over to those 'reveal' bulbs that are supposed to show colors better - they are very pleasant to work under.

We also had two large light tables which took up a whole banquet table, and an extra banquet table that held all the blank scrolls available to be painted. Next year I'm goign to ask for 5 more tables.

A CD player would have been nice but I didn't remember to bring one.

- Isabel

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand things with alloys and compositions and things with ... molecular structures."

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=================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:20:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Pennsic usually has an artist's tent at Herald's Point. It is private, (as in not out in public), and usually has scribes working on stuff as well as heraldic artists working on submissions. I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). I also remember some extremely enjoyable late night sessions painting war point banners to be awarded in final court at some early Pennsics (that would be XII, XIII, XIV). Lots of fun, companionship, and great-idea-sharing. Graidhne On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, I.C. Kessler wrote: > > >>I was wondering if anyone knew what the logistics would be with doing > something similar at Pennsic. That is, having a scribes point (tent with > tables and chairs) that would be open during daylight hours every day > where scribes could come and hang out, work on scrolls, pick eachother's > brains, etc. (This would not be used for classes, just for working on > stuff) Does anyone like that idea? Does anyone know if we could do that > at Pennsic? I suspect it would come down to space and the rental of the > tent. What do you all think? << > > There's a few luxuries that we have that would be difficult to work > around at Pennsic, like a permanent structure for the whole week, which > is nice because it can be left set up from day to day. Also people can > leave their paint/scribe boxes and come back at their leisure to get it. > We also have power, heat/air and a restroom in the building. This mostly > eliminates humidity, dew, rain, and wind as problems. If I remember > correctly Pennsic is very dusty, and the well water has enough iron in it > to discolor solar shower bags and water coolers. > > A scribe's point needs plenty of tables & chairs - approximately 3 people > can work comfortably at a standard banquet table. I used white > posterboards to sort of signify each work space, because they're cleaner > than the table surface and you can use them to blot pens or wipe excess > paint off brushes. This year we had two desk lamps/table, with 100watt > bulbs. I tried switching some of the lamps over to those '! reveal' bulbs > that are supposed to show colors better - they are very pleasant to work > under. > > We also had two large light tables which took up a whole banquet table, > and an extra banquet table that held all the blank scrolls available to > be painted. Next year I'm goign to ask for 5 more tables. > > A CD player would have been nice but I didn't remember to bring one. > > - Isabel > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > things with alloys and compositions and things with ... molecular > structures." > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here > =================================================================== To > unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any > additional text in the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:09:57 -0800 (PST) From: Hrefna in heppna Subject: [scribes]: Scribes Point at Pennsic (was Gulf Wars) There is a scribes point at Pennsic. It is a small tent behind Herald's Point. (Walk into Herald's Point. The scribes' tent is usually in the far back right corner.) The tent can fit up to 10 people if they only have a piece of paper and a pencil. Four scribes can work in there comfortably. Last year only a few scribes knew about it at all. It was used mostly by heralds drawing submissions. This year there is some discussion about holding scribal classes in this tent. Hrefna in heppna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:25:15 -0700 From: "Valerie Scarbrough" Subject: [scribes]: Windsor Newton Gouache/Poster Paint? Greetings to the list! I am currently thinking about bidding for an item in an online auction. It is for a set of Windsor Newton paints. The person listing the item explains that since these were made for the Japanese market they ARE gouache, but are just called Poster Paints in Japan. Has anyone ever heard of this before? Also, what is a good price for a set of Windsor Newton gouache. Not the primary 6 color set, but at least a 12 color set. I am having trouble finding them at art stores here in Utah and want to order some online. Thank you for any advice that will be forthcoming, Bethany of Windermere Valerie H. Scarbrough Fairbanks Capital Corp (SLC) #801-313-2224 email: ValerieS@fairbankscapital.com The information contained in this email transmission is being transmitted to and is intended only for the use of the individual(s) named above. If the reader of this is not the intended recipient, you are hereby advised that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and destroy this transmission. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:47:13 -0500 From: ESTAVASH@cs.com Subject: RE: [scribes]: Windsor Newton Gouache/Poster Paint? Hello, I can't help with the poster paint issue, but as far as local (Utah) suppliers go, you might want to check out Utrecht art supplies in Sugarhouse-- when I was there last week, they had loose tubes of gouache on sale for 40% off, and their signs seemed to indicate that their regular prices are 30% off suggested retail. Maybe we could make a field trip of it on Saturday... Good luck, Ellen "Valerie Scarbrough" wrote: >Greetings to the list! >I am currently thinking about bidding for an item in an online auction. It is for a set of Windsor Newton paints. The person listing the item explains that since these were made for the Japanese market they ARE gouache, but are just called Poster Paints in Japan. Has anyone ever heard of this before? >Also, what is a good price for a set of Windsor Newton gouache. Not the primary 6 color set, but at least a 12 color set. I am having trouble finding them at art stores here in Utah and want to order some online. >Thank you for any advice that will be forthcoming, >Bethany of Windermere =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:26:17 -0800 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time to time. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:59 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: [scribes]: The saga of the scroll Well, it's done. Finished it late last night. Went to bed aching tired, eyes strained and exhausted, back and neck feeling positively awful. But by golly, it's done. To all who offered your sage advise as I wrestled with the pigments, my sincerest thanks to you all. You're life savers, period. And this list is a godsend! I've certainly learned a lot doing this scroll. It's a never ending learning process, and working with the powdered pigments, binding agents and whatnot is still something in which I am on a steep learning curve. This isn't my first scroll doing this (it's about my 3rd one now) and with each one, I grow and learn a little more. Still got lots to learn. But I'm getting there. Thanks, all! :-) ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:38:01 -0500 From: "E. Brown" Subject: [scribes]: favourite textura precissa examples? Greetings, I'm busy learning the textura precissa bookhand (aka textura precissa sine pedibus), and I'm looking for online exemplars. I know that the Lutrell Psalter is one of the canonical examples. Can anyone point me to good samples online? or other favourite online sources of this hand? I'm particularly interested in getting the letter spacing, word spacing, line spacing correct. Regards, Genevieve la flechiere Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere - -- IMPIETY, n. Your irreverence toward my deity. -- Ambrose Bierce, US writer (1842-1914) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:15:10 +0000 From: "Russell Husted" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). I was recently told that we try and get every Prince and Princess in Ansteorra to do atleast one scroll. It helps them understand what they are asking for. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:40:03 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) Dear folks, Graidhne and Branwen had this conversation: > "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > > > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > to time. Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", on our own behalf or on behalf of others? - -- johannes "Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't" -- Mark Twain =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:17:09 -0600 From: Barbara Oelke Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) I'm probably dating myself, but Pennsic used to have a scribal tent regularly, sometimes near the Heraldry tent, which was very convenient. They used one of those rental pavillions which makes for a reasonably permanent structure, although people generally took their scrolls and supplies away with them. There was a supply of very large-bottled water, tables, chairs, and sometimes classes were taught there, although having classes tended to disrupt the work on scrolls so they later moved most of the classes to the 'Pennsic University area'. I'm not sure, but I believe that mostly stopped when the good lady who had been organizing it withdrew. My understanding was that she had been paying for the rental of the tent herself rather than coming from the event funds, (though I didn't hear anything to that effect until afterwards so it may have been a rumor) and that the cost may have become prohibiitive, or perhaps organizing it all every year became too much of a hastle. The autocrats weren't always as understanding about scribal needs as we could hope... Later I heard that there was a scribal tent in the university area, but when I tried to find it all I found were tents full of chairs. I don't know if I heard wrong, didn't find the right tent, or whether there were just a lot of classes usurping the table space we needed. Enid Calontir =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:24:35 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 8:41:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, john j cash writes: > Dear folks, > > Graidhne and Branwen had this conversation: > > > "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > > > > > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > > > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > > > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > > > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). > > > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > > to time. > > Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", on our own > behalf or on behalf of others? > > -- johannes > > "Those who don't read ... have no advantage over those who can't" > -- Mark Twain > > 2x, in the nearly 3 years as a scribe, though it should have been more on my own behalf. I've already had one panic attack from being faced with almost 5 scrolls, at which point a good beer, some rethinking, counsel from the Signet, and discussion with others helped to ease the situation. I've never said no on behalf of others, but have reminded the students at our scribal workshop that they should know their limits, and try not to rush things / take too much on. I can honestly say from personal experience that sometimes the word "no" can be a good thing. - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (An Dubh, East) E.Frank, Long Island, NY =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:39:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) > > > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > > > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > > > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > > > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). > > > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > > to time. > > Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", > on our own behalf or on behalf of others? I have, and it wasn't easy, considering there was a past and present Clerk of the Signet sitting in front of me when I was asked. ;-) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:34 -0600 From: Barbara Oelke Subject: Re: [scribes]: saying no (was Scribes Point) I've said no to individuals but not to the royals only because the hard part was getting them to ask for scrolls to be given in court at all. I have, however, warned them that it would be very simple and/or that some of several requested might not be ready in time due to the short notice. Usually they have started to plan ahead or at least show appreciation for achieving anything in less than a week. Enid formerly of Atlantia now of Calontir =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:04:52 -0600 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: Scribes Point & saying no Greetings from Ellen of the Scholars (Middle Kingdom) I have had to say no on several occasions. I even had to directly refuse a Prince & Princess when they specially requested a portrait of themselves for a Pale cover. (I felt REALLY bad about that one, but I had already promised 2 peerage scroll commissions and had several scrolls due for the next court. There was just no way I could make the deadline and they were very understanding as I gave them my explanation.) I have also been one of those scribes frantically working at the last moment. Working under that kind of pressure can be fun - once in a while. I don't recommend it as a regular habit. I recall one event where the Princess was the only royalty attending. She came to the scribes room & spoke to the scribes about her desire to encourage the youth of the Kingdom. Seems she had made it her special 'cause.' She asked the scribes present if it would be possible to add some of the young people present at the event to the court list that night. She also expressed her appreciation for all our work & her understanding that she was asking a lot. She said that if we were able, even the simplest scrolls would be awarded & appreciated. I think we turned out about 25 that day in an assembly-line set up. We were all pretty proud of ourselves and had a lot of fun working together. Ellen At 09:39 AM 3/22/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > I seem to recall at least one Pennsic when it was > > > > filled with frantic MidRealm scribes trying desparately to fulfill the > > > > royalty's casual last minute request for some 40 scrolls for Middle > > > > Kingdom War Court (but that's a rant for another day, isn't it...). > > > > > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > > > to time. > > > > Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", > > on our own behalf or on behalf of others? =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:32:10 -0500 From: "E. Brown" Subject: Re: [scribes]: saying no (was Scribes Point) Barbara Oelke wrote: > > I've said no to individuals but not to the royals only because the hard > part was getting them to ask for scrolls to be given in court at all. I > have, however, warned them that it would be very simple and/or that some > of several requested might not be ready in time due to the short notice. > Usually they have started to plan ahead or at least show appreciation > for achieving anything in less than a week. > > Enid > formerly of Atlantia > now of Calontir Greetings, I'm very new at this scribal thing, but have been around the Society awhile. There's no generality that covers all royals; they're regular folks too. Some have done their share of work at events, run tournaments, been scribes, so their expectations are very realistic. Our current royals in Ealdormere had their reign planned on a spreadsheet from the outset, and their heirs seem to be doing something similar. Others, that-shall-remain-nameless, commission scrolls for Peerages that have not yet been discussed with the Peers in question. One set of royals handed out 117 scrolls in Ealdormere in one reign - this is remarkable for a small kingdom that has a paid membership of around 500 or less (estimating a 1:2 paid:unpaid ratio here). All original scrolls, no promissories or copies. So...I'd guess that the 40-scrolls-at-Pennsic royals didn't know what they were asking, and maybe should have been taken aside. IMO, it's not just up to the scribes or signet to say no - where are the kingdom officers, to offer good counsel? Respectfully, Genevieve la flechiere Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere - -- IMPIETY, n. Your irreverence toward my deity. -- Ambrose Bierce, US writer (1842-1914) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:43:47 EST From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point at Pennsic (was Gulf Wars) - --part1_4e.88d11be.29ccb943_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/2002 11:11:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_jaded_raven@yahoo.com writes: > There is a scribes point at Pennsic. It is a small > tent behind Herald's Point. (Walk into Herald's > Point. The scribes' tent is usually in the far back > right corner.) The tent can fit up to 10 people if > they only have a piece of paper and a pencil. Four > scribes can work in there comfortably. > > Last year only a few scribes knew about it at all. It > was used mostly by heralds drawing submissions. This > year there is some discussion about holding scribal > classes in this tent. > > Hrefna in heppna > That sounds pretty crowded and more beneficial to heralds, instead of scribes. My husband is the Kingdom Herald for Atlantia, and I know how loud and er- boistrius - yeah, that's a good word - they can get. That is not really the atmosphere I would want to relax in. (Besides, I almost always end up at the heralds table/area at Kingdom events and am always getting bumped and having writing instruments borrowed, etc....) I had no idea there was any such animal and I was at Herald's point three times last year. My thoughts were along the line of a well-defined, seperate tent for the scribes to work on scrolls and not have to stop due to a class being held. I may contact the A&S coordinator at Pennsic this year and see if something could be worked out. It sounds like there are some interested people, and if it was advertised and in the book, then I think it would get utilized more. Brandy (Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia) (Who still does not know if she will be attending Pennsic one week,or not at all this year...) - --part1_4e.88d11be.29ccb943_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/2002 11:11:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_jaded_raven@yahoo.com writes:

There is a scribes point at Pennsic. It is a small
tent behind Herald's Point. (Walk into Herald's
Point. The scribes' tent is usually in the far back
right corner.) The tent can fit up to 10 people if
they only have a piece of paper and a pencil. Four
scribes can work in there comfortably.

Last year only a few scribes knew about it at all. It
was used mostly by heralds drawing submissions. This
year there is some discussion about holding scribal
classes in this tent.

Hrefna in heppna

That sounds pretty crowded and more beneficial to heralds, instead of scribes. My husband is the Kingdom Herald for Atlantia, and I know how loud and er- boistrius - yeah, that's a good word - they can get. That is not really the atmosphere I would want to relax in. (Besides, I almost always end up at the heralds table/area at Kingdom events and am always getting bumped and having writing instruments borrowed, etc....)

I had no idea there was any such animal and I was at Herald's point three times last year. My thoughts were along the line of a well-defined, seperate tent for the scribes to work on scrolls and not have to stop due to a class being held.

I may contact the A&S coordinator at Pennsic this year and see if something could be worked out. It sounds like there are some interested people, and if it was advertised and in the book, then I think it would get utilized more.

Brandy
(Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia)
(Who still does not know if she will be attending Pennsic one week,or not at all this year...)
- --part1_4e.88d11be.29ccb943_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:18:59 -0800 (PST) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) - --- john j cash wrote: > Graidhne and Branwen had this conversation: > > "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > > to time. > > Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", on our own > behalf or on behalf of others? > > -- johannes Actually, I did say no to the Crown of Ansteorra over this last Gulf Wars. They requested a largish Treaty scroll to be presented to another kingdom, but didn't have all the details and wording worked out till the day of the presentation. What they were seeking was something along the lines of the Treaty scroll that had been done between Ansteorra and Calontir, loaded with illumination and gold leaf. The lady who did that scroll did it over a weekend and a week, and that was even pushing it, and did so at her home, a bit more pristine conditions than at the War (though Isabel had a rather ideal setting arranged at Gulf Wars, and I look forward to being there again next year.) As there was no way to provide a similar scroll to that they were expecting, and I told them so, our Southern Regional Scribe, Emma Dandilion, did a 'reading' scroll, of just calligraphy, on an 14 x 17 sheet of good paper. So, it looked more along the lines of a simple document. So, while we said no!, we did have a compromise that worked for all. Even so, after they had the reading scroll, they asked for some small changes, which would have required a complete recreation... at that point, with only 2 hrs till court, I did say no, not possible. As for the formal treaty (ie..fancy scroll), it has been commissioned. Personally, I find it hard to say no to the Crown, when in truth it is the recipient of the scroll that will suffer by not receiving their document when the award is read...but it has been done before. The herald will read the award into law, and the scroll comes later. Cheers, Hillary Stargate/Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:18:59 -0800 (PST) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribes Point (was Gulf Wars) - --- john j cash wrote: > Graidhne and Branwen had this conversation: > > "Cecelia M. Hughes" wrote: > > I bet they wouldn't try this so often if they got told "no" from time > > to time. > > Out of curiosity, how many on the list have ever said "no", on our own > behalf or on behalf of others? > > -- johannes Actually, I did say no to the Crown of Ansteorra over this last Gulf Wars. They requested a largish Treaty scroll to be presented to another kingdom, but didn't have all the details and wording worked out till the day of the presentation. What they were seeking was something along the lines of the Treaty scroll that had been done between Ansteorra and Calontir, loaded with illumination and gold leaf. The lady who did that scroll did it over a weekend and a week, and that was even pushing it, and did so at her home, a bit more pristine conditions than at the War (though Isabel had a rather ideal setting arranged at Gulf Wars, and I look forward to being there again next year.) As there was no way to provide a similar scroll to that they were expecting, and I told them so, our Southern Regional Scribe, Emma Dandilion, did a 'reading' scroll, of just calligraphy, on an 14 x 17 sheet of good paper. So, it looked more along the lines of a simple document. So, while we said no!, we did have a compromise that worked for all. Even so, after they had the reading scroll, they asked for some small changes, which would have required a complete recreation... at that point, with only 2 hrs till court, I did say no, not possible. As for the formal treaty (ie..fancy scroll), it has been commissioned. Personally, I find it hard to say no to the Crown, when in truth it is the recipient of the scroll that will suffer by not receiving their document when the award is read...but it has been done before. The herald will read the award into law, and the scroll comes later. Cheers, Hillary Stargate/Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:24:03 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Scribes Point & saying no - --part1_18c.53d71d1.29ccd0c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, I'll weigh in on this as AEthelmearc's current Sylvan Signet. No is always an acceptable response to being asked to do a favor ... which is what you are doing when you accept an assignment to make a scroll for the royalty to present. It is far more honorable to say "No" up front than say "Yes", struggle to do the scroll and then either make a mistake while trying to rush or are upset because it isn't your best work. In the end there still may not be a scroll, despite all of your efforts... not to mention that you are by this time miserable. This is supposed to be fun :-) By AE Signet office policy, any scroll requested with less than 2 weeks notice is not to be expected by the royalty. Six to eight weeks is recommended for high level awards. I will try to find a home for an assignment if possible ... it's part of the job ... but I don't like being put on the spot and I won't put scribes in a position where they feel they have to take an assignment. I remind the scribes that they are not obligated to take any assignment and especially not one with short notice. It's rare that I have to tell the royalty "No", but I have and will continue to do so when necessary. It's by testing the boundaries that the royalty know where they exist. If I don't say *NO* now and again they will soon expect no other answer than "Yes, Your Majesty, as you wish."... even when they ask for something unreasonable. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh - --part1_18c.53d71d1.29ccd0c3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, I'll weigh in on this as AEthelmearc's current Sylvan Signet.

No is always an acceptable response to being asked to do a favor ... which is what you are doing when you accept an assignment to make a scroll for the royalty to present. It is far more honorable to say "No" up front than say "Yes", struggle to do the scroll and then either make a mistake while trying to rush or are upset because it isn't your best work. In the end there still may not be a scroll, despite all of your efforts... not to mention that you are by this time miserable. This is supposed to be fun :-)

By AE Signet office policy, any scroll requested with less than 2 weeks notice is not to be expected by the royalty. Six to eight weeks is recommended for high level awards. I will try to find a home for an assignment if possible ... it's part of the job ... but I don't like being put on the spot and I won't put scribes in a position where they feel they have to take an assignment. I remind the scribes that they are not obligated to take any assignment and especially not one with short notice.

It's rare that I have to tell the royalty "No", but I have and will continue to do so when necessary. It's by testing the boundaries that the royalty know where they exist. If I don't say *NO* now and again they will soon expect no other answer than "Yes, Your Majesty, as you wish."... even when they ask for something unreasonable.

Eibhlin ni Chaoimh
- --part1_18c.53d71d1.29ccd0c3_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #93 ****************************