From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #87 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, March 7 2002 Volume 07 : Number 087 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Re: [scribes]: RE: Congratulations Re: [scribes]: Gulf Wars Scribe's Point Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) [scribes]: Gulf Wars-Classes [scribes]: Mudthaw Scribal Gathering [scribes]: Scriptorium in Drachewald [scribes]: Correction of email address [scribes]: gold Over-painting [scribes]: Re: gold Over-painting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:37:25 From: "Elyse Boucher" Subject: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Greetings from the humble scribe Merouda Pendray. I wish I could go to Gulf Wars. I can't. I'm using my vacation time to go to London--in England, not Ontario. ;-) My previous visit to England consists of a 20 minute layover at Gatwick. I know this question gets asked with fair frequency, but I didn't save the answers, since I didn't expect to hop over the pond anytime soon. I'll be nine nights there at the end of the month. What would you say are the must-sees? Miguel, my SO, is a motorcycle maniac, (how amusing that we live in the Harley Hometown and he's a BritBike fanatic), so I will have to cull my list down in order of priorities, because he deserves a chance to see the things he'll love, too. :-) It's been 15 years since I traveled overseas. I'm really looking forward to it; my only regret is that I can not fit Scandinavia in, too. Merouda may be English, but (don't let the French name fool you), Elyse is of Norweigan ancestry, and she longs to go to the homeland. Maybe next year. Looking forward to any suggestions you may have! Merouda - ------------ Merouda Pendray: Caer Anterth, Northshield, Middle. (Elyse C. Boucher: West Allis, Wisconsin, USA) Per pale sable and Or, a gryphon segreant countorney within an orle of feathers counterchanged. "Semper ubi sub ubi" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/merouda _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:23:17 -0500 From: Fionnseach du Lochielle Subject: Re: [scribes]: RE: Congratulations

In a message dated 3/5/2002 2:11:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, judi@frognet.net writes:

could be held on-list? Afterall, I do believe period pigments are completely on-topic for this list...

Im VERY interested in hearing about period pigments.....please.
Kahlen du Coeur

~=Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle=~
Not to have, but to give;
Not to take, but to receive.
=================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:04:31 EST From: PDRUSS@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gulf Wars Scribe's Point - --part1_118.d97f254.29b670bf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm doing an Acanthus Leaf class at A&S tent 3 on Thursday afternoon, but > I'll be glad to do a run through earlier in the week at Scribe's Point. > Man, I wish I was going to Gulf Wars. I've practices these leaves until I'm sick on looking at them. Mine all suck. Tamara - --part1_118.d97f254.29b670bf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm doing an Acanthus Leaf class at A&S tent 3 on Thursday afternoon, but I'll be glad to do a run through earlier in the week at Scribe's Point.

Man, I wish I was going to Gulf Wars. I've practices these leaves until I'm sick on looking at them. Mine all suck.

Tamara - --part1_118.d97f254.29b670bf_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:50:21 -0700 From: Catie Helm-Clark Subject: Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) > I'll be nine nights there at the end of the month. What would you say are > the must-sees? Westminster Abbey British Museum (though I don't know if they kept the iluminated manuscripts there in the museum or moved them out when the Bristish Library moved out - you might want to call ahead and find out. They used to do one hour lectures on illuminatied manuscripts there, where they took stuff out of the back rooms and the cases and let you see stuff up close. If they still do that, get in on one! I was so interested when I there that I got invited for a short walk through of their back rooms by the gal who gave the talk.) The Tate (more important art than you can shake a stick at) St. Paul's (especially the crypt where Nelson is buried and the walkway around the dome where you can whisper to someone directly opposite to you across the galleryway) those are my absolute musts in that order I used to have Tower of London on the absolute must list, but have since downgraded it to an optional since they moved the armoury collection out :( now the optionals if you're deep into seeing historical places, the Tower of London if you like archeology and anthro, Museum of London if you like things medieval and armour in general, the V&A museum (if you're lucky, and like things garb like, the collection of historical textiles is AWESOME, though I don't know what sort of arrangements you need to make these days to look at them) There's really cool japanese armour in the V&A too if you like things nautical, the National Maritine Museum in Greenich is a must-see, as well as the the HMS Victory, Nelson's ship at Trafalgar. (My dad was a shipwright, so I come by my naval history and boat addiction honestly...) If you can there, the Mary Rose museum is cool, and has some lovely tudor shoes I'd give my eye teeth for a few photos of... ;-) For things heraldic, the College of Arms off of St. James Park For kitcht, the changing of the guard at Buckingham palace Something the museum of london has recently started up is public access to real archeological artifacts in their collections. This access is absolutely free. So if there's something in the Museum of Longdon series on the finds in medieval garbage dumps of London (ie, Knives and Scabbards, Shoes and Pattens, Dress Accessories, Textiles, etc) that you would like to actually eyeball in person, you can do so, but you need to make an appointment in advance. The mudeum of longdom has their catalog of all archived artifacts on line, so you can research in advance for the catalog numbers of stuff you'd like to inspect in person. If this appeals to you, go for it, and consider taking a few photos of the ceramic buckle mold in Dress Accessories for me while you're there... ;-) Don't forget the obligatory trips to Harrod's for shopping, or the West End for a play or musical. Too bad Mousetrap finally closed :( If you have a little time to waste, consider fighting London's arcane regional transit trains and buses, and go to Epping Forest. It's really no big deal, but it's one of the last of the medieval forest remnants left in Europe, and it's on the northeast outskirts of London. Whenever I've been in London, one of my personal favorites (since I have been to almost every museum in the city) is to take the train to some rural spot in Surrey and go walking. Endland is a hiker's paradise, and it's so engrained as a custom, that you don't have to worry about being run off the range with a shotgun If you want a cool daytrip, take the train to Bath, and see the Baths, the Royal Crescent, and Bath Abbey. If you do Bath by car, budget time to stop at Stonehenge on the way back (if it's back open to the public yet) Let's hope Graidhne can coerce her hubby Charles to add his input, since he's pretty good on London, if I remember correctly... there, that should keep you busy for a few days... ttfn Therasia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:36:48 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) One other additions to the museums - go see the Wallace Collection. It's just off Oxford street (tube station is Marble Arch) and they have a tres cool armor collection there. It's one of the "less known" museums so generally isn't very crowded. They also have one of the worlds largest collections of portrait miniartures and lots of nice manuscripts and illuminated cuttings from stuff. If it comes down to costume collections - I think the Bath Costume Museum collection is better than the V&A's. The V&A does have tons of laces on display though, in their textile collection. Literally hundreds of drawers worth of the stuff, all under class and available to view if you've got about 8 days ;-). They also have a nice stained glass collection. Both the V&A and the British Museum have great jewelry collections too (the Brit's collection is larger but I think the V&A has a few more SCA period pieces). Tetchubah Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:23:29 -0600 From: Gwendoline Rosamond Subject: Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) Greetings, Well, I just came back from a month in England (I spent January there). And I can tell you that you will need at least a 4 month lead time to book a behind the scenes appointment at the V & A, Museum of London, or British Museum. They have become absolutely bogged down with requests. On the other hand, the lead time for the Bath Costume Museum is only two weeks. : ) If you email me with what you are specifically interested in, I might be able to help refine your search. But, I do think that the V & A is a must see, besides the British Galleries are now open. Cheers, Gwendoline At 02:50 PM 3/5/2002 -0700, Catie Helm-Clark wrote: > > I'll be nine nights there at the end of the month. What would you say are > > the must-sees? > >Westminster Abbey >British Museum (though I don't know if they kept the iluminated >manuscripts there in the museum or moved them out when the Bristish >Library moved out - you might want to call ahead and find out. They >used to do one hour lectures on illuminatied manuscripts there, where >they took stuff out of the back rooms and the cases and let you see >stuff up close. If they still do that, get in on one! I was so >interested when I there that I got invited for a short walk through of >their back rooms by the gal who gave the talk.) >The Tate (more important art than you can shake a stick at) >St. Paul's (especially the crypt where Nelson is buried and the >walkway around the dome where you can whisper to someone directly >opposite to you across the galleryway) > >those are my absolute musts in that order > >I used to have Tower of London on the absolute must >list, but have since downgraded it to an optional >since they moved the armoury collection out >:( > >now the optionals >if you're deep into seeing historical places, >the Tower of London >if you like archeology and anthro, Museum of London >if you like things medieval and armour in general, >the V&A museum (if you're lucky, and like things >garb like, the collection of historical textiles is >AWESOME, though I don't know what sort of arrangements >you need to make these days to look at them) >There's really cool japanese armour in the V&A too > >if you like things nautical, the National Maritine >Museum in Greenich is a must-see, as well as the >the HMS Victory, Nelson's ship at Trafalgar. (My >dad was a shipwright, so I come by my naval history >and boat addiction honestly...) >If you can there, the Mary Rose museum is cool, >and has some lovely tudor shoes I'd give my eye >teeth for a few photos of... ;-) >For things heraldic, the College of Arms off of >St. James Park > >For kitcht, the changing of the guard at Buckingham palace > >Something the museum of london has recently started up is >public access to real archeological artifacts in their >collections. This access is absolutely free. So if there's >something in the Museum of Longdon series on the finds in >medieval garbage dumps of London (ie, Knives and Scabbards, >Shoes and Pattens, Dress Accessories, Textiles, etc) that >you would like to actually eyeball in person, you can do so, >but you need to make an appointment in advance. The mudeum >of longdom has their catalog of all archived artifacts on >line, so you can research in advance for the catalog numbers >of stuff you'd like to inspect in person. If this appeals >to you, go for it, and consider taking a few photos of the >ceramic buckle mold in Dress Accessories for me while you're >there... ;-) > >Don't forget the obligatory trips to Harrod's for shopping, >or the West End for a play or musical. Too bad Mousetrap >finally closed :( > >If you have a little time to waste, consider fighting London's >arcane regional transit trains and buses, and go to Epping >Forest. It's really no big deal, but it's one of the last >of the medieval forest remnants left in Europe, and it's on >the northeast outskirts of London. > >Whenever I've been in London, one of my personal favorites >(since I have been to almost every museum in the city) is >to take the train to some rural spot in Surrey and go walking. >Endland is a hiker's paradise, and it's so engrained as a >custom, that you don't have to worry about being run off >the range with a shotgun > >If you want a cool daytrip, take the train to Bath, and see >the Baths, the Royal Crescent, and Bath Abbey. If you do >Bath by car, budget time to stop at Stonehenge on the way >back (if it's back open to the public yet) > >Let's hope Graidhne can coerce her hubby Charles to add his >input, since he's pretty good on London, if I remember correctly... > >there, that should keep you busy for a few days... >ttfn >Therasia >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:47:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Suggestions, please. :-) On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Elyse Boucher wrote: > Greetings from the humble scribe Merouda Pendray. > > I wish I could go to Gulf Wars. I can't. I'm using my vacation time to go to > London--in England, not Ontario. ;-) > Oooooh. I admit huge amounts of envy. We actually managed to spend 10 days in the south of England and avoid London altogether... It gets its own trip at some point. If you can spare the time, Winchester Cathedral's library is open to the public, I *think* by appointment or at specific times. I remember that the day we were there did not qualify. The Winchester Bible lives there. Winchester is south and westish of London, so you'd need to figure out a bus or rent a car. If you take your camera, many museums and cathedrals require a photography permit, and do not allow flash photography. Margaret FitzWilliam =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:57:14 +0000 From: "Russell Husted" Subject: [scribes]: Gulf Wars-Classes I will be teaching two classes at gulf wars. Tuesday at 4, I am teaching a class on writing arabic. It is an introduction to the letter shapes and how they go together. It is only an introductory class, but if you do not read arabic, I recomend it. It will help you if you do any middle eastern scrolls and want them to look more arabic. Friday at 2, I am teaching my illusionary script. If you do not already write arabic please take my tuesday class or the Friday at 1 class just before mine to understand that arabic language better first. If you cannot take any of the intro to arabic classes you can still learn a lot from the class, so please come. Illusionary script is not psuedo or arabicish script. I teach people to write arabic correctly in such a way that you see english where there is none, not pervert the shapes of letters to fit english printed letters or make english letters look arabicy. I have seen some beautiful scripts that do both, it is just not what I am doing. I will be teaching in the Al-Mahala lecture tent. I hope to see you there. your servant, mahee _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:32:31 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Mudthaw Scribal Gathering - --part1_141.a97b7e8.29b8010f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good eve all... Just wanted to let everyone know that I have been able to secure a small room at Mudthaw (East Kingdom, Settmour Swamp) on 3-23 for any scribes who wish to gather, display work, and chew the fat about things scribal, etc. The room is reserved for 1 hr, starting at 1:30pm. Please let me know if anyone is planning on dropping in - I'd like to give the autocrat a head count. Thanks! Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (East, An Dubhaigheainn) E.Frank, Long Island NY - --part1_141.a97b7e8.29b8010f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good eve all...

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have been able to secure a small room at Mudthaw (East Kingdom, Settmour Swamp) on 3-23 for any scribes who wish to gather, display work, and chew the fat about things scribal, etc.

The room is reserved for 1 hr, starting at 1:30pm. Please let me know if anyone is planning on dropping in - I'd like to give the autocrat a head count.
Thanks!

Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" (East, An Dubhaigheainn)
E.Frank, Long Island NY - --part1_141.a97b7e8.29b8010f_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:50:36 +0100 From: Subject: [scribes]: Scriptorium in Drachewald Greetings to the Scribes of the Known World This is a first information about a 5 day Scriptorium event coming up in October. The Drachenwald Signet Clerk, Lady Signe Sigurdsdotter, email: anna@passoprimo.se, asked me to forward it to you. "I will also take this opportunity to let you know that there will be a Drachenwald Scriptorium in Uppsala (Aros) the 14-18 of October 2002. A site is booked, and some teachers, and visits to Uppsala University Library and Royal Library of Stockolm will be organized. The subjects for the classes are so far: distribution in making a scroll, different calligraphy from different time periods, how to apply gold leaf and making a quill pen. The price for the course including full board, teaching and excurtions will be maximum 2500 SEK, approx. 220 US $." Last year's scriptorium in England with visits to the Fitzwilliam Museum and the British Library proved so successfull and fun that the scribes in Aros are planning a similar event in the Principality of Nordmark (Sweden). Stockholm's Arlanda airport is located conveniently for travel to both Uppsala and Stockholm and has good public transportation as well. Not to mention all the wonderfull museums in both towns .... Updates will follow once more details get finalized. Yours, Oriane d'Avallon Drei Eichen Drachenwald ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:59:32 +0100 From: Subject: [scribes]: Correction of email address Sorry - I got our clerk signet's email address wrong. It's anna@passoprimo.com My apologies Oriane ________________________________________________________________ Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:03:44 -0800 (PST) From: abbondanza Subject: [scribes]: gold Over-painting Greetings on this fine March morning to all! I have been looking for a term used to describe the over painting technique of gold (washes?) onto, specifically clothing wherein the gold looks to be more of a highlight than a patterned display of gold. Any ideas? In service, Antoinette de la Croix of Stormsport, Aethelmearc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:24:33 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: gold Over-painting - --part1_175.4aa2235.29b8e031_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/2002 8:04:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, delacroi29@yahoo.com writes: > > I have been looking for a term used to describe the over > painting technique of gold (washes?) onto, specifically clothing > wherein the gold looks to be more of a highlight than a > patterned display of gold. > I don't know the term, but I call it gold work. It seems to have been a fairly common practice. It doesn't show up in pictures very well, and hardly at all in books, but in person you can really see the highlights.... so long as the light is hitting a piece right. :-) The earliest example I have personally seen is early 1400's (French) but it continued to be popular throughout the end of SCA period in some styles/areas. Most of what I have seen is on clothing, halos or Italian ren acanthus work. It may be more broadly used, but those are the styles I spend the most time drooling over .... I mean looking at :-) Some of it is obvious, some of it is very subtle. Sometimes it was used as a highlight, other times it is used like whitework, in diapering or painted inside letters. I especially like the piece that has very faint golden angels filling the red background. :-) It's the one on the cover of the Blackburn Collection exhibit book from the Cleveland. It's easy to think from just seeing the picture that it is whitework, but when you see it in person there is no doubt it is gold. When I do this technique I use shell gold - a little on the wet side. It looks right. (I have experimented using Schminke gold gouache and while it works, it doesn't work as well.) The underpainting really makes a nice background for the gold and you won't need as much as you would to cover a bare area. A little shell gold goes a long way here. It has a striking effect when used to highlight any color. Have fun Eibhlin - --part1_175.4aa2235.29b8e031_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/2002 8:04:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, delacroi29@yahoo.com writes:

I have been looking for a term used to describe the over
painting technique of gold (washes?) onto, specifically clothing
wherein the gold looks to be more of a highlight than a
patterned display of gold.

I don't know the term, but I call it gold work. It seems to have been a fairly common practice. It doesn't show up in pictures very well, and hardly at all in books, but in person you can really see the highlights....
so long as the light is hitting a piece right. :-)

The earliest example I have personally seen is early 1400's (French) but it continued to be popular throughout the end of SCA period in some styles/areas. Most of what I have seen is on clothing, halos or Italian ren acanthus work. It may be more broadly used, but those are the styles I spend the most time drooling over .... I mean looking at :-)

Some of it is obvious, some of it is very subtle. Sometimes it was used as a highlight, other times it is used like whitework, in diapering or painted inside letters. I especially like the piece that has very faint golden angels filling the red background. :-) It's the one on the cover of the Blackburn Collection exhibit book from the Cleveland. It's easy to think from just seeing the picture that it is whitework, but when you see it in person there is no doubt it is gold.

When I do this technique I use shell gold - a little on the wet side. It looks right. (I have experimented using Schminke gold gouache and while it works, it doesn't work as well.) The underpainting really makes a nice background for the gold and you won't need as much as you would to cover a bare area. A little shell gold goes a long way here. It has a striking effect when used to highlight any color.

Have fun
Eibhlin - --part1_175.4aa2235.29b8e031_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #87 ****************************