From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #84 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, March 1 2002 Volume 07 : Number 084 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Introduction [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Re: [scribes]: Introduction Re: [scribes]: New Manesse Web Page Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Re: [scribes]: howdy RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested [scribes]: Ebb & Flow Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Re: [scribes]: Ebb & Flow Re: [scribes]: Ebb & Flow Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:19:08 -0600 (CST) From: sburnell@raex.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction Welcome, Sister Fionnseach! There are a few of us scribes several hours north of you up in the Gwyntarian/Alderford area (Akron/Canton). We're not that far apart geographically, actually. Keep plugging along down there in Dernehealde, I am sure you will inspire others to take up pen and brush! Also, check around over in MugMort and Tirnewydd - they may have some scribes over in those groups, too. In fact, do you know THLady Roewynne Langley? I don't know which group she belongs to, but she's an active scribe down your way. I can try to get you two in touch and see if you can get together to get scribing going down there in SE Ohio. I'm at work right now and have Roewynne's contact info at home, so when I get home tonight, I can forward that off to you! Welcome to the list, and hope to meet you in person soon! THLady Saradwen Ariandalen Marche of Gwyntarian (Akron/Kent, OH) Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Kira Stanley Subject: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Hi there. Just thought I would introduce myself as requested (plus, I have been lurking for several months). My name is Lady Sasha Gray. I originally hail from Atenveldt, but currently live in the Outlands. My main SCA activity is rapier combat, but I am a passable scribe. Although I do not currently play in the SCA at all in the Outlands, I was very active in the scribal arts in Atenveldt, and expect to be very active again when I go away to graduate school in one year (don't know where yet, but Aethelmearc is at the top of the list right now). I can and will do any style from Romanesque on - I do not do Celtic at all. My favorite style is Trompe L'oeil (Hastings Hours, for instance) and I like 14th century French almost as well. I consider drawing/painting to be my strong suit - I am much weaker at calligraphy but am working on that. Unfortunately, I don't have a web page with examples of my work (maybe someday!). I have been told by a Laurel that I am doing GOA quality work (and indeed, have been assigned many Grant level award scrolls in Atenveldt and the Outlands). Although I am not currently playing in the Outlands, I still can occasionally take scroll assignments from other places and am totally capable of drawing scroll blanks for others to paint. So...if there are any kingdom scribes out there with a backlog right now, please feel free to contact me (Artemisia??) and I may be able to help you out a little. Lady Sasha Gray mka Kira Marie Stanley Barony of Dragonsspine Colorado Springs Kingdom of the Outlands Colorado ===== "Proud member of the cult of the scientific method." "Example is not the main thing in influencing others. It is the ONLY thing." - Albert Schweitzer "When we quit thinking primarily about ourselves and our own self-preservation, we undergo a truly heroic transformation of consciousness." - Joseph Campbell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:01:39 -0800 (PST) From: Suzanne Powell Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction Very nice work! Welcome back to the fold ;) - -- Suzanne - --- Fionnseach du Lochielle wrote: > Greetings to all who gather here: > > By way of introduction, I am Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle (mka Judith > Taylor). I am 'returning to the fold' if you will after a hiatus of about 4 > years or so. In my previous SCA life, I was what some describe a 'combat > scribe'. Often at events, I could be found furiously (but not angrily ;) > penning away at some scroll or other....occassionally I would be finishing > the illumination portion of a scroll of my own, to be given in that evening's > Court. That was then....and may happen again in the future, who knows. > > My interests now are in 13th French (ok, to be honest, I love most of the > callig and illum of just about any period, any locale prior to Guttenburg's > devilish printing machine ;) manuscripts. My love being the Maciejowski Bible > (aka the Morgan Crusading Bible and/or Old Testament Miniatures). [Yes, it > was illumed in Paris, no, my persona isn't from there but from the region > known as the Dutchy of Brittaigne (Brittany).] > > I currently reside in the Shire of Dernehealde (Athens, Ohio) and to my > knowledge, am most likely the only scribe here. When I attend the Shire > meetings, I bring out my 'stuff' and work on scroll blanks. I also bring with > me my copy of de Hamel's book (keeping careful track of who has it ;) and > Drogin's book....hoping to inspire others to at least give it a try. If I > have any success, I will eventually look to organizing a scribal guild > here....or maybe in conjuntion with some of the other Southeastern Ohio > Shires/Marches/etc. > > I unfortunately, do not have a portfolio of my work from my 'previous life', > but I have started one (currently only one scroll) and it is online at > http://frognet.net/~judi/Interests/scribal_arts.html I do plan on getting > the rest of the documentation online for it....someday. ;) > > Well, I think I've prattled on long enough....and I thank you for your > indulgence... > > In Service to the Arts and the Dream, > I remain... > Sister Fionnseach du Lochielle Shire of Dernehealde > Barony of the Middle Marches Middle Kingdom > mka Judith Taylor Athens, Ohio > > Not to have, but to give; > Not to take, but to receive. > > =================================================================== ===== HL Suzanne de la Ferté Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra - ------------------------------------------------------------ Suzanne C. Powell San Antonio, Texas suzanne_powell@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:06:52 -0800 (PST) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: Re: [scribes]: New Manesse Web Page - --- oriane@web.de wrote: > Good morning everybody > > What a great day - I just came across a new link for the Codex Manesse > from the university in Heidelberg, which has the ENTIRE Codex ONLINE!!!! > The text pages as well, not just the pictures! > > It's all in German, but you don't need to speak that language to navigate > around the site, after all, arrows work in all languages :-) > Supposedly you can get close-ups from each page, too, but so far I have > received empty pages only, but I need to try on another PC as well. > > Here you go, enjoy: > > http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/sammlung2/allg/cpg.xml?docname=cpg848 > > Oriane d'Avallon > Drei Eichen, Drachenwald Nice site. I found the button to convert to English (limited). From the above link, click on the second button on the left margin, labeled 'Unser Service' with a lady in blue. Now up at the top toolbar, on the far right, is a button labeled 'English'. However, it does not appear to be converted to English on all pages, especially not the Codex Manesse pages. Ah well, but some of it is in English. Hillary Greenslade, Ansteorra hillaryrg@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:39:23 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested >>Unfortunately, I don't have a web page with examples of my work (maybe someday!). I have been told by a Laurel that I am doing GOA quality work (and indeed, have been assigned many Grant level award scrolls in Atenveldt and the Outlands).<< This statement has got me to wondering - do you have to be a Laurel or other Peer in Atenveldt and Outlands to do peerage scrolls??? That would just boggle my mind - I've been doing them practically since I started and long before I got my Laurel (I started doing scrolls in about 1981 or 1982, and didn't get my Laurel until 1996). Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:51:04 -0500 From: "Jessica Wilbur" Subject: Re: [scribes]: howdy On 1 Mar 02, at 6:51, Susan Arthur wrote: > Greetings, all, from Baroness Lucia Bellini. > I am guildmistress of the Windmasters' Hill scriptorium in Atlantia, > and am most happy to teach new scribes in my area. My particular > favorite part of the scribal activities is painting (I use modern > gouache) and the area in which I consider myself weakest is > calligraphy. I have been working on it, however, and my results are at > least passable. :-) > > In service, > Lucia Um, Your Excellency, your calligraphy is more than passable. Your Humanist hand on my Pearl scroll is flawless! I wish I could write like you. =) - --Giuliana Salviati (formerly known as Muireann ni Riordain) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:25:22 -0800 From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested If I understand her correctly... I think she means that she feels that she is capable of doing scrolls of a complexity level commonly associated with GOA scrolls. :-) I used to think in the same terms... at first I was uncomfortable doing anything but "Baronial Level" stuff. Then I tried my first "AoA" level scroll, then a couple of Grants, and then finally my first Peerage, which was a NERVE WRACKING experience. :-) On a Related Topic: One thing I would like to point out (and this isn't an attempt at self serving criticism, ether *laugh) is that there do not seem to be enough Scribal Laurels in the Western Kingdoms. I suspect that this is also true elsewhere. In An Tir currently there are only about 3 active scribal Laurels, and when I lived in Caid there were about 5 that were producing scrolls regularly. I have often wondered if the ebb-and-flow of scribal interest can be related to incidents of Scribes being Elevated to the OL? In other words, does scribal interest go up around the time of a fellow scribes laurelling? If this is so, what does it mean? I suspect that one of the reasons why it is so hard to get a strong scribal "ethic" going again during an "ebb" is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in being a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due to their relatively higher Laurel content... Not to pick on anyone specific, but I am thinking about the Costumers. Everywhere I have lived, there seems to be a lot more costume Laurels than scribal ones... and a lot more people interested in costuming. Maybe the real root of the problem is that I cannot understand why someone would want to be a costumer instead of a scribe, and am inventing fanciful explanations to explain this perplexing phenomenon... *laugh* Of course, this is a very "period" thing to do... Cystennin, who has to get back to his code now. - -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com [mailto:Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:39 AM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested >>Unfortunately, I don't have a web page with examples of my work (maybe someday!). I have been told by a Laurel that I am doing GOA quality work (and indeed, have been assigned many Grant level award scrolls in Atenveldt and the Outlands).<< This statement has got me to wondering - do you have to be a Laurel or other Peer in Atenveldt and Outlands to do peerage scrolls??? That would just boggle my mind - I've been doing them practically since I started and long before I got my Laurel (I started doing scrolls in about 1981 or 1982, and didn't get my Laurel until 1996). Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested > I have often wondered if the ebb-and-flow of scribal interest > can be related to incidents of Scribes being Elevated to the > OL? In other words, does scribal interest go up around the > time of a fellow scribes laurelling? If this is so, what does > it mean? I suspect that one of the reasons why it is so hard > to get a strong scribal "ethic" going again during an "ebb" > is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in being > a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due > to their relatively higher Laurel content... Not to pick on > anyone specific, but I am thinking about the Costumers. > Everywhere I have lived, there seems to be a lot more costume > Laurels than scribal ones... and a lot more people interested > in costuming. This is odd -- in our area of the East Kingdom, we've heard rumors that people see C&I as a "fast track" to receiving a Laurel, because the exposure of scrolls is much higher. Of course, I think the way that the East Kingdom handles scrolls is different... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:14:44 -0700 From: "Laurel Anderson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested > This statement has got me to wondering - do you have to be a Laurel or > other Peer in Atenveldt and Outlands to do peerage scrolls??? The scribe's rank is not an issue in the Outlands. I certainly did quite a few peerage scrolls before I got my Laurel (or a grant) Most peerage scrolls in the Outlands are commissioned by the recipient. Averil duBois d'Avignon Citadel/ Outlands (El Paso, TX) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:39:47 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: [scribes]: Ebb & Flow Greetings: I am not 100% sure of the number of active scribal Laurels in the Middle Kingdom, but the number is fairly close to around 15 or more (of course, we are a very large kingdom, geographically). I don't see the ebb and flow here that you seem to, Cystennin, but I do think that if it is here in the Midrealm, it is due to a paucity of any scribal instruction, as well as the quality of that instruction. I do think that interest in scribal arts here in the Middle *is* tied to how much positive recognition the scribes are given by Royalty during scroll presentation, however. When we've had Reigns where Royalty didn't recognize the scribes for Their courts, we had a more difficult time getting scribes to do the work... and it works the other way around... with good recognition, lots of scribes volunteer. I did Peerage scrolls long before I was ever elevated to the Laurel, but then, I was also Kingdom Signet for most of the year prior to my elevation, and I sort of got to pick and choose (to a certain extent). I think here in the Middle, the scribal world tends to give Peerage scroll assignments to those "we" seem to think might be ready for stronger notice by the Crown and Laureate, in general. Also, the Middle tends to have long vigils, and the Royalty allow the honoree to chose their own scribe for their scroll -- if they want to... or it is done by a select bunch of scribal friends. For other scroll assignments, ours are usually assigned by regions... so scribes in a specific region do the work for any particular court being held in their region. This spreads out the workload a little. We usually have anywhere from 10 to 25 active scribes in any one region... with exceptions both ways. We are split into six regions at this time, one of which is a Principality. Being a scribe in the Middle Kingdom has the plus of Royalty seeing their work on a fairly regular basis, and that CANNOT hurt one little bit for elevation when it is the right TIME!! Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn (KHvS), OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom http://ww1.comteck.com/~meisterin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:47:32 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested > I have often wondered if the ebb-and-flow of scribal interest can be > related to incidents of Scribes being Elevated to the OL? In other > words, does scribal interest go up around the time of a fellow scribes > laurelling? If this is so, what does it mean? I suspect that one of the > reasons why it is so hard to get a strong scribal "ethic" going again > during an "ebb" is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in > being a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due to > their relatively higher Laurel content... Not to pick on anyone > specific, but I am thinking about the Costumers. Everywhere I have > lived, there seems to be a lot more costume Laurels than scribal ones... > and a lot more people interested in costuming. Well, now, this is an interesting thought. Y'know, there aren't that many scribal Laurels in the Midrealm, and most of them are folks I know (Hi, M. Siobhan, Hi, M. RanthulfR, Hi, M. Katarina, Hi, M. Timothy, M. Llyrydwyl, you still here with us?). I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of scribal Laurels that I do know. And this begs an interesting question about the ebb and flow of scribal interest. Back when we were first getting started scribing here in my locality (mumblty) odd years ago now, there was a goo-gob of interest, maybe because it was such a new thing back then and because, for the first time that anyone could remember, we had local Royalty who needed scrolls. We currently have local Royalty again, and I am hoping that this will spur on the local scribes to greater effort. Cleftlands (Cleveland, OH), our neighbours just to the north of us (hey, Pietro, you still here?) has a very active - and enviable - scribe's guild. I am fortunate to be in contact with them from time to time and get the occasional scroll assignment from their Guild head (thank you, Guinevere!). I think having Alys and Valharic local to us will spur on the local scribes out this way and maybe even inspire aspiring scribes to try their hand at scribing. I do think it helps to have scribal Laurels around to teach and share, but even so, lacking Laurels, just having folks around who are willing to teach and share what they know is enough to get people scribing and to generate interest. That is evident from what happened all those many (mumblety) years ago back when I was first starting out. It wasn't until I really got into it that I met some of the scribal Laurels out there, like M. Siobhan and others. There were none here locally when I first started. Oh, Master Rufus the Short got his Laurel after a time, but then moved out east, so we didn't have him around for very long after he was elevated. So we were quite bereft of scribe Laurels until folks like Llyrydwyl and Aidan Elfaedur, both at the time from Cleftlands, got theirs. Anyway, there aren't very many scribe Laurels out there. Maybe because the bar is so very high, or maybe because there aren't many people scribing, or..............I just don't know. Anyway, for what it's worth, at least there are two scribe Laurels relatively local to me, M. Aidan Elfaedur in Cleftlands and M. Llyrydwyl in Alderford (Canton, OH). So that's always nice. ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:54:23 -0800 From: "Jennifer Tate" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested Greetings from a new scribe in An Tir, My name is Lady Gisela Redihalgh. I am very new and eager to learn on the subject of the scribal arts. From my own experience, I have found illumination challenging and something I can be passionate about. I also feel intimidated by calligraphy. As a result I have been less willing to jump into the mix feet first. Perhaps this intimidation, mixed with the lower visibility of those who excel in the art here in the Western Kingdoms has caused people to choose other artistic paths. Knowing that your artwork is going to someone who may or may not like what you have done can be overwhelming. With costuming, that factor *can* be removed. Just a thought. Lady Gisela >From: "Ken Stoner" >To: , >Subject: RE: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested >Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:25:22 -0800 > >If I understand her correctly... I think she means that she feels that >she is capable of doing scrolls of a complexity level commonly >associated with GOA scrolls. :-) > >I used to think in the same terms... at first I was uncomfortable doing >anything but "Baronial Level" stuff. Then I tried my first "AoA" level >scroll, then a couple of Grants, and then finally my first Peerage, >which was a NERVE WRACKING experience. :-) > >On a Related Topic: >One thing I would like to point out (and this isn't an attempt at self >serving criticism, ether *laugh) is that there do not seem to be enough >Scribal Laurels in the Western Kingdoms. I suspect that this is also >true elsewhere. In An Tir currently there are only about 3 active >scribal Laurels, and when I lived in Caid there were about 5 that were >producing scrolls regularly. > >I have often wondered if the ebb-and-flow of scribal interest can be >related to incidents of Scribes being Elevated to the OL? In other >words, does scribal interest go up around the time of a fellow scribes >laurelling? If this is so, what does it mean? I suspect that one of the >reasons why it is so hard to get a strong scribal "ethic" going again >during an "ebb" is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in >being a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due to >their relatively higher Laurel content... Not to pick on anyone >specific, but I am thinking about the Costumers. Everywhere I have >lived, there seems to be a lot more costume Laurels than scribal ones... >and a lot more people interested in costuming. > >Maybe the real root of the problem is that I cannot understand why >someone would want to be a costumer instead of a scribe, and am >inventing fanciful explanations to explain this perplexing phenomenon... >*laugh* Of course, this is a very "period" thing to do... > >Cystennin, who has to get back to his code now. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com >[mailto:Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com] >Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:39 AM >To: scribes@castle.org >Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested > > > >>Unfortunately, I don't have a web page with examples of my work (maybe >someday!). I have been told >by a Laurel that I am doing GOA quality work (and indeed, have been >assigned many Grant level >award scrolls in Atenveldt and the Outlands).<< > >This statement has got me to wondering - do you have to be a Laurel or >other Peer in Atenveldt and Outlands to do peerage scrolls??? > >That would just boggle my mind - I've been doing them practically since >I >started and long before I got my Laurel (I started doing scrolls in >about >1981 or 1982, and didn't get my Laurel until 1996). > >Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid > >Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:34:40 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ebb & Flow I'm not sure of the reasons for the lack of scribal interest in Caid. It might be, as Cystennin suggested, the lack of a clear "Laurelate track", but on the other hand the fact that there weren't that many scribal Laurels around never deterred me from doing scribal stuff. When I started doing scrolls, I had never even seen one in the flesh - I lived in Western Seas, which was remote from the rest of the kingdom (Hawaii), and although a few people had awards at the time none of them had scrolls for them. I started doing them to fill that need and it was sort of a case of "You can do calligraphy? How'd you like to do these?" Fortunately, Eowyn was Scribe Armarius at the time and when I asked her what a scroll was, she thoughtfully provided pictures. I just loved (and still do) just about everything concerned with calligraphy and illumination and regardless of the recognition or lack thereof wasn't going to give it up just to get a Laurel. I think there was something like 13 years between my first getting a recognition of my art (my Harp Argent, Caid's AoA level arts award) and my getting elevated to the peerage. But on the other hand, I still don't consider a lot of my work to be "laurel quality" although it's certainly better than what I used to do. But that's also why it takes longer to get scrolls done - I can't just whip them out anymore like I used to because I do take more pains with them. I think to some degree there's a recognition problem in general of the scribal art. Costuming is seen at every event, and can be pretty flashy. Scrolls are seen at only a few events here in Caid (we only give out the hand done ones at maybe 3 events per year) and then are seen only briefly before disappearing into the recipient's hands, maybe never to be seen again. Regardless of how flashy they are, I don't think a lot of the populace gets a good idea of what they were and what was involved, particularly in a large hall. And many of our Scribe Laurels here aren't producing much anymore - I'm only doing maybe 2 scrolls per year (but I consider having the Society Exchequer's job to be my excuse in that area). Eowyn's doing more needlework than scrolls right now. James is doing some, but I don't know how many - not too many per year. Louise is nearly inactive and is more into jewelrymaking anyway when she does have time to do things. Elyramere is doing scrolls, but mostly for Darach folk. David Fletcher is completely inactive, Zenobia moved to An Tir, Angela is inactive, Atanielle is inactive. While a lot of these folk weren't strictly Scribal Laurels, they did do scrolls as a secondary. Some non-laurel people who used to do scrolls a lot don't do them anymore (or rarely do them to my knowledge). Not sure if that's lack of recognition, burn out, or just a change of interests. Also, we really haven't pushed the scribal stuff around here lately. The Scribe Armarius does what they can, but sometimes it seems like it's an uphill battle. Tetchubah Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:26:27 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ebb & Flow See, we have to wait until there is going to be a local court to get scroll commissions from the Regional Signet, since they tend to assign scrolls by the Region. For example, if there is going to be a Royal Court in the Pentamere Region of the Midrealm (Michigan and a tiny slice of Ontario), then the Pentamere Signet will assign the scrolls to the Pentamere scribes, regardless whether folks from Constellation (Indiana), Oaken (Ohio/Kentucky, thus Oh-Ken, get it?), Midlands (Illinois and a tiny slice of Iowa) or the Principality of Northshield are attending. I live in the Oaken Region, which is split into North Oaken (most of Ohio except the Dayton/Cincinnati metro area) and South Oaken (Dayton/Cincy metro area and Kentucky), so if a court is going to be held, say, in Lexington, KY in the Shire of Dragonsmark, then the scribes down that way will get the scroll assignments. Likewise, if a court is going to be held in the Barony of Cleftlands (Cleveland, OH), then those of us up this way will get the nod to do the scrolls. So how many scrolls I get to do yearly is very much dependent on how many local courts are going to be held out this way. We've been pretty lucky in recent years that a lot of courts have been in this area, so I've gotten to do quite a few, but still, it would seem that at the most, I get to do about a half dozen award scrolls a year, plus my yearly Arts and Sciences Faire entry that I make every year. I suppose I should consider myself lucky, though, compared to my earlier scribal days, when the volume expected of me was....well, suffice it to say that I felt like a one-person scroll factory! I was much younger, had better eyesight and dexterity then, too....................(sigh). I think it's kinda hard to get your work noticed when you are a scribe. You make the scroll, it goes to the Royalty Room to be signed before Court, then it goes out that day to the recipient, and maybe they will hold it up for the audience to oooooooooooooooh and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah at so you get a brief glance at it, and maybe you can corner the recipient after court and ask kindly to look at their pretty scroll and ask who did it. (I do this all the time, unashamedly!! Do I want to know who's doing what? You betcha!) Then it goes home to hang on someone's wall, only to be seen if you go to their house. Garb, on the other hand, we all see when someone wears it. Oh, I have my portfolio at many events, and anyone's welcome to sidle on up to me and ask to have a peek (and if I EVER figure out the mysteries of creating and publishing a web site......I could get my stuff up on the web for y'all to gawk at!). But it's not the same as sauntering into court in your latest Tudor gown or glitzy Houpelande. And some Royalty aren't as open about acknowledging the contributions of the scribes. I liked when HRM Tamara, during her Reign, began giving out lovely cloth scribal favours to scribes who made scrolls for court. I got mine during the Reign of Edmund and Kateryn (Kateryn herself is a scribe, so she appreciates the work we do, as is Tamara!). I wear it proudly on my very distinctive yellow Protegé belt (so if you ever see me at an event, I wear a white scribal favour with a red stripe down the middle, just like the Midrealm banner, and embroidered on it is the scribal badge of a silver quill over a gold scroll). Other sets of Royalty have given out other small tokens of thanks to the scribes, and these small tokens, no matter how simple, can mean the world to a weary scribe! It lets us know that we're appreciated and really bolsters morale. So if any of you by happenstance ever become sitting Royalty.......well, I know all of you scribes will certainly express your appreciation to your fellow scribes! It is SO nice when a scribe sits the throne! At least we know that we'll not be anonymous then! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:52:19 -0700 From: "Eva Mehlhose" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested > This statement has got me to wondering - do you have to be a Laurel or > other Peer in Atenveldt and Outlands to do peerage scrolls??? No no no and no that would be the day that anyone would be required to have any type of award to get a higher level assignment from me. Skill level is a definite consideration for high level awards, other than that, I do not judge at all. Also, I only use volunteers. In my opinion, a scribe offering to help will do a great job on a given assignment. The ones I would have to solicit, I just gave someone a chore to do that they normally not would have had to deal with. Has gotten me many beautiful scrolls during the last 2 years and a lot of smiling faces between Crowns, scribes and recipients. Lady Alyssandra von Drachenskralle aka Alex the scribe Kingdom Signet Atenveldt =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:44:42 EST From: EStavash@cs.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Another Introduction, As Requested - --part1_162.9aa15ac.29b1c0ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >One thing I would like to point out (and this isn't an attempt at self >serving criticism, ether *laugh) is that there do not seem to be enough >Scribal Laurels in the Western Kingdoms. Here in Artemisia, we are also low on Scribal Laurels, but we are a small Kingdom. In proportion to the number of Laurels overall, the numbers don't seem that bad, but since we are so large geographically, it can be difficult to get teachers and students to the same place at the same time. Although we have some very talented individual scribes, the overall level of scribal arts in Artemisia is rather low compared to our neighboring kingdoms. (It's improving though-- when I got my AoA about 5 years ago, it was a black and white photocopy colored with markers, but that doesn't seem to happen anymore.) Still, the problem of geography means there is very little organized teaching, and I think this hurts us. I hadn't fully realized the difference until I saw the portfolios at the Scribal Tea at Estrella-- I realized that the work of the less experienced scribes seemed to be closely modeled after that of the experienced ones, usually in layout, but also in the style of calligraphy and sometimes the style of illumination as well. They were not copies, but the beginning scribes obviously had mentors helping them get started. By comparison, I have never had such direct help from anyone-- general advice, yes, but never help on a particular scroll-- and many of the scribes I know could say the same. My models have always been pictures of the manuscripts themselves, not the work of other scribes. (This sounds like a good thing in theory, but it's a rough way to start.) > I suspect that one of the reasons why it is so hard to get a >strong scribal "ethic" going again >during an "ebb" is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in >being a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due to >their relatively higher Laurel content... As a brand new Laurel whose primary art is textiles (mostly spinning and some weaving, *not* costuming!) I actually found that I got much more attention for my scribal work, at which I am relatively new, than for my spinning. I am much more experienced and knowledgable about fiber than about scribal arts, but it's hard to make a big impression with a spool of thread! ;^) As far as costuming being more popular, that might have to do with the fact that unless you're rich enough to buy all your garb, you have to learn something about sewing just to be able to play-- and you might discover along the way that it's fun, and that you're good at it. (Well, maybe *you* will discover this... no such luck for me.) On the other hand, it's relatively easy to play for years without ever setting pen or brush to paper. Ellen - --part1_162.9aa15ac.29b1c0ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >One thing I would like to point out (and this isn't an attempt at self
>serving criticism, ether *laugh) is that there do not seem to be enough
>Scribal Laurels in the Western Kingdoms.

Here in Artemisia, we are also low on Scribal Laurels, but we are a small Kingdom.  In proportion to the number of Laurels overall, the numbers don't seem that bad, but since we are so large geographically, it can be difficult to get teachers and students to the same place at the same time.  Although we have some very talented individual scribes,  the overall level of scribal arts in Artemisia is rather low compared to our neighboring kingdoms. (It's improving though-- when I got my AoA about 5 years ago, it was a black and white photocopy colored with markers, but that doesn't seem to happen anymore.)  Still, the problem of geography means there is very little organized teaching, and I think this hurts us.

I hadn't fully realized the difference until I saw the portfolios at the Scribal Tea at Estrella-- I realized that the work of the less experienced scribes seemed to be closely modeled after that of the experienced ones, usually in layout, but also in the style of calligraphy and sometimes the style of illumination as well.  They were not copies, but the beginning scribes obviously had mentors helping them get started.  By comparison, I have never had such direct help from anyone-- general advice, yes, but never help on a particular scroll-- and many of the scribes I know could say the same. My models have always been pictures of the manuscripts themselves, not the work of other scribes.  (This sounds like a good thing in theory, but it's a rough way to start.)

> I suspect that one of the reasons why it is so hard to get a
>strong scribal "ethic" going again
>during an "ebb" is that potential scribes don't see a "Career Path" in
>being a scribe. The other arts seem to be much more attractive due to
>their relatively higher Laurel content...

As a brand new Laurel whose primary art is textiles (mostly spinning and some weaving, *not* costuming!) I actually found that I got much more attention for my scribal work, at which I am relatively new, than for my spinning.  I am much more experienced and knowledgable about fiber than about scribal arts, but it's hard to make a big impression with a spool of thread! ;^)

As far as costuming being more popular, that might have to do with the fact that unless you're rich enough to buy all your garb, you have to learn something about sewing just to be able to play-- and you might discover along the way that it's fun, and that you're good at it. (Well, maybe *you* will discover this... no such luck for me.)  On the other hand, it's relatively easy to play for years without ever setting pen or brush to paper.

Ellen


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