From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #81 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, February 24 2002 Volume 07 : Number 081 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? [scribes]: Re: scribes digest V7 #80 RE: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? Re: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem [scribes]: Osmiroid nib [scribes]: Atlantian Scribes need your support [scribes]: Scribal Activities at Kingdom A&S Festival Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:30:51 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? I know we've had this discussion a few times in the past, but I'm heading out to an art supply store in 10 minutes and will be near a Michael's and AC Moore this weekend up in Connecticut... Basically I'm looking for a recommendation for a gold paint. I have Windsor & Newton gouache (which looks coppery), W&N ink (which oxidizes and eventually turns greenish), and have Testor's enamel (which requires an underlay of paint/gesso to prevent the oil from seeping through the paper). The local art supply shop doesn't carry Pelican products anymore (I just called) -- perhaps one of the ones in CT might, but if I don't get anything during lunch hour, I'd love to hear any recommendation for a means of using paint instead of the 24 kt. leaf I have, for (extra fine) detail work on a current assignment. Thanks! - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" An Dubhaigheainn, East (E.Frank, Long Island, NY) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:49:22 -0500 From: Christine Hutson Subject: [scribes]: Re: scribes digest V7 #80 Greetings: I have an answer for you on this. Some pigments are indeed hydrophobic, and will not mix with water easily. There are a few things you can do. One, you can buy "ox gall", and mix this with the pigment before you add water or gum arabic. This is bile from a cow's gallbladder, and it breaks the surface tension of the water or binder so that the pigment will go into it. This can be obtained form art supply stores or craft stores that carry paint. Winsor and Newton and Rowney are the most common manufacturers. Another solution is to add rubbing alcohol first. This will make even the most obstinate pigment into a paste, and then you add binder. The last solution is to make egg tempera; egg yolk is a great emulsifier, and will work wonderfully. Egg white or glair made from it is not so good for hydrophobic pigment, it is too watery. I hope this helps. This problem frustrated me too when I began to use pigments, and I finally found the answer in a book somewhere. Good luck... Lady Kris Gilibari Scribes' Guild mistress, Barony Marche of Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc (Pittsburgh, PA) > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:52:35 -0500 > From: "Jessica Wilbur" > Subject: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem > > Greetings! > > Has anyone ever had a problem with powdered pigment refusing to > mix with a binder? I was playing with my period pigments for the > first time last night and had no problem with the ultramarine or the > veridian... but couldn't get the alizarin lake to mix. It was the > weirdest thing. I tried with glair, gum arabic and a mixture of both. It > was like trying to mix oil and water. I finally gave up on it, but I'd > really like to know what went wrong and how to fix it. Any advice? > > Thanks! > - --Giuliana Salviati > (formerly Muireann ni Riordain) > =================================================================== > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:48:18 -0800 From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem Yes, there are many pigments that are difficult to mix together with binder (or even plain water) this has to do with the surface tension of the liquid and the effect of the finely ground pigment. Have you ever tried to mix dry cocoa powder with mil or water? It takes some effort. In "period" most mixing was done on a porphyry slab. You can get the same effect by grinding on a piece of smooth marble (or a thick piece of glass that has been lightly sand blasted on one side) with a big piece of agate (about the size of a softball) that has been cut in half and polished on the flat side. Or you can buy a Muller from Daniel Smith or a chemistry supply house. If you cant get any of this fancy stuff, you might also try grinding the pigment and binder in a good mortar and pestle. The ones you can get at the grocery store or the Chinese market are not very good, as they are not ground out very well inside. The best ones are made out of bronze or porcelain. Cystennin, who has been grinding away like mad the last few weeks for his A&S entries. - -----Original Message----- From: Jessica Wilbur [mailto:jessica@pop.net] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:53 AM To: Scribes@castle.org Subject: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem Greetings! Has anyone ever had a problem with powdered pigment refusing to mix with a binder? I was playing with my period pigments for the first time last night and had no problem with the ultramarine or the veridian... but couldn't get the alizarin lake to mix. It was the weirdest thing. I tried with glair, gum arabic and a mixture of both. It was like trying to mix oil and water. I finally gave up on it, but I'd really like to know what went wrong and how to fix it. Any advice? Thanks! - --Giuliana Salviati (formerly Muireann ni Riordain) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:44:05 -0500 From: "Laura Peskett" <2rozakii@attbi.com> Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? I really like to use the W&N gold ink. When I use it, I seal it with Gold Leaf #45 Sealer (made by Houston Art, Inc.) that came with my fake gold leafing kit. Works like a charm! Do you have a problem with the "liquid" turning green in the bottle? When that happens, I just dump out the "liquid" and add fresh distilled water. Hope this was of some help. :-) Tzitzakion BBM, East Kingdom > I know we've had this discussion a few times in the past, but I'm heading out to an art supply store in 10 minutes and will be near a Michael's and AC Moore this weekend up in Connecticut... > > Basically I'm looking for a recommendation for a gold paint. I have Windsor & Newton gouache (which looks coppery), W&N ink (which oxidizes and eventually turns greenish), and have Testor's enamel (which requires an underlay of paint/gesso to prevent the oil from seeping through the paper). > > The local art supply shop doesn't carry Pelican products anymore (I just called) -- perhaps one of the ones in CT might, but if I don't get anything during lunch hour, I'd love to hear any recommendation for a means of using paint instead of the 24 kt. leaf I have, for (extra fine) detail work on a current assignment. > > Thanks! > > --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, "Mercenary Scribe" > An Dubhaigheainn, East > (E.Frank, Long Island, NY) > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:47:40 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? Holbein Pearl Gold is good, also Shmincke gold watercolor or gouache. I have better luck ordering these from Paper and Ink or Dick Blick, but you may get lucky. They are a bit brighter than shell gold(which looks slightly brownish in comparison), but quite nice. The Holbein needs to be mixed with a little water, dried out (in a shell or pallette), then rehydrated for use, or else it tends to be grainy. The Shmincke is nice and smooth. I'm sure there are others, these are the ones I've used. Chiara da Ravenna Stonemarche, EK =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:48:34 -0500 From: "Kara Westfall" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint mixing problem Isn't ox gall supposed to help? Chiara =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:41:51 -0500 From: "Kenrick Burne" Subject: [scribes]: Osmiroid nib This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1BC45.F0838140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, I'm looking for an Osmiriod italic-fine nib from just before the = company stopped production in England. I was hoping that somebody here = might have an extra one I might buy. Thanks, Kenrick Burne, East - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1BC45.F0838140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings,
    I'm looking for an = Osmiriod=20 italic-fine nib from just before the company stopped production in = England. I=20 was hoping that somebody here might have an extra one I might = buy.
 
Thanks,
Kenrick Burne, = East
- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1BC45.F0838140-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:47:25 EST From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Atlantian Scribes need your support - --part1_b4.705726e.29a9138d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings My Lords and Ladies, At the Kingdom Arts and Sciences Festival (March 2nd in Isenfir), there will be a silent auction to benefit the new Kingdom Scribe's Fund which helps to defray some of the cost of materials the Atlantian scribes use to make the beautiful scrolls for you. Please take a few minutes to look over the items and bid on those you like. More items are needed to make this auction a success. If you would like to donate an item (or a service) to the auction, please bring it to the scribe's room at Kingdom A&S Festival (or send it with someone if you are not attending)(If a service, please write up a card with the service and specific details about it). Please include a minimum starting bid requested with each item. Items do not have to be related to scribal things, they can be anything which you think someone else may want, or anything you might want to get out of your house (within reason, of course) that you think someone might want. If you get a chance, please drop me an email at brndalston@aol.com to let me know you are donating something. Thank you so much for your support of the Atlantian Scribal Community. We appreciate it! Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia P.S. Please forward to any other lists I may have missed. Thank you. - --part1_b4.705726e.29a9138d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings My Lords and Ladies,

At the Kingdom Arts and Sciences Festival (March 2nd in Isenfir), there will be a silent auction to benefit the new Kingdom Scribe's Fund which helps to defray some of the cost of materials the Atlantian scribes use to make the beautiful scrolls for you. Please take a few minutes to look over the items and bid on those you like.

More items are needed to make this auction a success. If you would like to donate an item (or a service) to the auction, please bring it to the scribe's room at Kingdom A&S Festival (or send it with someone if you are not attending)(If a service, please write up a card with the service and specific details about it). Please include a minimum starting bid requested with each item. Items do not have to be related to scribal things, they can be anything which you think someone else may want, or anything you might want to get out of your house (within reason, of course) that you think someone might want. If you get a chance, please drop me an email at brndalston@aol.com to let me know you are donating something.

Thank you so much for your support of the Atlantian Scribal Community. We appreciate it!

Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift,
Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia

P.S. Please forward to any other lists I may have missed. Thank you. - --part1_b4.705726e.29a9138d_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:23:53 EST From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Scribal Activities at Kingdom A&S Festival - --part1_14f.96114f6.29a91c19_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings unto the scribes of Atlantia! The Kingdom Arts and Sciences Festival is just around the corner on March 2nd and there will be things for you to do! Scroll display - Bring your best work and show it off, get comments, give comments and leave tokens on those scrolls you like! There will be three categories: beginner, intermediate, and advanced (you decide which category you want to put your scroll in). Bring Kingdom awards, Baronial awards, wedding invitations, etc., anything you want to display that fits in with the scribal arts. Pearls and Laurals - please take a few minutes to look over the scrolls and make comments on them. Leaving tokens always encourages people to try and do more. Thanks for your support. Live Demo - we have space to set up and work on stuff during the day, so bring your art supplies and your current project. If you don't have an assignment and want a new one, contact the Clerk Signet and ask for one. Silent Auction - please bring an item to donate to the silent auction. All proceeds will go to the new Kingdom Scribe Fund. This fund pays a small stipend to scribes who do a peerage scroll when requested by the Crown to offset their supplies. Thanks for your support and I look forward to seeing each of you at the Festival! Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia - --part1_14f.96114f6.29a91c19_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings unto the scribes of Atlantia!

The Kingdom Arts and Sciences Festival is just around the corner on March 2nd and there will be things for you to do!

Scroll display - Bring your best work and show it off, get comments, give comments and leave tokens on those scrolls you like! There will be three categories: beginner, intermediate, and advanced (you decide which category you want to put your scroll in). Bring Kingdom awards, Baronial awards, wedding invitations, etc., anything you want to display that fits in with the scribal arts.

Pearls and Laurals - please take a few minutes to look over the scrolls and make comments on them. Leaving tokens always encourages people to try and do more. Thanks for your support.

Live Demo - we have space to set up and work on stuff during the day, so bring your art supplies and your current project. If you don't have an assignment and want a new one, contact the Clerk Signet and ask for one.

Silent Auction - please bring an item to donate to the silent auction. All proceeds will go to the new Kingdom Scribe Fund. This fund pays a small stipend to scribes who do a peerage scroll when requested by the Crown to offset their supplies.

Thanks for your support and I look forward to seeing each of you at the Festival!
Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift,
Deputy Clerk Signet, Atlantia - --part1_14f.96114f6.29a91c19_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:29:56 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold Paint (again) ? OK... I was able to find Pearl Ex pigment this afternoon at AC Moore in Orange, unfortunately, no Schminke, but I did receive an offer from a fellow scribe to purchase some and bring it to an upcoming event in March here in EK (thank you, Sarra!). In the meantime, I'm going to try mixing the pigment with the W&N gold ink, and separately with the W&N gold gouache. Plus there's still a bottle of gum arabic at home that hasn't been used yet. Thanks everyone. :) Kayleigh =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:58:56 EST From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils - --part1_8b.14442ec0.29aa83e0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/1/2002 5:44:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, HLOriana@aol.com writes: > > Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and 8B (so > soft it smears if you look at it). I'm guessing that at one time either > the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably etch glass with > something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 and more degrees of > softness were added later. Or, the whole system never was symmetrical in > the first place. > > Oriana who loves pencil drawing better than almost anything. > > So, what is an F pencil? I got one in my drawing pencils kit I bought last month for my art class. So far the F seems to give me the darkest value of all of them. There were 11 pencils in the set ranging from 4H to 8B and an F. I am still playing with them to get the affects I want. By the way, I purchased it at Wal-mart for less than $10.00! Brandy - --part1_8b.14442ec0.29aa83e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/1/2002 5:44:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, HLOriana@aol.com writes:



Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and 8B (so soft it smears if you look at it).  I'm guessing that at one time either the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably etch glass with something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 and more degrees of softness were added later.  Or, the whole system never was symmetrical in the first place.

Oriana who loves pencil drawing better than almost anything.



So, what is an F pencil? I got one in my drawing pencils kit I bought last month for my art class. So far the F seems to give me the darkest value of all of them. There were 11 pencils in the set ranging from 4H to 8B and an F. I am still playing with them to get the affects I want. By the way, I purchased it at Wal-mart for less than $10.00!

Brandy - --part1_8b.14442ec0.29aa83e0_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #81 ****************************