From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #73 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, February 3 2002 Volume 07 : Number 073 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils [scribes]: patent gold leaf RE: [scribes]: patent gold leaf [scribes]: Re: Paleography course [scribes]: Estrella Vigil Duke Aaron Graves Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils Re: [scribes]: Re: Paleography course [scribes]: SILVERPOINT??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:18:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils Hardness is H. HB is very soft, H is slightly harder, 2H is the classic #2 pencil, 4H quite hard. You can get mechanical pencil leads in varying hardnesses, but I don't know where. Here at work they stock them for the engineers. I use a lead holder and drafting leads, but that's because I already had them leftover from high school drafting classes. Margaret FitzWilliam On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > I've got to rewrite my notes for teaching my beginning illumination class > since I can't find them. I'd like to include some information on selecting > drawing pencils at the art supply store, but can't for the life of me > remember what the numbers and letters signify. I seem to recall that the > letter indicates softness (B being the softest, with higher letters being > harder) but can't recall the numbers. > > Can one of you artists out there refresh my memory, please? > > Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:43:06 EST From: HLOriana@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils - --part1_17d.301f273.298c73fa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/01/2002 4:20:02 PM Central Standard Time, pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com writes: > Hardness is H. HB is very soft, H is slightly harder, 2H is the classic #2 > pencil, 4H quite hard. Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and 8B (so soft it smears if you look at it). I'm guessing that at one time either the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably etch glass with something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 and more degrees of softness were added later. Or, the whole system never was symmetrical in the first place. Oriana who loves pencil drawing better than almost anything. - --part1_17d.301f273.298c73fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/01/2002 4:20:02 PM Central Standard Time, pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com writes:


Hardness is H. HB is very soft, H is slightly harder, 2H is the classic #2
pencil, 4H quite hard.


Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and 8B (so soft it smears if you look at it).  I'm guessing that at one time either the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably etch glass with something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 and more degrees of softness were added later.  Or, the whole system never was symmetrical in the first place.

Oriana who loves pencil drawing better than almost anything. - --part1_17d.301f273.298c73fa_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:55:40 -0600 From: "N.D. Wederstrandt" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils - --============_-1199518349==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and >8B (so soft it smears if you look at it). I'm guessing that at one >time either the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably >etch glass with something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 >and more degrees of softness were added later. Or, the whole system >never was symmetrical in the first place. You can still buy pencils higher than 4H - I think I have a 6H pencil somewhere. AFter that just get a scoring tool (grin). I recently started clening out my art supplies and found that I have almost a life time supply of drawing pencils. I don't know if anyone mentiond it by regular pencils (#2) are HB -- #3 are H. which seems to suggest if they have #1 they must be 2B. Clare - --============_-1199518349==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils
 
Actually, HB is the midpoint in the range between 4H (very hard) and 8B (so soft it smears if you look at it).  I'm guessing that at one time either the H range went to 8 also, although you could probably etch glass with something that hard, or the B range only went to 4 and more degrees of softness were added later.  Or, the whole system never was symmetrical in the first place.
 
        You can still buy pencils higher than 4H - I think I have a 6H pencil somewhere.  AFter that just get a scoring tool (grin).   I recently started clening out my art supplies and found that I have almost a life time supply of drawing pencils.    I don't know if anyone mentiond it by regular pencils (#2) are HB  -- #3 are H. which seems to suggest if they have #1 they must be 2B.

Clare

- --============_-1199518349==_ma============-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:28:37 -0800 From: Karen Williams Subject: [scribes]: patent gold leaf Do any of you know either an online place or a physical location in Silicon Valley where I can buy patent gold leaf (the kind that transfers so easily)? Thanks, Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 15:46:02 -0800 From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: patent gold leaf You can order it on-line from EasyLeaf. WWW.EasyLeaf.com They have great prices and can over-night it to you. Remember that if you want to deep burnish your gold with multiple layers that you should get higher karat gold, preferably 24kt. It is only about $7 a book more expensive. In my experience 22kt gold can be tough to burnish as it doesn't like to anneal to itself as well as 23.75 or 24kt gold. Instead it curls and "peels" away from the layer of gold beneath it. This shouldn't surprise anyone because at 2/24ths silver content, it is close to 10% silver which is not malleable at all and will work harden much quicker than the gold will. - -----Original Message----- From: Karen Williams [mailto:branwen@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:29 PM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: [scribes]: patent gold leaf Do any of you know either an online place or a physical location in Silicon Valley where I can buy patent gold leaf (the kind that transfers so easily)? Thanks, Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:52:40 -0500 From: Aidan Grey Subject: [scribes]: Re: Paleography course Hi all, I've been lurking on the list for a couple of months now, but decided I should introduce myself. Aodán MacAirt (mundanely Aidan Grey), in Carolingia. I'm in grad school studying Celtic Lang and Lit, but this term I'm also taking a class on Paleography. I mention it just in case there are unanswered questions out there. I'll collect them and ask my professor. This of course doesn't guarantee an answer, just an attempt. Aodán MacAirt Carolingia, East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 18:30:03 -0700 From: "Eva Mehlhose" Subject: [scribes]: Estrella Vigil Duke Aaron Graves Greetings all! Please do join Duke Aaron Graves at Estrella War on Thursday night, February 14th at the Barony of SunDragon Pavilion for His vigil celebrating His recent elevation to the right noble Order of the Laurel. The Vigil is open to any and all, commencing after sundown approx. 7 to 7.30pm that evening. Duke Aaron is known to a great many folk for a great many deeds and skills. Please share your thoughts and well wishes with Him on this, His special night of war. My personal gratitude to Baron Dmitri and Baroness Tatiana for graciously allowing the use of their pavilion for this event and the SunDragon Cooks and Assassins Guild for hosting the evenings affairs. It is my great honor and privilege to assist with this celebration. Please contact me offlist with any questions or suggestions. Lady Alyssandra von Drachenskralle aka Alex the scribe Barony of SunDragon alexscribe@worldnet.att.net =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 22:09:00 -0800 From: Sheryl Knowles Subject: Re: [scribes]: Drawing pencils At 01:55 PM 2/1/02 -0800, Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: >I've got to rewrite my notes for teaching my beginning illumination class >since I can't find them. I'd like to include some information on selecting >drawing pencils at the art supply store, but can't for the life of me >remember what the numbers and letters signify. I seem to recall that the >letter indicates softness (B being the softest, with higher letters being >harder) but can't recall the numbers. > >Can one of you artists out there refresh my memory, please? > >Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid Derwent sells three different boxed sets of 12 pencils which overlap in hardness; they designate the groupings as soft, medium, and hard. Hard includes in order (softest to hardest): B, HB, F, H, 2H, 3H, 4H, 5H, 6H, 7H, 8H, 9H Medium: 6B, 5B, 4B, 3B, 2B, B, HB, F, H, 2H, 3H, 4H Soft: 9B, 8B, 7B, 6B, 5B, 4B, 3B, 2B, B, HB, F, H I find that this actually approximates well different drawing needs. Soft creates carbon-stick effects (as someone else said: "smudges when you look at it" :-), Medium meets the needs of most artists up and down the scale, Hard approximates some of the silver-point work I do. When I have a student who is truly interested in the art of drawing, I usually assign him/her the "chore" of drawing the classic "lit sphere" a half-dozen or more times. Each different drawing is done with a different one of the above pencils, particularly a sampling of the very soft and very hard (which many artists haven't much opportunity to explore.) It's a practical lesson in technique as well ; for instance,"smudge" is definitely interesting at the soft end, and hatching is a most useable technique at the hard end. We then work over a wide range of papers from the ultra smooth LetraMax 2000, thru the Arches, down to heavy-tooth watercolour paper. Making samplers of both pencil and paper gives students a hands-on appreciation of how the tool and the surface work (or fight) together. Your impression of the quality of Derwent's pencils will be, of course, your own. But I appreciate that -- at least around here in the San Francisco south bay -- it makes the entire range easily available at art (University Arts, Aaron Bros) and craft (Michaels) stores. Just my two pence. :-) In service, ---Teleri Tawel =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:41:10 -0500 From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Paleography course Greetings-- > I've been lurking on the list for a couple of months now, but decided I >should introduce myself. Aodán MacAirt (mundanely Aidan Grey), in >Carolingia. I'm in grad school studying Celtic Lang and Lit, but this term >I'm also taking a class on Paleography. I mention it just in case there are >unanswered questions out there. I'll collect them and ask my professor. >This of course doesn't guarantee an answer, just an attempt. Woohoo, another palaeography person! I went through the medieval palaeography class at the University of Toronto about seven years ago, and it's actually the thing that sparked my interest in calligraphy--I wanted to *do* the scripts I had spent so much time learning about and learning how to decipher. I teach intro classes on palaeography for scribes in the SCA from time to time, and have always found there's a great deal of interest out there. Nicolaa =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:57:45 +1030 From: Jon Grotto Subject: [scribes]: SILVERPOINT??? Greeting fellow scribes, I believe this has been discussed before, but I'd like to ask about the best ways to do monochromic work on a scroll. I am doing an original, and have as a source a scroll done only in a greyish colour, but extensive shading etc was used to create the picture, which was a Romanesque arch (sorry about the poor description). I could easily achieve the same effect using lead pencil - but that isn't the best for long lasting colour! It was suggested to me that "silverpoint" could have been employed in the scroll. What is it, and could I conceivably use it on parchmentine or watercolour paper? If not, how else could I achieve the same effect? Any suggestions would be most appreciated. In Service, Cainnear na Ruad. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #73 ****************************