From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #59 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, January 6 2002 Volume 07 : Number 059 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Medieval Hunting Scenes Re: [scribes]: Medieval Hunting Scenes [scribes]: "Knotwork" and Carolingian [none] [scribes]: Question [scribes]: Apologies Re: [scribes]: Question Re: [scribes]: Question Re: [scribes]: 2 questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:50:00 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medieval Hunting Scenes >>the only things you would have to change from modern is the hunting arms and the clothing(&tack) & breed of dog so any modern source would work running and pointing dogs are ageless. add a horse and perhaps the deer or fox and other animals running about( hiding behind a capital ?etc?) you are all over it << Running and pointing dogs are ageless, yes, but not the way they were drawn. If you copy a real dog from a modern book, the positioning of the legs will be incorrect for a "medieval" illumination. Take a good look at any hunting scenes from any time period up to about the late Victorian age (when photography was invented) and you'll find that the way they are drawn is with both the rear legs together, and the front legs together (forming a sort of elongated reverse U in the formation of legs and body). This is essentially the leg formation on these animals that they use when *leaping* over things - but that's not the way they run. When dogs and horses run, they actually alternate front/back legs so that one foot is almost always on the ground and they alternate sides - so you'd have a dog moving the front left leg and right rear leg, then the right front leg and left rear leg. You can imitate this movement naturally if you get down on your hands and knees and move across the floor - you'll instinctively move alternating limbs. This is why the sound of a horse's gallop is 4 part - if they moved the way they do in manuscripts, it would be 2 part (because both the front legs would come down at the same time, as would the rear). Now try moving on the floor the way they show in medieval illuminations, and you'll see the problem ;-) In point of fact, the way animals were drawn moving in paintings up to modern times was incorrect because they positioned the legs wrong. Probably because it's almost impossible to see how a horse's or dog's legs are moving while they're running because they move so fast, and you can only get a good look when they leap over something (and then the legs are positioned differently). The only exception to this LF/RR and RF/LR movement of the legs is for cats (all of them large and small) and giraffes (I think there might be one more but don't remember what it is - maybe llamas). Those particular animals move both legs on one side of their body at the same time (although they always have one foot on the ground also). So Fluffy is actually moving left front, left rear, right front, right rear. But I think if you watch a cat run, you'll also see that classic "legs together" movement of the medieval manuscripts, or something that looks a lot closer to it than a dog. Tetchubah (former veterinary major and someone who watches way too many nature shows on PBS) Cry "Bother" and let loose the Poohs of war. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:17:09 -0800 From: "Teresa McCartney" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medieval Hunting Scenes > publish a list of where I could find resources for medieval hunting scenes > (esp ones which include both archery and falconry). I know Gaston Phoebus' > book is one of the ones discussed previously, but I'm kind of strapped for > time and can't do something quite so elaborate. There are a few very nice scenes in the marginalia of Catherine of Cleves that are specific to archery and to falconry, as well as generic hunting. The borders in Catherine of Cleves are in general not so elaborate as miniatures, but with some nice elements. Teresa le Marchant West Teresa McCartney Santa Clara, CA =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:49:31 -1000 From: "Christine Robertson" Subject: [scribes]: "Knotwork" and Carolingian If I recall correctly, Carolingian miniscule would be compatible with the gold interlace of the School of Reichenau, around 1000 (I'm at work and my books are at home, so I can't check dates etc). This is rather like white vine, but the "vines" are gold, and the interstices are filled with a very orange red, probably minium, a quite mauve-ish blue (colour of jacaranda flowers), and a moderately pale yellowish green. No white dots. The red is used to outline the gold, rather than the black we are all more familiar with. It's a very beautiful style, and one I've always meant to have a go at. Searching for Reichenau should get you examples. - --Yseult Chris Robertson Yseult de Lacy, OL Wentworth Falls Barony of Rowany NSW Australia Lochac =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:10:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jeanne Steckling Subject: [none] http://www.matazone.co.uk/kitty1.html Hey guys -- sorry, I don't know how to make a link. Anyone? I don't usually send this garbage on but this is sick and twisted enough that most of you will like it. Animations terrible, but the story is great! Love, Jeanne ===== Everyone has a turn at being God: that is God’s plan and helps explain why God’s ways are mysterious…. Your mother was God once, so were your father and your dentist and your grocer. Jack Anderson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:32:02 -0800 From: "Diane Karpinski" Subject: [scribes]: Question Hi, I need to make a painted tapestry and I have been told that there is a medium you can add to your acrylic paints to prevent them from hardening and cracking. Does anyone know what this is called and where I can get it. I'm in An Tir if that helps with ideas of where to purchase this. Thanks for all your help. AElfwynn _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:27:29 EST From: MESTECKLING@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Apologies I send an unrelated to the list by mistake - I must have hit the all button. I'm sorry if that drove anyone crazy. Jeanne =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:39:27 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Question Look with the bottles of acrylic paint for general crafting. It's called "textile" or "fabric" medium (depends on the brand you buy). You can get it just about anywhere that carries craft supplies - Jo-Ann Fabric, Michaels and occasionally Wal-Mart. It's a flexible extender that will keep the acrylic paint from cracking. I use it in equal parts unless I want to do single color shading then I add more textile medium. Make sure you work the paint into the fabric. When it is completely dry, heat set it in the dryer or with an iron. I've used it extensively on garb and banners, but am looking forward to starting some tapestries for my pavilion and possibly a painted tapestry style scroll in the near future. I'm not sure what binders they used in period to do this. I've been able to find few specifics about the art of painting banners and tapestries. When the trend in illumination went from stiff gothic to more humanistic styles, some illuminators didn't have the skill to keep up. They became professionals at painting heraldry instead of the more challenging figures and landscapes. They still made a fair living painting on personal possessions, banners and even on scrolls. Imagine the boredom of painting only heraldry day in and day out - especially if it was a major manuscript for a wealthy patron. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:26:13 -0800 (PST) From: Suzanne Powell Subject: Re: [scribes]: Question Greetings! Before moving to Bjornsborg (last month), I helped run Stargate's Tapestry Painting guild. We used latex house paint (no kidding!) on canvas. We scrounged through the "oops" collection of paint at the hardware stores (you know, the stuff that people thought would match, but didn't) and got the paint very cheaply. In the middle of chores so I've got to end this quickly, but if you need more information, please feel free to contact me. - -- Suzanne - --- Diane Karpinski wrote: > Hi, > I need to make a painted tapestry and I have been told that there is a > medium you can add to your acrylic paints to prevent them from hardening and > cracking. Does anyone know what this is called and where I can get it. I'm > in An Tir if that helps with ideas of where to purchase this. > > Thanks for all your help. > > AElfwynn > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > ===== HL Suzanne de la Ferté Barony of Bjornsborg, Kingdom of Ansteorra - ------------------------------------------------------------ Suzanne C. Powell San Antonio, Texas suzanne_powell@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:39:47 -0500 From: wyverns Subject: Re: [scribes]: 2 questions By no means a rule, but I have noticed somewhat of a trend regarding whether words are carried onto the next line or not: If the scribes don't bother with spacing between words, they generally don't bother stopping the text at the end of a word, either, they continue with the next word until the end of the line, and then finish the word on the next line. (I've heard speculation that sometimes this is because the copiest couldn't actually read the latin either to know where words ended, but I don't know on what that conclusion is based) In some cases, where the ending of lines seems less rigid, it is because they make an exception to the rule in those cases where there is only space for one or two letters of a long or significant word. In hands where words (or at least more important words and nouns) are more clearly dilineated, the text seems to generally end on the end of a word, or a significant part of a long word, with or without some sort of hyphen equivelent. In my observation, line filler art is most often used if a sentence or paragraph ends before the end of the line - it is not much used in the middle of sentences, if only because the gap at the end of a line (which would only fit a few letters of the next word) is usually so small as not to bother. They do in some hands add a flourish at the end of the last word to fill the space a bit, or they may allow the illumination to slide into the space just a bit (if it isn't a flat bar), to make the space less obvious. Enid Calontir =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #59 ****************************