From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #52 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, December 19 2001 Volume 07 : Number 052 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Murthly Hours question RE: [scribes]: Murthly Hours question [scribes]: Gold stamping [scribes]: Re: Gold stamping [scribes]: List Q [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Re: [scribes]: Gold stamping Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope [scribes]: Yippee!!! Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! Fwd: Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:01:20 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Murthly Hours question > You can indeed use the same stamping tools to indent gold colored > gouache on paper or flat gilding. The paper can be nice thick bristol or > cheap thin calligraphy paper. It doesn't matter. The trick is to have a > piece of shirt card type cardboard underneath (or some other semi > compressible but stiff surface. The give of the cardboard allows the > paper to indent. It is a neat trick on SCA scrolls, and will look really > good, but I have no clue whether it was done in period or not. Oh, how interesting! Could you perhaps do this as well if you layer something like Windsor and Newton Gold ink? One of the things I do is to paint on several layers of gold ink, and then after it dries, I burnish it by using a burnishing stone on glassine paper, the idea here being to try to smooth out the graininess of the W&N gold ink. I tried this purely as an experiment earlier in the year on a scroll I did for the Regional and Kingdom A&S Faires, and it really worked nicely! So you are saying, then, that I might be able to do stamping on this? Oh, RanthulfR, you've got me sooooooooooooooooooo intrigued! So where do I find stamping tools? I'd like to do a few experiments and see how this works!! Thanks for that tip! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:39:11 -0800 From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Murthly Hours question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1872A.1E77CED6" - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1872A.1E77CED6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have done some stamping myself, it is really easy. =20 I used the tip of my silver stylus, which is about 1mm in diameter and polished smooth to inscribe my lines. I also used this same tool to stamp out the three-dot pattern, like in white-vine. =20 Also, I found that it is much easier to inscribe lines through glassine, due to the lubrication effect of the glassine. I also figured out that if you trace out your design onto the glassine in advance, the resulting design on the gold looks so much nicer. :-) =20 As per other sort of "stamps", I have thought about using jewelers stamps.... =20 Ken Stoner =20 Stress, Performance and Scale - -----Original Message----- From: Floriligeum@aol.com [mailto:Floriligeum@aol.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:11 PM To: randyaf@provide.net; bastetkat@hotmail.com Cc: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Murthly Hours question =20 I have never seen stamped gilding. I am now intrigued... What do you use to stamp gilded (or painted gold gouache) areas?=20 Yours in service,=20 Sarra the Lymner=20 Caer Adamant (DE), East Kingdom=20 MKA Sarah Dressler=20 Sarra's Florilegium =20 www.sarrasflorilegium.knownworldweb.com=20 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1872A.1E77CED6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have done some = stamping myself, it is really easy.

 

I used the tip of my silver stylus, = which is about 1mm in diameter and polished smooth to inscribe my lines. I = also used this same tool to stamp out the three-dot pattern, like in = white-vine.

 

Also, I found that it is much = easier to inscribe lines through glassine, due to the lubrication effect of the glassine. I = also figured out that if you trace out your design onto the glassine in = advance, the resulting design on the gold looks so much nicer. <= span style=3D'mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings'>J<= /span>

 

As per other sort of = “stamps”, I have thought about using jewelers = stamps….

 

Ken = Stoner

Stress, Performance and Scale

-----Original = Message-----
From: Floriligeum@aol.com [mailto:Floriligeum@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December = 16, 2001 5:11 PM
To: randyaf@provide.net; bastetkat@hotmail.com
Cc: = scribes@castle.org
Subject: Re: [scribes]: = Murthly Hours question

 

I have never seen stamped gilding.  I am now intrigued... = What do you use to stamp gilded (or painted gold gouache) areas?


Yours in service,

Sarra the Lymner

Caer Adamant (DE), East Kingdom
MKA Sarah Dressler
Sarra's = Florilegium
www.sarrasflorilegium.knownworldweb.com =

=00 - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1872A.1E77CED6-- - --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:44:52 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: [scribes]: Gold stamping I think the Gabriel Guild was selling stamps for incising gold leaf when I was at Pennsic, although it might have been the Limner's Guild that was selling these. I really don't remember - just remember talking to the merchant about it. I know someone who uses leather stamps for stamping on raised gold. No reason it wouldn't work on flat gold too using Ranthulfr's technique, I suspect. But I imagine the number of leather stamps that will actually work on gold is probably limited - I think I'd stick to the sharper ones myself. Tetchubah =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:42:18 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Gold stamping I've never had any luck tooling on flat gold ... I have been able to emboss through the gold and into the paper to get a tooled design. There was a really good article all about tooling on gold in "Observations on the Trecento and Early Quattrocento Workshop" by Mojmir S. Frinta _The Artist's Workshop_ Distributed by the University Press of New England, 1993 ISBN 089468-190-7 I use a variety of items for tooling on gold. Small leather stamps, under 1/4 inch, are wonderful. (In period, the leather stamps and gold stamps were made the same way) Use simple stamps and build up intricate designs. There is a tiny football shaped stamp that works well to make a laurel wreath. Diaper patterns tooled on top of gold are too cool :-) Some other tools I find useful: a .5 mechanical pencil point (with the lead retracted) decorative rivets shank style buttons large ball point needles (for drawing designs as well as making plain dots - you can also bundle 6 or 7 of these needles together and make little flowers) More books that have lots of gold tooling in the illuminations :-) ...... Western European Illuminated Manuscripts: of the 8th to the 16th Centuries, Tamara Voronova & Andrei Sterligov, Parkstone Press, 1996. Painting and Illumination in Early Renaissance Florence 1300 - 1450 from the Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1994. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:39:05 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: List Q Here's a question. I just finished building my reproduction writing slope and scribe's desk and want to show a picture of it. Does this list allow JPG images on it? If so, how big? If not, I'll just send a URL. RanthulfR - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:38:27 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Hi everybody, I finally had a chance to build that reproduction writing slope and desk that I've been itching to get to for several years now. It is based on the reproduction in the Museum of London that I photographed and put on my website: RandyAsplund.com along with some drawings. It is slightly modified from the museum sample. I lowered the front rail, widened the side ports, used lathe turned finials instead of carved trefoils, and joined the top piece to make a narrow flat edge on the top of the slope. All of these modifications are justifiable in medieval context. The desk and slope are both made from stained red oak. There is a drawer in the desk, and there will be straps nailed to the side to hold two water horns as soon as I have time to carve them. You can see them at the following URLs: www.provide.net/~randyaf/DeskFront.jpg www.provide.net/~randyaf/DeskBack.jpg RanthulfR - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:46:17 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold stamping I use any blunt, rounded point that is of a reasonable diameter. There is a Tandy punch that does six dot pattern, but unfortunately you'll probably have to seek or make anything more complex, like trefoils. I usually draw the trefoils with that same tip. I also make long lines at a SHALLOW drawn angle along a straight edge. RanthulfR Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > > I think the Gabriel Guild was selling stamps for incising gold leaf when I > was at Pennsic, although it might have been the Limner's Guild that was > selling these. I really don't remember - just remember talking to the > merchant about it. > > I know someone who uses leather stamps for stamping on raised gold. No > reason it wouldn't work on flat gold too using Ranthulfr's technique, I > suspect. But I imagine the number of leather stamps that will actually > work on gold is probably limited - I think I'd stick to the sharper ones > myself. > > Tetchubah > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:30:23 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope RanthulfR: You make my paltry efforts look shabby... well done!! Where did you find red oak that wide?? Did you have to glue pieces together to get it that wide?? Inquiring minds want to know. Tres Cool, though. KHvS =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:09:32 -0800 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Randy Asplund wrote: > > I finally had a chance to build that reproduction writing slope and > desk that I've been itching to get to for several years now. OK, I'm drooling with jealousy. Branwen ferch Emrys - -- Karen Williams branwen@ix.netcom.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:16:01 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope WOW! Randy, that is absolutely beautiful. Mind if I come over to your house with my Invisibilty Cloak and walk out with it? Any chance we can get you to post some blueprints for it so we can make copies?? Admiringly, Tetchubah =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:13:20 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribe Desk & Slope Thanks Tetchubah. The page where you can find that information is: http://randyasplund.com/browse/scribepg/scritool.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:49:09 EST From: SWRDBABE@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Yippee!!! Okay I'm really really excited. My wonderful other half has decided to wisk me away to New York from Saturday the 29th through to New Year's day. We aren't doing the Time Square thing but instead seeing some friends and I get to go to the Metropolitan and the Cloisters!!! I can wait! All right I'm going to have to make sure I pack my sketchbook and note pads just so I can enjoy the arms&armor, costume&clothing and then my favorite area is going to be the Calligraphy & Illumination. I have got the greatest guy on earth! Daniela =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:26:17 -0800 (PST) From: Hrefna in heppna Subject: Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! Congrats! You will love it. My love did something similar over Thanksgiving. Here are a few suggestions: 1. 1600 speed film and a light meter and indespensable. You can take pictures of everything. Be careful about using a flash though. In some places it's disallowed. 2. The Cloisters has its manuscripts down in the basement. Don't rush down because you will miss all the cool stuff on the way. 3. If you are into armor, stop in the effagy room in the Cloisters. You can see the buckles carved into the stone. 4. There aren't many (<12) manuscripts out in the Medival European section of the Met but look for them. The Tables of the Antichirst is rather... interesting. 5. Go up to the Islamic/Arabic art section. There were a couple score of manuscripts on display there over Thanksgiving. Go through that entire exhibit before taking any pictures though. 6. Most of the manuscript books at the Cloisters are at the Met too but the selections are not identical. Set aside a large budget for books. Have fun! Hrefna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:27:11 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! If you have a camera that will still take good pictures without a flash, they will (at least they used to) allow you at least to use it in the Cloisters. I have some really lovely shots of nifty stuff. Sadly, when I was there, I recall seeing only one or two actual manuscripts... but lots and lots of other goodies to see and drool over!! Have a great time. I envy you. I live way too far away from that area now to visit . KHvS - ----- Original Message ----- > Okay I'm really really excited. My wonderful other half has decided to wisk > me away to New York from Saturday the 29th through to New Year's day. We > aren't doing the Time Square thing but instead seeing some friends and I get > to go to the Metropolitan and the Cloisters!!! I can wait! All right I'm > going to have to make sure I pack my sketchbook and note pads just so I can > enjoy the arms&armor, costume&clothing and then my favorite area is going to > be the Calligraphy & Illumination. I have got the greatest guy on earth! > > Daniela =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:44:05 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Fwd: Re: [scribes]: Yippee!!! - --=====================_74187475==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed My apologies to you, Meisterina for your recieving this twice. - D >I was just at the National Gallery and they were fine with my taking >pictures of portraits sans flash. Be sure to ask upon entering the >museum, as well as the room - separate guards like to be informed that you >were told it was okay. > >SMiles, >Despina > >At 06:27 PM 12/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>If you have a camera that will still take good pictures without a flash, they >>will (at least they used to) allow you at least to use it in the Cloisters. >>----- Original Message ----- >>We >> > aren't doing the Time Square thing but instead seeing some friends and >> I get >> > to go to the Metropolitan and the Cloisters!!! - --=====================_74187475==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" My apologies to you, Meisterina for your recieving this twice. - D

I was just at the National Gallery and they were fine with my taking pictures of portraits sans flash.  Be sure to ask upon entering the museum, as well as the room - separate guards like to be informed that you were told it was okay.

SMiles,
Despina

At 06:27 PM 12/18/2001 -0500, you wrote:
If you have a camera that will still take good pictures without a flash, they
will (at least they used to) allow you at least to use it in the Cloisters.
- ----- Original Message -----
We
> aren't doing the Time Square thing but instead seeing some friends and I get
> to go to the Metropolitan and the Cloisters!!!
- --=====================_74187475==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #52 ****************************