From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #12 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, September 25 2001 Volume 07 : Number 012 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: e-publishing and Arthurian Heraldry Re: [scribes]: e-publishing and Arthurian Heraldry Re: [scribes]: Erasers Death Grips (was Re: [scribes]: new tools) Re: [scribes]: Erasers [scribes]: lefties Re: [scribes]: Erasers [scribes]: teaching gold leaf Re: [scribes]: Erasers Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf Re: [scribes]: Pens & Toys [scribes]: Re:teaching gold leaf Re: [scribes]: Pens & Toys [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question Re: [scribes]: lefties Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf Re: [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question Re: [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:35:14 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: e-publishing and Arthurian Heraldry In a message dated 9/24/01 9:07:10 AM, jcash@indiana.edu writes: << couldn't the SCA get a list of these SCA-produced publications together, reprint them through the TI office, and put together a package for one of the electronic book-sellers to offer? >> Wonderful idea! But "Fabulous Heraldry", at least, is not an SCA-produced publication. It is a self-published book of research by Alfgar the Sententious, whose expected/ intended audience is the SCA (specifically heralds). Alfgar may not object to having his works republished by someone else, but there are still ownership, copyright, and royalty issues to be worked. The same is true of other SCA-audience publications done by private individuals (such as my "Lymner's Roll" or Bruce Draconarius's "Pic-Dic" ). Some things I write I am willing to give away for the thrill of seeing it hit print (such as the Compleat Anachronists I have done / am in the process of doing), and some things I prefer to do with some hope of monetary reimbursement (like the Lymner's Roll and the upcoming Sweetbags book). On the other hand, I think you have the beginnings of several good ideas there, such as: - how does one get publicly offered publications like "Compleat Anachronist" available through Amazon.com? I know some self-published ventures do show up, but are they through the efforts of the author? agent? publisher? audience demand? That I don't know. Once that is answered, should we indeed ask the corporation to go that route? It would probably cost more through Amazon (not less), since the SCA publishes on a very thin margin, and sometimes in the red, unlike actual book publishers, who can provide more lee-way for discounts. - Could "Fabulous Heraldry" be reprinted through Compleat Anachronist? This means with appropriate permissions, of course. Hmm -- I intend to write the current CA editor about a pending manuscript, anyway -- I'll include these questions, and see if the corporation can help us. Note that the lead time needed by either of these would not help Corinna in her search for Arthurian Heraldry. Corinna, I would suggest you contact "Free Trumpet Press West" and see if they have any copies of "Fabulous Heraldry" for sale, or know anyone who does. You should be able to find a website for them through www.sca.org, then go to Heraldry, and then just follow your nose (I'm not sure exactly where it is, but I know I've gotten to their page that way, and it was fairly obvious how to do so) And to bring this back to a specifically scribal topic -- How about applying these investigations to having some of the Kingdom scribal handbooks available through Amazon.com and their ilk, as well? Eowyn Amberdrake "Ancora Imparo" __ "I am still learning" =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:47:35 -0600 From: Catie Helm-Clark Subject: Re: [scribes]: e-publishing and Arthurian Heraldry EowynA@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/01 9:07:10 AM, jcash@indiana.edu writes: > << couldn't the SCA get a list of these SCA-produced publications together, > reprint them through the TI office, and put together a package for one of the > electronic book-sellers to offer? >> > Wonderful idea! But "Fabulous Heraldry", at least, is not an SCA-produced > publication. It is a self-published book of research by Alfgar the > Sententious, whose expected/ intended audience is the SCA (specifically an interesting topic to come up now, at least for me. I have recently set up my own server with its own IP for the purpose of setting up a site for not-for-profit ebooks (like SCA related stuff) and also possibly for low-cost ebooks for historical reinactment/re-creation purposes, and have been doing the basic footwork for business licenses and such in the last couple of weeks. I hadn't had a chance to hit up folks yet for interest. The not-for-profit ebooks could launch immediately actually - it would take me a few days (that's all) to put that all on line. I wasn't considering going on line for business purposes until I had a business plan done - and that will take several more weeks since I have a "day job" so to say. If people had non-for-profit projects or previous publications like past CAs they wrote, my site is available (given that I'd like to retain reasonable content control and right of refusal - after all, there are some CAs, for example, that I wouldn't want to ever see resurface due to lack of scholarly integrity...and as a full time academic researcher, I think I'm qualified to made such decisions and have enough qualified folks [eg, Charles Steward O'Connor] to solicit for opinions where I might have doubts) just a thought - and a teaser... ttfn, Therasia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:56:46 EDT From: KATAKIRA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasers In a message dated Fri, 21 Sep 2001 7:38:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Randy Asplund writes: But, to each his own. We all like what we like, eh? > > RanthulfR Speaking of what one likes, in the eraser and pencil arena: Has anyone found the Pentel Dr. Grip pencils? They are fab-u-lous! The pencil has a comfy fat cushy thing just the right distance (for me) above the point, and one can select any hardness of lead, so long as it's .5mm lead. Picked mine up at Office Max. (They're usually near the gel pens, which are also handy for field scrolls, in my opinion...) The pens are cool too, and refillable. And one's coworkers will continually try to snatch it off one's desk. Katarina Peregrine Gwyntarian, Middle =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:04:45 -0600 From: Catie Helm-Clark Subject: Death Grips (was Re: [scribes]: new tools) > A "death grip" and a light touch are not mutually exclusive. I deveoped a > heavy grip when I had carpal tunnel syndrome and couldn't feel the pen, but I > still had a light enough touch on the paper to do pressurized and manipulated > techniques. I'm still working at a lighter grip. It should be loose enough > for someone to take the pen from you without resistance. Try squeezing a > small rubber ball, grip exerciser or even a wad of tissue in the other hand. I know this might sound like heresy, but I can do calligraphy perfectly well with a death grip, and have formed an opinion after years of thought on the subject, that in some cases, death grips shouldn't be programmed out of certain calligraphy students in some very specific cases. You see, it has to do with how people learn and write. Most people are right handed and write with a "normal" pen position. These people usually have no problem learning "proper" pen positions for calligrpahy successfully given two things: 1) the prerequisite: they write mostly using their fingers 2) the learning process: they can actually follow the directions in good learning-to-callig classes and/or books, and callig with a "vertical" hand position on an inclined surface (it is possible to learn on a flat surface, but the natural tendancy to rotate away from the vertical hand position and back to the "normal" slanted everyday writing position is very difficult for a beginner to resist - and this can become a barrier to early success at calligraphy) Now there's most everyone else: the left handers, the learning disabilities and/or those with inverted hand positions - people in these categories tend to write with wrist motions and very little finger motions. A "finger writer" ends up with a looser grip because a death grip won't work at all well - the hand tires out too fast. A "wrist writer" ends up with a tight grip on the pen, however, while writing, because a loose grip results in losing hold of the pen. The wrist writer therefore naturally, without even thinking about it, develops a "clamp" grip on the pen to brace it while the wrist and elbow provide the fine control needed to write. So right-handed loose-grip finger writers are naturals for learning calligrpahy the way it's traditionally taught. And wrist writers with natural "death-grips" need to be taught another way ( YMMV) My approach is to find out first how a student writes and then to 1) teach them the usual way, 2) determine if they have a bad case of stress, and are a finger writer suffering from death grip for stress-related reasons, and them get them to relax and teach them the usual way, or 3) determine they are really wrist writers (which is really not that common at all) and show them how to do vertical calligraphed letters without changing their natural hand position, using some simple tricks to teach their eyes how to make vertical letters on paper which remains slanted (one leftie I taught ended up calligraphing upside down - and was a bettter calligrapher after one evening of practicing than I will ever be in my life, #@$%&#! and furthermore, grumblehumph - damn talented people who aren't me!!! ;-) I've never seen anything on this, to be truthful. I've formed this opinion by watching and observing my own efforts on trying to teach others how to calligraph. I've made my own little class on this called "calligraphy for the fumble-fingered." This all gelled in my brain about two years ago or so, but it seems to work. It's based a lot on what I've learned about teaching learning disabled people how to write. You see, I'm one of those learning disabled people and it took me more than a decade of trying (I'm VERY stubborn) before I was able to calligraph a passable hand - but I had problems learning how to write since I was a kid (I didn't really achieve usable handwriting until I was 12 - and that was after daily remedial writing classes for vastly too long - I got to do writing class instead of afternoon recess - a serious bummer, if you ask me...) Doing calligraphy is closer to doing art than doing writing - it has to do with how your perception works, which is what a lot of "talent" is in art, coupled with good coordination. It has to do with how you think and see, ie how your brain is hard-wired. Now you can teach the perception bits - teachers learn how to do this in teacher training - that's what a lot of that "learning style stuff" is about. If you know what I'm talking about, then you can probably explain it better than I can. My teacher training was the summer I spent going through UCDavis's TA training courses (required for all TA's at Davis) but real teachers spend years in school plus student teaching time learning and applying this stuff - so I'll have to differ to real teaching types like Graidhne for the proper verbage. So it works like this: people who write funny, ie lefties, incurable death grips, inverted hand-position people (usually learning diabled, but not always), can all learn to calligraph if they have some modicum of "art perception" (seeing the shape, shade, color mix, etc, as their own things, instead of stopping at seeing the whole - a teachable visual-processing skill). The first trick is to let their visual processor and their hand-as-it-has-always-worked-before work together to find their own way to manipulate the pen into making passable letter forms. This is both easy and hard. It consists of giving the student permission to write the way they always write, only with a different style of pen. If the student "gets it" then the result is glorious. It was that way for me, with the poor gal who volunteered to try to teach me how to calligraph when I moved to the West. One day, after another frustrating try at calligraphing the normal way, she suggested I try calligraphing the way I normally write - which is with an inverted hand position basically holding the pen upside-down (the nib points towards me - the pen-body points away) with the way I usually slant my paper (almost 90 degrees). In five minutes, I was doing the best letter forms of my life. All it tooks was playing with the angle of the paper so I could establish proper nib angle. The first step, which is the crucial step, sometimes doesn't work, because: a) the student has a hard time accepting the concept of "permission to find their own way" - which is either a self-confidence problem or an artifact, I think, of regimented teaching styles that were more common when I was a kid 30 years ago and before b) they are a "manual" learner and do well with a step-by-step hands-on technique-based teaching method - which this is not (I have problems teaching this style of learner overall) c) they are a normal hand-position finger-writer with an undiagnosed case of permanent or temporary stress d) they have insufficient "artistic visual processing skill" e) some mix of a, b and d combined f) reasons that are beyond me (if I can't get through to a person in an hour, I probably won't get through to them at all - excluding a lack of visual processing skill, which takes 15 minutes to ascertain, and anywhere from a week to a year to "fix" depending on student motivation) So calligraphy for the fumble fingered really breaks down into: 1) give them permission to write they way they always write 2) help the student find the right mix of nib angle and paper slant (paper slant should be the only thing that gets played with in any big way). Get used to the idea that this means some people may end up calligraphing upside down or sideways - if their visual processor and hand are working together, then with a little practice, this will become "normal" to them though it may make your own brain hurt. 3) teach them how to make ascenders and descenders that stay vertical once the paper is straightened up (there's a standard bag of tricks - use gridded paper or draw a grid; sketch the letters out beforehand and then "straighten" the ascenders and descenders as a visual guide before taking out the calligraphy pen, make a raised straight edge and use it with your pen to teach your hand what "vertical" is on a slanted piece of paper - there's a few others - different ones work with different students) 4) never teach using a really regimented hand like a quadratus or even a simple hand like the early gothic out of Drogin - but teach a simple secretary hand where small deviations in letter forms do not spell instant failure. I teach an anglo-normal secretary hand (someone nag me to web my exemplar for this hand) which ends up being as personal as handwriting, because that's what it really is, and one's personal "version" of it gets a fumble-fingered up and rolling as a calligrapher with a correct-looking hand without a lot of frustration on the part of the student. Explaining this to the student is essential. It's really easy convincing a student they can do a period secretary hand. ANYBODY can learn a good period secretary hand - even me! 5) remember that any true death-grip wrist-writer can write smaller better than they will ever write large, and any loose-grip finger-writer will write larger more easily than they will ever write small - so let the two different style of writers go big or small as their natural inclinations take them. So it's a useful thing to show them how to "size" a hand to their nib size, how to pick a nib size comfortable for how big or small they want to write, and to design and size scrolls around their natural comfortable letter- size and not the other way around until they acquire some experience and skill as a scribe. 6) one on one works best, though I've managed sucessfully with a class size as large as six 7) run any experienced and/or well-known scribes out of the room. It's not that I don't like you, but your presence tends to discourage the comradery of frustrated calligraphers which I find helpful to breaking down the preceived student-teacher barrier to learning. I tend to teach by selling myself as a fellow frustrated calligrapher who's learned some useful tricks. After analyzing how I personally learned how to both write and calligraph, and putting it together with a little teaching theory, what I've just outlined on how to teach the fumble-fingered is essentially just that - - how this member of the fumble-fingered figured it out, and is happy to share the wealth. So, if you write funny like me, maybe your death grip is an natural artifact of how you write, and maybe you don't want to learn to get rid of it... just my two cents ttfn, Therasia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:21:52 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasers > Speaking of what one likes, in the eraser and pencil arena: Has anyone found the Pentel Dr. Grip pencils? They are fab-u-lous! The pencil has a comfy fat cushy thing just the right distance (for me) above the point, and one can select any hardness of lead, so long as it's .5mm lead. Picked mine up at Office Max. (They're usually near the gel pens, which are also handy for field scrolls, in my opinion...) > > The pens are cool too, and refillable. And one's coworkers will continually try to snatch it off one's desk. Hmmm, sounds nice. No, I use a Pilot Protegé 0.77mm technical pencil for drawing out my illumination borders. (Somehow it seemed appropriate, given that I *am* a Protegé, but beyond that, I really liked the way it felt in my hands.) I'll have to keep an eye out for this Pentel pencil that you speak of. And the pens, too...................! ~Saradwen, pen junkie (guess I take after my late father, who died 40 years ago. What little I remember of him was that he was a serious pen junkie and had a marvelous collection of very fancy fountain pens in the tiny office he had in our old house that we lived in before he died! We still have those old fountain pens somewhere at my mom's house.........................) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:46:28 -0500 From: "Margareta vanden Velde" Subject: [scribes]: lefties I know this topic comes up and up again: Anyone out there have some calligraphy books for lefties? ie that might be available in Canada? I'm not a leftie but I have a leftie friend who wants to learn and I'm stumped as to how to teach her. Anyone? Margareta vanden Velde Barony of Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- Gules, three sparks inverted and a bordure engrailed Or. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 16:49:29 -0500 From: "N.D. Wederstrandt" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasers >So how did it work? > >Anna de Byxe > > >> I did once use white bread as an eraser.... that >> says alot about the >> way bread is made.... I got curious after being told > > it works.... >> Actually quite well for pencil marks. i used a piece of the cheapest white bread I could find and wadded it up.... I was surprized but it also made me queasey - I ate tons of cheap white bread as a child..... Clare Ansteorra. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:08:38 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf - --part1_113.52198ba.28e116f6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings everyone, In a couple of weeks I am supposed to be teaching a two hour class (workshop format) on gold leaf. I plan to spend the first hour on modern techniques (with which I am very comfortable) and the second hour on period techniques (with which I have hardly done at all) at Atlantia's University event. What I was wondering was if anyone has any tips on teaching period techniques. I was also wondering if people could send me some gesso recipes. I know we have done this several times before, but I cannot seem to find the ones I printed out. I was also wondering how you do flat gold leaf using period supplies instead of raised gold leaf (using gesso). They did do flat gold leaf, didn't they? Or was all the gold leaf raised in period? This is probably not something I should be teaching quite yet, but since I do really well with the modern techniques, I thought it would be nice to give people a chance to learn both and see what they like better. I hope I don't blow it too badly. Thanks for all the help you can give me! Brandy - --part1_113.52198ba.28e116f6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings everyone,
In a couple of weeks I am supposed to be teaching a two hour class (workshop format) on gold leaf. I plan to spend the first hour on modern techniques (with which I am very comfortable) and the second hour on period techniques (with which I have hardly done at all) at Atlantia's University event.

What I was wondering was if anyone has any tips on teaching period techniques. I was also wondering if people could send me some gesso recipes. I know we have done this several times before, but I cannot seem to find the ones I printed out.

I was also wondering how you do flat gold leaf using period supplies instead of raised gold leaf (using gesso). They did do flat gold leaf, didn't they? Or was all the gold leaf raised in period?

This is probably not something I should be teaching quite yet, but since I do really well with the modern techniques, I thought it would be nice to give people a chance to learn both and see what they like better. I hope I don't blow it too badly.

Thanks for all the help you can give me!
Brandy - --part1_113.52198ba.28e116f6_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:09:49 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasers > Hmmm, sounds nice. No, I use a Pilot Protegé 0.77mm technical pencil for > drawing out my illumination borders. (Somehow it seemed appropriate, given > that I *am* a Protegé, but beyond that, I really liked the way it felt in my > hands.) Ooops, meant to say that my Pilot Protegé pencil was a 0.7mm, not 0.77! Sheesh! Anyway, Katarina, I went to Office Max and found that Dr. Grip pencil you were talking about. It's made by Pilot, not Pentel. So I got myself a 0.7mm Dr. Grip pencil and a Dr. Grip black ink medium point pen in the Neon Electric blue colour! Wow, you're right, those Dr. Grip pens and pencils DO feel good, not that I am someone who has a heavy grip problem, but still, it does feel really nice! Think I'm going to like writing and drawing with those! Thanks for the tip! Oh, I'm still going to use my trusty Pilot Protegé 0.7mm pencil, just because I do like it very much, but it'll be nice to have a choice as to which pencil I want to use! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:18:53 -0500 From: Dave Nolan/Kara Westfall Subject: Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf - -=>I was also wondering how you do flat gold leaf using period supplies instead - -=>of raised gold leaf (using gesso). They did do flat gold leaf, didn't they? Yup. Gum ammoniac, gilder's mallt, garlic juice, fish glue, rotten glaire, and many other substances may be used for flat gilding. I have found that the gum ammoniac and gilder's malt work the best and easiest, but it's worth trying everything, both for the experience, and because sometimes you are willing to try anything to get the blasted leaf to stick. Gum ammoniac is not too hard to come by, Paper and Ink Arts has it, I'm guessing John Neal as well, the malt I'm not sure about anymore, my source dried up. Chiara da Ravenna Stonemarche, East (NH) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:33:40 -0500 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf Please tell us more about "gilder's malt." I've never heard of it, though I have heard of gilding on beer. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nolan/Kara Westfall" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf > -=>I was also wondering how you do flat gold leaf using period supplies > instead > -=>of raised gold leaf (using gesso). They did do flat gold leaf, didn't they? > > Yup. > Gum ammoniac, gilder's mallt, garlic juice, fish glue, rotten glaire, and many > other substances may be used for flat gilding. I have found that the gum > ammoniac and gilder's malt work the best and easiest, but it's worth trying > everything, both for the experience, and because sometimes you are willing > to try anything to get the blasted leaf to stick. > > Gum ammoniac is not too hard to come by, Paper and Ink Arts has it, I'm > guessing John Neal as well, the malt I'm not sure about anymore, my source > dried up. > > Chiara da Ravenna > Stonemarche, East (NH) > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:55:18 EDT From: KATAKIRA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pens & Toys In a message dated Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:13:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Sally Burnell" writes: > Anyway, Katarina, I went to Office Max and found that Dr. Grip pencil you > were talking about. It's made by Pilot, not Pentel.>> Doh! Well, you know, Office Max is like a toy store for me...I know what I'm going in for! And the other fun toys there include a Mars Staedtler variable hardness drawing pencil set (cool tin), a Mars wtercolor pencil set (another cool tin), lots and lots of the clear greeny drafting templates, drafting brushes for erasing, heavy metal pencils and the leads (as were mentioned earlier), the cheapest tracing paper anywhere, nice drafint vellum, which are cool for tranferring designs, sturdier than tracing paper, IMO, and [deep breath] a king's ransom in gel pens. And there are almost as many toys at Staples. I love it when you can find basic drawing toys for cheap. Katarina Peregrine Gwyntarian, Middle PS: Saradwen, put/paint something on your pencil and I'll put something on mine (a scottie sticker?) so we don't get them confused if we're working together somewhere. You'll notice that the plastic grip on the Dr. Grip stuff will eventually conform to you and you alone... =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:26:15 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:teaching gold leaf Gilding is not an easy subject to learn or teach. I taught myself and it took me many sessions of trial and error. I learned more from practical application than anyone could have taught me ... and I'm still learning new things after 6 years of playing with it. Trying to condense all of that knowledge into 2 hours is a trial to be sure, but I do it on a regular basis and have fun doing it. The key is being prepared in advance. When I teach gilding I set aside 2 days to prepare for a class. The first day I make the gesso and gum ammoniac. On the second day I make packets for the class. The packets are plastic sandwich bags containing everything needed for a person to gild (gold leaf, practice sheets, tweezers, glassine, straw, craft knife, silk, burnisher, brushes). This saves a lot of class time. The first 15 minutes of a class are used to explain what each material is used for instead of spent passing them out. When I teach the class I take along all of the materials I use to make the gesso and size, plenty of books to show examples of how gold was used and all of the books listed in my bibliography. I have sample sheets that are side by side comparisons of different ways to apply gold and gold substitutes that show why real gold leaf is worth the time and effort. I also have a set of samples I've made that show common errors. Instead of just talking about the mottling that happens when the gesso is too wet or the feathered appearance of the flaking gold when the gesso doesn't have enough moisture in it to hold the gold down I can show what I'm talking about. The crunch of dry gesso is hard to describe and so is the soft mushy feeling when it is too soft. The class is fast paced and can get hectic. Be ready to answer a lot of questions. :-) I'd suggest limiting the class size. You will want to move about and spend one on one time with each person. Best of luck :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:31:54 -0500 (CDT) From: sburnell@raex.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pens & Toys > PS: Saradwen, put/paint something on your pencil and I'll put something on mine (a scottie sticker?) so we don't get them confused if we're working together somewhere. You'll notice that the plastic grip on the Dr. Grip stuff will eventually conform to you and you alone... What colour is yours? Mine's a kind of cobalt blue. Also, mine's a 0.7mm. Isn't yours a 0.5mm? Gee, given that my arms are Azure, a triquetra within a bordure embatteld argent, I could almost paint a tiny silver triquetra on my pencil to mark it as mine. Lemme guess, yours is purple, right? ;-) I saw them in that colour and looked for a good blue one, since that IS my favourite colour! I've always preferred the 0.7mm size, but like each and every one of us scribes, we all have our own personal preferences!! ~Saradwen, writing implement junkie, just like her dear ol' dad was! =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:38:28 -0400 From: "Laura Peskett" <2rozakii@home.com> Subject: [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question I was hoping that someone on this wonderful list could help me. :-) We're invited to a wedding next month and money is a bit tight. I was thinking of doing a nice scroll for their gift. Does anyone know of any period love and/or marriage poems? Or has anyone done something similar for friends and what did you do? Thanks a bunch for any help! Tzitzakion (Laura Peskett) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:26:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: lefties On Mon, 24 Sep 2001, Margareta vanden Velde wrote: > I know this topic comes up and up again: Anyone out there have some > calligraphy books for lefties? ie that might be available in Canada? I'm > not a leftie but I have a leftie friend who wants to learn and I'm stumped > as to how to teach her. > > Anyone? > > Margareta vanden Velde > Barony of Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere I have a paperback book that deals with left-handed calligraphy, and John Neal has one on their website, but I don't think they're the same book. [checking] Nope, they're not. I have _Left Handed Calligraphy_, published by Dover Books. Also, the MK Scribal Handbook has a section on sinister scribing. Margaret FitzWilliam =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:10:38 -0500 From: Dave Nolan/Kara Westfall Subject: Re: [scribes]: teaching gold leaf - -=>Please tell us more about "gilder's malt." I've never heard of it, though I - -=>have heard of gilding on beer. It's a thick syrup, the consistency of blackstrap molasses, and I add water to it to make it usable. I'm not sure how it differs from any other kind of malt, but it is very smooth. It's amazingly hygroscopic, and the leaf sticks to it like a dream, and even looks a little shiny (more so than gum ammoniac, anyway) I guess the biggest drawback is that it is so hygroscopic, the gilded areas can be kinda delicate when the atmosphere is humid, so you have to be careful handling the finished product. I've been told that the Gabriel Guild carries it. :) Chiara =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:59:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Laura Peskett wrote: > I was hoping that someone on this wonderful list could help me. :-) We're > invited to a wedding next month and money is a bit tight. I was thinking of > doing a nice scroll for their gift. Does anyone know of any period love > and/or marriage poems? Or has anyone done something similar for friends and > what did you do? > > Thanks a bunch for any help! > > Tzitzakion > (Laura Peskett) I've been toying with the idea of doing up some Scripture for elderly relatives, but I haven't gotten around to it. As for love poetry, you could look at Shakespeare, who is period, or, if they don't mind religious writing, something from the Song of Songs. Or Petrarch, perhaps. I haven't gotten as far as figuring out the style, otherwise I'd have more input, but personally I'd want to use a style that was chronologically appropriate for the work I was using. Except, of course, for Bible texts, since I can't do Hebrew calligraphy. ;-) Margaret FitzWilliam =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:26:04 -0300 From: "Martin Higgins" Subject: Re: [scribes]: OT: Slightly off-topic question > Does anyone know of any period love > and/or marriage poems? Or has anyone done something similar for friends and > what did you do? > Tzitzakion > (Laura Peskett) Try looking up Edmund Spencer, he wrote a fair deal of sonnets. Example: One day I wrote her name on the strand, But came the waves and washed it away: Agayne I wrote it with a second hand, But came the tyde, and made my paynes his pray. "Vayne man," sayd she, "that doest in vaine assay, A mortall thing so to immortalize, For I my selve shall lyke to this decay, And eek my name bee wyped out lykwize." "not so," quod I, "let baser things devize, To dy in dust, but you shall live by fame: My verse your vertues rare shall eternize, And in the heavens wryte your glorious name. Where whenas death shall all the world subdew, Our love shall live, and later life renew." This one touches my heart, though he does more flowery ones as well (literally) Hope this helps Griet =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #12 ****************************