From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #6 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, September 16 2001 Volume 07 : Number 006 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Fwd: [Scriptoris] Abbreviationes [scribes]: Re: Fwd: [Scriptoris] Abbreviationes [scribes]: Griet's holiday [scribes]: dip pens Re: [scribes]: dip pens Re: [scribes]: dip pens [scribes]: (OT) Candlelight vigil Re: [scribes]: dip pens Re: [scribes]: dip pens [scribes]: Ripple Effects Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:22:52 EDT From: HLOriana@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Fwd: [Scriptoris] Abbreviationes - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_alt_boundary" - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sure that there are people on this list who will find this info fascinating. Oriana - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sure that there are people on this list who will find this info fascinating.

Oriana - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_alt_boundary-- - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc05.mx.aol.com (rly-yc05.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.37]) by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYC59-0829161109; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:11:09 2000 Received: from blackstar.ansteorra.org (adsl-216-62-214-29.dsl.austtx.swbell.net [216.62.214.29]) by rly-yc05.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC53-0829161057; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:10:57 -0400 Received: from blackstar.ansteorra.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackstar.ansteorra.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13387; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:08:57 -0500 Received: from web10406.mail.yahoo.com (web10406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.98]) by blackstar.ansteorra.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA13356 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 15:07:45 -0500 Message-ID: <20010829200733.67854.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.55.134.5] by web10406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:07:33 PDT From: "Dr Tiomoid M. of Angle" To: Ansteorra Scribe List MIME-Version: 1.0 content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Scriptoris] Abbreviationes Sender: scriptoris-admin@ansteorra.org Errors-To: scriptoris-admin@ansteorra.org X-BeenThere: scriptoris@ansteorra.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scriptoris@ansteorra.org X-Reply-To: tadhg@bigfoot.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Scribes within Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:07:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) There is a program available from a faculty member of a Dutch University tha= t deals with the scribal abbreviations used in medieval Latin documents. Knowledge of such abbreviations is, of course, needed to make sense of such documents, especially for those whose Latin is, shall we say, less than flue= nt. Here's the blurb: "Abbreviationes=99, the first electronic dictionary of medieval Latin abbreviations, is a powerful database designed for use in both learning and teaching medieval Latin paleography. Abbreviationes=99 can be used as a refe= rence and research tool as well. It consists of a database (Main Dictionary) and a database application (Abbreviationes=99) =96 a mature, robust, and reliable program, suitable for everyone from the novice to the expert. An electronic dictionary is immeasurably more effective than a printed dictionary in terms= of speed and efficiency. Furthermore, this database currently contains more tha= n 65,000 entries, which is more than four times as many as you can find in all the printed dictionaries compiled by Walther, Chassant, De la Bra=F1a, Cappe= lli, and Pelzer combined. Thanks to updates and enhancements, which are released every year, the Main Dictionary continues to grow steadily. Abbreviationes= =99 is a standard reference work and reflects the state of contemporary scholarship= . " Here's the link: http://www.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/philosophy/projects/abbrev.htm Those in the SCA who may actually be interested in period documents, as oppo= sed to just looking at pretty pictures -- all, what, five of us? -- will find th= is software both interesting and useful. Tadhg - --------------------------------------------------------------- I can only be nice to one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking very promising, either. - --------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Scriptoris mailing list Scriptoris@ansteorra.org http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/scriptoris - --part1_f3.f0c995f.28d388dc_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:51:31 -0300 From: "Martin Higgins" Subject: [scribes]: Re: Fwd: [Scriptoris] Abbreviationes Ok... well I would be more like.. less that less that fluent in Latin ;o) but it does seem a very useful tool. maybe it is best I stick to the pictures and let others translate Griet (~who had a great time buying some calligraphy stuff and getting to examine real midieval illumination close up on her holiday~) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:56:53 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: Griet's holiday - --=====================_362828690==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:51 PM 9/14/2001 -0300, Martin Higgins wrote: >Griet >(~who had a great time buying some calligraphy stuff and getting to examine >real midieval illumination close up on her holiday~) Where did you go, what did you get to see and did you learn anything wonderful in your examinations? Cu Drag, Despina de la Curious - ---------- "Re-creation necessarily implies research before the craftwork starts. If you haven't done the research, you can create, but you cannot possibly RE-create." [Arval d'Espas Nord] - --=====================_362828690==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:51 PM 9/14/2001 -0300, Martin Higgins wrote:

Griet
(~who had a great time buying some calligraphy stuff and getting to examine
real midieval illumination close up on her holiday~)

Where did you go, what did you get to see and did you learn anything wonderful in your examinations?

Cu Drag,
Despina de la Curious

"Re-creation necessarily implies research before the craftwork
starts. If you haven't done the research, you can create, but you
cannot possibly RE-create." [Arval d'Espas Nord]
- --=====================_362828690==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:00:38 +0000 From: "Russell Husted" Subject: [scribes]: dip pens o.k. you guys. I am mad:-) at you guys. None of you said how much fun it was to use a dip pen. I have been having a blast the last few days learning how to use them. And you can work sooooo smallll with them. These things are neat! your servant, mahee _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:58:08 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip pens - --=====================_370103610==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:29 PM 9/14/2001 +0000, you wrote: >

>Thanks, but where do you buy crow quill pens > >can't wait to play with one. Same sorts of places you can buy speedball dip pens - craft stores, art supply stores, paper specialty stores, (like Micheals and HobbyLobby). The holders are generally brown and the nibs are very small. There is a scraper nib that I love for when I make a mistake. http://www.dickblick.com/zz209/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1441 http://www.artistsupplies.com/catalog3.htm http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=1795 http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Shrine/3042/gpen.html#maru states the following: CROW-QUILL or MARU PEN (same as Kabura) The many varieties of these pens, so called because the part which connects to the pen stock is curved into a round tube like shape, generally produce the thinnest lines of all nibs. They make delicate and very beautiful lines, used mainly by shojo manga artists. Crow quills require a different type of pen stock than the other nibs, smaller and with a round hole at the tip. The Hunt 102 is the "standard" crow quill, can make a razor thin line but is quite flexible. Not suitable for backgrounds as the line variation is too extreme. As this pen is quite flexible, it seems after it softens a bit it can be as dynamic as a G-pen..however, its weight is too light to "feel" and the holders for maru-type pens tend to be microscopic, so it depends on your hand size(perhaps). The 104, "Stiff Hawk"(yes, ridiculous), is the best nib available in the US for backgrounds, drafting, and speed lines. Recognizable because the resevoir opening is totally round, it has almost zero line variation so goes well as contrast to more dynamically lined characters as their BG lines. Hunt 108...what the HELL??!?? I think its an alien pen, its a brass color and has two huge, verrrry flexible phalanges on the tip(please, don't get excited....). The slightest pressure will make a fat, brushlike like line, and likely the pen will lose its resevoir and vomit the rest of the ink onto the paper as well. If anyone has a use for this weird creature e-mail me and let me know. I have little experience with Japanese crow quills as I dont use the things! However, probably 85% of shojo manga is drawn with them. http://www.teleport.com/~ennead/ampersand/sim/169.html has another editorial on it. Smiles, Despina - ---------- There is more to life than increasing its speed. - --Gandhi - --=====================_370103610==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:29 PM 9/14/2001 +0000, you wrote:

<br><br><br>
Thanks, but where do you buy crow quill pens

can't wait to play with one.

Same sorts of places you can buy speedball dip pens - craft stores, art supply stores, paper specialty stores, (like Micheals and HobbyLobby). The holders are generally brown and the nibs are very small. There is a scraper nib that I love for when I make a mistake.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz209/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1441

http://www.artistsupplies.com/catalog3.htm

http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=1795

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Shrine/3042/gpen.html#maru states the following:

CROW-QUILL or MARU PEN
(same as Kabura)
The many varieties of these pens, so called because the part which connects to the pen stock is curved into a round tube like shape, generally produce the thinnest lines of all nibs. They make delicate and very beautiful lines, used mainly by shojo manga artists. Crow quills require a different type of pen stock than the other nibs, smaller and with a round hole at the tip.
The Hunt 102 is the "standard" crow quill, can make a razor thin line but is quite flexible. Not suitable for backgrounds as the line variation is too extreme. As this pen is quite flexible, it seems after it softens a bit it can be as dynamic as a G-pen..however, its weight is too light to "feel" and the holders for maru-type pens tend to be microscopic, so it depends on your hand size(perhaps).
The 104, "Stiff Hawk"(yes, ridiculous), is the best nib available in the US for backgrounds, drafting, and speed lines. Recognizable because the resevoir opening is totally round, it has almost zero line variation so goes well as contrast to more dynamically lined characters as their BG lines.
Hunt 108...what the HELL??!?? I think its an alien pen, its a brass color and has two huge, verrrry flexible phalanges on the tip(please, don't get excited....). The slightest pressure will make a fat, brushlike like line, and likely the pen will lose its resevoir and vomit the rest of the ink onto the paper as well. If anyone has a use for this weird creature e-mail me and let me know.
I have little experience with Japanese crow quills as I dont use the things! However, probably 85% of shojo manga is drawn with them.

http://www.teleport.com/~ennead/ampersand/sim/169.html has another editorial on it.

Smiles,
Despina

There is more to life than increasing its speed.
--Gandhi
- --=====================_370103610==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:57:41 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip pens - --=====================_373675997==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:41 PM 9/14/2001 +0000, Russell Husted wrote: >These are bird feathers...right? nope. These are tiny metal nibs that are held in a plastic holder. >I have a small nib holder, it is brown and only little tiny nibs fit into >it. It is called a scrapper. But the nibs are metal. so still a bit confused. http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/2036/2tools.htm has a picture of a crow quill. It sounds as if you have a crow quill. I believe a scrapper is one type of crow quill nib, but I could be wrong on this. The name for this small writing utensil comes from the once used feathers but it (currently) denotes a pen made of a tiny metal nib in a plastic holder. You can make bird feather quills smaller than these metal nibs with practice. Smiles, Despina - ---------- Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul; the blue prints of your ultimate accomplishments. - --Napoleon Hill - --=====================_373675997==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:41 PM 9/14/2001 +0000, Russell Husted wrote:

These are bird feathers...right?

nope. These are tiny metal nibs that are held in a plastic holder.

I have a small nib holder, it is brown and only little tiny nibs fit into it. It is called a scrapper. But the nibs are metal. so still a bit confused.

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/2036/2tools.htm

has a picture of a crow quill. It sounds as if you have a crow quill. I believe a scrapper is one type of crow quill nib, but I could be wrong on this.

The name for this small writing utensil comes from the once used feathers but it (currently) denotes a pen made of a tiny metal nib in a plastic holder. You can make bird feather quills smaller than these metal nibs with practice.

Smiles,
Despina

Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul; the blue prints of your ultimate accomplishments.
--Napoleon Hill
- --=====================_373675997==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:23:57 -0400 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: [scribes]: (OT) Candlelight vigil Please take a moment from your scribing efforts to read this: Please excuse this off-topic post, but I would ask all of you for just a small favour: Tonight, nationwide, people will be lighting candles in memory of those who died this week in terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, DC. The plan is for this to begin at 7:00 pm Pacific time, 8:00 pm Mountain time, 9:00 pm Central time and 10:00 pm Eastern time, so that we may all be united together in a moment of offering a bit of light against the darkness we've experience this week. Please pass this information along to all those you know, all lists you are on and everyone you correspond with electronically. Let's show our solidarity and make a statement that we will NOT tolerate terrorism! Thanks! I now return you to your regular programming......................... ~Saradwen =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:12:26 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip pens This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13D51.30AD65C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahee, Despina, and all others: The best metal nib I have found that is "crow quill" size is the Brause = EF-66. This nib is wonderfully flexible, it can be used to do TINY = scripts when you have learned how to manipulate it, and has a = wonderfully fine tip. And, you can also use some Crocus Cloth to = carefully grind it down to a flat nib, if you really want to. (I've = made it work fine as a calligraphy nib just with pressure manipulation, = though -- thanks to Reggie Ezell's instruction.) Most of our usual mail = order catalogs carry it, as do some art stores. I don't think Michaels = carries it, though, as they don't carry many of the individual nibs. = Paper and Ink, John Neal, Pendragon, etc. do carry it. KHvS - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13D51.30AD65C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mahee, Despina, and all = others:

The best metal nib I have found that is = "crow=20 quill" size is the Brause EF-66. This nib is wonderfully flexible, = it can=20 be used to do TINY scripts when you have learned how to manipulate it, = and has a=20 wonderfully fine tip. And, you can also use some Crocus Cloth to = carefully=20 grind it down to a flat nib, if you really want to. (I've made it = work=20 fine as a calligraphy nib just with pressure manipulation, though -- = thanks to=20 Reggie Ezell's instruction.) Most of our usual mail order catalogs = carry=20 it, as do some art stores. I don't think Michaels carries it, = though, as=20 they don't carry many of the individual nibs. Paper and Ink, John = Neal,=20 Pendragon, etc. do carry it.

KHvS

- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13D51.30AD65C0-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:15:47 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip pens In a message dated 9/14/2001 3:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, husted@hotmail.com writes: > o.k. you guys. I am mad:-) at you guys. None of you said how much fun it was > > to use a dip pen. I have been having a blast the last few days learning how > to use them. And you can work sooooo smallll with them. These things are > neat! > > your servant, > mahee Shhh, don't anyone tell Mahee how much fun real quills are to work with ;-) Eibhlin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 06:47:31 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Good morning, everyone. In the middle of all of what has happened, the changes to the way we live -- here and elsewhere -- have happened immediately. The skies are quiet here on Long Island, save for the occasional roar of an F-16. There are checkpoints at the bridges, and even as I figured last night, at the ferries. Many people are leaving the NYC area this weekend to spend time away from 'ground zero', as the media has been calling it... and while the thoughts I have had about playing in the SCA have come secondary, there's certainly a large ripple effect even onto that. Previously, I was able to board an airplane in March with a calligraphy kit, which included an exacto knife, my paints and inks, and the Speedball dip pens I own, which have very sharp tips. Yet, at the same time, I was stopped for bringing a replica of a brass 17th c. desk set in my carry-on, because in the x-ray, it appeared to be a metal device. Either way, it appears that toting materials back and forth has now been restricted, or I will have to make purchases at the destination, and leave materials behind. (On a similar note, my older brother has been allowed on airliners before with his fishing gear, which included a well-taped and bound tacklebox, containing a fillet knife). Previously, I could get in a car with a bow and my arrows, and head to an SCA event off the Island, or a practice off the Island, without a single thought about being stopped by the police and be questioned about it. The security measures taken over here, I think, are well-founded. I was surprised when I was able to board a ferry last night with my bow and arrows without being questioned; thankfully, once on board, I found that they _are_ doing security checks. The cabin was swept by the captain, 1st mate, and security guards. I was given the option of having my bow (unstrung to begin with and in the bowsock) and arrows confiscated, or leaving the boat. I chose confiscation, and they were very polite about it when they did not have to be; they stored the bow flat at my request, but I completely understand why this was done, given the circumstances. Likewise, I was concerned about children on the boat getting to the gear, or people around me being uneasy over the prospect of the bow being on-board. (In NJ, bows are considered as guns and require a licence to own; I could see it happening in NY pretty soon). While I did get the bow and arrows back upon arrival here last night, there were police checking the cars in Bridgeport. Master Aetheric's comments have brought to light that even scrolls have been questioned over. I personally do not believe I will be accepting non-local Middle Eastern scrolls, and this is nothing against those who have chosen those personae, but transporting them and mailing them may earn more problems than I would like. At the very least, I hope this is resolved soon. If there is a Pennsic War next year, my lord and I have already had a strong suspicion that it would be a friendship war, in light of this week's events. But who knows... These thoughts are secondary right now to the concern for the well-being of those still trapped in what is left of the WTC, and the efforts of the brave souls working on removing everyone from it. My parents have thankfully switched their plans for a flight to San Francisco today to a car trip to Smuggler's Notch in VT. In any case... these are just some of the ripple effects. I can only hope that this weekend provides the chance to 'go play' and take our minds off this tragedy if only for a brief moment. Take care of yourselves, all of you. Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East) Elizabeth Frank, Long Island, NY =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:54:37 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Dear folks, I think I need to comment on Kayleigh's comments pertaining to travel with art supplies, or mailing scrolls. Consider the way travellers' items are checked: metal detectors are going to be much more familiar, and as Kayleigh notes, toting pen knives and metal nibs to events may no longer be feasible. But this should not prevent us from doing what we have always done at events, even calligraphy and painting. There are low-tech, non-metal alternatives to metal nibs; and the pen knives needed to cut them are not essential equipment outside one's studio. Nor do ink and paint do not require metal containers to transport sufficient quantities to events -- squeeze some goucahe into a plastic bag if necessary, it'll keep. And in air travel, there ought still be a difference between the requirements for carry-on versus checked baggage; one might be able to check the bags with the few metal implements one needs. One might ultimately choose to travel other than by air. Events will require more pre-planning, but need not be less enjoyable from lack of equipment. As to mailing scrolls, I can see how a fine piece with gold borders, initials and other decoration might show up on an x-ray inspection as a very suspicous piece of circuitry; but do we need to risk our art by mailing it? And do we need gold leaf to make it fine art? I don't think so. Focusing on good calligraphy that stands on its own without decoration as a prop, and good decoration that isn't overcome by the glitz factor, will give us better art; and hand-delivery will better ensure its preservation. - -- johannes v.n. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Steiner Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Dear Kayleigh, I think we'll all have a better perspective on this in a few weeks. This has been a terrible few days, especially for those of us who live on the Eastern Seaboard. One of my dear friends is a stewardess for United, based out of Newark. On an average day she would have been aboard Flight 93. Tuesday was her day off. We can't afford, as free men and women, to give in to the lure of security over liberty. If we do that, the terrorists have won. God forbid that we should wind up as a society in which dip pens are considered weapons...or in which we fear works of art because they are written in Arabic! That's not the history of our country; and I refuse to believe that it's our future. Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern Aethelmearc Buffalo, NY, USA __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Steiner Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ripple Effects Baron Alt, You also make good points! I have no intention of criticizing Kayleigh, or anyone else who is concerned for the safety of friends and family. We're all badly shaken by the events of the past week....as well we should be. That said, we must still exercise our freedom....insist on our freedom...and be prepared to educate those who are ignorant enough to want to take that freedom away. The terrorists -want- us to focus on fear, to suspect one another without cause, and to give up our rights in an attempt to increase our safety. If we refuse to follow their agenda, they lose. The amazing thing about this week is that, by and large, our society has become -more- caring as a result of the tragedies in New York and Washington. Only a handful of people are striking out based on appearances. Americans are responding with resolve, not with panic. I understand your concern for SCAdians with Middle Eastern personas. I share that concern. But please consider this....when we maintain those personas we make a statement of support for Arab Americans. They, after all, can't turn their identities on and off. They aren't playing a game. Let's be free citizens of a free country, and give no quarter to those who would intimidate their countrymen. If they hate the Arabs, let's stand with Arab Americans. If they hate the Jews, let's stand with Jewish Americans. If they hate the Christians, let's stand with Christian Americans. Victory over terrorism comes every time we refuse to be intimidated. Respectfully, Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern Longwinded Scribe and Lapidary :-) Barony of the Rhyderrich Hael Aethelmearc - --- AltAndreas100@netscape.net wrote: > Peter, and All - > > Kayleigh has a good point. While it would be nice to think that other > folk would readily recognize our SCA society as being purely for fun, > these are not fun times and people seeing us in our "strange" outfits > might be tempted to think otherwise purely out of panic, a feeling of > misplaced revenge (such as treating all Arabs and Muslims alike as > enemies), or as a fustrated need fulfilled without thinking that we > are just "playing". > > It might be a good idea for awhile if those of us with Arab or > Middle Eastern persona's perhaps adopt a secondary persona - such as > I do when travelling at length in other Kingdoms (where I have been > known as Alt the Wanderer, (amongst other names) rather than Baron > Alt Andreas von Sohren). > While my persona never has been Arabian - but rather an Old Crusader > either on his way home from the 3rd Crusade or just arrived home (as > Baron Alt) - I think maybe we shouldn't advertise our love of the (to > us) better parts of Middle Eastern culture for awhile- just for > safety's sake. > > I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with being Arab or Middle > Eastern, or even Middle Asian - just that we should be extra careful > in a time of national war when the rednecks come out of the woodwork. > > > Baron Alt Andreas v. Sohren > CAID - living on the Plains of Gorgonoth > and occasionally on the disputed lands close to the Shire of > Heatherwyne > > > > > >I think we'll all have a better perspective on this in a few weeks. > >This has been a terrible few days, especially for those of us who > live > >on the Eastern Seaboard. One of my dear friends is a stewardess for > >United, based out of Newark. On an average day she would have been > >aboard Flight 93. Tuesday was her day off. > > > >We can't afford, as free men and women, to give in to the lure of > >security over liberty. If we do that, the terrorists have won. God > >forbid that we should wind up as a society in which dip pens are > >considered weapons...or in which we fear works of art because they > are > >written in Arabic! That's not the history of our country; and I > refuse > >to believe that it's our future. > > > >Peter Gwer Rychen von Bern > >Aethelmearc > >Buffalo, NY, USA > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > >Donate cash, emergency relief information > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > >=================================================================== > >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > >with a blank Subject: line and > >unsubscribe scribes > >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > >the body. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. > Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! > http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at > http://webmail.netscape.com/ > __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #6 ***************************