From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V7 #3 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, September 6 2001 Volume 07 : Number 003 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: wanted, middle english guru! [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. [scribes]: Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe Page [scribes]: Re: Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe Page Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query [scribes]: glair [scribes]: Re: wanted, middle english guru! [scribes]: guache Re: [scribes]: Inks (was guache) Re: [scribes]: Re: wanted, middle english guru! [scribes]: An exhibit you might be interested in ... Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Re: [scribes]: guache ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:31:32 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: wanted, middle english guru! In a message dated 9/5/01 9:42:34 AM, japester@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au writes: << thron, the funny z etc. >> I assume you mean thorn for the first, and yogh is the name of the second. I'm not sure where you'd find pictures of them in caroline minuscule, though. A quick glance at Stan Knight's _Historic Scripts_ didn't show any. Eowyn =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:08:09 -0500 From: Greg Young/Jocelyn Wirth Subject: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Greetings to the list from Mistress Ainesleah, I subscribed to the list during Pennsic, and have been cheerfully lurking since then. I'm a beginning illuminator (since March actually), doing mainly insular work. And now I have a question for the list. Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you pick that particular brand. I'm going to ask that people reply to the list, because I'm sure there are other beginning illuminators out there who would also like to hear what others are using. Just for reference purposes, I started off with Pentel Watercolors. Then I experimented with Reeves watercolors and gouach, moving on to Lukas Gouaches, Maimeri (Venzia and MaimerBlu - both with I like), and M. Graham watercolors and gouach (I really like the watercolors). Yep, I've tried lots - got to love 'Try Out Sets'. Thanks in advance for all the responses I hope to get :) ****************************************************************************** Mistress Hermina Matilda de Ainesleah of Meredene Member # 19216 HL Robin Arthur Kyrke, Esq.; Principality Archery Marshal Member # 28653 Barony of Castel Rouge Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Jocelyn Wirth and Greg Young excalibr@gatewest.net ****************************************************************************** Ä =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:48:09 -0400 From: "Laura Peskett" <2rozakii@home.com> Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query I must admit that my experience with different paints is limited, but I love my Windsor and Newton gouaches! I was given my first set of tubes as a "bridesmaid gift" - I think so that I would stop stealing my friend's paints to play with at events. :-) I mix up the colors in little cups and on palettes and just re-wet them when needed. My two teens (yes, Santa brought them illumination kits two years ago so that they would stop stealing my stuff!), have Pelikan watercolors. These were highly recommended by a few people and have worked out great. :-) Tzitzakion BBM, East Kingdom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young/Jocelyn Wirth" > Greetings to the list from Mistress Ainesleah, > > I subscribed to the list during Pennsic, and have been cheerfully lurking > since then. I'm a beginning illuminator (since March actually), doing > mainly insular work. And now I have a question for the list. > > Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different > brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do > other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you > pick that particular brand. > > I'm going to ask that people reply to the list, because I'm sure there are > other beginning illuminators out there who would also like to hear what > others are using. > > Just for reference purposes, I started off with Pentel Watercolors. Then I > experimented with Reeves watercolors and gouach, moving on to Lukas > Gouaches, Maimeri (Venzia and MaimerBlu - both with I like), and M. Graham > watercolors and gouach (I really like the watercolors). Yep, I've tried > lots - got to love 'Try Out Sets'. > > Thanks in advance for all the responses I hope to get :) > > **************************************************************************** ** > Mistress Hermina Matilda de Ainesleah of Meredene Member # 19216 > HL Robin Arthur Kyrke, Esq.; Principality Archery Marshal Member # 28653 > Barony of Castel Rouge Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada > > Jocelyn Wirth and Greg Young excalibr@gatewest.net > **************************************************************************** **Ä > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:41:45 -0400 From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Greetings-- Like Tzitzakion, I'm a Windsor and Newton gouache fan, and also have a set of Pelikans. I also bought a set of "starter" gouaches at Dick Blick which haven't been too bad, either, although they don't quite have the depth/realism of color the W&Ns have. Nicolaa =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 23:47:30 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. Windsor & Newton is also my paint of choice, although I have a penchant for mixing my colors with the Cottman and ShinHan brand watercolors. Watercolors with nearly no water in them blend well with gouache, as was recommended to me in college -- by blending the two mediums, I can tone down brighter colors, or give myself a broader spectrum to choose from. W&N's brands are expensive around here, costing roughly $6 a tube on a good day, if you get something like a primary or secondary color. Cottman watercolors are cheap in comparison, but only worth it if you plan on using them repeatedly. Most of my paints from college have dried up in the tubes, since they haven't been used for commercial or hobby purposes since graduating in '95. I didn't get involved as a scribe in the SCA until last year, hence, I needed to replace at least the primaries.... Red, yellow, blue, and flesh, with a mixed range of secondaries (one tube of marigold yellow W&N that *didn't* dry up), a fresh tube of purple, and a combination of the Mistletoe Green and the ShinHan green. For shading and darkening purposes, I generally use a wash or light blend of warm browns (never black unless absolutely necessary), which are mostly sepia and umber watercolors. I can't say as I've had the pleasure of painting with oils; that was one class I missed out on due to transferring to another college. All in all though, the W&N have proven true for me, dry nice and flat, and blend well with the Cottman watercolors. - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East) E.Frank, Long Island NY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The SCA Scribes Webring: http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=thescascribesweb ICQ uin#: 40730792 AOL: kmcwhyte =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:50:24 -0700 From: "Eva Mehlhose" Subject: [scribes]: Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe Page Greetings all it is our great pleasure to announce the first edition of the Atenveldt Kingdom scribe page. Updates will happen often as it is still under construction. Please take a look at what the active scribes of these fair lands have accomplished. All levels of skill are represented, from novice first effort to advanced. All comments are cherished. Please reply off list to alexscribe@worldnet.att.net or miladyblade@yahoo.com Lady Alyssandra von Drachenskralle mostly known as Alex the scribe Aten Kingdom Signet =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:53:48 -0700 From: "Eva Mehlhose" Subject: [scribes]: Re: Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe Page Sorry, cat stomped over keyboard... link is at http://atenveldt.org or can be viewed separate at http://scribe.atenveldt.org Subject: Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe Page > Greetings all > it is our great pleasure to announce the first edition of the Atenveldt > Kingdom scribe page. Updates will happen often as it is still under > construction. Please take a look at what the active scribes of these fair > lands have accomplished. All levels of skill are represented, from novice > first effort to advanced. All comments are cherished. Please reply off list > to alexscribe@worldnet.att.net or miladyblade@yahoo.com > > Lady Alyssandra von Drachenskralle > mostly known as Alex the scribe > Aten Kingdom Signet > > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 02:29:13 -0700 From: Sheryl Knowles Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. > Most of my paints from college have dried up in the tubes, >since they haven't been used for commercial or hobby purposes since >graduating in '95. Unpeel the tube (with pliers if necessary) and use the dried paint as any other water-soluable cake of paint/pigment. My grandmother taught me that trick 40 years ago. Not as "quick" a mixer ingredient as "fresh" paint, but serviceable. In service, Teleri Tawel, West Kingdom =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:30:02 -0300 From: "Rick Gaigneur" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint, colors, and care. Greetings to the List! Like some of the others who responded, I use a lot of W&N gouaches. I also really like the Pelikan Designer Colours, which come pre-mixed in little baby-food sized jars. I bought mine almost fifteen years ago, and I'm still using many of them. They've pretty much all dried out by now, but can be easily reconstituted by adding a bit of water and occassionally some more binder, like gum arabic. I often mix the dried Pelikan powders with W&N as well, to get some colour mixes that neither manufacturer produces commercially. I also occassionally use Holbein gouache, particularly their Pearl Gold, which has a colour I'm much happier with than that produced by Winsor and Newton. Hope that helps... Master Aetheric Lindeberende, Shire of Lyndhaven, East Kingdom gaigneur@fundy.net or seneschal.nshores@eastkingdom.org http://user.fundy.net/gaigneur/ www.northernshores.org =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:19:16 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query - --part1_29.1a3f5856.28c8d1d4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/2001 8:11:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, excalibr@gatewest.net writes: > Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different > brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do > other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you > pick that particular brand. > I have been using a couple of Windsor Newton guache colors, but cannot afford many of them. I lucked out at Paul's art store about seven years ago and got a whole bunch of guache that they were discontinuing for about 75 cents per tube. This stuff is French and everything on the tube is in French, so I have no idea what it says. They are all still working quite well, but they do not blend as well as the Windsor Newton. I recently got the Reeves kits of guache and acrylic and have played with them a little bit. They both seem to work pretty well too. My choice for scrolls now, however is period pigments. I picked up a bunch from Master John at Pennsic last year and this year and find them much easier to mix on the scrolls and the colors are so much more vibrant. They are much cheaper than Windsor Newton, but you do have to be careful about the toxic issue with many of them. I would reccommend trying period pigments with either gum arabic or egg yolks or whites as the binder just to see how you like them. Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Marinus, Atlantia) - --part1_29.1a3f5856.28c8d1d4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/5/2001 8:11:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
excalibr@gatewest.net writes:


Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different
brands of watercolors and gouach.  What I would like to know is what do
other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you
pick that particular brand.


I have been using a couple of Windsor Newton guache colors, but cannot afford
many of them. I lucked out at Paul's art store about seven years ago and got
a whole bunch of guache that they were discontinuing for about 75 cents per
tube. This stuff is French and everything on the tube is in French, so I have
no idea what it says. They are all still working quite well, but they do not
blend as well as the Windsor Newton. I recently got the Reeves kits of guache
and acrylic and have played with them a little bit. They both seem to work
pretty well too.

My choice for scrolls now, however is period pigments. I picked up a bunch
from Master John at Pennsic last year and this year and find them much easier
to mix on the scrolls and the colors are so much more vibrant. They are much
cheaper than Windsor Newton, but you do have to be careful about the toxic
issue with many of them. I would reccommend trying period pigments with
either gum arabic or egg yolks or whites as the binder just to see how you
like them.

Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift, Marinus, Atlantia) - --part1_29.1a3f5856.28c8d1d4_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:59:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query I have a few tubes of W&N, but the bulk of my paint is Graham gouache. The main reason for it initially was that it was on sale, when the W&N wasn't, and since I had read favorable reviews I went ahead and bought it. It is very smooth, not grainy at all, and I am very happy with it. I started out using the French School Savoir Faire gouache, and I don't like it much. It's very hard to add water, even with a bit of oxgall to help, and it will *not* rehydrate. You'd have to grind it to powder and add more binder and water, and it's cheap enough that such a step is too much work. For gold I've been using a blend of Schmincke Gold Pearl and W&N gold, with a touch of Cad red. Someday I plan on acquiring more golds to play with, when I have money. Margaret FitzWilliam On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Greg Young/Jocelyn Wirth wrote: > Greetings to the list from Mistress Ainesleah, > > I subscribed to the list during Pennsic, and have been cheerfully lurking > since then. I'm a beginning illuminator (since March actually), doing > mainly insular work. And now I have a question for the list. > > Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different > brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do > other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you > pick that particular brand. > > I'm going to ask that people reply to the list, because I'm sure there are > other beginning illuminators out there who would also like to hear what > others are using. > > Just for reference purposes, I started off with Pentel Watercolors. Then I > experimented with Reeves watercolors and gouach, moving on to Lukas > Gouaches, Maimeri (Venzia and MaimerBlu - both with I like), and M. Graham > watercolors and gouach (I really like the watercolors). Yep, I've tried > lots - got to love 'Try Out Sets'. > > Thanks in advance for all the responses I hope to get :) > > ****************************************************************************** > Mistress Hermina Matilda de Ainesleah of Meredene Member # 19216 > HL Robin Arthur Kyrke, Esq.; Principality Archery Marshal Member # 28653 > Barony of Castel Rouge Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada > > Jocelyn Wirth and Greg Young excalibr@gatewest.net > ******************************************************************************Ä > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 09:12:27 -0500 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query - --=====================_415564750==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different >brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do >other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you >pick that particular brand. If I am using pre-mixed commercial paints, I use Windsor and Newton, as many of the scribes on this list. The reason I choose them is because the colors are consistent such as I have not found in other brands. I know that if I run out of Sap Green, for instance, in the middle of a project, if I go to the store and buy another tube of W&N Sap Green it will match perfectly. I do not have the same assurance or confidence with other brands. I know of people for whom this is true of W&N tubes they bought ten and fifteen years ago matching today's tubes perfectly. They also mix beautifully and have great color. Considering the number of pieces I can get out of one tube, I don't think the price is all that bad for the quality I'm getting. (You get what you pay for.) My personal favorite to use, however is powdered pigments. I mix them with gum arabic or glair (I haven't done egg yolk yet but I'll get there). I have been using powdered pigments for a few years and find them (compared to tube paints) to be easier to adjust, easier to get the color for which I am searching, easy to handle and great for longevity. I do still use tube paints, as many events are not friendly to powdered pigments (wind and all that). Cu Drag, Despina ps welcome to the list - --=====================_415564750==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different
brands of watercolors and gouach.  What I would like to know is what do
other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you
pick that particular brand.

If I am using pre-mixed commercial paints, I use Windsor and Newton, as many of the scribes on this list.  The reason I choose them is because the colors are consistent such as I have not found in other brands.  I know that if I run out of Sap Green, for instance, in the middle of a project, if I go to the store and buy another tube of W&N Sap Green it will match perfectly.  I do not have the same assurance or confidence with other brands.  I know of people for whom this is true of W&N tubes they bought ten and fifteen years ago matching today's tubes perfectly.  They also mix beautifully and have great color.  Considering the number of pieces I can get out of one tube, I don't think the price is all that bad for the quality I'm getting.  (You get what you pay for.)

My personal favorite to use, however is powdered pigments.  I mix them with gum arabic or glair (I haven't done egg yolk yet but I'll get there).  I have been using powdered pigments for a few years and find them (compared to tube paints) to be easier to adjust, easier to get the color for which I am searching, easy to handle and great for longevity. 

I do still use tube paints, as many events are not friendly to powdered pigments (wind and all that).

Cu Drag,
Despina

ps welcome to the list - --=====================_415564750==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:12:05 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: glair As anyone who knows me well will tell you - I can get a bit obsessive in my forays into playing with period materials. ;-) Last year I decided to do a comparison of glair made with store bought eggs and free range chicken eggs. There were some differences apparent immediately, but after aging them for a year (in my scribe box) the results are in ... The glair made from store bought eggs is clear, but yellowish in color. The tint is not enough to effect the paint. It is nicely fluid and acts just like water. There is a huge white mass inside the jar. At six months it reeked, now it just smells bad. The glair made from free range chicken eggs is clear in the jar with the exception of a small white mass. It was more fluid from the beginning, but the aging has made it even more so. It is also more brittle than the glair made with store bought eggs. The really remarkable thing about it is *It smells like fresh glair* :-) I plan on repeating the experiment as soon as I can get more eggs off of the farmer who gave them to me to see if the results are the same. Hope someone else finds this information useful ... or at least interesting :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:15:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth Blatt Subject: [scribes]: Re: wanted, middle english guru! At 10:28 PM -0400 9/5/01, Jean-Paul Blaquiere wrote: > >I want to do a few pieces of poetry I've found in carolingian miniscule >(cause that's what I *can* do) but haven't been able to find a good >picture of the odd characters ie, thron, the funny z etc. >anyone have any ideas where I could find some? > It might be a bit challenging, because sources will depend on the dates you have in mind. I don't have a specific resource to point you at to answer your question, but do have some suggestions about places you might start to look. Why I say "the dates you have in mind" is that caroline miniscule is a Latin script (used from the 8th to 13th centuries): so while it was written in England, it was not really for writing in the vernacular (this doesn't mean that a vernacular manuscript in caroline doesn't exist; but my familiarity with it is exclusively through its use as a Latin script). So to find examples of Old/Middle English characters in caroline may be rather challenging. If you can't find them, you can look to scripts used for the vernacular closest to the date you have in mind: the Lindisfarne gospels have interlinear translations and glosses in Anglo-Saxon which use thorns, for example; and the Domesday Book--written in caroline miniscule--lists place-names and personal-names which, while Latinized and heavily abbreviated, /may/ contain some of the characters you're looking for. There's a scanned image online at http://www.osl.state.or.us/lib/domesday/domes2.gif. But you may not even find it necessary to use the characters, again given the dates you have in mind: English scribes alternated between the use of th/thorn and g/y/yogh in manuscripts of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (early 1400s Middle English: sometimes they used thorn, sometimes th, and these could vary on the same page and even on the same line). Here's a couple bits of useful info on the introduction and use of the two characters (from the University of Alberta's manuscript studies pages, http://www.ualberta.ca/~sreimer/ms-course/course/eng-chrs.htm which mentions other characters peculiar to Old and Middle English as well): Thorn: borrowed by Old English scribes from the runic alphabet for a non-Roman, Germanic sound, now transcribed "th." The "th" combination was introduced into English manuscripts by French scribes in the Middle English period. Yogh: The form of the letter "g" in the Insular script commonly used in Old English manuscripts. In Old English, yogh is used for the sound of "g." In Middle English manuscripts, the shape "g" is introduced by French scribes, and the yogh-shape is maintained but with a change of value (the "y" of "yellow" or the "ch" of Scots "loch"). Old English dates are generally considered to be about 500-1100 and Middle English from 1100-1500 or so. Here are some resources discussing caroline miniscule (and providing examples of it, particularly in England): Bischoff, Bernhard. Latin Palaeography: Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Trans. Dáibhí O. Cróinín and David Ganz. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, in Association with the Medieval Academy of Ireland, 1990. Bishop, T. A. M. English Caroline Minuscule. Oxford Palaeographical Handbooks. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1971. Dumville, David. English Caroline Script and Monastic History: Studies in Benedictinism, AD 950-1030. Studies in Anglo-Saxon History 6. Woodbridge, Suffolk: Boydell and Brewer, 1993. Good luck! I hope you find what you need. Elianora Mathewes Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:14:33 -0700 From: "Rozanne" Subject: [scribes]: guache I have a question. Until I started doing illumination, I used watercolor. Everybody told me that guache was just like using watercolor but it is not in several ways. I get along with my W/N watercolors just great, but I fight with the guache. This might be because I had watercolor classes in college, but I've never had instruction on the secrets of using guache. I use W/N guache too, and I like the depth of the colors and their texture. The problem that I've been having is what the paint looks like when it dries out. It always looks kinda thick in some places and may crack a little (odd texture when dry) and I have trouble getting the color a nice consistent solid flat color. I've tried adding more water, which just messes up the color consistency more and I've tried adding differing amounts of gum arabic and it thins the paint out a little. The wet result may look consistent in color and texture but the dry result is not. I only have this problem with the larger areas of my illuminations, like the background field on the heraldic shield. The smaller illuminations, like celtic knotwork, etc. are fine. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to make the guache more consistent in texture and color for painting larger areas? Also, does anybody here use W/N calligraphy inks? I used to love my W/N ink, but now I'm beginning to despise it. I have half a bottle left and the ink is now thick and sticky and doesn't want to flow in any of my pens. Adding a few drops of distilled water should help that, right? I'm switching to hand grinding my own inks in the next few weeks. It would still be nice to know if anybody actually has any luck reconstituting W/N calligraphy ink. Thank you! Theophania d'Alexandre =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:40:30 EDT From: KATAKIRA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Inks (was guache) Theophania: My W-N inks in the big bottle got really ooky, too, so I started using the small ones. But after a bit, the same thing. So when I was in Toronto with some friends, we happened across an art store, where I found Dr. Marten's Acrylic Inks. Boy. Talk about smooth. Woo, baby. And color like you wouldn't believe! Solid black, just beautiful. And there are something like 60 colors, including metallics, in the collection. Now I get 'em at Pat Catan's Prizm Art & Design in Cleveland, or from Daniel Smith's Artists Supplies (on the web). I know they're not period--that they're plastic ink. But I'm comfortable with 'em. They're waterproof, don't fade easily, and clean off my pens in a heartbeat. And you can even 'paint' larger areas with them. Very cool stuff. Katarina Peregrine Gwyntarian, Middle In a message dated Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:13:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Rozanne" writes: > Also, does anybody here use W/N calligraphy inks? I used to love my W/N ink, > but now I'm beginning to despise it. I have half a bottle left and the ink > is now thick and sticky and doesn't want to flow in any of my pens. Adding a > few drops of distilled water should help that, right? > I'm switching to hand grinding my own inks in the next few weeks. It would > still be nice to know if anybody actually has any luck reconstituting W/N > calligraphy ink. > Thank you! > Theophania d'Alexandre > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:50:45 +0800 From: Jean-Paul Blaquiere Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: wanted, middle english guru! > On Sep 06, Elizabeth Blatt illuminated with a virtual scribe : > It might be a bit challenging, because sources will depend on the dates you > have in mind. I don't have a specific resource to point you at to answer > your question, but do have some suggestions about places you might start > to look. > thank you thank you thankyou. That sort of info isprecisely what I was after. I knew it was going to be difficult given ME and Caroline are slightly displaced in time but I was hoping :) /jp... - -- Jean-Paul Blaquière || Avatar of Computational jeanpaul@ichr.uwa.edu.au || Thaumaturgy Democracy is based on the premise that a million men are wiser than one man. How's that again? I missed something? -- Lazarus Long =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:01:48 -0700 From: "Richard" Subject: [scribes]: An exhibit you might be interested in ... Sept. 10 - Oct. 19, 2001: New Visions Gallery, Marshfield, Wisconsin USA AlphaMark, the international traveling calligraphy exhibition sponsored by the Association for the Calligraphic Arts (ACA), will be shown at New Visions Gallery in Marshfield, Wisconsin from September 10 to October 19, 2001. This first juried show by members of ACA opened in July 1999 at The Galt Museum in Alberta, Canada, and toured Ontario, Indiana, Michigan and Florida during 2000 - 2001. The show contains seventy-two calligraphic artworks, using letterforms as a primary design element.. These include ceramic, glass, metal, mixed media and handmade paper works. Fifty calligraphers from the USA, Canada, Japan and South Africa are represented. The ACA was founded to promote the general awareness and appreciation for the calligraphic and lettering arts through education and the exchange of information, ideas and resources. Its membership is open to anyone interested in the field of lettering arts. You can find more information at http://www.CalligraphicArts.org For exhibition information contact: New Visions Gallery, Ann Waisbrot, Director, 1000 N. Oak Avenue, Marshfield, Wisconsin, phone 715-387-5562. Inquiries may be made to ACA c/o Linda Renc, AlphaMark Director, phone 727-726-1954 or by writing ACA, 1223 Woodward Ave., South Bend, Indiana 46616. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello, and a paint query Hoo boy, I haven't even *heard* of most of the brands you mention. :) I use Winsor & Newton gouache simply because that is what is available around here, but I like them very much. (One store currently has starter sets of another brand available--I forget the name--but since I have most of the colors already, I haven't decided whether the nice wooden box is worth the plunge.) For those who use the powdered pigments (period or otherwise), how is the opacity? From what I understand, gouache differs from watercolor by the addition of some sort of clay that makes it opaque. Watercolor is basically just pigment plus binder (i.e. it's like premixed powdered stuff and gum arabic/glair), and it doesn't *do* opaque, not unless you apply it so thickly that your work acquires a texture like that of oil paintings. At least in my experience. Or is there some secret technique I don't know about? Martha Darach/Caid - --- Greg Young/Jocelyn Wirth wrote: > Greetings to the list from Mistress Ainesleah, > > I subscribed to the list during Pennsic, and have been cheerfully lurking > since then. I'm a beginning illuminator (since March actually), doing > mainly insular work. And now I have a question for the list. > > Since I started illuminating in March, I've tried a number of different > brands of watercolors and gouach. What I would like to know is what do > other illuminators use, which brands, and more importantly, why did you > pick that particular brand. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:59:58 -0400 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: guache It's possible that a different paper might be your answer. Either more absorbent or less absorbent, depending on what you are getting now. Less absorbent should give more play as it is resisting the tendency to soak up the water. It might even allow paint to spread out more evenly on a wetter application. On the other hand, it might also be more prone to having thin streaks if it is too well sized and too hot press. RanthulfR Rozanne wrote: > > I have a question. > Until I started doing illumination, I used watercolor. Everybody told me > that guache was just like using watercolor but it is not in several ways. I > get along with my W/N watercolors just great, but I fight with the guache. > This might be because I had watercolor classes in college, but I've never > had instruction on the secrets of using guache. I use W/N guache too, and I > like the depth of the colors and their texture. The problem that I've been > having is what the paint looks like when it dries out. It always looks kinda > thick in some places and may crack a little (odd texture when dry) and I > have trouble getting the color a nice consistent solid flat color. I've > tried adding more water, which just messes up the color consistency more and > I've tried adding differing amounts of gum arabic and it thins the paint out > a little. The wet result may look consistent in color and texture but the > dry result is not. I only have this problem with the larger areas of my > illuminations, like the background field on the heraldic shield. The smaller > illuminations, like celtic knotwork, etc. are fine. Does anybody have any > suggestions on how to make the guache more consistent in texture and color > for painting larger areas? > > Also, does anybody here use W/N calligraphy inks? I used to love my W/N ink, > but now I'm beginning to despise it. I have half a bottle left and the ink > is now thick and sticky and doesn't want to flow in any of my pens. Adding a > few drops of distilled water should help that, right? > I'm switching to hand grinding my own inks in the next few weeks. It would > still be nice to know if anybody actually has any luck reconstituting W/N > calligraphy ink. > Thank you! > Theophania d'Alexandre > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- VISIT RandyAsplund.com To see a Universe of art ranging from Magic: The Gathering to Star Trek and Medieval Manuscripts Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V7 #3 ***************************