From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V6 #21 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, August 28 2001 Volume 06 : Number 021 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Re: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Fantasy Scrolls (Formerly Re: Humorous Scrolls) [scribes]: re:scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls [scribes]: Resource help [scribes]: Re:Humorous Scrolls Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:50:52 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) In a message dated 8/26/2001 10:37:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sburnell@raex.com writes: > One person who seems to excell at funny scrolls that actually look so period > that you have to do a double take is Master Christofano. Yes, Christofano is indeed a "master" at combining silliness and period in illumination ... and making it look right. :-) At Pennsic I engaged him on the topic of humorous scrolls and he admitted that some of the wordings have backfired and caused hurt feelings. A little humor in the illumination doesn't seem to bother most, but the wordings are different. What seems humorous and is meant to lighten up an otherwise "boring" court or something that is designed to make the scroll more personalized to the recipient may actually hurt their feelings .... even if you think you know the recipient well enough. Eibhlin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:53:31 -0500 From: "Chiara" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) Please stop sending attachments to the list. Unfortunaly/Fortunately my mail system will not allow them and I never see what you send. :( There is an option in AOL that will send out forwarded email as text in the body instead of an attachment. I am assuming that this is what the problem is with your account. Sincerely, Franchesca Havas McKinney, Texas - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Fwd: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) > In a message dated 8/27/2001 9:09:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BRNDALSTON > writes: > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls Dear Caryn, While never on the throne myself, I've seen lots of others. After-the-fact advice is not something I like, but for others who may be in that position someday, my first words are: never allow yourself to be "presented with an item of business" in court without first knowing what it's about. As to suitability or schtick, we can argue back and forth about it. It was done in period (see Castiglione's "The Book of the Courtier" for his discussion of the appropriateness of food-fights), but the question is, should it be done today? Or as someone put it better, do we want courts to allow modern intrusions? I'll say briefly, that all jokes and humor are, at base, about breaking rules: dealing with what's forbidden, turning the tables on our friends (as a sign of friendship) or our less-than-friends (to put them publicly in their place). This scroll was a prime example, because it brought the forbidden modern world into court, and because it embarrassed the friends in the process. But I think more went on than here than just a funny scroll. Ideally, both royalty and public should have been in agreement on how to deal humorously with court matters. This implies that royalty and public should have been in agreement about what court should be about. Does the tone of court derive from the royalty -- "the king's word is law"? So is it the public's job to attend and respond appropriately? Does the tone of court derive instead from the audience? So is it the royalty's job to become entertainers for the public? I think royalty should involve the public more in what is planned for court, so that a partnership is established, rather than a subtle struggle for dominance. As for scrolls, I think all scrolls are lessons in how calligraphy and illumination should be done in the SCA. This scroll was no exception. Let me offer an example for comparison, and then I'll shut up. I once suggested some schtick where a person to be rewarded in court would receive a phony scroll first -- after announcement that the scribes had discovered exploding ink, and measures need be taken: asbestos gloves for the herald, clearing the first two rows, prominent fire extinguishers and water-buckets. The recipient would receive the phony scroll, only to have it torn from his hands with cries of "It's a bomb!" and the scroll would be plunged into the water-bucket, to emerge dripping and illegible, and as he contemplated the limp wad, those responsible would deny all thanks for having saved his life. Then the real scroll would be presented. The royalty liked the idea, but insisted on taken complete control of this affair. The props were badly set up, no preparatory announcement was given, and everyone talked so quietly throughout that only the first row understood what went on. Caryn, you seem to have wanted a serious court that emphasized the real Middle Ages, as spectacle, without becoming partners in this with your audience, such that the necessary knowledge was kept from you. That other set of royalty was willing to be entertainers, but likewise without becomeing partners with the audience, only while retaining control over events and keeping the necessary knowledge to themselves. - -- johannes v.n. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:08:53 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: humorous scrolls (warning--small rant enclosed) >>My question is, why would someone want to do that, or something similar? << I can't speak to the Muppet scroll, but I have seen a Dr. Seuss scroll done by Master Christofano that was done for an AoA recipient who was about 7 years old. I think that was appropriate for the recipient. Frequently, the "novelty" scrolls are done because someone knows the recipient well and thinks or knows that they'll appreciate it. I'm getting ready to do something like that myself when I get a chance to do another scroll. >>What place does it have in a medieval court? << This is something we've argued about on the list several times and I think that we've all agreed to disagree. Some people feel very strongly that no scrolls should be catered to the recipient except as they can conform to medieval illumination principals. Others, including myself, think that making a scroll geared to what the recipient would like and appreciate is a good reason for doing something that may not be 100% period, or in some cases even remotely period. But I do think that it's more important that the recipient like and appreciate the scroll since they have to live with it - in court, the Crown only has to deal with it long enough to present it. Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid "Oh Bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh." =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:15:20 EDT From: SWRDBABE@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls When I first put my posting up about the Muppet Scroll I did not know it would stir up this much of a Hornets nest. I do apologize to the wonderful scribe of the scroll for bringing it up. I guess I'm just very lucky, in Atlantia, I've very seldom come across a King or Queen that didn't have a sense of humor. Lets face it when you have a past King stand up on his throne to show of the dags in sleaves of his tunic and says "I'm Batman" and others that try to breakup the very long and could be boring courts with a little schtick you have to see where I know some of them might appreciate a little humor they didn't have to come up with so they don't have to feel like they have to entertain the populace. I know our Kingdom Herald would know to present something such as that without causing too much of an uproar if their Majesties requests the court be kept somber. It is in the way you read the scroll not just in the text. We are fairly limited to the texts in our scribal handb! ook and in the past year in work ing on the backlog I have done approximately 25-30 AoA scrolls not including the ones for recent courts. After a while calliging the same texts gets kind of repetitive and feels rather uncreative. I've been lucky enough to bring some individuality into them through the illuminations, but I fell in love with the idea of being able to be creative in the texts as well. Again to the scribe that did the Muppet AoA thank you again for showing such a beautiful scroll, eventhough some may not appreciate it. If possible I would love to have a copy of the text sometime to add my SCA inspiration book. Lady Daniela Schwartzhaupt =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:34:51 -0700 From: "Rozanne" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls > When I first put my posting up about the Muppet Scroll I did not know it would stir up this much of a Hornets nest. I do apologize to the wonderful scribe of the scroll for bringing it up> Lady Daniela Schwartzhaupt I thought I might add, for your benefit, that as a "new" calligrapher and illuminator and Herald...that I have found this string of conversation on the list VERY educational. In Caid our scrolls are not read out loud to the populace (such an arrangement would create Courts in excess of 3 hours) but there is much push for scrolls to be serious historical calligraphy and illumination, on vellum when possible. I must admit that I would probably produce more scrolls if I felt that I had more artistic freedom in illuminating them. I have a friend I would like to do a scroll for. She's nuts about mermaids and fairies so I created a beautiful original design (however it looks like early Art Deco) and I put it on the archival paper vellum. The friend that the Award is for would be thrilled with this. However, her husband wants a scroll for her that is on real vellum, etc.(this has not been commissioned, it's out of my pocket) Then my mentor brought up the fact that this would likely be presented at the final Court of a King and Queen who are very into Period. The mermaid/fairy illumination (while beautiful) might not be "smiled upon". So the beautiful scroll just sits on the shelf over my desk, designed, lined and ready for calligraphy. It is one of my favorite original illustrations, and it sits neglected because I'm worried about what everybody might say except for the person who would be recieving it. She would LOVE it. This string of conversation has really made me rethink the state of this neglected scroll. If other's can do Dr Suess, Winnie the Pooh, Muppets, Banana-rama, Pressed Fairies, etc...then I suppose I shouldn't worry so much about my mermaid/fairy scroll when I KNOW the recipient will be somewhere near misty eyed in joy everytime she looks at it, and she will be thrilled to recieve it, even if the illumination isn't period. The calligraphy will be. I must express my appreciation for you helped me to rethink this matter. It saved one of my designs, a lot of work that has already gone into this scroll (and I feared was wasted) and this woman has had an exceedingly difficult time lately and will be thrilled to unexpectedly recieve this scroll designed just for her. Much thanks to you, Lady Daniela! Theophania d'Alexandre =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:54:51 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Rozanne wrote: > So the beautiful scroll just > sits on the shelf over my desk, designed, lined and ready for calligraphy. > It is one of my favorite original illustrations, and it sits neglected > because I'm worried about what everybody might say except for the person who > would be recieving it. She would LOVE it. That's the heart of this whole matter: would the recipient want it or not? The King and Queen are ephemeral, but the scroll will stay on the recipient's wall for a long time. Please the customer, and you will have succeeded. Branwen ferch Emrys The Mists, the West =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:04:02 -0700 From: Karen Williams Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Rozanne wrote: > So the beautiful scroll just > sits on the shelf over my desk, designed, lined and ready for calligraphy. > It is one of my favorite original illustrations, and it sits neglected > because I'm worried about what everybody might say except for the person who > would be recieving it. She would LOVE it. That's the heart of this whole matter: would the recipient want it or not? The King and Queen are ephemeral, but the scroll will stay on the recipient's wall for a long time. Please the customer, and you will have succeeded. Branwen ferch Emrys The Mists, the West =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:19:36 -0600 From: anorathepain@juno.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls I have to admit I have learned so much from this line of questioning. I have also asked myself some serious questioning. After reading the last note <> <> I have to admit by cost alone I would not be able to scribe long if they asked this of us here in the Outlands. I also tend to do scrolls inspired by period works but are very much my own artwork. Also I had to ask myself why I do scrolls... and my answer is I love seeing the face of who receives the award. I don't do the scrolls for the crowns or for the populace. The crowns are giving the award the populace is giving support and I am giving a handmade scroll for the award winner to treasure. Maybe it's the trouble maker in me but if I know a mermaid and fairy scroll will be perfect for someone but my kingdom is very period I would write a scroll text very traditional and give here the scroll I know she would love. But that's me I do tend to thumb my nose at people in authority and traditions. Anora de Maledisant ~Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus~ ~Never Tickle Sleeping Dragons~ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:58:21 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls >> In Caid our scrolls are not read out loud to the populace (such an arrangement would create Courts in excess of 3 hours) but there is much push for scrolls to be serious historical calligraphy and illumination, on vellum when possible. I must admit that I would probably produce more scrolls if I felt that I had more artistic freedom in illuminating them.<< Speaking as another Caidan, I don't know why you would feel that you couldn't do a mermaid and fairy scroll for any award given in this kingdom. I think you're confusing a "push" to do things more seriously historical rather than a mandate to do them that way. There is no requirement in this kingdom that scrolls have to be strictly period and I can cite a lot of examples of scrolls that were either entirely unhistorical (the old Death Star scroll, Jill Blackhorse's AoA which had a strong fantasy element), or had humorous or non-period elements (David Fletcher's realistic wildlife scenes, Eowyn's "in joke" scroll for Adelaide which had numerous TV show references in the illumination, Bruce's flying pigs on Adelaide's pelican). You get the idea. The next scroll I'm planning to do will be heavy on the Disney ;-) I'm hoping to have it done by next Coronation. While I wouldn't recommend that a serious scribal student do *only* humorous scrolls, sometimes you gotta lighten up a little. The occasional one isn't going to irreparably mar your reputation as a scribe. Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid "Oh Bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh." =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:03:13 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fantasy Scrolls (Formerly Re: Humorous Scrolls) Somehow I wouldn't quite picture mermaids and faeries as non-historical. Mythological, aye, but there are also mythological creatures in heraldry... Be it a unicorn, a dragon, a mermaid, krakken, phoenix, hydra.... you get the idea. (While I am no herald myself,) I'm fairly sure that these creatures, while they existed in infamy through word of mouth during the dark ages, were thought of as _very_ real. Likewise, the folk tales about faeries, silkies, and even 'ol 'Nessy in Loch Ness were considered more than just legendary "back in the day". I would gather it depends on how deeply rooted your psyche is in suspending disbelief if even for a moment, to believe that faeries were just as real as fire breathing dragons, knights in shining armor, codes of chivalry and infamy that wove in and out of the minds of both the populace and the great thinkers of the Renaissance as we know it. While I am aware that this isn't *exactly* related to being humorous, but being creative.... This *IS* the Society for Creative Anachronism. IMHO, we as scribes create.... As I am somewhat certain that the scribes of those days had nothing themselves to go on but their imaginations and inspirations from whatever divinity or muse, so do we go on in the SCA, to be inspired, or inspire others, through mundane means or through historical (or hysterical) means. :) - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (An Dubhaigheainn, East.... where the baronial heraldry is a BIG white duck... try taking that one seriously) ;) E.Frank, Long Island, NY =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:54:54 EDT From: HRAFNASDOT@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: re:scrolls - --part1_13d.79d90a.28bc61fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/27/2001 4:11:34 PM Central Daylight Time, anorathepain@juno.com writes: > Also I had to ask myself why I do scrolls... and my answer is I love > seeing the face of who receives the award. I don't do the scrolls for the > crowns or for the populace. The crowns are giving the award the populace > is giving support and I am giving a handmade scroll for the award winner > to treasure. > I recently did three small 8 1/2 x 11 scrolls for our canton event. They were all historically based, but I use marginalia as the basis for my illuminations. Each one was different: the first was a child with a rabbit, for the children's A&S, the second was two thin running dragon's for the youth A&S, the third a more elaborate dragon, larger, with a background. All had versals with gold. I spent hours practicing calligraphy, which I've not done much of, to make them look right. I would say, all in all, I spent upwards for 40-45 hours painting, practicing, etc. I did this because I could not attend the event because of mundanities and wanted to contribute. I found out a week later, by someone not in the canton, that the scrolls had not been shown, announced, or given out at court. They were going to be mailed to the recipients, who have not even seen them. I have to admit I was very disappointed (to put it mildly) I don't think people who are not scribes realize how much of ourselves we put into these. Asa Hrafnasdottir Sermo datur cunctis, animi sapientia paucis. Speech is given to many, intelligence to few. - --part1_13d.79d90a.28bc61fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/27/2001 4:11:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
anorathepain@juno.com writes:


Also I had to ask myself why I do scrolls... and my answer is I love
seeing the face of who receives the award. I don't do the scrolls for the
crowns or for the populace. The crowns are giving the award the populace
is giving support and I am giving a handmade scroll for the award winner
to treasure.


I recently did three small 8 1/2 x 11 scrolls for our canton event.  They
were all historically based, but I use marginalia as the basis for my
illuminations.  Each one was different: the first was a child with a rabbit,
for the children's A&S, the second was two thin running dragon's for the
youth A&S, the third a more elaborate dragon, larger, with a background.  All
had versals with gold.  I spent hours practicing calligraphy, which I've not
done much of, to make them look right.  I would say, all in all, I spent
upwards for 40-45 hours painting, practicing, etc.  I did this because I
could not attend the event because of mundanities and wanted to contribute.

I found out a week later, by someone not in the canton, that the scrolls had
not been shown, announced, or given out at court.  They were going to be
mailed to the recipients, who have not even seen them.  I have to admit I was
very disappointed (to put it mildly)

I don't think people who are not scribes realize how much of ourselves we put
into these.

Asa Hrafnasdottir



Sermo datur cunctis, animi sapientia paucis.
Speech is given to many, intelligence to few.     - --part1_13d.79d90a.28bc61fe_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:17:58 -0700 From: "Laura F. Jenkins" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls I have to agree in large part with Tetchubah. While Caid does have a lot of rules (many of which are being eased out of the way currently) the style of the scroll is not mandated. So mermaids and fairies are fine. And because Caid does things a little differently, the tastes of the King and Queen aren't a big factor. (When backlog scrolls are presented, the texts are not read so there isn't the same risk of disturbing the mood of the court). And while we do have set texts for the scrolls, anyone who wants to come up with original wording, needs only get the approval of the Scribe Armarius. I think it is prefered that the words follow the general format of the words in the scroll text booklet (greeting, what award is being given, to whom and why, blazon (if required), heraldic achievement for the award and the date and closing phrase), but there is no reason that it can't be more original (as it says in the scroll text booklet, just discuss it with the Scribe Armarius). cheers, aliskye scribe segundo caidis lyondemre, caid Carolyn_Richardson@prosystemfx.com wrote: > >> In Caid our scrolls are not read out loud to the > populace (such an arrangement would create Courts in excess of 3 hours) but > there is much push for scrolls to be serious historical calligraphy and > illumination, on vellum when possible. I must admit that I would probably > produce more scrolls if I felt that I had more artistic freedom in > illuminating them.<< > > Speaking as another Caidan, I don't know why you would feel that you > couldn't do a mermaid and fairy scroll for any award given in this kingdom. > I think you're confusing a "push" to do things more seriously historical > rather than a mandate to do them that way. There is no requirement in this > kingdom that scrolls have to be strictly period and I can cite a lot of > examples of scrolls that were either entirely unhistorical (the old Death > Star scroll, Jill Blackhorse's AoA which had a strong fantasy element), or > had humorous or non-period elements (David Fletcher's realistic wildlife > scenes, Eowyn's "in joke" scroll for Adelaide which had numerous TV show > references in the illumination, Bruce's flying pigs on Adelaide's pelican). > You get the idea. > > The next scroll I'm planning to do will be heavy on the Disney ;-) I'm > hoping to have it done by next Coronation. > > While I wouldn't recommend that a serious scribal student do *only* > humorous scrolls, sometimes you gotta lighten up a little. The occasional > one isn't going to irreparably mar your reputation as a scribe. > > Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid > > "Oh Bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh." > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:24:19 -0500 From: Gwendoline Rosamond Subject: Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls Greetings, At 10:54 PM 8/27/2001 -0400, HRAFNASDOT@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/27/2001 4:11:34 PM Central Daylight Time, >anorathepain@juno.com writes: >>Also I had to ask myself why I do scrolls... and my answer is I love >>seeing the face of who receives the award. I don't do the scrolls for the >>crowns or for the populace. The crowns are giving the award the populace >>is giving support and I am giving a handmade scroll for the award winner >>to treasure. >I found out a week later, by someone not in the canton, that the scrolls had >not been shown, announced, or given out at court. They were going to be >mailed to the recipients, who have not even seen them. I have to admit I was >very disappointed (to put it mildly) I'm sorry to hear that. I think it's something of a crime when that happens. Sigh. >I don't think people who are not scribes realize how much of ourselves we put >into these. I agree with you completely! I'm really coming to the opinion that anyone who wants to give out scrolls be it royalty or event staff should have to try their hand at making one first so that they have an idea of what goes into them. Don't you wish we scribes could write the rules when it comes to these sorts of things? Cheers, Gwendoline =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:06:31 EDT From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls Let's see.... Out of the first 5 scrolls I did: The first one showed up, that one went fine (spent 3 days in the basement sweating over a celtic knotwork border, using a ruling pen to make the lines) The second I worked on most of during three nights at Pennsic War, by lamplight in the tent. He was a no-show. The third was a double-AoA.... Apparently a friend of the recipient had asked to do the AoA for the recipient and her husband, the Crown said 'okay', then forgot.... So as a result, myself and one other scribe wound up feeling somewhat deflated.... The fourth didn't show up because it was Rosh Hashannah (sp?) weekend, and didn't show up to the next local event for her either (belly dancing workshop instead of event). The fifth didn't show up.... You get the idea. I can understand people having mundane lives, but in the time that I've been scribing, I've seen some recipients' ears perk up and sneak away during court for unknown reasons to dodge being called onto stage (stage fright?), others not showing up on purpose, or worse.... when a herald *completely* botches reading the scroll (I'm not talking one or two mispronounciations on a 'cheat sheet', but a LOT), or is too quiet to hear over a bunch of noisy folk in the crowd around you. (Nothing quite so bad as poor accoustics and people walking into the hall with no regard for the quiet herald way at the front of the hall). Most of the people I know only go to court when they think they know someone they're familiar with may get an award. It's sad, in a sense, considering that there's a lot of work put into the awards and we don't get to see them all the time. A court pressed for time fairly recently took one of my best works, held it in the air for all of a nanosecond, and then passed it into the hands of a representative for the recipient (who was not there). *That* was a disappointing moment. About as bad as not reading off a scribe's name -- which kept happening last year with one herald in particular. *sigh* - --Lady Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East) E.Frank, Long Island, NY =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:06:39 -0500 From: "Margareta vanden Velde" Subject: Re: [scribes]: re:scrolls Don't you wish we scribes could write the rules when it comes > to these sorts of things? > Well, technically we can write anything we want, we're the scribes! =) It's just getting people to OBEY that is the problem. That saying about the pen and the sword is WAY off if you ask me.... =) My pet peeve with courts is the mangled names, I now put phonetic pronunciations on the backs of the scrolls (when I know the recipient, that is, but often I do) in 16-point letters (last scroll: Loo-CHI-yah Day En-ZEE-nas) so if the herald still gets it wrong at least there are no fingers pointing at me. Margareta vanden Velde Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:43:17 EDT From: SWRDBABE@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Resource help At the gathering, the scribe that did the muppet scroll also did one with snails (I think). I have an AoA that I have to have done within the next two weeks and the recipient is absolutely in love with snails and atleast 4 years overdue in getting her AoA. I don't remember the resource you stated for the scroll and I would love to do something similar for her. Is there anyway you could please contact me as soon as possible, or send me a scan of the scroll? Any and all help is majorly appreciated. Lady Daniela Schwartzhaupt =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:18:36 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Humorous Scrolls In a message dated 8/27/2001 11:15:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aliskye@pacbell.net writes: > I have to agree in large part with Tetchubah. While Caid does have a > lot of > rules (many of which are being eased out of the way currently) the style > of the scroll is not mandated. While AEthelmearc doesn't mandate a style of scroll, the Signet Office Policy, as published with kingdom law, does have some guidelines. Among them "Having accepted scroll assignments, you must do careful and authentic work, and complete and deliver scrolls in a timely manner." "They "look medieval" (like they came from a medieval manuscript rather than from the cover of a modern bodice-ripper or comic book). " At first, this might sound like AEthelmearc is full of stuffy scribes. Quite the contrary :-) The policy doesn't mean that humorous scrolls can't happen, just that a certain amount of medievalism needs to be maintained. Thankfully there are some wonderfully creative scribes here who excel at this kind of thing. Recently a most stunning Gothic illumination was shown to me. It wasn't until the scribe asked me if I recognized the scene from "The Princess Bride" that I realized it was something other than a copy of a period scroll. IMHO this type of creativity should be encouraged, not discouraged. Although I personally would not appreciate a silly scroll, I know many recipients who find them delightful. If in doubt about whether a humorous scroll would be appreciated or not, err on the side of caution and be serious. Eibhlin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:02:42 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Humorous Scrolls Dear folks, This has been interesting to read so far. I have two comments. First, what do we do as scribes? Kayleigh writes, "While I am aware that this isn't *exactly* related to being humorous, but being creative.... This *IS* the Society for Creative Anachronism. IMHO, we as scribes create.... As I am somewhat certain that the scribes of those days had nothing themselves to go on but their imaginations and inspirations from whatever divinity or muse, so do we go on in the SCA, to be inspired, or inspire others, through mundane means or through historical (or hysterical) means. :)" I have to answer, saying "we as scribes create" is really too narrow. It doesn't sound narrow, but it is. We as scribes should create for the ages. People a hundred years from now should be able to see our work and so understand something about what the SCA tries to achieve. Else why worry about acid-free paper and color-fast pigments? Instead, we tend to create on the fly, out of the goodness of our hearts, and the evidence shows we might take our own efforts seriously, but we don't take our results (historical or hysterical) seriously. This leads to my second comment, what does our work mean? Some folks have posted concerns about how seriously our efforts (and results) are taken by others. I have to say I agree, and have been concerned with this for a long time. Are scribes appreciated? Do royalty and recipients care? Can we make some rules? These questions are tied together in the nature of court in the SCA. While courts differ from reign to reign and place to place, there are some constants. One constant is that royalty are our official gift-givers, and scrolls are part of the gift of rank. Royalty use their authority to set a proper gift-giving environment at court, focussing on the recipient. Scribes participate vicariously in this gift-giving -- we make an object to go with the gift. Now, if we can successfully challenge our role as unpaid gift-makers subject to the setting of individual courts, we might then make some of the rules concerning how we are appreciated. But we have to choose to challenge that role. - -- johannes v.n. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V6 #21 ****************************