From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V6 #14 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, August 1 2001 Volume 06 : Number 014 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 12:18:00 -0500 From: "Muirgheal" Subject: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Good Gentles: I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom situation. What do you think? Yours, Muirgheal donn ingen Dhauid College of Windreach Midrealm _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:59:40 EDT From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class In a message dated 07/29/01 10:21:22 AM, muirgheal@somethingorother.com writes: << I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom situation. What do you think? >> Dear Lady Muirgheal, I would start by telling people to bring whatever kind of calligraphy pen they had at home; some (many?) of your students may have a pen from a previous class or an "art set" someone had given them. If people need to buy pens, I would suggest, were I in your place, that they buy dip. They can always get a cartridge pen or even use a good calligraphy felt-tip for practice if they are practicing in a location where a dip nib would be a problem. Luighseach nic Lochlainn, OL Dreiburgen, Caid =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Hillary Greenslade Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class > In a message dated 07/29/01 10:21:22 AM, muirgheal@somethingorother.com > writes: > > << I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming > semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus > cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to > which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom > situation. > > What do you think? >> > I would think the dip pen, definately. While the cartridge may be easier as no need to refill ink, you cannot get the nice sharp corners and thin lines with a cartridge like you can with a dip. Plus, they will have to learn to deal with the freer flowing ink, better to do so with a teacher's assistance on pen holding and manipulation. Cheers, Mistress Hillary Greenslade, OP Stargate, Ansteorra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:01:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class Actually, for beginners who may or may not get into this in a big way, the dip pen is by far the least expensive alternative. When I teach the same class to children, though, I use the chisel-tip felt tip markers (cleaning up my first ink spill taught me that, thank you very much), and show them the other kinds of pens. Graidhne On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hillary Greenslade wrote: > > > In a message dated 07/29/01 10:21:22 AM, muirgheal@somethingorother.com > > writes: > > > > << I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming > > semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus > > cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to > > which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom > > situation. > > > > What do you think? >> > > > I would think the dip pen, definately. While the cartridge may be easier as > no need to refill ink, you cannot get the nice sharp corners and thin lines > with a cartridge like you can with a dip. Plus, they will have to learn to > deal with the freer flowing ink, better to do so with a teacher's assistance > on pen holding and manipulation. > > Cheers, > Mistress Hillary Greenslade, OP > Stargate, Ansteorra > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:12:21 -0500 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class > > In a message dated 07/29/01 10:21:22 AM, muirgheal@somethingorother.com > > writes: > > > > << I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming > > semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus > > cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to > > which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom > > situation. > > > > What do you think? >> > > I would definitely go with the dip pen. It really isn't that hard to get used to, and a simple precaution such as putty to keep the ink bottle from tipping will prevent a lot of accidents. I have never been to a workshop where cartridge pens were used. The one time I taught - three weeks in a private high school - I was required to use cartridge pens. The headmistress thought the students could use them for homework afterwards. It was a disaster! The budget allowed enough for the least expensive Platignum set, which I thought would be ok because I'd used Platignum years earlier with no problems. I also bought Pendragon's calligraphic practive pads, which work beautifully with pigmented inks. But in class, three out of four of the pens refused to flow properly, and when the thin ink hit the paper it featherd dreadfully. There is one cartridge pen I do recommend: Pilot Parallel Pen. It's available from Paper & Ink Books, costs about $12.00, and comes in four sizes. It's a beautiful nib - very crisp edges, great hairlines, and can be turned on the corner for monolines. For practive paper, a cheap laser paper is usually heavily enough sized to take the ink without feathering. Corinna Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:58:43 EDT From: BRNDALSTON@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class - --part1_26.18fc57eb.28979503_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/29/2001 1:21:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, muirgheal@somethingorother.com writes: > I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming > semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus > cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to > which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom > situation When I teach calligraphy classes I provide the medium point felt tip markers for the beginners class, especially if my students end up being rather young. The markers give beginners a bit of confidence and are not quite so intimidating like the dip pens are. I have had really bad luck with cartridge pens clogging up, using a wide variety of inks and cleaners, and so I do not use cartridge pens anymore. If you don't want to use the markers, (which may be more expensive than the dip pens) then get the dip pens. They are more like the period feather quills and will start the students out right away in learning how to keep the opacity of the ink constant and are better for getting the crisp lines than markers are. To help with ink spills you can take a kitchen sponge and cut a hole in it the size of your ink bottle and set the bottle in the hole. This catches drips and stabalizes the bottle of ink somewhat. It is also a good idea to have a roll of paper towels on hand. So, I reccomend markers as my first choice, and dip pens as my second. Good luck with the class! Brandy (Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift) - --part1_26.18fc57eb.28979503_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/29/2001 1:21:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
muirgheal@somethingorother.com writes:


I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming
semester.  I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus
cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to
which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom
situation
When I teach calligraphy classes I provide the medium point felt tip markers
for the beginners class, especially if my students end up being rather young.
The markers give beginners a bit of confidence and are not quite so
intimidating like the dip pens are.

I have had really bad luck with cartridge pens clogging up, using a wide
variety of inks and cleaners, and so I do not use cartridge pens anymore. If
you don't want to use the markers, (which may be more expensive than the dip
pens) then get the dip pens. They are more like the period feather quills and
will start the students out right away in learning how to keep the opacity of
the ink constant and are better for getting the crisp lines than markers are.

To help with ink spills you can take a kitchen sponge and cut a hole in it
the size of your ink bottle and set the bottle in the hole. This catches
drips and stabalizes the bottle of ink somewhat. It is also a good idea to
have a roll of paper towels on hand.

So, I reccomend markers as my first choice, and dip pens as my second. Good
luck with the class!

Brandy
(Lady Brandwyn Alston of the Rift) - --part1_26.18fc57eb.28979503_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:26:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Martha Palotay Subject: Re: [scribes]: dip vs. cartridge for class In a message dated 7/29/2001 1:21:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, muirgheal@somethingorother.com writes: > I will be teaching a calligraphy class at my college this upcoming > semester. I was pondering the differing virtues of dip style versus > cartridge calligraphy pens, and wondered if anyone had any input as to > which would be better for beginning calligraphers in an informal classroom > situation If this is a 'mundane' class, and your aim is to get students interested, then you may want to go for the felt pens. Beginners are more likely to get nice results with them, and therefore they may be more likely to want to continue learning about calligraphy. Dip pens can be the next step, for those who want to learn more. I've used Sheaffer cartridge pens for years, and they work wonderfully for me. Of course, the first thing I do is get rid of the useless liquid they provide in the cartridges and refill them with ink. (Parker or some Sanford inks I got from my dad; he bought them before I was born, and they're running low, but I've never met a better ink. I especially love the 'dubonnet' color, a dark red which I've been unable to find from anywhere else. -Whatever ink you use, make sure it's made for fountain pens, otherwise you'll have a clogged mess.) The Sheaffer pens are pretty cheap, too, so for some of your more serious students, they may be a good choice. Naturally, if the class is for SCA-types, then dip pens are the only way to go, unless you get very fancy and get a bunch of feathers or reeds. :) YIS, Martha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: Monthly Administrivia Mailing This is the monthly mailing of the administrivia information for the scribes-digest mailing list. [Last updated on: Fri Jan 23 21:27:07 PST 1998] This is the Digest of the scribes mailing list. It is open for discussion of scribal arts including illumination, calligraphy, paper making, etc. The posting address for scribes (including the digest) is "scribes@castle.org". To unsubscribe, send email to "majordomo@castle.org" with "unsubscribe scribes-digest" in the body of the message. Problems and questions should be addressed to "scribes-owner@castle.org" as the list maintainer may or may not actually read the scribes mailing list. This mailing list is not an official list of the Society for Creative Anachronism, any College of Scribes, or the Barony of Calafia. Other SCA-related lists sponsored at castle.org are: scribes@castle.org antir_apprentices@castle.org antir_scribes@castle.org cal_cooking@castle.org caid_scribes@castle.org caid_heralds@castle.org caid_bluefeather@castle.org tanwayour@castle.org wyewood@castle.org No spam is allowed on this list. Spammers will be deleted without warning. If you get this far in this message, there are two requests the list maintainer would make: 1. Please send a note of introduction to the scribes list. Say who you are, where you are, and what your scribal interests are. and 2. Please sign your notes to this list with your society name and branch, along with your mundane name and location. Enjoy! Your list maintainer is: Lord Christopher Thomas mka Lee Damon Calafia, Caid San Diego, CA =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V6 #14 ****************************