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Subject: scribes digest V6 #3
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scribes digest        Wednesday, June 27 2001        Volume 06 : Number 003



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 [scribes]: 19 June Soth Ms sale -- pics still on web
 [scribes]: Re: Reply to Letter of Marque request for text
 Re: [scribes]: Letter of Marque
 Re: [scribes]: Letter of Marque
 [scribes]: Supply Questions
 Re: [scribes]: Supply Questions
 Re: [scribes]: Supply Questions - liquid gold?
 [scribes]: looking for examples of a French Master
 [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master
 [scribes]: AoA in Latin?
 [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master
 [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls
 RE: [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master
 RE: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls
 Re: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls
 [scribes]: Interkingdom scribes

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:38:00 -0500
From: Julie Watkins <julifolo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: 19 June Soth Ms sale -- pics still on web

... but maybe not for long.

Folo showed me an out-of-date notice about this sale, so I went to the
Sotheby website & found it.

These pages take a long time to load. Maybe 1-3 mins from my work 
computer and they wouldn't load on my home computer last weekend 
<grumble> so I had to come in 2 hours early to grab it here before 
I started library work.

There are 36 lots, or 4 catalogue summary pages which (thankfully) have
thumbnails, 10 per page, makes it easier to pick and chose.

I'm quoting my string of web addresses to get to the summary pages,
if you can't go directly to that page.

Some nice stuff here. Several Books of Hours. Some simple humanist 
white vine initials, and a few early gothic red and blue filligree
initials. There is a catalog still listed as available 
for $43. With only 36 pieces, it's probably skinny. There's
probably multiple illustrations in the paper catalog; the website
has only 1 photo each. I think that's including shipping.

(cut & paste the long addresses to make one line)

http://www.sothebys.com/

http://www.sothebys.com/cgi-bin/osform.exe/sothebys?osforms_template=calendarWeek.oft
	(chose last week)

http://www.sothebys.com/cgi-bin/osform.exe/sothebys?osforms_template=calendarWeek.oft&Start=992840401350

		chose this sale:
A Second Selection of Illuminated Manuscripts from c. 1000 to c. 1522: 
the Property of Mr. J.R. Ritman Sold for the Benefit of the Bibliotheca 
Philosophica Hermetica, Amsterdam    19-Jun-2001 [London] 

http://www.sothebys.com/cgi-bin/osform.exe/sothebys?osforms_template=viewEvent.oft&EventOID=2|21657668

	view online catalogue text --> shows the thumbnails

http://www.sothebys.com/cgi-bin/osform.exe/lotservice?osforms_template=CatalogueResult.oft&sale_num=L01324

- -- Barbary de Folo
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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:53:18 -0400
From: Elizabeth Blatt <heb4@cornell.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: Reply to Letter of Marque request for text

- --============_-1218638092==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 11:20 AM -0400 6/25/01, BRNDALSTON@aol.com wrote:
>But you think I could get away with a ship at the top or bottom
>flying the Atlantian Flag?

How about incorporating it into one of the first initials (the A or 
the K)?   Major initials were a prime place for decoration on late 
16th/early 17th century documents of which I've seen images, so it 
would fit there.

I agree that the seals and such--the analogy to Letters Patent--is a 
good one; my only suggestion is to orient the text rectangularly, 
landscape-wise. Private letters of the late 16th century were 
oriented vertically (an upright sheet of 8x10 paper, frex); but 
government documents  followed Chancery formats established in prior 
centuries, which were themselves based on early letter-writing 
patterns.  Early letters in the Middle Ages were typically longer 
from side to side than from top to bottom; and the 
width-versus-height aspect is something you can still see evident in 
official government documents in the 17th century, quite a while 
after everyday uses followed a different orientation.

This is from the early 19th century, and is thus many centuries past 
period, but as an image of a letter of marque I think it might be 
useful: http://www.maritime-scotland.com/denmarq.html  Here's another 
from the same period: 
http://navylibrary.nhc.navy.mil/Special_collections/Manuscript_files/Letter_marque.manu.html

You can see that these still displays a landscape orientation; and is 
not at all decorated: not because decoration is unknown from 
documents of the 19th century, but because it is a functional piece 
of paper that is expected will see a lot of use, 
folding/unfolding/rough weather, etc.

Hope this info helps!

Elianora Mathewes
- --============_-1218638092==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Reply to Letter of Marque request for
text</title></head><body>
<div>At 11:20 AM -0400 6/25/01, BRNDALSTON@aol.com wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">But you think I could get away with a ship at the top
or bottom</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">flying the Atlantian Flag?</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>How about incorporating it into one of the first initials (the A
or the K)?&nbsp;&nbsp; Major initials were a prime place for
decoration on late 16th/early 17th century documents of which I've
seen images, so it would fit there.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I agree that the seals and such--the analogy to Letters
Patent--is a good one; my only suggestion is to orient the text
rectangularly, landscape-wise. Private letters of the late 16th
century were oriented vertically (an upright sheet of 8x10 paper,
frex); but government documents&nbsp; followed Chancery formats
established in prior centuries, which were themselves based on early
letter-writing patterns.&nbsp; Early letters in the Middle Ages were
typically longer from side to side than from top to bottom; and the
width-versus-height aspect is something you can still see evident in
official government documents in the 17th century, quite a while
after everyday uses followed a different orientation.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This is from the early 19th century, and is thus many centuries
past period, but as an image of a letter of marque I think it might
be useful: http://www.maritime-scotland.com/denmarq<span
></span>.html&nbsp; Here's another from the same period:
http://navylibrary.nhc.navy.mil/Special_<span
></span>collections/Manuscript_files/Letter_marqu<span
></span>e.manu.html</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>You can see that these still displays a landscape orientation;
and is not at all decorated: not because decoration is unknown from
documents of the 19th century, but because it is a functional piece
of paper that is expected will see a lot of use,
folding/unfolding/rough weather, etc.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hope this info helps!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Elianora Mathewes</div>
</body>
</html>
- --============_-1218638092==_ma============--
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:32:07 -0500 (EST)
From: john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Letter of Marque

Dear folks,

Lady Brandwyn wished to know something about the text and decoration of
letters or marque in period. Lord Kristoff writes:

"...from those I have seen and what (little) research I'd done, they
tended to be fairly simple letters but heavy on the "authentication" (i.e.
seals and stamps). Remember, they were to be carried by the Privateer and
would be inspected at most ports and by passing (friendly) warships. The
Society owns I've seen tend to look very much like Patents/Letters of Arms
- -- certainly a very pronounced Kingdom element (arms, supporters, ships
flying Kingdom ensigns, etc). Personally, since it will be a scroll to be
displayed proudly by the Captain, I'd make it a nice patent-like scroll,
complete with seals and ribbons."

As with everything we do as scribes for the SCA, we take period sources
and use them as guides to meet our own needs. Were one to try to be period
about letters of marque, a scribe would first need to think of them as
legal documents, much like passports today. I cannot speak beyond this on
what letters of marque would look like. But my knowledge of legal
documents in period is a little broader, and this would tell me that such
a document would be:

(1) long on text
(2) short on decoration
(3) heavy on authentication, as Lord Kristoff maintains.

But certainly they would be folded away with the most valuable papers, and
kept at hand in case they papers had to be destroyed or saved from 
sinking. I doubt that _in period_ they would be displayed proudly (and
certainly not framed). We of course do things a little differently.

Lady Branwen further writes,

> Thanks for the information. I figured there wasn't much in the way of 
> pictures. But you think I could get away with a ship at the top or bottom 
> flying the Atlantian Flag? The one I have done, I did in blue and white 
> lettering forming the Atlantian badge. I have never done one with seals, 
> mmmm... sounds like fun!

As to seals: properly, a document was folded up along the bottom edge 
about two inches, and for each seal a strip of parchment or a cord was run
through the folded edge. The seal was not stuck to the document, but
attached to the appending strip or cord.
As to ship illustrations: I've always liked the heraldic representation of
the arms of Macdonald (?) in Fox-Davies' book on heraldry, in which he
shows a dromond or galley, with nicely curved keel, bearing a rather
shield-shaped sail which bears the arms. It would make a very nice
illustration for the initial letter.
 
> Here is the text that Their Majesties, Havordh and Mary-Grace, King and Queen 
> of Atlantia, gave to the scribes for Their letters of marque:
> 
> AUTHORITY TO OPERATE UNDER THE ATLANTIAN LETTER OF MARQUE
>       Know all that see these words that Their Majesties, Havordh and 
> Mary-Grace, King and Queen of Atlantia, being duly informed of Our subject's 
> prowess and good deeds in Our name, do charge Our subject, _________________ 
> with the defense of Our fair shores. We do grant this authority under Our 
> Letter of Marque, issued April 7, AS XXXV. With these duties We grant the 
> honor of wearing the Privateer's Scarf and flying the flag of the Atlantian 
> Privateers over those ships and encampments operating under the Letter of 
> Marque.
>       Done this _________ day of ______, A.S. XXXVI.
> Havordh, Rex     Mary-Grace, Regina

For a good compendium of Letters of Marque, try R.G. Marsden, ed.
Documents Relating to the Law and Custom of the Sea. (London: 1916).

Compare the above wording to a Letter of Marque from Henry IV of England,
1405, on line at:
"
http://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/history/Documents/War/Navy1/1405-Marque.htm
"

Or to a French text, from 1693, at:
"http://www.hillsdale.edu/dept/History/Documents/War/Navy2/1693-Marque.htm"

Or to a contemporary English text, from 1695, at:
"http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/5213/engl1695.htm"
Full image of the actual document at:
"http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/lennon/897/images/Letter.jpg"

Or to a Canadian text from 1812, at:
"http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/yourown.html"

Or to the American text from 1814, at:
"http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio3/marque.htm"

- -- johannes v.n. 

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible         
warning." -- Cathering Aird


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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:09:39 EDT
From: KATAKIRA@aol.com
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Letter of Marque

Greetings all--

I have seen several period letters of marque, and they are not particularly decorated in the sense of carrying lots of illuminations or illustrations.

However, one would see many calligraphic flourishes on a marque (and on other legal documents), and it can be argued that more 'important' a given voyage (or legal issue) was, the more elaborate the flourishes.

One would see the embellishment on the beginning capital, and then lesser flourishing on the ruler's name, the country of origin, and a bit less flourish on inital paragraph letters--if the marque takes that form.

One might see a painted coat of arms for the country of origin, but this seems rather rare (I've seen between 250-500 LoM, and only a handful--less than a dozen with this treatment.) The LoM that I've seen are from England, France and Spain, within period. Just post period, and reaching into the 19th century, I've seen LoM from the US (mostly War of 1812), Portugal, Russia and Norway.

Most LoM were indeed kept in a strongbox in the captain's quarters. That's why one often reads in reference to boarded ships that the victors were given the captain's "weapons and letters"--his sword, axe, gun (if applicable), pike, and the paperwork from his ruler and sponsor that showed he was, indeed, entitled to his ship. These papers would include the LoM if so granted to the captain.

Often, when ships were ransomed, it wasn't uncommon for the ransomers to show this paperwork, proving they had the ship.
- ---------------

That said, I think that borrowing the style of a traditional letter, and adding some SCA touches as discussed is very cool. It looks back to the historical roots, yet serves a Societal purpose. Who knows, maybe this project can launch a whole new field of nautical research and arts in the Society!

Katarina Peregrine
Gwyntarian, Middle

In a message dated Mon, 25 Jun 2001  3:34:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, john j cash <jcash@indiana.edu> writes:

<< Dear folks,

Lady Brandwyn wished to know something about the text and decoration of
letters or marque in period. Lord Kristoff writes:

"...from those I have seen and what (little) research I'd done, they
tended to be fairly simple letters but heavy on the "authentication" (i.e.
seals and stamps). Remember, they were to be carried by the Privateer and
would be inspected at most ports and by passing (friendly) warships. The
Society owns I've seen tend to look very much like Patents/Letters of Arms
- -- certainly a very pronounced Kingdom element (arms, supporters, ships
flying Kingdom ensigns, etc). Personally, since it will be a scroll to be
displayed proudly by the Captain, I'd make it a nice patent-like scroll,
complete with seals and ribbons."

As with everything we do as scribes for the SCA, we take period sources
and use them as guides to meet our own needs. Were one to try to be period
about letters of marque, a scribe would first need to think of them as
legal documents, much like passports today. I cannot speak beyond this on
what letters of marque would look like. But my knowledge of legal
documents in period is a little broader, and this would tell me that such
a document would be:

(1) long on text
(2) short on decoration
(3) heavy on authentication, as Lord Kristoff maintains.

But certainly they would be folded away with the most valuable papers, and
kept at hand in case they papers had to be destroyed or saved from 
sinking. I doubt that _in period_ they would be displayed proudly (and
certainly not framed). We of course do things a little differently.

Lady Branwen further writes,

> Thanks for the information. I figured there wasn't much in the way of 
> pictures. But you think I could get away with a ship at the top or bottom 
> flying the Atlantian Flag? The one I have done, I did in blue and white 
> lettering forming the Atlantian badge. I have never done one with seals, 
> mmmm... sounds like fun!

As to seals: properly, a document was folded up along the bottom edge 
about two inches, and for each seal a strip of parchment or a cord was run
through the folded edge. The seal was not stuck to the document, but
attached to the appending strip or cord.
As to ship illustrations: I've always liked the heraldic representation of
the arms of Macdonald (?) in Fox-Davies' book on heraldry, in which he
shows a dromond or galley, with nicely curved keel, bearing a rather
shield-shaped sail which bears the arms. It would make a very nice
illustration for the initial letter.
 
> Here is the text that Their Majesties, Havordh and Mary-Grace, King and Queen 
> of Atlantia, gave to the scribes for Their letters of marque:
> 
> AUTHORITY TO OPERATE UNDER THE ATLANTIAN LETTER OF MARQUE
>       Know all that see these words that Their Majesties, Havordh and 
> Mary-Grace, King and Queen of Atlantia, being duly informed of Our subject's 
> prowess and good deeds in Our name, do charge Our subject, _________________ 
> with the defense of Our fair shores. We do grant this authority under Our 
> Letter of Marque, issued April 7, AS XXXV. With these duties We grant the 
> honor of wearing the Privateer's Scarf and flying the flag of the Atlantian 
> Privateers over those ships and encampments operating under the Letter of 
> Marque.
>       Done this _________ day of ______, A.S. XXXVI.
> Havordh, Rex     Mary-Grace, Regina

For a good compendium of Letters of Marque, try R.G. Marsden, ed.
Documents Relating to the Law and Custom of the Sea. (London: 1916).

Compare the above wording to a Letter of Marque from Henry IV of England,
1405, on line at:
"
http://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/history/Documents/War/Navy1/1405-Marque.htm
"

Or to a French text, from 1693, at:
"http://www.hillsdale.edu/dept/History/Documents/War/Navy2/1693-Marque.htm"

Or to a contemporary English text, from 1695, at:
"http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/5213/engl1695.htm"
Full image of the actual document at:
"http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/lennon/897/images/Letter.jpg"

Or to a Canadian text from 1812, at:
"http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/yourown.html"

Or to the American text from 1814, at:
"http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio3/marque.htm"

- -- johannes v.n. 

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible         
warning." -- Cathering Aird


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 >>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:05:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lakehead Student <malin_faierwood@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Supply Questions

Greetings all,

I'm trying to find out where I can purchase a few
items...any help would be appreciated.

pergamenata
papyrus
books of hours

Thanks.

Malin

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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:49:06 -0500
From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" <uncial@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Supply Questions

Malin wrote:

> I'm trying to find out where I can purchase a few
> items...any help would be appreciated.
>
> pergamenata
> papyrus
> books of hours

Go to www.cynscribe.com.  It's a listing of suppliers, artists, associated
crafts, etc. etc. Whatever you need, that's the first place to look for a
supplier.  For the items you named, I suggest John Neal Bookseller or Paper
& Ink Arts.

Corinna
Midrealm

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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mercurio Ekaterin <ekaterin@sfsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Supply Questions - liquid gold?

Dear friends,

Thank you so much for the wonderful reference.  The site has so much info!
I would like recommendation for what's been called 'liquid gold' by some.
I am not sure what it is (acrylic? gouache? ink?) and which brand(s) and
colours(s) were tried and true for our illumination purposes.

My own tube of gold acrylic has been more than disappointing as it does
not work well into a good consistency.  I use a fine brush and it gels at
the tip and paper too quickly for an even surface.
Water-soluable/washable products preferred.  I know there was a German
product but could not remember its manufacturer....

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Much obliged for your help.

Yours,
Mercurio Ekaterin


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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: abbondanza <delacroi29@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: looking for examples of a French Master

Greetings on this fine summer evening:>

I am looking for examples and reference materials for a 14th
Century French Painter or ~School~ called Beauciceaut (ph pron-
Booseeko). This is for a Chivalry scroll due in two months,
HELP!!!!!!

In service,
THL Antoinette de la Croix
Aethelmearc

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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:33:42 -0400
From: Elizabeth Blatt <heb4@cornell.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master

At 09:36 PM 6/26/01, you wrote:
>I am looking for examples and reference materials for a 14th
>Century French Painter or ~School~ called Beauciceaut (ph pron-
>Booseeko).

It's the Boucicaut Master in whom you're interested; a source you probably 
have which mentions him is Christopher de Hamel's _A History of Illuminated 
Manuscripts_.  Although he worked in Paris, he is considered to demonstrate 
more northern influences in his work (he's early 15th century).

The name comes from a Book of Hours produced by him for Marechal de 
Boucicaut.  There are plates in de Hamel, and a plate in Pacht's _Book 
Illumination in the Middle Ages_.  His style is thought similar to that of 
the early work by the Bedford Master; plates of the Bedford Master's work 
are in Backhouse's _The Illuminated Manuscript_.

He's a fairly well-known and influential illuminator; if you do a 
periodicals search on his name, you'll turn up some further resources, 
should you need them.

My home connection's been flaking out if I try to access websites, but if 
you need some further pointers to resources tomorrow, let me know sometime 
before 4.30pm and I'll try to sleuth out a few for you from my campus 
connection.

Good luck!
Elianora Mathewes
Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE

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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:36:10 EDT
From: MiLadyGbr@aol.com
Subject: [scribes]: AoA in Latin?

Sorry to take up the time, I know this question gets asked frequently, but I need AoA text in latin. Anyone have a web site I can go to?
Thanks,
Gabrielle
Polaris Signet
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:43:23 -0400
From: Elizabeth Blatt <heb4@cornell.edu>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master

>My home connection's been flaking out if I try to access websites, but if 
>you need some further pointers to resources tomorrow, let me know sometime 
>before 4.30pm and I'll try to sleuth out a few for you from my campus 
>connection.

I should clarify this:  sleuth via web-based periodical databases Cornell 
has subscriptions to, which have access restrictions to folks not accessing 
via a campus computer or verification system.

Hope this helps,
Elianora Mathewes
Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE

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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kimberly Koch <sarapenrose@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls

Hi all,

In Ansteorra, we don't really have a process in place
that covers what to do if someone is getting an old
scroll that needs the signature of a former Crown.

How is this handled in other places? 

Do you track down the former Crown to get them to sign
a scroll? If so, what do you do if that Crown is
inactive, has moved, or heaven forbid, has passed
away? Do you forge their name? If the latter, how do
you get permission to do that? Do you get the current
Crown to sign instead of the Crown who granted the
award? 

I'm very interested in hearing how other kingdoms
handle this. I started out with the brilliant idea
(ha) that I would collect signatures from as many of
the royals as possible, keep them in the signet files,
and then copy them as necessary to requested scrolls.
However, after conversation with some of the Roses, I
discovered that many of them are *very* particular
about other people signing on their behalf. 

At the moment, I am tracking people down for their
signatures, but it's a hugely impractical system.

Warm regards,
Countess Sara Penrose
Ansteorran Star Signet






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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:18:26 -0500
From: "Hufeld, Sheila" <Sheila@exchange1.mlb.ilstu.edu>
Subject: RE: [scribes]: Re: looking for examples of a French Master

Elizabeth
You are actually looking for the Boucicaut Master (Jean Le Maingre de
Boucicaut,  d.1421).
 You might try the following book:

    Meiss, Millard.  "French painting in the time of Jean de Berry; the
Boucicaut master". London, Phaidon, 1968.  ISBN:  71481346X     	OCLC
ID No.: 00014405
          
                                  
> >I am looking for examples and reference materials for a 14th
> >Century French Painter or ~School~ called Beauciceaut (ph pron-
> >Booseeko).
> 
> 
	Lady Eithne ni Cheallaigh
	Baile na Scolairi/Midlands
	Middle Kingdom
	smhufel@ilstu.edu

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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:29:42 -0400
From: LINDA PANCRAZIO <LPANCRAZIO@cmnc.com>
Subject: RE: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls

Greetings Countess Sara,

Atlantia uses a confirmation statement when the bestowing Crown can not be
located or has not explicitly released their signature to the office.

We do have one set of Royals who have passed away, for those awards I give
the recipient the choice of having the scroll unsigned (because some of them
feel very strongly about this) or using the confirmation statement.

Our confirmation statement says:  "Confirmed this <day> day of <month>,
[A.S./Anno Societatis] <year>, in the court of <King> and <Queen> (in Our
<branch>)."  This is flexible as are all our texts - as long as it says what
it's supposed to say it's fine.  It goes between the regular Corroboration
and the signature block - it would then be signed by the current Crown.

http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/handbook/standards.htm

Geva
Atlantian Clerk Signet


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kimberly Koch [mailto:sarapenrose@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:59 AM
> To: scribes@castle.org
> Subject: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> In Ansteorra, we don't really have a process in place
> that covers what to do if someone is getting an old
> scroll that needs the signature of a former Crown.
> 
> How is this handled in other places? 
> 
> Do you track down the former Crown to get them to sign
> a scroll? If so, what do you do if that Crown is
> inactive, has moved, or heaven forbid, has passed
> away? Do you forge their name? If the latter, how do
> you get permission to do that? Do you get the current
> Crown to sign instead of the Crown who granted the
> award? 
> 
> I'm very interested in hearing how other kingdoms
> handle this. I started out with the brilliant idea
> (ha) that I would collect signatures from as many of
> the royals as possible, keep them in the signet files,
> and then copy them as necessary to requested scrolls.
> However, after conversation with some of the Roses, I
> discovered that many of them are *very* particular
> about other people signing on their behalf. 
> 
> At the moment, I am tracking people down for their
> signatures, but it's a hugely impractical system.
> 
> Warm regards,
> Countess Sara Penrose
> Ansteorran Star Signet
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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:34:12 -0500
From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" <uncial@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Signatures on old scrolls

Countess Sara Penrose asks:

> In Ansteorra, we don't really have a process in place
> that covers what to do if someone is getting an old
> scroll that needs the signature of a former Crown.
>
> How is this handled in other places?
>

In the mundane world, I fill in hundreds of certificates for certification
and training programs of all sorts.  If an old one is being re-issued,
replaced, whatever, the new one has the new signatures and date, and
underneath will say "originally issued " followed by the origiinal date.
Perhaps something similar could be done on scrolls - signed by current
monarch and noting "granted iin A.S. whatever in the reign of King
So-and-So"

Corinna
Midrealm

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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mary Haselbauer <mary_m_haselbauer@yahoo.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Interkingdom scribes

Hi all,
A while back we discussed how scrolls are produced in
different kingdoms. Was this collected anywhere on the
net that I could find it? Or did someone collect this
info and could easily send it to me?

Many thanks,
Slaine

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End of scribes digest V6 #3
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