From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #95 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 05 : Number 095 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Re:Scroll Containers Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs [scribes]: illumination blanks [was: Re: Scribal treatment continued] [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] [scribes]: The Glory of Preprints! :-) [scribes]: wax seal protocol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:04:46 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Scroll Containers FWIW A couple of years ago, my daughter - then 11, made some of the fabric covered ones for AEthelmearc. It was her first sewing project. :-) It's a great way to teach the basics of sewing. A lot of the fabric was donated from costumers... happy to finally find a use for those scraps that are just too pretty to throw away. My own case is just fabric covered cardboard ... but the fabric is a tapestry piece :-) It has lasted me through 4 years of abuse and has quite a bit of life left in it. Scroll carriers don't need to be fancy. In an emergency I will duct tape 2 pieces of cardboard together on one side, poke holes through each of the other 3 sides and thread a piece of ribbon through them to tie it shut. All totaled it takes about 10 minutes... if I have to cut the cardboard. I'd rather spend the time making something to protect the scroll than try to calm a recipient who just damaged their scroll. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:58:48 EST From: HRAFNASDOT@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs - --part1_71.ba6faa9.27e794c8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/2001 3:35:27 AM Central Standard Time, naiad@axion.net writes: > And overall, well, scribes are notoriously a secluded, hard to find lot. They > aren't the best communicators (unless they're pelicans) It's hard enough > dredging them up here. I don't know if I could drum up appropriate > enthusiasm > and get them to actually do other kingdom's scrolls. > > > I just got back from Gulf Wars and had the time of my life! I spent every > day at scribes point and enjoyed myself thoroughly. Thanks to everyone for > the chance to pitch in and allow me to paint. I did six original scrolls > (illumination only) and although they are my first, apparently the kingdom > that received them needed them desperately and were grateful for anything > we could do. I did not think I was "good" enough, but they have encouraged > me to continue. My area/kingdom has many requirements for orignal scrolls > and I have not been able to screw up enough courage to jump in locally, > yet. But I encourage everyone to do the exchange program, or find a an > area or style you like and keep on working - the satisfaction of knowing > you can contribute in any small way is tremendous. > > Thanks again to everyone at Gulf Wars scribes point! Asa Hrafnasdottir - --part1_71.ba6faa9.27e794c8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/19/2001 3:35:27 AM Central Standard Time,
naiad@axion.net writes:


And overall, well, scribes are notoriously a secluded, hard to find lot. They
aren't the best communicators (unless they're pelicans) <G> It's hard enough
dredging them up here. I don't know if I could drum up appropriate
enthusiasm
and get them to actually do other kingdom's scrolls.


I just got back from Gulf Wars and had the time of my life!  I spent every
day at scribes point and enjoyed myself thoroughly.  Thanks to everyone for
the chance to pitch in and allow me to paint.  I did six original scrolls
(illumination only) and although they are my first, apparently the kingdom
that received them needed them desperately and were grateful for anything
we could do.  I did not think I was "good" enough, but they have encouraged
me to continue.  My area/kingdom has many requirements for orignal scrolls
and I have not been able to screw up enough courage to jump in locally,
yet.  But I encourage everyone to do the exchange program, or find a an
area or style you like and keep on working - the satisfaction of knowing
you can contribute in any small way is tremendous.  

Thanks again to everyone at Gulf Wars scribes point!



Asa Hrafnasdottir




- --part1_71.ba6faa9.27e794c8_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:26:46 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: illumination blanks [was: Re: Scribal treatment continued] In a message dated 3/18/2001 6:39:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cygnus@madbbs.com writes: > 3. For whatever reason, I have trouble convincing people to do blanks > (although our wonderful Signet does get some). People like to know where > there scrolls are going. I can't imagine getting 100!!! (Although the > good Lady Keran has probably done 100 on her own!) Does anyone else have > this problem or just me? I agree, for the most part scribes do like to know as much as possible about a recipient before starting a piece. But there are many benefits to creating blanks to individual scribes and the kingdom. Blanks are a wonderful way to allow scribes who are too busy to take a current assignment to be able to work on things as time and circumstances permit. It's a great way to encourage new scribes or get extra practice ... without pressure or deadlines. For those more seasoned, blanks are great for trying out a new style, just for the fun of doing something different. Towards the end of a reign sometimes months can pass without many new assignments being available (That's not a complaint :-) Thanks Your Majesties) .... blanks are a great way to keep in practice, or vent some creative energy. It might surprise folks to know how many of the scrolls that go out in AEthelmearc courts were turned in as blanks or are from scribes who have built their own "stash". Some blanks are from first time scribes submitting a sample of their work, looking to be added to the scribal rolls. Some absolutely gorgeous blanks have even been turned in anonymously. There are also the extremely dedicated and prolific illuminators who create blanks, just because that's what they enjoy doing. :-) Pre-printed illumination layouts that are later hand painted are being used more and more often. Most recently as computer or photocopied pages, but previously as hand copied layouts. I have reused my own designs over and made my layout sketches available to folks who can't draw but want to try painting.... and I know other scribes who have done the same. It's a very medieval way of producing illuminated pages. One person draws the layout (sometimes this design is copied over and over), another does the calligraphy, another the gilding, someone else paints the backgrounds, whitework, portraits, etc.... each scribe works according to their own ability. As confidence and skills grow, so does the scribe. Eventually they are capable and comfortable doing all original work :-) Many of the folks I meet who want to do scrolls are scared at first because they think they have to do it all from the very beginning. Once they find out that they can do a little bit and work towards doing a whole scroll ... or not ... then they are more at ease. If anyone had told me even 5 years ago that I would be drawing, painting, and doing my own calligraphy ... not just in one style, but several, I would have told them to seek medical attention :-) ... but I did learn to do full scrolls on my own and not only can I do it, it's FUN. :-) I took it a little at a time and I still practice every opportunity I get, to improve. Had I not been prodded to create blanks to "get my feet wet" I doubt I would have ever pursued the scribal arts at all. Handing over the soapbox now..... :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:38:15 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] In a message dated 3/19/2001 11:59:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, HRAFNASDOT@aol.com writes: > And overall, well, scribes are notoriously a secluded, hard to find lot. This brings up a question I've had for years.... Heralds, exchequers, chroniclers are easy to track down even when they aren't actively working because you can see their badges. Is there a badge for scribes? Quite a few years ago I recall reading something about a scribes badge in "Pikestaff". All I can recall is it had a swan on it and was supposed to be non kingdom specific. I've never had any luck finding out more about it. Anyone have a clue??? I'm trying to come up with something to give all gentles who participate in the paint a blank scriptorium project I'm working on. So far all I have come up with is gold shells (play on shell gold). If there is something more specific for scribes, I'd love to use it. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:54:14 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. >>The "why not" in our case is a matter of pride, I guess. The Midrealm has done the original scroll thing for so long that it would be true "culture shock" for it to suddenly stop. My guess would be that Caid has always done the promissory thing??? Am I correct?<< Yes, you are. But Luiseach also failed to mention that just because we give promissories for *most* scrolls, there's no reason an original scroll can't be given out at the time the award is given. But that's sort of left up to the recipient (if they know about the award like they generally do with peerages) or to the friends of the recipient if *they* know and the actual recipient doesn't. The last 2 scrolls that I've done were done so that they could be given at the time of the award. I plotted with Eowyn to get Jamal's scroll done (always go to the spouse, as it were) since I knew she'd probably not have the time to do it herself. Mistress Astra and I plotted to get the Court Baroness award for Angelina, so when the Crown told me a couple of weeks in advance that it was going to happen, I spoke with Astra about it and we decided I'd do a scroll for it. Tetchubah =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:06:54 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Olwynn wrote: > >>No offence intended to anyone, but I know, from > > what I like to do for scrolls, that I would be very unhappy to do scrolls > > that were pre-prints. I would feel like I was doing a paint-by-number > > picture. Is there a chance that the reason that there is such a > > backlog and > > lack of scribes in the Kingdoms that do preprints is because people don't > > feel that they are actually doing or learning anything by coloring in a > > drawing and filling in the blanks in the text? Is there any sense of > > accomplishment when a pre-print is finished, or is it another chore out of > > the way so court can get on? I'm a professional engrosser free-lancing for a studio. Usually I only fill in a name with illuminated initials on an otherwise pre-printed - by computer - certificate. On the small percentage that require a more decorative border than simple ruled lines, it's also pre-printed, and I have to grit my teeth while trying to get the paint to stick to the toner. Do I like it? No. Do I feel any sense of accomplishment? Only because I'm paid. Would I do it as an unpaid service or hobby? Abso-bloody-lutely NOT!!! Corinna TreeGirtSea =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:24:11 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Actually, while the Caid scribe wordings are strongly preferred for use, there is no rule that they *must* be used. The handbook you saw is more in the nature of strongly suggested guidelines. I've never asked for permission to vary from them and I've never had anyone quibble because I didn't stick to the mantra, as it were. There are of course some basic rules - the wording must contain the recipient's name, the award, the date it was given on, the royalty's names. If it is an award that carries arms, the arms must be included in the illumination and the blazon in the text somewhere. However, the heraldry stuff is what really bugs me, more so now than many years ago. The minimum shield size in partiuclar is a pain in the ass, IMHO. I rarely actually do the arms as large as "required" any more because 99% of the time it interferes with the overall design of the scroll. In Caid, the Scribe Armarius works for Crescent Herald, however, and attempts to have Crescent reconsider these onerous heraldic guidelines haven't been particularly successful . Of course, Eowyn is partially to blame in this regard - the original handbook was a collaboration between her when she was Scribe Armarius, and Crescent Herald. It was considerably more flexible then but subsequent revisions (particularly the one Bruce Draconarius did) have gotten less so with regard to the heraldry requirements. That's what happens when you leave this sort of thing to a herald ;-) I think it's time for another revision, myself. I think our bigger problem is that we suffered a mass burnout many years ago when someone got the idea of doing an illuminated "book of ceremonies" for the kingdom. After that, many scribes dropped out of scribing and have never recovered. It's difficult to get people interested in scribing when you have only about a dozen active scribes in the kingdom. Tetchubah =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:52:14 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] Dear Eibhlin, On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 RenScribe@aol.com wrote: > This brings up a question I've had for years.... > Heralds, exchequers, chroniclers are easy to track down even when they aren't > actively working because you can see their badges. Is there a badge for > scribes? Quite a few years ago I recall reading something about a scribes > badge in "Pikestaff". All I can recall is it had a swan on it and was > supposed to be non kingdom specific. I've never had any luck finding out more > about it. > > Anyone have a clue??? I designed and submitted the East Kingdom Scribes badge. It is an ermine swan regardant (i.e. a swan with ink spots, guarding it's rear). I do not know what one does to receive the right to display it these days; back then, any scribe doing work for the East Kingdom Signet (regardless of kingdom) could use it. - -- johannes v.n. former Tyger Clerk, E.K. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:34:35 EST From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. In a message dated 3/19/01 10:32:03 AM, Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com writes: << Of course, Eowyn is partially to blame in this regard - the original handbook was a collaboration between her when she was Scribe Armarius, and Crescent Herald. >> Re: History of Scroll requirements in Caid Actually, it was me alone, making the rules we'd inherited from the West Kingdom (in the late 1970s) a bit more flexible. If I had it to do over, I'd have made the revisions more radical. I asked Crescent to agree with it when I was done, which Conrad obligingly did. It was only in later years (more recent history) that the sizes of the shields became Crescent's purview. If I were Scribe Armarius now, I'd change it. And please don't think that the scroll words are set in stone. They are suggested words for those who want to know what to write, and don't care to make up words themselves. We, as a kingdom, do not have a tradition of making up our own scroll words. But no one says a scribe cannot, and in the booklet, before the scroll wordings, it lists the parts that must appear (and I should hope that that list is not too onerous): - -- A greeting from the King and Queen, (with their names) - -- Name of recipient, - -- Name of award, - -- Blazon of arms (if it grants such) - -- and date awarded. Peerage awards also usually mention the achievement being granted, since at that level, it is really the new achievement that is being awarded, not the arms (which the recipient most likely already has by award (or grant). Eowyn Amberdrake, seeing through glasses fuzzily (Lasik surgery is a miracle, but now close vision, like to a computer screen, is difficult. But I'm not complaining) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:43:56 EST From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: scribes badge [ was Re: scrolls backlogs] In a message dated 3/19/01 9:39:07 AM, RenScribe@aol.com writes: << This brings up a question I've had for years.... Heralds, exchequers, chroniclers are easy to track down even when they aren't actively working because you can see their badges. Is there a badge for scribes? >> Caid has two scribal badges -- one for use as a flag or seal (Or, a seal (zalophus californianus) gules maintaining a quill fesswise distilling 3 drops sable, within a bordure embattled ermine), the other for use with signatures, etc. -- a quill embattled argent. But both of these are pretty specifically Caidan (witness all the embattling). I should think you could register something for your kingdom. Eowyn =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:59:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Haselbauer Subject: [scribes]: The Glory of Preprints! :-) Hi again, This is Slaine the Royal for Calontir and I am going to praise preprints again. Sorry to those who have heard this before. In Calontir right now, the AoA level awards are all preprints that are made anew each reign. The GoA and peerages etc are all original work. I can see where one might consider that painting pre-prints was like doing paint-by-numbers. The way I see it a lot of people are intimidated by calligraphy but like painting. They can paint to their heart's content. I provided scans of the painting I had in mind but let people do what they want. I even let kids try. I cost me very little to let people experiment. I learned so much from doing preprints that carried over to other work. I know of at least two people who said "Oh, I'll never be good enough to do scrolls." They played around with preprints and are now doing GoA and PoA scrolls. My preprints may start out looking alike but you would be surprized at the variety of expression in the result. I have left room in initial letter for scribes to let whimsy reign or to personalize the scroll. In three weeks when the reign ends I hope to have a web site set up to show this. I have set up a scribe table at events not because I neeed scrolls done that day but to let people play around with paint. I wanted it to look less intimiating and back room like. As a result I have a folder of painted scrolls that are either unfinshed or just plain bad. They will never see the light of day again but people who made them feel like they contributed and won't necessarily know that their work didn't go out. I don't mean to imply that AoAs around here are purely the work of beginners and that our recipients are being short changed. You'll see what a wonderful job the people who paint scrolls here have done. Some of it is stunning. Furthermore, the texts this reign are works of poetic beauty and lengthy. I cannot imagine calliging them anew with each scroll. Oh my god, my hand hurt just thinking of it. Finally I put together a mini scribe kit to take to events. I am really glad I did because even though I had more than a month to assign a scroll or do it myself I totally and completely forgot about it. I put together something at Gulf Wars in 3 hours that I am actually rather proud of. I am not sure of the state of the backlog in Calontir. I know I did not contribute to it this reign. As a scribe I feel quite loved. It helps to work for a Queen who is a scribe herself. Whenever they send me a new list of recipientes they end it with "Please don't kill us." Yours in service, HL Slaine happy scribe Barony of Three River Mary Haselbauer Calontir St. Louis MO Snip I would be very unhappy to do scrolls that were pre-prints. I would feel like I was doing a paint-by-number picture. Is there a chance that the reason that there is such a backlog and lack of scribes in the Kingdoms that do preprints is because people don't feel that they are actually doing or learning anything by coloring in a drawing and filling in the blanks in the text? Is there any sense of accomplishment when a pre-print is finished, or is it another chore out of the way so court can get on? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:58:46 -0500 From: Katie Jackson Subject: [scribes]: wax seal protocol I was wondering if there was a "protocol" of wax seals? Like colors, designs, what they're used for (I know about "sealing" a letter; been there, done that). But are there do's and don'ts of seal usage? Thank you! - --Katie (SCA name forthcoming) PS: i'm not sure if i sent this message wrong the last time or not; sorry if you've gotten it twice, i just didn't get any responses and wasn't sure =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #95 ****************************