From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #93 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 05 : Number 093 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. RE: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Re: [scribes]: Scroll Containers(was Scribal Treatment Continued) RE: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:51:20 -0500 From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Greetings-- >Well, my solution to that, especially if I were to ever serve as Royalty >(and the chance of that happening, ever, is about as likely as my ever >winning millions in the lottery, given that I am single with no SO, husband, >or whatever, to fight for me in a Crown List!), would be to have a cut-off >date for accepting award recommendations, and stick to it. Anything coming >in after the deadline would just have to wait until the next event in the >area, or whatever. We had a Prince and Princess of Ealdormere (back when it was a Principality) institute this policy with a lot of success. However, Ealdormere is small. There is a good chance that if you miss one event, there will be another within a couple of hours' drive within the next month or so (unless you live in the Sault Ste. Marie group ;-). The problem with the Middle is that it is so large, and there are certainly areas where if you miss the one time the Crown is there during a reign, you've got to wait until the next reign. It also looks bad on the Crown if they do not give out any awards, especially in a visit to a far-flung area. Unfortunately, people will interpret the lack of awards not as lack of recommendations, but on stinginess by the Crown. Unfortunately, because the Middle has been blessed most of the time to be able to give out scrolls with awards, I think the Crown sometimes feels obligated to have something to give the recipient and thus turns to the scribes. And we often come through with flying colors--which makes us look really good, but also might lead to more of the same. This is one of the reasons why as a scribe, I actually do a lot of award recommendations for folks in my area. If the Crown has them in hand well before, there is less a chance I'm going to be snagged the day of an event for emergency scroll work. Nicolaa =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:10:41 -0700 From: Chendra Conklin Subject: RE: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs At 04:47 PM 3/16/01, you wrote: > during the >times of Mistress Aidan Cocrinn's, and THL Chendra ferch Rhudd's terms in >that office. We started doing original scrolls for the grant of arms >level orders, with new scroll wordings and pre-prints being put together >specific to each reign for the AOA level orders. Yeah, 'twasn't always pretty or very fun, but things slowly started to change for the better *smile* > Requirements for the >work done on pre-prints went up as well, with more of them being painted >with gouache and similarly appropriate paints, and fewer showing up in >marker and colored pencil. Yes - this was an excellent way to start new scribes who might have otherwise been too shy/hesitant/unsure of their skills to just start out on their own. And we also started having little classes about various painting styles/callig styles/general information - again very helpful to the new scribes of the time since there weren't many 'established' scribes doing a lot - many of them had been burnt out. I also wrote the first take on the Calontir Scribes Handbook at that time. >The result was that Calontir has some truly >remarkable scribes. Yes!!!! I've had the great good fortune to see some of the work out of Calontir these days from some of the 'baby' scribes that Aidan and I started and am simply stunned by the gorgeous work they are doing *beams proudly* > > > > So.. each 'culture' has benefits and pitfalls, that we, as scribes, face > > every day. To my humble mind, any scroll, done by any scribe, for any > > Kingdom is a gift to our Society in general and the efforts of the scribe > > deserve praise. I cannot think of a scribally inclined person who would disagree with you. I have also been happy to see that most Crowns have a much more enlightened attitude towards scribes than was the general case in the past. Hopefully no Kingdom Signet will ever have to have some of the conversations with high-mucky-mucks that I had to... - -the outlandish redhead- Baroness Chendra Outlandish by location, Meredian by adoption, Calontiri at heart =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:17:39 -0500 From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Greetings-- >We've only had one Royal who was a scribe, and that was fairly recently, >when Finn and Tamara were King and Queen. Actually, that's not true--our current Queen, Kateryn, is a scribe (has her Willow for C&I, but has not been as active with it lately because of young ones). I can think of at least one more recent Royal who was also a scribe--Duchess Caitlin. In fact, she did quite a lot of scribing work during Osis' and her reign, and also contributed during Os' first reign (with Valthjona). Nicolaa =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:51:58 -0800 (PST) From: abbondanza Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. On protecting Our work..... > Last winter, I attended Ęthelmearc Valentine's Day and while > chatting with > my AE scribal friends, they showed me a clever little thing > that they do. > They take two pieces of cardboard (you can use those backings > for legal pads > when you are all done with them) and then they cover them with > leftover > cloth from making garb I make a case for every scroll I create, as a gift, to get a scroll home safely. If I have spent, 30-75 hours on a piece of artwork, I have a vested interest in it's ~safety. I also make them for Our local shire's event scrolls, about 18-25 per year. I never seem to get them back but they float all over the Kingdom which is ~sweet. Antoinette Aethelmearc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:36:53 -0700 From: "Eva Mehlhose" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. , that I would be very unhappy to do scrolls > that were pre-prints. I would feel like I was doing a paint-by-number > picture. Yes, it does feel like paint by number, and you and me have spent a few Kingdoms and hours discussing this. One of the reasons I was delighted when you moved to the East let alone into the neighborhood of Master Jonathan. As a beginning scribe you fell into the proverbial made nest. A lot of others are stuck trying to find someone, anyone, to help them with materials and resources. Often these sources are mediocre at best. Paint by number preprints are a less intimidating way of getting acquainted with the process than learning the way you did. Remember what you told me just a few years ago? " I will never be a scribe, this looks way to complicated." Giving a preprint border to a new scribe to practice on is a gentle way of taking the fear out of it. I use them in workshops. Is there a chance that the reason that there is such a backlog and > lack of scribes in the Kingdoms that do preprints is because people don't > feel that they are actually doing or learning anything by coloring in a > drawing and filling in the blanks in the text? Is there any sense of > accomplishment when a pre-print is finished, or is it another chore out of > the way so court can get on? Sense of accomplishment? For most, yes, it is something they can contribute to the Kingdom. After a while the usual progression is same as yours was. Increasing experience causes increased skill. The scrolls you are making now - versus last year....and you are rapidly advancing in knowledge and skill. > Like I said, I don't want to offend anyone, or the way anyone does things, > but being a military wife and moving frequently, I have thought a lot about > this and wondered how I would handle it if I end up moving somewhere where I > can not have the freedom and opportunity to challenge myself that being and > Eastern Scribe has given me. You would do exactly what I found myself doing, start up a teaching workshop and let people play. I am in a Kingdom with very few experienced scribes. Unless I teach scribes and show the populace what original scrolls can look like, and in my humble opinion, should look like, the present standard of preprint production will be unchanged. If all you have ever seen is preprints how would you evaluate original work? Hopefully the teaching effort and exhibition of scrolls in force will change the general perception of scribal work out here and I can go back to smiling happily in courts when truly stunning art work is being given. The thing that bothers me most about the preprints is simply: How many hours of dedication, heartbreak and service has the recipient put forward to be rewarded with the award? A lot of folks only get an AoA in their lifetime. I for one am not satisfied with this being a "low level" award that only warrants a minor scroll. So, even the little AoAs will be original work instead of preprints. Then again, with just a handful of scribes burn out is looming fast and furious. Time will tell I guess. Getting of my soap box now, got two Kings and Queens champion scrolls to start. Alyssandra von Drachenskralle Silver Quill Aten, Kingdom Scribe Atenveldt > Olwyn ni Chinneidigh > Eisental > East > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:30:00 EST From: KATAKIRA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Scroll Containers(was Scribal Treatment Continued) In a message dated 3/18/2001 7:52:54 PM, sburnell@raex.com writes: <> Oh, in my copious amounts of spare time! :-) It's a great idea, though! I have lots of scraps you can play with to make those fabric covered carrying cases...lots of neice/nephew dates coming up this spring, so I'm loath to take on something new until I deal with my personal "backlog"--laundry, dusting, etc! (-: When I put scrolls in for a court, I pack them with a couple of Bristol sheets in white or manila envelopeson which I have calliged the recipient's name. On the same envelope, I've attached a sticker with my name and contact info. Just in case. You never know what's going to happen during a court. Things do get lost. I also usually have some larger envelopes with me at events, especially when I'm merchanting. I'll grab a couple of those and take to court--sometimes folks do need them, and they do appreciate getting them. Katarina Peregrine Gwyntarian, Middle =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:24:00 -1000 From: "Michelle O'Malley" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Scribal Treatment Continued. Olwyn and others, I cannot speak specifically to doing pre-prints since I have not done any, but having started scribing in the East and then moving to Caid, I am not motivated to work on Caidan scrolls. After I got to Caid I received a copy of the Caidan scribes handbook and was just plain shocked. The East has almost no rules for scrolls. They can be any size, have any wording, and have any size shield shape. All they need is the name of the recipient, the award, the date, the place, the royalty, space for signatures and the badge/arms depending on the award. I loved making scrolls 5x7 or smaller! In Caid there are standard wordings, deviations must be approved, and there are minimum sizes for scrolls, shield shapes, space for seals. It is extremely difficult to go from very loose requirements to strict ones. It feels stifling. Perhaps if I enjoyed working in a larger format it would be easier here. Also, I am in Western Seas (Hawaii) and somewhat isolated. It is possible that seeing more official Caidan scrolls would inspire me more. As it is, I would prefer to work on unofficial scrolls that do not meet the requirements. I don't know if this answers your questions in any way, Olwyn, or if anyone else would agree with me. I'm sure that a lot of it is coming from the East's scribal environment to that of Caid. If I had started scribal work in Caid I would likely feel very differently! Khioniya Ryseva (Michelle O'Malley) Western Seas, Caid > until I moved to the East. No offence intended to anyone, but I know, from > what I like to do for scrolls, that I would be very unhappy to do scrolls > that were pre-prints. I would feel like I was doing a paint-by-number > picture. Is there a chance that the reason that there is such a > backlog and > lack of scribes in the Kingdoms that do preprints is because people don't > feel that they are actually doing or learning anything by coloring in a > drawing and filling in the blanks in the text? Is there any sense of > accomplishment when a pre-print is finished, or is it another chore out of > the way so court can get on? > > Olwyn ni Chinneidigh > Eisental > East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #93 ****************************