From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #88 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Saturday, March 17 2001 Volume 05 : Number 088 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. Re: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. [scribes]: Re:scrolls backlogs [scribes]: Original Scrolls (East) & Scribal Treatment Continued. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:17:27 -0500 From: "Amy" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. Counting all the names on the email Duchess Katherine sent us with the info on the work we have done this reign, we have 53 scribes in the east. Some are active, some are not, some are very active! Duchess Katherine has done 17 scrolls herself this reign, I have done 15 full scrolls plus the calligraphy on a bunch more. I know we have all been very active this reign. Olwyn Eisental East - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eva Mehlhose" To: "Amy" ; Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. > > Greetings Olwyn > how many actively producing scribes are in the East Kingdom? Atenveldt has > 14 and we are handling the Kingdom need as best we can. > Alyssandra von Drachenskralle, the ever curious Aten Kingdom scribe > > > As was said before, the East gives original scrolls for ALL awards, > whether > > armigerous or not, so this list contains everything from "Brewer to the > > Crown" to Peerages. > > > > All in all, we must be treated pretty well in the East if we can handle > the > > kind of reign we have currently--297 awards given since Coronation, all > with > > original scrolls.We have 3 more Courts to go...and most of us aren't > > babbling goons yet! :-) > > > > Olwyn ni Chinneidigh > > Shire of Eisental, > > East > > > > =================================================================== > > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > > with a blank Subject: line and > > unsubscribe scribes > > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > > the body. > > > > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:26:38 -0500 From: "Amy" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Backlog, Scribal Treatment, etc. > Out of curiosity, what is your definition of an "Original Scroll" ? > Also, how many active scribes do you have? I would also be interested in > knowing how many scribal-Laurels there are in the East Kingdom. (I am > wondering if there is a correlation between the number of active scribes > and the number of active scribal laurels). > I have no idea how many C&I Laurels there are. > Using my definition of an "Original Scroll" (which may be extreme) makes > 297 original scrolls an absolutely amazing amount of work, especially > taking into account a 6 month window. > > My definition: An original scroll is one in which one starts out with a > blank piece of paper or vellum, drafts out the border, guidelines, etc. > Does the calligraphy by hand, illuminates the border, Versals, Emblazon, > Minaitures... and then does all of the detail work. I typically figure > about 20-40 hours of work per scroll, depending on complexity. Also, > this definition fits in with what I have seen in Atenveldt, Caid, > Trimaris and An Tir. > Yep--that's it. 140lb hot press and a pencil to finished piece. > Bottom line for me, if I complete one or two original scrolls in a > month, I am just *screaming along*, high-speed and low-drag. Cruisin' > even. > I am very lucky in that I am currently a stay-at-home wife and mother. this gives me time while my husband is at work and my daughter is at school that I can work uninterupted. If I worked outside the house, there is no way I could have done the amnt of work I have this reign. The shortest amnt of time I have had to do a scroll was 2 days and that was an unusual circumstance, usually we get 2 weeks or more for an assignment. Olwyn Eisental East =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:48:54 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:scrolls backlogs Malcolm I hope you don't mind the huge snippage of your missive, but I want to specifically address just the last part. In a message dated 3/16/2001 4:24:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, vtaltos@earthlink.net writes: > When the general populace sees 11-20 scrolls, every > weekend, all of remarkable or higher caliber being handed out, new scribes > can feel overwhelmed at the task and so shy away, experienced scribes can > quickly burn out, as their work is "expected" There is quite a bit of truth to this. There is a tremendous pressure on the scribes to do a wonderful scroll for every recipient.... but most of this comes from the drive and determination of the scribes themselves. I have yet to meet the scribe that is happy with their own best effort, even if others are awestruck by a piece. We all try to improve with each assignment. When we fall short of the piece as we envision it in our mind, it's a disappointment... but it's also a motivation to jump back in and do better next time :-) I too worry about novice scribes thinking that their work is not worthy to go out in the same court with experienced scribes...And this is how they say it. :-( I disagree. I like to show folks my first scrolls to prove that I didn't have any talent or skill before I started learning the scribal arts through the SCA. It really does give them hope that if I can create scrolls, maybe they can too. :-) I'm working hard every day to encourage new scribes and let them know that each and every scribe is appreciated, regardless of their level of ability. Listen closely in court when they announce "This is the first scroll by XXXXX" The applause is often louder than that received for any other scroll. >and the populace can become > jaded to the absolute amount of beauty and effort involved in these scrolls. The absolute beauty and attention to personalization and detail in AEthelmearc scrolls is astonishing. The scribes consistently do themselves and their kingdom proud. I don't think that the effort is lost on the populace. But what *really matters* is the recipient. I have had tearful gentles come up and thank me repeatedly for what I consider a modest ... and in all honesty, rushed, piece. I have received numerous thank you notes and an occasional gift.... and most cherished, countless thank yous, smiles and hugs. :-) What the recipients often forget is that *they* are the inspiration and reason for the scroll being requested in the first place. > So.. each 'culture' has benefits and pitfalls, that we, as scribes, face > every day. To my humble mind, any scroll, done by any scribe, for any > Kingdom is a gift to our Society in general and the efforts of the scribe > deserve praise. I most heartily agree. :-) Don't limit thanks to those who have done a scroll for you though. Several years ago, Mistress Alicia put forth a scribal challenge. One of the suggestions was to write a letter to the scribe who inspires you the most and tell them why. I never thought to thank another scribe for something other than creating a scroll.... but it makes sense .... and it sure felt good. :-) In reverence of chivalry and honor... I remain, Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:00:36 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Original Scrolls (East) & Scribal Treatment Continued. >Out of curiosity, what is your definition of an "Original Scroll" ? Original scrolls are basically those done entirely by hand, with the scribe's own choice of how to do the scroll, which style to use, which materials, and which text to use -- all in one. I think the term is a little "bent" when it comes to duplicating something right out of an existing medieval manuscript, but then, we are part of a re-creationist group, not re-enactment. Else we'd all do our scrolls the same way worldwide.... Whereas some scribes prefer to use traditional layouts and refer to the "traditional" texts (those usually found in museums with historical documentation to prove authenticity), I as as scribe may choose to create something that does not appear in an art history book, but still has a medieval feel for it. It's really wonderful to be able to release my creative impulses out onto the paper, like many others here in East, and in neighboring AEthelmearc. >Using my definition of an "Original Scroll" (which may be extreme) makes 297 original scrolls an absolutely amazing amount of work, especially taking into account a 6 month window. As mentioned by lady Olwyn, there are upwards of 53 scribes on Duchess Katherine's e-mailing list. Between 53 scribes, 297 scrolls is an average of slightly over 5 each this reign, (not including scrolls made for Estrella and other Wars?) though that figure would be based on everyone making a scroll each. So far this reign, I have produced 6, going on 7. The shortest lead time I was *given by the Signet* was 2 weeks. The shortest lead time I *gave myself* was 4 days. Therin lies the difference -- with mundane life, and now a search for a new mundane job while still working 40 hrs a week, plus studying archery marshallate rules among other SCA things, I have to budget my time. To date, I've never missed (*knock on wood*) an assignment, and the Tyger Signet was very understanding when I passed on a scroll assignment handed to me while I was working on the 4-day scroll -- the big 12"x14" scroll I put out for EK 12th Night. We're told to know our limits (prevent burnout), and passing up an assignment is acceptable, so long as it doesn't happen too frequently. EK scribes are also revered for their work, announced separately following a show to the crowd in court of the awards. This isn't to say, however, that there isn't a problem with the folk who don't show up to court for an award (there's about 1-2 average in each court I've been to, though sometimes everyone who was assigned an award gets one). I was, however, greatly disappointed at Mudthaw... Because the hall housed both the merchants and the court, there was a severe problem with noise factor when several fighters and other folk from outside came in and began talking at normal volume. I couldn't hear much of what the herald was reading, even with the microphone he had on, nor did I believe that TRM Andreas and Isabella should have to raise their voice to be heard (they didn't raise their voices, but there were several 'shh's from the crowd that WAS trying to listen). The same problem has occurred at other sites where merchants were present in the hall, but it's very infrequent -- even if it is rude. Overall, though, scribes are *definitely* recognized in court, receiving plenty of 'oohs' and 'aahs', especially if the scroll has gold/gilding on it. Maybe East has become jaded to that extent, I don't know. I do know that the presentation of the scrolls and awards to the populace is one of the many highlights of any court, and to be sure, there are definitely some scribes here in the East who have a small 'fan base' for their ardent work. >One thing that really rattles my cage these days is the expectation of there being a "Scribe's Room" at an event at which Royalty is in attendance, Saradwen, I really feel for you and others out there. To the best of my knowledge, East doesn't use this practice, and discourages promissories -- I honestly don't think I could handle being cooped up in a room while the activities I want to participate in are going on outside. I'd go absolutely bonkers, and would probably drop off the archery rankings from not being able to compete. I think a Scribe's Room for that purpose would moreso engender hard feelings and resentment for the work done. It's really not for me to say, not being part of your Kingdom, but I still agree that it doesn't seem right. And Olwen, the moment you get information on when that Scribal Event would be, let me know!!! :) In Service, Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East, AnDubhaigheainn) E.Frank, Long Island NY The SCA Scribes Webring: http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=thescascribesweb =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #88 ****************************