From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #85 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, March 16 2001 Volume 05 : Number 085 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:03:58 +0000 From: Catie Helm-Clark Subject: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Kinga de la Roux wrote: > but am back to working on past due scrolls. I would > ask the Kingdom to help me. While helping our brethen in other Kingdoms would be > nice, there may be a way to do that, and help ours as well. If you do one for > them, do one for us. That way you are doing BOTH Kingdoms a favor. the folks in Artemisia should recognize this thread, but I'm cross-posting this, so for the rest of you here's what's up: there has been a bit of discussion on the artemisia kingdom email list about helping another kingdom with their scroll backlog when we have one here at home in Artemisia. Having recently moved to Artemisia from a kingdom with one of the largest scroll backlogs in the knowne world, I thought that I would do some fact finding before I waded back into this discussion on the kingdom list. So what I did was to send email to every kingdom's chief scribe person (regardless of the actual name of the office, which varies widely throughout the knowne world) and ask them about their own backlog... The answers were not what I expected now that I've had a chance to compare. What I've discovered, and what I think may be interesting especially for the scribes' list, is that I asked the wrong questions! I asked the wrong things because I assumed that everyone talked the same way about "scrolls," which in my west-centric way of thinking means a document signed and sealed by royalty concerning the awarding of anything concerning matters armigerous (AoAs, grants, patents, certain other goodies concernig ensigns armorial like augmentations, etc.) What I would call a promissory, others might call a charter (??? first time I've even heard the word used in conjunction with giving awards of various types) Now when I think of "pre-prints" I think of "fill in the name" and "paint the arms" scrolls used in the West, usually for AoAs. Other people in other places equate pre-prints with charters or promissories. In short, we are using similar words for different scribal products, and sometimes different words for the same thing. So one of the questions I should have been asking is: "what sort of scribal products does your kingdom produce, and what do you call them?" The next questionm should have been: which of these products are on pre-printed forms? If you use pre-printed forms, how much personalization is done on these forms before they are given out? Then I should have also asked: what is your kingdom's custom in giving out scribal products, ie, what gets a pre-printed form, what gets a kingdom seal and/or royal signature? Are your scribal products for major awards assumed to be automatically produced (in the fullness of time...), or does your kingdom leave recipients to commission their own scrolls? (now remember, I'm using "scroll" in a West-centric context) Then, after those questions were sorted out, I might have been able to ask about backlogs in ways that might have generated the info I was looking for, once I had an idea of what each kingdom's scribal jargon actually meant! So instead of trying to compile the answers I've received, some of which didn't even make sense to me at first, being handicapped by the scribal jargon I learned in the West (where I lived until 3 months ago), what I've decided to do is start over next week - and this time, I'll try to ask the questions I should have asked the first time (hindsight sucks). AND THEN I'll sit down and write it all up. Now this won't help me out in what I was thinking of posting to my kingdom list about our backlog, but I think that folks might be interested in seeing how other kingdoms approach the scribal business as far as awards go. What few people know is that I've done a lot of research as to how the SCA in the West evolved its usage and even its terminology for scrolls, starting with the first scroll at the first 12th night in year 2, which taken to its fullest depth is the actually the history of the early SCA Before I emailed the various chief scribal people all over the knowne world, I was content in thinking that this history of scrolls in the West applied by virtue of descent to all other kingdoms everywhere. Now I think I've been suffering from too parochial (sp?) a mindset on the subject, which means the TI article I've been working on regarding the evolution of SCA scrolls need to be rewritten. Now I know the scribe list is about pens and ink and paint, and not really about administrivia, even scribal administrivia. So if you have thoughts you want to share about the scribal administrivia of your kingdom, email me direct, so we don't clog up the scribes list. I have already been requested and have already promised to post or published my compiled results, which I will probably put on my web site and then drop posts to various lists that it's done. Thus far, the West has the biggest backlog (~2300 scrolls) Juanna didn't have a figure close to hand for the age of the oldest scroll on the West's backlog list - that makes the oldest reported-to-date backlogged scroll 27 years old (from Ansteorra) ttfn, Therasia (administrivia addict) ___________________________________________ Reward doubled in Abernathy murder case http://www.onewest.net/~no1home/index.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:20:17 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Dear folks, Sorry if this gets posted more than once to you. Just an idea about doing scrolls for other kingdoms when you have a backlog of your own: Perhaps a Scribe Exchange Program would help. Like a Student Exchange Program, a Scribe Exchange Program would choose a scribe (or more than one) from Kingdom A to do work for six months for Kingdom B; and another scribe or set from Kingdom B would do the same for Kingdom A. This might be used as a reward, to call attention to new scribes who had done a good amount of nice work locally, or the Signet could ask a respected scribe to do the job and act as a mentor to scribes in the other kingdom. In either case, this would increase connections among scribes and illuminators among different kingdoms while getting all respective backlogs reduced. Thoughts? - -- johannes v.n. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 06:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: abbondanza Subject: Re: [scribes]: scrolls backlogs Gracious Lady, I found your missive fascinating but I have a few questions of my own to pose which is related to this issue. I would like to know why a Kingdom's backlog exists? from their perspective? Is a recipient expected to find their own scribe and commission their work? Did the scribe drop out of the sca with ~unfinished business? Was their a communication misfire or misunderstanding? What do other kingdom's assignment procedures consist of? Do all Kingdoms have a Backlog Officer who a recipient may go to and say, "Gee, Its been a year and I still don't have my scroll". Is there a lack of support to the scribal communities elsewhere in the Known World? Is the responsibility/role clearly defined to everyone involved? How many scribes paint v how many active members in a Kingdom? Is there a turnover rate of scribes in a Kingdom? (burn out) How do other kingdom's recruit scribes? I have been painting for Aethelemarc for 2+ years, I have 1000 hours logged in as painting time, I just finished my 37th scroll last night. I also painted two peerages which were sent to the West Kingdom last year and were well received. The King of the West actually came to the Aethelmearc Scribal tea at the Pennsic War last year to ~personally~ thank each scribe who sent work to the West. I will always remember this with great fondness, it was a huge learning experience, the West does things differently than we do, a bit of culture shock. However, Mistress Gierny had written up Our roles clearly so that we understood exactly what we needed to do and when I had questions she answered them promptly. It was a great experience to learn how others have to paint within a canon of expectation. In Aethelmearc, scribes are adored and treated well, not just by recipients but by everyone, but most importantly by Our Chief of Scribes (Sylvan Signet) THL Eibhlin, she asks us what we want to do, lead time needed, styles in which we paint,specific list: gentles that we would like to paint a scroll for, if we need to return an assignment for any reason she is super supportive and responds to our emails and phone calls the same day.....yes, we are spoiled and we know it, but we also produce a high quality product with consistency. Adieu, THL Antoinette de la Croix of Stormsport who is a Social Engineer in her mundane world __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #85 ****************************