From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #63 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, March 7 2001 Volume 05 : Number 063 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: books on ebay Re: [scribes]: wax seal question Re: [scribes]: wax seal question [scribes]: Erasures from vellum [scribes]: Natural beeswax Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum Re: [scribes]: wax seal question Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax Re: [scribes]: wax seal question Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum Re: [scribes]: wax seal question Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum [scribes]: Re: Erasures from vellum Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax [scribes]: Re:Erasures from vellum Re: [scribes]: Re: Erasures from vellum Re: [scribes]: books on ebay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:55:47 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: books on ebay - --=====================_62426514==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I hope to offend no one and not to be considered spam but I wanted to pass these along. I apologize for any cross-posting. A copy of Drogin's medieval calligraphy current bid at $13.37. "The Book of Kells:Reproductions from the Manuscript in Trinity College,Dublin,Ireland with a Study of the Manuscript by Francoise Henry " Published by Knopf in 1977 current bid $ 59.95. This is out of print and I would desperately love to buy it, but..... "THE HOURS OF ETIENNE CHEVALIER Classic facsimile of medieval illuminated manuscript Published by George Braziller Excellent condition, in original slip case" current bid is $30. Again, if I can't have it perhaps someone who would loan it to me can win....... In the cause of helping others, Despina de la Brasov - ---------- Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul; the blue prints of your ultimate accomplishments. - --Napoleon Hill - --=====================_62426514==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I hope to offend no one and not to be considered spam but I wanted to pass these along.  I apologize for any cross-posting.

A copy of Drogin's medieval calligraphy current bid at $13.37.

"The Book of Kells:Reproductions from the Manuscript in Trinity College,Dublin,Ireland with a Study of the Manuscript by Francoise Henry " Published by Knopf in 1977   current bid $ 59.95.  This is out of print and I would desperately love to buy it, but.....

"THE HOURS OF ETIENNE CHEVALIER Classic facsimile of medieval illuminated manuscript Published by George Braziller Excellent condition, in original slip case"  current bid is $30.  Again, if I can't have it perhaps someone who would loan it to me can win.......

In the cause of helping others,
Despina de la Brasov


Cherish your visions and your dreams as they are the children of your soul; the blue prints of your ultimate accomplishments.
--Napoleon Hill
- --=====================_62426514==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:25:45 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question Mahee, would such a gadget have existed in the middle ages? Some on this list are such sticklers that they even argue whether or not distilled water is authentic. Surely, instead of gadgets to make sealing easier, we should be looking for the true medieval way it was done. I know nothing about wax seals, but it seems the problem is the speed at shich the wax hardens. Is our modern sealing wax the same? Perhaps someone should buy some beeswax or whatever and start experimenting. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell mahee of acre" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question > Someone stated on this list a year or so ago that in Sweden or one of those > countries they have a gaggit they use to put seals on things. It heats the > wax and then you pull a trigger or something and the wax just makes a > reasonably perfect circle to which to appy the seal. Sounds like we need to > contact our people over there and have them send us a box load of these > gaggits. > > your servant, > mahee > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:53:38 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question >>I was under the impression that the wax used for lost wax casting had to be pliable enough to model. The wax rods I used to use was anything but pliable. Totally hard.<< Jeweler's wax is pliable when it's warm. I'm pretty sure we use the same stuff for seals, or something very similar, because I've worked both with our sealing wax and Doug's jewelry wax. Both will get a little soft just by heating it in your hands - that's how I've managed to flatten a couple of seals by accident, because the scroll was between 2 pieces of cardboard and got too warm. "Pliable enough to model" covers a pretty broad spectrum and I suspect that there are several types of wax that jewelers use. I know Morgan Athenry (who is on this list last time I looked) has been working on new scepter designs for Caid, and her wax seems a lot softer than the stuff I've seen Doug using. Doug's wax hardens to the point of sealing wax when it's cool. Maybe it's because of the type of jewellry he's doing (lots of custom rings, necklaces, brooches and such with very intricate settings, plus he works in platinum on a lot of occasions and I guess as a metal it's very hard metal to work with since it requires a special kiln). But I don't know much about jewelry making, so I couldn't tell you for sure. Tetchubah =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:10:02 -0800 From: "Julie C. Sparks" Subject: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum Greetings again, I am working on a diplomatic transcription of a 15th century French/ Flemish book of hours for a senior project, and I was wondering what methods of erasure from vellum you folks may have experimented with or come across in your research. Of course I know the standard scraping method, but I found a page in the calendar of this book where two line seem to have been erased. Please see http://www.willamette.edu/wits/play/jcsparks/nwacc/index.cgi?work=BoH&page1=7v-2&page2=8r-2&couple=yes The erasures in question are on 7v: at the line marked with 'xii g' you can just make out "S'ichan porte latine" ("Saint John at Porta Latina"), and at 'ix c' you can see "Saint nicholay." The correct placement of these two is on the previous page, listed under the same days of the week (indicated by the letters), so I am reasonably sure the erasures are the result of scribal error. The strange thing is that they do not seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks like that erasable ink that they make sometimes, where you use another pen to erase your marks, but the original ink still remains as a 'ghost' on the page if you look closely. If you have any thoughts or texts I might refer to, I would appreciate it greatly. Julie Sparks http://www.willamette.edu/~jcford/Carson/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:28:32 +0100 From: "Brahdelt" Subject: [scribes]: Natural beeswax > I know nothing about wax seals, but it seems the problem is the speed at > shich the wax hardens. Is our modern sealing wax the same? Perhaps someone > should buy some beeswax or whatever and start experimenting. > > Corinna We are using only natural beeswax in Draconia. We do it in a following way: I cut two small holes in a scroll and put a ribbon through them. Then I make a flat circle out of wax (it is very easy to be formated with your hands) - it will be the back side of a seal. Then I put the ribbon onto that circle and make a low border out of wax - it will keep the flowing wax in place. Now I put some wax and some colophony into a small pot and place it over a lit candle (I have a rack made of brass wire to be used for it). When the wax is melted, I pour it into the bordered circle, and, just as it starts to be stiff, I put the stamp into it, and - it's ready. At the beginning we used the wax alone, but it was too soft, but then somebody got the idea that some natural resin can be added - I don't know if it is very historic or not, but it works. Lady Finnarwen of Formendor Court Chronicler Principality of Draconia (Joanna Zelazko Warsaw, Poland) - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my site: www.draconia.it.pl\ekronikarz.html =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:33:00 -0500 From: "Jessica Wilbur" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum On 7 Mar 01, at 11:10, Julie C. Sparks wrote: > Greetings again, > The erasures in question are on 7v: at the line marked with 'xii g' > you can just make out "S'ichan porte latine" ("Saint John at Porta > Latina"), and at 'ix c' you can see "Saint nicholay." The correct > placement of these two is on the previous page, listed under the same > days of the week (indicated by the letters), so I am reasonably sure > the erasures are the result of scribal error. The strange thing is > that they do not seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks > like that erasable ink that they make sometimes, where you use another > pen to erase your marks, but the original ink still remains as a > 'ghost' on the page if you look closely. If you have any thoughts or > texts I might refer to, I would appreciate it greatly. > > Julie Sparks Hi Julie, I have read that when you use inks that contain tannins (oak gall or walnut inks), the acid in the ink kind of "bites" the surface of the paper or vellum and etches into it. Thus, when you scrape it off, it will leave a faint outline where the edges are more concentrated. I hope I am remembering that explanation correctly - I think I read it in Christopher de Hamel's _Scribes and Illuminators_ from the Medieval Craftsmen series. I can try looking it up again if you want more details. That's my theory on what's going on there, though there could be some other explanation. - --Muireann =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:39:56 -0000 From: "Russell mahee of acre" Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question I would bet that in period they would have used something the size of a 1 cup measure made out of iron or copper, and placed it next to the fire to melt the wax. That way it poors easily and for a seal of any size. your servant, mahee - ----------------------------- Mahee, would such a gadget have existed in the middle ages? Some on this list are such sticklers that they even argue whether or not distilled water is authentic. Surely, instead of gadgets to make sealing easier, we should be looking for the true medieval way it was done. I know nothing about wax seals, but it seems the problem is the speed at shich the wax hardens. Is our modern sealing wax the same? Perhaps someone should buy some beeswax or whatever and start experimenting. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell mahee of acre" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question > Someone stated on this list a year or so ago that in Sweden or one of those > countries they have a gaggit they use to put seals on things. It heats the > wax and then you pull a trigger or something and the wax just makes a > reasonably perfect circle to which to appy the seal. Sounds like we need to > contact our people over there and have them send us a box load of these > gaggits. > > your servant, > mahee > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:49:06 -0000 From: "Russell mahee of acre" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax Back to the gaget that was mentioned... I also remembered that the person said that they used a resin, not wax in it...and if the seals of old were made of wax they would have the same melting problem we have today...and they do not. So I am betting that resin is more likely accurate in period. They said that they used it to seal christmas stuff. If somebody loves to read,I would suggest reading archives to find out. I do not have any time for that...sorry. your servnat, mahee _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:28:02 EST From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question In a message dated 3/7/01 2:26:54 AM, jackie@burns-arts.demon.co.uk writes: << I was under the impression that the wax used for lost wax casting had to be pliable enough to model. The wax rods I used to use was anything but pliable. Totally hard. >> I believe the wax used for seals is also the same as jeweler's dop wax, not the wax used for lost-wax carving. You are correct that the wax used for casting is totally different, and closer to pure beeswax. The jeweler's wax to which I was referring, and that Tetchubah mentioned to the list, is the stuff used to attach gems to a dop stick, for polishing. It provides a means of "glueing" that is hard, secure, and firm, yet reversible. It is brittle, so the gem can be broken off, as well as melted off. The modern legal documents with seals are much smaller seals. I have an indenture, on vellum, from the 1800s with several seals on it. I notice that the seals are about the size suitable for a "seal ring" and some of the signators of my document had armorial seals. The ones who didn't had what appears to be a generic seal -- a crosshatch pattern. This document and its seals are the subject of an article in one of the Symposium Proceedings of 1995, if anyone wants more details. Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:02:14 EST From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax In a message dated 3/7/01 11:50:51 AM, husted@hotmail.com writes: << if the seals of old were made of wax >> Yes, they were wax. But "sealing wax" is not "beeswax." The term "wax" occupies nearly a page of the Compact OED (with 4 triple columns per quarter), and defn 4 relates to us here, to wit, "In early use, beeswax (or a mixture of this with other substances) as employed to receive the impression a seal; in later use, a compound chiefly consisting of lac, serving the same purpose -- see SEALING WAX." Under "sealing wax", it gives its composition as shellac, rosin, and turpentine, with the further note (in tiny, tiny type): "The modern 'sealing wax' resembles wax in its fusability and its plasticity when softened by heat, but its superior hardness when solidified renders it more capable of receiving a sharp and durable impression. It is usually colored scarlet with vermillian, but black sealing wax is used for mourning, and green, blue, etc. for reasons of ornament." The time period represented by "early" and "later" or "modern" are not defined. However, seals I have seen in the British Museum and various other museums, of documents since about 700 AD seem to be sealed with a substance similar to modern seals. I have not seen any original Mesopotamian seal waxes, but they did use seals. My impression (which may be way off), is that "early" refers to that time-period, and "later" or "modern" refers to post-Roman. Teresia von Tux had a fascinating article she wrote some time ago trying to reconstruct a recipe for sealing wax, via experimentation. If I recall correctly, it was pretty much a flop. That is, her successes were measured in the number of ways that one cannot make sealing wax, rather than in any means of making it. Eowyn =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:13:43 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum If scraping two full lines seems like a tedius job, remember that there were novices and apprentices for such dreary tasks, so a faster way might not have been necessary. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum > On 7 Mar 01, at 11:10, Julie C. Sparks wrote: > > > Greetings again, > > > The erasures in question are on 7v: at the line marked with 'xii g' > > you can just make out "S'ichan porte latine" ("Saint John at Porta > > Latina"), and at 'ix c' you can see "Saint nicholay." The correct > > placement of these two is on the previous page, listed under the same > > days of the week (indicated by the letters), so I am reasonably sure > > the erasures are the result of scribal error. The strange thing is > > that they do not seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks > > like that erasable ink that they make sometimes, where you use another > > pen to erase your marks, but the original ink still remains as a > > 'ghost' on the page if you look closely. If you have any thoughts or > > texts I might refer to, I would appreciate it greatly. > > > > Julie Sparks > > Hi Julie, > > I have read that when you use inks that contain tannins (oak gall or > walnut inks), the acid in the ink kind of "bites" the surface of the > paper or vellum and etches into it. Thus, when you scrape it off, it > will leave a faint outline where the edges are more concentrated. I > hope I am remembering that explanation correctly - I think I read it > in Christopher de Hamel's _Scribes and Illuminators_ from the > Medieval Craftsmen series. I can try looking it up again if you want > more details. That's my theory on what's going on there, though > there could be some other explanation. > > --Muireann > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:17:16 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question When I was a small child in England (almost back in the Dark Ages) my father used sealing wax on the knots of string when he wrapped brown paper parcels to post. He held it over the know and let it drip on. It hardened almost instantly. I believe this kind of red sealing wax is still sold by bagpipe suppliers for sealing the ends of drone reeds. Last time I bought it was about 15 years ago. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question > > In a message dated 3/7/01 2:26:54 AM, jackie@burns-arts.demon.co.uk writes: > > << I was under the impression that the wax used for lost wax casting had to > be pliable enough to model. The wax rods I used to use was anything but > pliable. Totally hard. >> > > I believe the wax used for seals is also the same as jeweler's dop wax, not > the wax used for lost-wax carving. You are correct that the wax used for > casting is totally different, and closer to pure beeswax. The jeweler's wax > to which I was referring, and that Tetchubah mentioned to the list, is the > stuff used to attach gems to a dop stick, for polishing. It provides a means > of "glueing" that is hard, secure, and firm, yet reversible. It is brittle, > so the gem can be broken off, as well as melted off. > > The modern legal documents with seals are much smaller seals. I have an > indenture, on vellum, from the 1800s with several seals on it. I notice that > the seals are about the size suitable for a "seal ring" and some of the > signators of my document had armorial seals. The ones who didn't had what > appears to be a generic seal -- a crosshatch pattern. This document and its > seals are the subject of an article in one of the Symposium Proceedings of > 1995, if anyone wants more details. > > Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:39:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth Blatt Subject: Re: [scribes]: Erasures from vellum At 11:10 AM -0800 3/7/01, Julie C. Sparks wrote: >http://www.willamette.edu/wits/play/jcsparks/nwacc/index.cgi?work=BoH&page1=7v-2&page2=8r-2&couple=yes > >The strange thing is that they do not >seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks like that erasable ink >that they make sometimes, where you use another pen to erase your marks, >but the original ink still remains as a 'ghost' on the page if you look >closely. If you have any thoughts or texts I might refer to, I would >appreciate it greatly. Ironically, I'm also working on creating a catalogue entry for a Book of Hours on behalf of a class I'm taking in paleography, and I'm running into an opposite sort of circumstance: the ink isn't a tannin ink, so has flaked or been rubbed off of the folios, more or less. I would definitely recommend investigating ink properties; while I don't have any specific print resources to recommend offhand, the Iron Gall Ink Corrosion website may give you some starting points: http://www.knaw.nl/ecpa/ink/ Additionally, Chaucer very kindly distinguishes for us three different methods for correcting manuscripts which I think is specifically relevant to your query; it's in his short poem "Chaucer's Words Unto Adam, His Owne Scriveyn" ("scriveyn" is basically the Middle English word for a professional scribe); it's amusing as well as being short, so I'll quote it in full: Adam scriveyn, if ever it thee bifalle Boece or Troilus to wryten newe, Under thy lokkes thou most have the scalle, But after my making thou wryte trewe. So ofte a daye I mot thy werk renewe, Hit to correcte and eek to rubbe and scrape; And al is through thy negligence and rape. The important bit is in the first two lines of the second stanza: "So often must I do your work myself by providing corrections and also rubbing and scraping (away the mistakes)..." "To correcte" means to add in the right text (ie, a caret with the words superscripted above a crossed-out passage), "to rubbe" is to rub off the ink (which is what I think happened in your case; that a shadow of the ink is left behind is, as someone else has surmised, likely due to its being an iron gall or other 'biting' ink), and "to scrape" is to remove a layer of the parchment. Hope this helps! Elianora Mathewes Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth Blatt Subject: [scribes]: Re: Erasures from vellum >At 11:10 AM -0800 3/7/01, Julie C. Sparks wrote: >>http://www.willamette.edu/wits/play/jcsparks/nwacc/index.cgi?work=BoH&page1=7v-2&page2=8r-2&couple=yes >> >>The strange thing is that they do not >>seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks like that erasable ink >>that they make sometimes, where you use another pen to erase your marks, >>but the original ink still remains as a 'ghost' on the page if you look > >closely. An additional comment comes courtesy of listmember Janice Safran's handout on quill-curing, in which there's an image showing a Bolognese stationer's shop with bunches of quills hanging below the eaves and two men inside, one scraping a piece of parchment. The aspect pertinent to your inquiry, Julie, is that the second man pictured is rubbing a piece of parchment already written-upon with a pumice stone. A photo is also available in Alexander's book on the working methods of scribes (I'm blanking on the book title at the moment). It's BUB MS 1456, f. 4r, in the Biblioteca Universitaria in Bologna. Elianora Mathewes Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:38:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Natural beeswax Meisterin Therasia von Tux has done significant research and experimentation with period sealing wax recipes. Problems she has run into include that one of the major ingredients has a name that means something else entirely today, and that no portions are given in the period recipes. Is Tux on this list? Maybe she can elucidate. Graidhne On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Brahdelt wrote: > > > I know nothing about wax seals, but it seems the problem is the speed at > > shich the wax hardens. Is our modern sealing wax the same? Perhaps > someone > > should buy some beeswax or whatever and start experimenting. > > > > Corinna > > We are using only natural beeswax in Draconia. We do it in a following way: > I cut two small holes in a scroll and put a ribbon through them. Then I make > a flat circle out of wax (it is very easy to be formated with your hands) - > it will be the back side of a seal. Then I put the ribbon onto that circle > and make a low border out of wax - it will keep the flowing wax in place. > Now I put some wax and some colophony into a small pot and place it over a > lit candle (I have a rack made of brass wire to be used for it). When the > wax is melted, I pour it into the bordered circle, and, just as it starts to > be stiff, I put the stamp into it, and - it's ready. > At the beginning we used the wax alone, but it was too soft, but then > somebody got the idea that some natural resin can be added - I don't know if > it is very historic or not, but it works. > > Lady Finnarwen of Formendor > Court Chronicler > Principality of Draconia > > (Joanna Zelazko > Warsaw, Poland) > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit my site: www.draconia.it.pl\ekronikarz.html > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:03:00 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: Re:Erasures from vellum I have heard of wadding up bread with ground glass for the abrasive and using that as the eraser. Can't remember where though. Cennini? I guess I've accumulated too much junk in my head and can no longer sort it all out! RanthulfR Elizabeth Blatt wrote: > > >At 11:10 AM -0800 3/7/01, Julie C. Sparks wrote: > >> http://www.willamette.edu/wits/play/jcsparks/nwacc/index.cgi?work=BoH&page1=7v-2&page2=8r-2&couple=yes > >> > >>The strange thing is that they do not > >>seem to have been scraped off; actually, it looks like that erasable ink > >>that they make sometimes, where you use another pen to erase your marks, > >>but the original ink still remains as a 'ghost' on the page if you look > > >closely. > > An additional comment comes courtesy of listmember Janice Safran's handout on quill-curing, in which there's an image showing a Bolognese stationer's shop with bunches of quills hanging below the eaves and two men inside, one scraping a piece of parchment. The aspect pertinent to your inquiry, Julie, is that the second man pictured is rubbing a piece of parchment already written-upon with a pumice stone. A photo is also available in Alexander's book on the working methods of scribes (I'm blanking on the book title at the moment). It's BUB MS 1456, f. 4r, in the Biblioteca Universitaria in Bologna. > > Elianora Mathewes > Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:16:04 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Erasures from vellum If you all are so amazed that someone would go to the trouble to scrape off a couple short lines, you should see a manuscript currently protected by the Newberry Library in Chicago. This book is written ENTIRELY on re-used vellum. The former book, which had been done some time in the 13th century in two columns, was completely scraped off and a second book done in the 14th century and one column was written over the scraped pages. For the most part, you can not see the older script, but some pages it is most evident. I was totally amazed when I read the description and just had to see it for myself. This is a book with pages that are about 9"x11" and the book is around 1-1/4" thick. That is one heck of a bunch of scraping!! Not something I would want to wish on even the lowest apprentice. KHvS =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:25:00 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: books on ebay Could you do us a favor and please list the item numbers on Ebay when listing the book descriptions and prices? It would make finding the bidding page that much easier... Thank you so much. - --Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East) E.Frank, Long Island NY =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #63 ****************************