From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #45 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, February 28 2001 Volume 05 : Number 045 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: new to list Re: [scribes]: wax seal question [scribes]: Re:Opaline vellum? Re: [scribes]: Re:Opaline vellum? [scribes]: Re: shipping scrolls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:36:12 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: new to list Welcome, milady Mariette... I'm not sure if Rusted Woodlands has one, but there is supposedly a scribal workshop run by Lady (Mistress? Her scrolls are good enough to be...) Pagan Crawford just south of you in the Barony of Settmour Swamp. Her contact information for the workshops can be found on www.settmourswamp.org, if you don't already know about it. :) In the meantime, if you're interested in meeting up in person and talking, I'll be at Mudthaw next weekend. Otherwise, there's still PLENTY of people on this list, with more knowledge than I could ever imagine, with reference to the scribal Arts. I may come from an art background, but there are things that they just don't get to teach you in design and calligraphy courses, or art history courses, in college. Again, welcome, and I look forward to seeing your work at events in the future. :) Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East, Barony of An Dubhaigheainn) (Elizabeth Frank, Long Island NY) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:36:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth Blatt Subject: Re: [scribes]: wax seal question At 7:10 PM -0400 2/27/01, Martin Higgins wrote: >I have been following this thread for a while and wondered what the colour >of the seals would be traditionally, as I have not had opportunity to see >any, or at least in colour to my knowledge, am really not sure. > Ok it may be kinda silly to ask, but thought it interesting :o) There were different colors; which could vary by time--and perhaps location (I haven't looked into the latter aspect, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the case; it could bear further research)--as well as be used concurrently. Untinted wax was more common in the early Middle Ages; later, you get a couple colors: red (brick-red) made from vermilion and dark green (from verdigris); red has by large been the most common shade I've seen used. Some from the 16th century are blacker, thought to be from the addition of carbon. Brown seals are thought to be oxidized green in their original state. Occasionally, seals could be made of metal, like gold or lead, though this was much less common. Holbein's portrait of Georg Gisze (http://www.abcgallery.com/H/holbein/holbein22.html) shows nicely two different forms of red wax: on the table before him is a stick; on the wall behind him are wafers. There's a good webpage of a museum collection of seal facsimiles at http://www.nd.edu/~medvllib/seals/ (Notre Dame's Medieval Institute's Library) with lots of images; and an excellent introductory article on seals at the Public Record Office's website, "An Introduction to Seals": http://www.pro.gov.uk/preservation/guides/seals.pdf In print, an accessible text is the _A Guide to British Medieval Seals_ by P. D. A. Harvey and A. McGuinness, 1996. As a point of reference to the earlier discussion on seals, in period the need to protect them was recognized as well; I've seen pictures of surviving embroidered silk pouches, leather pouches, and metal cases all used to enclose and protect seals, and have read of wooden ones as well. In Michelle Brown's _Understanding Illuminated Manuscripts: a Guide to Technical Terms_ there is a lovely picture of a cloth binding made to protect a diplomatic document, with a flap sewn into the binding within which to tuck the seals (all pendant), and little metal cases within which to enclose the seals first. It would be a neat way of doing an SCA scroll, if someone were interested in tackling the binding as well as the scroll-making, and had a contact who could do a little bit of light metal-work. The seals were pendant from what looked (as I recall) to be braided cords. - --Elianora Mathewes Dominion of Myrkfaelinn, AE =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:12:39 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Opaline vellum? In a message dated 2/27/2001 11:38:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, uncial@ix.netcom.com writes: > > I get the feeling we're talking about two different Opalines! The stuff in > my sample book, and the only one I've ever seen, is like a smooth tracing > paper only heavy enough to print business cards, one of its major uses, and > comes in humungous sheets for a few dollars (if you can find it). I've used > real vellum and I'd never confuse the two! I shall definitely contact the > Limners Guild and try a sheet of their Opaline (the next time I have an > attack of solvency). Yes, they are two different papers by the same name. I'd never use the tracing paper for a scroll. But it is useful to have around. Personally, I prefer the opaline vellum to the real thing. It looks like top grade manuscript vellum only it is much easier to work with. I've had some really bad vellum over the years, but I've never had a bad piece of opaline. > Thank you for the warning about Pergamenata changing colour. I assume/hope > that would only be when exposed to natural light. It hasn't been sunny here much this winter, but in just 2 months the sample of Pergamenta I put in the window has changed. The creamy color is being replaced with a sickly gray. I don't know what effect other light sources or time will have on the paper, but to stay on the safe side, I won't be using it anymore. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:34 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re:Opaline vellum? - --=====================_1006482565==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Yes, they are two different papers by the same name. I'd never use the >tracing paper for a scroll. But it is useful to have around. Personally, I >prefer the opaline vellum to the real thing. It looks like top grade >manuscript vellum only it is much easier to work with. I've had some really >bad vellum over the years, but I've never had a bad piece of opaline. From whence cometh this real vellum opaline, good Lady Eibhlin? I would love to try a piece. Despina the ever attempting new things - --=====================_1006482565==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, they are two different papers by the same name. I'd never use the
tracing paper for a scroll. But it is useful to have around. Personally, I
prefer the opaline vellum to the real thing. It looks like top grade
manuscript vellum only it is much easier to work with. I've had some really
bad vellum over the years, but I've never had a bad piece of opaline.

From whence cometh this real vellum opaline, good Lady Eibhlin?  I would love to try a piece.

Despina
the ever attempting new things - --=====================_1006482565==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:48:22 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: shipping scrolls In a message dated 2/27/2001 8:00:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, keran@hancock.net writes: > If someone has good ideas for mailing scrolls, I would also be interested. I hate sending scrolls, It makes me a nervous wreck. I do everything I can to find a courier. Usually it is a friend traveling to events ... even out of kingdom. Perhaps someone would be able to deliver the scrolls to the appropriate kingdoms at Gulf Wars or Pennsic? If all else fails, here is what I do... as recommended by my Godfather, a former local postmaster: :-) Place a sheet of plain white paper between each scroll. Place all of the scrolls inside a wrapping of plain white paper. Place this and an extra mailing label inside a folder made of 2 sheets of corrugated cardboard cut a minimum of 1 inch on each side larger than the scroll(s) (I've also used mat board or thin sheets of wood). If it's not a short overnight delivery during a run of good weather, I place all of this inside a plastic bag and seal it with tape. If I'm sending it express mail, I use one of the boxes the post office provides, otherwise - I wrap the package with brown paper, adding extra tape around the outside edges. If I have the materials, I'll skip the brown paper wrapping and put everything inside a small box. The corners of the box will take a lot more abuse than the corners of an envelope. Write the address directly on the outer covering-do not use a separate mailing label. Make sure to insure the package. After taking all of these precautions, I still worry. Best of luck Eibhlin =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #45 ****************************