From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #38 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, February 26 2001 Volume 05 : Number 038 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: translation site [scribes]: Vellum Question Re: [scribes]: Vellum Question Re: [scribes]: Vellum Question [scribes]: The Vellum dilema Re: [scribes]: The Vellum dilema [scribes]: Hummmmm [scribes]: General reply - authenticity [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? FWD: RE: [scribes]: Hummmmm Re: FWD: RE: [scribes]: Hummmmm Re: [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? Re: [scribes]: The Vellum dilema Re: [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? [scribes]: Paper preferences ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:26:50 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: translation site - --=====================_840598296==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://translate.thibault.org/login.php3 Here ya go, Despina At 03:53 PM 2/26/2001 +0000, Russell mahee of acre wrote: >I have lost the address to the translators website amoungst 3458 >bookmarks. Would someone more organized than myself please resend the address. > >thank you, >your servant, >mahee >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >=================================================================== >To unsubscribe from this list, send email to >with a blank Subject: line and >unsubscribe scribes >in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in >the body. - --=====================_840598296==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" http://translate.thibault.org/login.php3

Here ya go,
Despina

At 03:53 PM 2/26/2001 +0000, Russell mahee of acre wrote:

I have lost the address to the translators website amoungst 3458 bookmarks. Would someone more organized than myself please resend the address.

thank you,
your servant,
mahee
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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- --=====================_840598296==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:38:40 -0500 From: Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli Subject: [scribes]: Vellum Question Greetings! Im new to the list and I am hoping someone can give me some help on a project, First thought I should say hi to Despina! (HI!!! *waves*) She did my wedding scroll that people drool over when they see it. ok on with my question I am doing a A&S project for our regional A&S march 24th. I for the first time, am painting on vellum. THe vellum I am using is frosted but you can see though it if something with heavy lines is behind it. Anyway, as I am applying the paint, as it dries, the vellum is buckling or shrinking. How can I stop this or should I just let it happen and hope for the best when it is done? One other question. The colors are very bright. I have been tempted to try something when it is done, but plan to do it on a different piece first. Im tempted to, for lack of a better term to describe this, "Tea Dye" the project when it is done to make it look "Older" Now I would not "soak" the project in the tea dye, more like dry sponge it on. I hope this is making sense. SO what ya think??? looking forward to all the ideas on this. thank you in advance for the help. GenRose - -- Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough GenRose Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children Middle Kingdom Head of House Shadow Dragon ICQ# 51429722 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:56:09 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum Question - --=====================_842357125==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > First thought I should say hi to >Despina! (HI!!! *waves*) She did my wedding scroll that >people drool over when they see it. Hi GenRose! *waves back* Thanks for the compliment. >I am doing a A&S project for our regional A&S march 24th. I >for the first time, am painting on vellum. >THe vellum I am using is frosted but you can see though it if something >with heavy lines is behind it. Are you using real vellum or paper vellum? There is a difference in how they handle and what one should do to prep them. > Anyway, as I am applying the >paint, as it dries, the vellum is buckling or shrinking. >How can I stop this or should I just let it happen and hope >for the best when it is done? Your vellum is reacting to your wet paint. First, be sure that your paint is not too wet. It should be about the consistency of heavy cream. If you aren't sure what that consistency is, go ahead and buy a pint of heavy whipping cream ($.59) and put some of it in a bottle cap. Swish your brush though it. When your paint feels the same, you have it right. You might also try not putting on so much paint at once. If you are putting it on too thick, it is not drying on the surface of the vellum, rather the vellum is trying to soak it in and this is not working, thus the buckling. >One other question. The colors are very bright. I have >been tempted to try something when it is done, but plan to >do it on a different piece first. What colors are you using? Remember, many period pieces have bright colors and it's okay. > Im tempted to, for lack >of a better term to describe this, "Tea Dye" the project >when it is done to make it look "Older" Now I would not >"soak" the project in the tea dye, more like dry sponge it >on. I hope this is making sense. I don't think I would do that, simply because you may have problems with the paint lifting or smearing as well as more buckling. Hope this helps, Despina - ---------- - ---------- Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty. -- Mark Twain - ---------- - --=====================_842357125==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

First thought I should say hi to
Despina! (HI!!! *waves*) She did my wedding scroll that
people drool over when they see it.

Hi GenRose! *waves back* Thanks for the compliment.

I am doing a A&S project for our regional A&S march 24th. I
for the first time, am painting on vellum.
THe vellum I am using is frosted but you can see though it if something with heavy lines is behind it.

Are you using real vellum or paper vellum? There is a difference in how they handle and what one should do to prep them.

Anyway, as I am applying the
paint, as it dries, the vellum is buckling or shrinking.
How can I stop this or should I just let it happen and hope
for the best when it is done?

Your vellum is reacting to your wet paint. First, be sure that your paint is not too wet. It should be about the consistency of heavy cream. If you aren't sure what that consistency is, go ahead and buy a pint of heavy whipping cream ($.59) and put some of it in a bottle cap. Swish your brush though it. When your paint feels the same, you have it right.

You might also try not putting on so much paint at once. If you are putting it on too thick, it is not drying on the surface of the vellum, rather the vellum is trying to soak it in and this is not working, thus the buckling.

One other question. The colors are very bright. I have
been tempted to try something when it is done, but plan to
do it on a different piece first.

What colors are you using? Remember, many period pieces have bright colors and it's okay.

Im tempted to, for lack
of a better term to describe this, "Tea Dye" the project
when it is done to make it look "Older" Now I would not
"soak" the project in the tea dye, more like dry sponge it
on. I hope this is making sense.

I don't think I would do that, simply because you may have problems with the paint lifting or smearing as well as more buckling.

Hope this helps,
Despina

Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty. --
Mark Twain

- --=====================_842357125==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:16:09 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum Question It's too late for the only solution I know - a heavier and better quality vellum. Next time try the heavy weight of Pergemanata. As for "tea dying" -- I suggest using an airbrush. Another method would be to add a little pigment to Dorland's Wax Medium and rub in on with a soft cloth. It might help to spray fixative first, to separate the wax from the paper and prevent it from picking up paint as you apply it. And note, this is *not* archivally sound! Eventually the wax medium might attack the paper. An oil paint certainly would, and Dorland's is made for use with oil paints. Corinna TreeGirtSea - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli" To: "scribes" Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:38 AM Subject: [scribes]: Vellum Question > Greetings! > Im new to the list and I am hoping someone can give me some > help on a project, First thought I should say hi to > Despina! (HI!!! *waves*) She did my wedding scroll that > people drool over when they see it. > > ok on with my question > > I am doing a A&S project for our regional A&S march 24th. I > for the first time, am painting on vellum. THe vellum I am > using is frosted but you can see though it if something with > heavy lines is behind it. Anyway, as I am applying the > paint, as it dries, the vellum is buckling or shrinking. > How can I stop this or should I just let it happen and hope > for the best when it is done? > > One other question. The colors are very bright. I have > been tempted to try something when it is done, but plan to > do it on a different piece first. Im tempted to, for lack > of a better term to describe this, "Tea Dye" the project > when it is done to make it look "Older" Now I would not > "soak" the project in the tea dye, more like dry sponge it > on. I hope this is making sense. > > SO what ya think??? > > looking forward to all the ideas on this. > > thank you in advance for the help. > > GenRose > > -- > Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough > GenRose > Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag > Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children > Middle Kingdom > Head of House Shadow Dragon > ICQ# 51429722 > > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:30:50 -0500 From: Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli Subject: [scribes]: The Vellum dilema WOW so many responses so fast!!! Im impressed! lol Ok to better discribe the vellum. it is paper. The clerk told me its the kind that people use lately to make their wedding invites from. It is a frosty color. I would have loved to get real vellum or sheepskin but it costs so much and this as only $4 a sheet and I bought a very large sheet. at least Movie Poster size. Im also just a beginner. Ive only been illuminating for about a year now. I cant afford all the "period type" papers and pigments (sigh someday) I mix my paints to a heavy cream. ( I cant stand it when its water color thin ) I am trying to do even coverage and painting small areas at a time. and keeping the layers even as possible also. The paints I am using are REEVES Gouache. I am using purple, yellow etc. I am doing a rendition of St Matthew fro the book of Kells. I have changed it a bit to look like a friend of mine. If you have seen this picture, he has a hand under his tunic and the other is holding a book. I have drawn the hand out of the tunic and placed a hammer in it and replaced the book with a sword. My friend is a black smith :) Once it is done, it will be very bright compared to the actual picture of St. Matthew. That is why I was tempted to "tea Dye " it. but Im sure with age it will "grow old and "dirty" :) I thank you all again. I will try the weights idea. I have taped the sides down but I will find some nice weight books to hold it down after it id dry. Ill take any advice I can get! Thanks!!! GenRose - -- Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough GenRose Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children Middle Kingdom Head of House Shadow Dragon ICQ# 51429722 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:58:18 -0800 (PST) From: Suzanne Powell Subject: Re: [scribes]: The Vellum dilema Greetings, GenRose! I, too, thought that the colors from the Book of Kells were on the dull side until I was fortunate enough to purchase an official CD of the Book of Kells. They have gone to great lenghts to reproduce the colors in the original and I was quite shocked to see how bright the colors were. So ... I wouldn't worry about how bright your colors seem -- they are probably correct. As for the paper, it seems as if you might have gotten hold of the paper that we try to warn new scribes/illuminators about. The paper "vellum" offered in the craft shops has a high acid content so that it becomes brittle after a few years. You've also encountered another of its problems in that it buckles easily when paint is applied. If you can't afford real vellum (I know I can't afford it right now), an acceptable substitute is acid-free watercolor paper. I use Arches hot press (a paper that has supposedly been in production since the late 16th century). I recommend the heavier weights of paper. A sheet of 30# Arches' hot press paper goes for about $3.50 here in Stargate (Houston, Texas). Good Luck! - -- Suzanne - --- Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli wrote: > WOW so many responses so fast!!! Im impressed! lol > > Ok to better discribe the vellum. it is paper. The clerk > told me its the kind that people use lately to make their > wedding invites from. It is a frosty color. I would have > loved to get real vellum or sheepskin but it costs so much > and this as only $4 a sheet and I bought a very large sheet. > at least Movie Poster size. Im also just a beginner. Ive > only been illuminating for about a year now. I cant afford > all the "period type" papers and pigments (sigh someday) > > I mix my paints to a heavy cream. ( I cant stand it when its > water color thin ) I am trying to do even coverage and > painting small areas at a time. and keeping the layers even > as possible also. > > The paints I am using are REEVES Gouache. I am using > purple, yellow etc. I am doing a rendition of St Matthew fro > the book of Kells. I have changed it a bit to look like a > friend of mine. If you have seen this picture, he has a > hand under his tunic and the other is holding a book. I > have drawn the hand out of the tunic and placed a hammer in > it and replaced the book with a sword. My friend is a black > smith :) > > Once it is done, it will be very bright compared to the > actual picture of St. Matthew. That is why I was tempted to > "tea Dye " it. but Im sure with age it will "grow old and > "dirty" :) > > I thank you all again. I will try the weights idea. I > have taped the sides down but I will find some nice weight > books to hold it down after it id dry. Ill take any advice > I can get! Thanks!!! > > GenRose > > -- > Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough > GenRose > Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag > Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children > Middle Kingdom > Head of House Shadow Dragon > ICQ# 51429722 ===== ============================================================ Lady Suzanne de la Fert� Stargate/Westgate, Kingdom of Ansteorra - ------------------------------------------------------------ Suzanne C. Powell Houston, Texas suzanne_powell@yahoo.com ============================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:15:00 -0500 From: Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli Subject: [scribes]: Hummmmm Looks like I might need to rethink this project. I still have time luckily. Keep the ideas coming though. Ill keep everyone informed as to what I end up doing. Thanks! GR - -- Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough GenRose Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children Middle Kingdom Head of House Shadow Dragon ICQ# 51429722 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:45:16 +0100 From: "Brahdelt" Subject: [scribes]: General reply - authenticity Greetings, I have decided to write one letter to in response to several letters, so > Kayleigh McWhyte: I enjoy being part of a historically-based group, but I don't re-enact the times of the Dark Ages. The Plague, travel entirely by foot, lack of good hygeine... Those are things I could do without.< Especially without the Plague, of course! And as far as hygiene is concerned: Vikings were a very hygienic nation, confirmed in the sources :-). Surely, we cannot go too far, because it would kill the entertaining part of it. > Kayleigh McWhyte: I don't quite consider myself a 'weekend warrior', but neither do I consider myself a 'period police' sort of person. Both are opposite extremes... One is just there to have a good time without care of authenticity and/or consideration for the work put into the events, while the other is ultra-concerned with doing everything the way they did back then, to the point of telling others (including newcomers) that their clothing/tent/etc is not 'period' and it should be done like so.... Or just being especially rude to others simply because they do not take the same care to re-enact history as they do.< I know what you mean because we had such an example among our people: there is a girl from one of the groups, she was fairly new to re-enactment but she managed to prepare for her a set of beautiful historic XV c. dresses. They were really lovely and she would get many positive opinions and congratulations, but... from the moment she came she started exchanging remarks with her sister about the other girls' costumes, how bad they are, unhistoric, no headdresses, ect. Had she been nice and helpful, we would have treated her as an expert. But then we just disliked her for her rude behaviour. >Kayleigh McWhyte: I take care to keep Coca-cola/Pepsi bottles under the table, when my glass contains 'black mead' (otherwise known as soda/cola/pop) if I don't care to have the usual water or unsweetened cold tea served at our events... There are no laws stating my tent must be a medieval one, but it is encouraged that we hide sneakers and watches when we can.< That's the point!Hide the Coca-cola bottles, take off your watch and Adidas shoes! > It's not that we don't respect the medieval atmosphere. Far from it. We love it... but we have a tendency of making sport/fun of the people who just can't relax and realize that it's all recreation, not real, and meant to be exactly what you described -- a hobby. Sadly, those people are out there, and it discourages newcomers. We're the sort that try to keep that from happening.< In fact, our newcomers are much more engaged into recreation and reality of the stuff than the old ones! They have so much energy and ideas, and that's great because they are the fresh blood, that can re-inspire the old members of the group to work upon their costumes and activities. >Enid: The rules are obeyed more or less... but even the rules vary event to event, location to location.< As far as the rules of the particular events: we agreed that the decision of the autocrat (that's how you call a person organising the event, right?) is final. If he says 'my tournament is dated XII c.', all the invited guests know they should bring XII c. clothes, armours, there will be XII c. music and e.g.: games. The word of an autocrat is sacred and if you do not agree with it (you don't like the specific century, you don't have the costume), you won't go. I am still talking about people united in the Treaty of the Borders (around 150 people) - this rule works rather nicely, last year I visited the XV c. event organised by the allied group and then after two weeks my group organised a XII c. event (by the way, it was a disaster! it was raining all the time, since Friday afternoon until Sunday noon, when all the people were leaving. We spent the weekend at a local school, where we had lodgings, and had a figthing tournament at the Gym Hall and a feast in the school kitchen!...) But all parcticipants were prepared for both: XII and XV centuries. >Enid: But the majority don't go super-authentic in everything they do.< As I wrote earlier, of course, you cannot be super-authentic and historic in everything. For example, I am not going to resign from a toothbrush and a toothpaste, but the idea is that I try to keep them hidden and carry them in some historically explainable bag or box, not a XX c. vanity bag. When you look at the pictures after the event, it is nice not to have any modern additions like mobile phone on the table next to a beautifully arranged scribe's workshop. >Ellen of the Scholars: We occasionally even have trouble with people who wear elf-ears or plastic vampire teeth as part of their "medieval" costumes. (Fortunately, these are against the rules and actively discouraged!)< Two years ago there was a tournament held in one of the parks in Warsaw by the group which exists outside the Treaty of the Borders (so 'not ours' as I might say :-)). During the battle recreation there was a boy who had some tunic over a T-shirt and a small modern army shovel in his hand! Not very medieval, I must say! So, to sum up, it all varies from place to place, from person to person even. Everybody must ask themselves a question, where to put the boundary, what is the most important in this hobby. Best regards to you all, Finnarwen of Formendor Principality of Draconia (Joanna Zelazko Warsaw, Poland) =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:37:57 -0800 From: Ken Stoner Subject: [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? I will be in New York this Friday. Where can I see manuscripts? What about other cool medieval art? Ken S =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:51:55 -0500 (EST) From: Dianiam/Amethyst Subject: FWD: RE: [scribes]: Hummmmm - ------Original Message------ From: Dianiam/Amethyst To: Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli Sent: February 26, 2001 8:39:48 PM GMT Subject: RE: [scribes]: Hummmmm Hi Rose, I am also a beginner Scribe. However, I can offer some help in this instance. I have spent the last 2 years taking scribal classes at Pennsic War. It is here that I first learned about Scribal Arts and the techniques and materials that were used during the different time periods and now. The most important thing that I can tell you is that (arguably)one of the most popular types of paper used for Scribal Arts is "Arches HOT PRESSED 140 LB. paper". As the scribes from the North East and parts of Aethelmarc will attest to, this paper holds up very well to both Illumination and Calligraphy. It is also very forgiving to "mistakes" ...or should I say the correction techniques used to fixed mistakes. It is also the type of paper the is used in most of the classes at Pennsic War, where almost everyone will tell you, is one of the most unforgiving environments to do the Scribal Arts (especially for guilding). To explain the difference between hot pressed and cold pressed paper, I will have to defer to my brother and sister scribes in the East Kingdom and Aethelmarc. I fear that I could not give an appropriate explanation between the two. However, there is a distinct difference. On the vellum topic, I had the opportunity at (where-else) Pennsic, to work with true vellum. It is a time staking process to prep the vellum for use and in working with it for both calligraphy and illumination. I am definitely not qualified to talk about this subject in depth. However, from my class, I can tell you that humidity, environment, and preparation of the surface are key to the outcome of the final product. From what I have seen on the list is that most scribes save this medium for VERY special occasions (like A&S competitions or a very special scroll). The expense is high for true vellum and the time is enormous. There are other types of paper that some scribes do use (permegnata(sp?), Bristol Board, etc.). And I am sure that there will be others who will have more in-depth information for you on this list. However, I hope that this helps you out somewhat. In Best Regards, Dianaim ingen Eochada Chatelaine, Shire of Smoking Rocks - ------Original Message------ From: Ed Roehre/Patresha Zeoli To: scribes Sent: February 26, 2001 6:15:00 PM GMT Subject: [scribes]: Hummmmm Looks like I might need to rethink this project. I still have time luckily. Keep the ideas coming though. Ill keep everyone informed as to what I end up doing. Thanks! GR - -- Lady Geniveve Rose D'Glendalough GenRose Baronial Childrens' Guild Leader of Andelcrag Deputy to Pentamere Regional Minister of Children Middle Kingdom Head of House Shadow Dragon ICQ# 51429722 =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:12 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: FWD: RE: [scribes]: Hummmmm - --=====================_858680337==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dianiam and GenRose, Dianiam wrote: >To explain the difference between hot pressed and cold pressed paper, I >will have to defer to my brother and sister scribes in the East Kingdom >and Aethelmarc. I fear that I could not give an appropriate explanation >between the two. However, there is a distinct difference. The difference is easiest explained in terms of wrinkled clothes and an iron. Rough paper has a texture similar to that of an all cotton shirt left in the laundry basket for 3 days after being dried - lots of deep ridges, not smooth at all. Cold press paper is a wrinkle free cotton/poly blend shirt left in the laundry basket for 2 days after being dried - better, but one still has definite ridges and the paper is not smooth. (wrinkle free is not completely wrinkle free, trust me on this one). Hot press paper is either shirt after it has been ironed - completely smooth and flat. Dianiam Wrote: >There are other types of paper that some scribes do use (permegnata(sp?), >Bristol Board, etc.). And I am sure that there will be others who will >have more in-depth information for you on this list. However, I hope that >this helps you out somewhat. Pergemanada is a wonderful surface, often compared to real vellum, but it doesn't need the intensive prep that some vellum does before you can work on it. Bristol Board is a great surface as well. This can be had in pads at many art/craft stores for very low prices. Often made of 100% cotton rag and either ph free or acid neutral, it also holds its surface tension and behaves more as vellum, with the paint and such sitting on top of the surface, rather than sinking into it. The problem that some people experience with Arches 140# hot press is that it is a watercolor paper. Intended to be completely wet before being used in order to soak up the color. Vellum is a surface on which the color sits, rather than sinking into. Mistakes are easily corrected, so long as the paper has retained its surface tension and the color has not soaked into the paper. These are quick answers but hopefully they shed a little light on the paper issue. In Pursuit of the Dream, Trying to be helpful, Despina - --=====================_858680337==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Dianiam and GenRose,

Dianiam wrote:

To explain the difference between hot pressed and cold pressed paper, I will have to defer to my brother and sister scribes in the East Kingdom and Aethelmarc. I fear that I could not give an appropriate explanation between the two. However, there is a distinct difference.

The difference is easiest explained in terms of wrinkled clothes and an iron. Rough paper has a texture similar to that of an all cotton shirt left in the laundry basket for 3 days after being dried - lots of deep ridges, not smooth at all. Cold press paper is a wrinkle free cotton/poly blend shirt left in the laundry basket for 2 days after being dried - better, but one still has definite ridges and the paper is not smooth. (wrinkle free is not completely wrinkle free, trust me on this one). Hot press paper is either shirt after it has been ironed - completely smooth and flat.

Dianiam Wrote:

There are other types of paper that some scribes do use (permegnata(sp?), Bristol Board, etc.). And I am sure that there will be others who will have more in-depth information for you on this list. However, I hope that this helps you out somewhat.

Pergemanada is a wonderful surface, often compared to real vellum, but it doesn't need the intensive prep that some vellum does before you can work on it.

Bristol Board is a great surface as well. This can be had in pads at many art/craft stores for very low prices. Often made of 100% cotton rag and either ph free or acid neutral, it also holds its surface tension and behaves more as vellum, with the paint and such sitting on top of the surface, rather than sinking into it.

The problem that some people experience with Arches 140# hot press is that it is a watercolor paper. Intended to be completely wet before being used in order to soak up the color. Vellum is a surface on which the color sits, rather than sinking into. Mistakes are easily corrected, so long as the paper has retained its surface tension and the color has not soaked into the paper.

These are quick answers but hopefully they shed a little light on the paper issue.

In Pursuit of the Dream,
Trying to be helpful,
Despina

- --=====================_858680337==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:16:49 -0500 From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Subject: Re: [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? Greetings! > I will be in New York this Friday. Where can I see manuscripts? What about > other cool medieval art? The Pierpont-Morgan library is the drooly place for manuscripts, although the Cloisters also has some nice stuff (besides lots of "other cool medieval art"). And I would never miss the MMA if I were in NY. Nicolaa =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:17:02 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: The Vellum dilema > If you can't afford real vellum (I know I can't afford it right now), an > acceptable substitute is acid-free watercolor paper. I use Arches hot press (a > paper that has supposedly been in production since the late 16th century). I > recommend the heavier weights of paper. A sheet of 30# Arches' hot press paper > goes for about $3.50 here in Stargate (Houston, Texas). I swear up and down by Arches 140# hot press. Best stuff I was ever turned on to, and I just about won't use anything else! It's been made in France since 1492, so it's even period, but I'm quite sure they did not illuminate MSS. on it. Still, the stuff can take a lot of punishment and is acid free so you don't ever have to worry about it becoming brittle with age. It corrects like a dream!! I love it a lot! I buy my 22" x 30" sheets at my local art store for about $5 a sheet. It's gone up in price the last few years - used to be about $3 a sheet, but still, I don't mind paying the extra price for such a good paper. Worth every penny, if you ask me!! ~Saradwen, who, by the way, welcomes all the new scribes who've joined us in the past few weeks! Hi, everyone!!! =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: I'm going to New York! What should I see? On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings! > > > > I will be in New York this Friday. Where can I see manuscripts? What about > > other cool medieval art? > > The Pierpont-Morgan library is the drooly place for manuscripts, although > the Cloisters also has some nice stuff (besides lots of "other cool medieval > art"). And I would never miss the MMA if I were in NY. Let me recommend Staten Island. Nice ferry ride, visit the Tibetan Museum, and Richmondtown Restoration (with a very early wood-frame house from the time of Dutch settlement, ca. 1670 -- very medieval-looking, if you get into folk architecture). - -- johannes v.n. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:02:11 EST From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Paper preferences Everyone has their own favorite papers--it depends on the type of pen you like to use, the style of painting you're doing to decorate your scroll--even just what feels best to you. Personally, I don't use Bristol board as I've found some inks tend to bleed on it and I just don't like the look of the surface. But that's just MY taste and I don't expect others to agree with it. I do like working on watercolor paper and I really, really like heavyweight Pergamenata. I had the chance to work on real vellum once and that was wonderful, if I could afford it, I would use it LOTS. There are many other great calligraphy papers, the problem is that most of them aren't heavy enough to put a wax seal on for a scroll. Luighseach OK, now we've done paper, anyone want to debate nibs? =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #38 ****************************