From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #18 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Saturday, February 17 2001 Volume 05 : Number 018 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Starting with the basics Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:22:58 EST From: Floriligeum@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Starting with the basics - --part1_12.8e19156.27bf3a82_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, here is my first question. As I am really just getting started I want to start my shopping for supplies & tools. I have read a variety of lists of tools ... but I am undecided as to what kind of pen(s) I should buy. So I thought I would ask the group which pen(s) they would suggest I get. I don't necessarily want to start with cheap stuff to save money, if I will need to replace it as I get better. Better to buy something that won't frustrate me as I am learning and will last, this said I don't want to mortgage my house for my "supplies kit." I would appreciate it if you would give a short description of what you like & don't like about the pens you are suggesting. Thank you all, in advance, Sarah - --part1_12.8e19156.27bf3a82_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, here is my first question.  As I am really just getting started I want to
start my shopping for supplies & tools.  I have read a variety of lists of
tools ... but I am undecided as to what kind of pen(s) I should buy.  So I
thought I would ask the group which pen(s) they would suggest I get.  I don't
necessarily want to start with cheap stuff to save money, if I will need to
replace it as I get better.  Better to buy something that won't frustrate me
as I am learning and will last, this said I don't want to mortgage my house
for my "supplies kit."

I would appreciate it if you would give a short description of what you like &
don't like about the pens you are suggesting.

Thank you all, in advance,

Sarah - --part1_12.8e19156.27bf3a82_boundary-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:10:38 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0986D.AD0C5E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sarah, Start with a steel dip pen. Speedball nibs are pretty good in the = larger sizes, up to C-2. Brause come in metric, 1/2mm to 5mm, and I = find them the least frustrating steel pen. If you have a light hand and = want a pen with some flexibility, use a Mitchel Rexel. Any new nib = should be cleaned to remove the oil than protects in in storage. Most = can be cleaned with alcohol, ammonia, pen cleaner or spit. Rexel nibs = should be boiled in water for a minute or two. Any new nib should be = wiped with gum arabic to improve the control of the ink flow. Use any penholder that is comfortable in your hand. Do not use fountain pen ink in a dip pen. It's too thin and will fall = out instead of flowing. Walnut ink is great for practice - get the kind = you mix yourself from dry form, which Paper & Ink Books carries. = Yasutomo sumi ink (tall black bottle) is good, too, and very affordable. = Higgins Eternal, Calli, Winsor & Newton - all these are good. Do not = use the india ink made for drafting. Gouache works well, too, properliy = diluted and with a little gum arabic added. Ivory black and cadmium red = deep are both great for practice because they flow nicely. Don't bother with "calligraphic parchment papers". Most of them stink, = and none of them look much like parchment. Copier paper, bond, typing = paper, calligraphic grid, all are good for beginning. Eventually start = to practice on good paper. An 11x17" sheet of Diploma Parchment (not a = "parchment paper" in spite of the name) costs about 75 cents. You can = write on both sides, so it lasts for a lot of practice and is good = enough for a finished piece, too. Nideggan is also a lovely practice = and finish paper. Corinna TreeGirtSea ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Floriligeum@aol.com=20 To: scribes@castle.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: [scribes]: Starting with the basics OK, here is my first question. As I am really just getting started I = want to=20 start my shopping for supplies & tools. I have read a variety of = lists of=20 tools ... but I am undecided as to what kind of pen(s) I should buy. = So I=20 thought I would ask the group which pen(s) they would suggest I get. = I don't=20 necessarily want to start with cheap stuff to save money, if I will = need to=20 replace it as I get better. Better to buy something that won't = frustrate me=20 as I am learning and will last, this said I don't want to mortgage my = house=20 for my "supplies kit."=20 I would appreciate it if you would give a short description of what = you like &=20 don't like about the pens you are suggesting.=20 Thank you all, in advance,=20 Sarah=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0986D.AD0C5E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sarah,
 
Start with a steel dip pen.  = Speedball nibs=20 are pretty good in the larger sizes,  up to C-2.  Brause come = in=20 metric, 1/2mm to 5mm, and I find them the least frustrating steel = pen.  If=20 you have a light hand and want a pen with some flexibility, use a = Mitchel=20 Rexel.  Any new nib should be cleaned to remove the oil than = protects in in=20 storage.  Most can be cleaned with alcohol, ammonia, pen cleaner or = spit.  Rexel nibs should be boiled in water for a minute or = two.  Any=20 new nib should be wiped with gum arabic to improve the control of the = ink=20 flow.
 
Use any penholder that is comfortable = in your=20 hand.
 
Do not use fountain pen ink in a dip = pen. =20 It's too thin and will fall out instead of flowing.  Walnut ink is = great=20 for practice - get the kind you mix yourself from dry form, which Paper = &=20 Ink Books carries.  Yasutomo sumi ink (tall black bottle) is good, = too, and=20 very affordable.  Higgins Eternal, Calli, Winsor & Newton - all = these=20 are good.  Do not use the india ink made for drafting.  = Gouache works=20 well, too, properliy diluted and with a little gum arabic added.  = Ivory=20 black and cadmium red deep are both great for practice because they flow = nicely.
 
Don't bother with "calligraphic = parchment=20 papers".  Most of them stink, and none of them look much like=20 parchment.  Copier paper, bond, typing paper, calligraphic grid, = all are=20 good for beginning.  Eventually start to practice on good = paper.  An=20 11x17" sheet of Diploma Parchment (not a "parchment paper" in spite of = the name)=20 costs about 75 cents.  You can write on both sides, so it lasts for = a lot=20 of practice and is good enough for a finished piece, too.  Nideggan = is also=20 a lovely practice and finish paper.
 
Corinna
TreeGirtSea
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Floriligeum@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 8:22=20 PM
Subject: [scribes]: Starting = with the=20 basics

OK, here is my first question.  As I am = really just=20 getting started I want to
start my shopping for supplies & = tools.=20  I have read a variety of lists of
tools ... but I am = undecided as to=20 what kind of pen(s) I should buy.  So I
thought I would ask = the group=20 which pen(s) they would suggest I get.  I don't
necessarily = want to=20 start with cheap stuff to save money, if I will need to
replace it = as I=20 get better.  Better to buy something that won't frustrate me =
as I am=20 learning and will last, this said I don't want to mortgage my house =
for my=20 "supplies kit."

I would appreciate it if you would give a = short=20 description of what you like &
don't like about the pens you = are=20 suggesting.

Thank you all, in advance,

Sarah=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0986D.AD0C5E20-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:28:07 -0500 From: "Sally Burnell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics Sarah wrote: OK, here is my first question. As I am really just getting started I want to start my shopping for supplies & tools. I have read a variety of lists of tools ... but I am undecided as to what kind of pen(s) I should buy. So I thought I would ask the group which pen(s) they would suggest I get. I don't necessarily want to start with cheap stuff to save money, if I will need to replace it as I get better. Better to buy something that won't frustrate me as I am learning and will last, this said I don't want to mortgage my house for my "supplies kit." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- OK, my favourite nibs are the Brause nibs. I've tried Speedball, I've tried Mitchell, and nothing comes close to the Brause nibs for sheer workability! They are just superior in quality and now that I have used them, I will never go back to those other brands! If you're intimidated by using dip pens, try starting off with a simple Shaeffer calligraphic cartridge pen. I used them early on to develop a feel for the letter forms, but the main drawback is that the ink you have to use is water soluable, which means not really terribly permanent and it will blot if you spill any water on it. If you don't want to even go that far and are just starting out learning letter forms, get one of those cheap calligraphic magic markers that are only about $1 at any craft or art store. I buy 'em by the carload and give them away to beginning scribes who just want to start getting a feel for letter forms - heck, at only about $1 a piece, it isn't costing me a whole lot! Also, Brause makes pen holders which are also superior to the Speedball holders that I used for so many years. And the nice thing is that the Brause nibs and pen holders I have I got for free from Lady Katarina Peregrine (who is on this list and is from my own home shire!). For her, the Brauses did not work, and every scribe is going to have differing experiences with different equipment. With me, the Brauses are a dream come true! So try different equipment until you settle on what "feels" right for you. You'll know it when you find it! Best of luck! ~Saradwen Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:46:14 EST From: KMcWhyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Starting with the basics 'Allo. I'm just going to give a list of the supplies I currently use; mind you, none of this is the 'period' way of doing things right now, but these tools help me facilitate the scrolls assigned to me in a clean and timely manner (plus with my background from an art education, these tools have been with me for ten + years now and shouldn't be retired just yet....) I've used Speedball nibs, they're fine, but not quite so reliable when it comes to maintaining a steady inkflow. In the last year, I invested in a pair of Rotring calligraphy pens. These cost $17 each, depending on where you go, come with a few replacement nibs, and a packet of waterproof black ink cartridges. They're clean, produce very crisp lines, and help me put some scrolls out in as short a time frame as 2 weeks to 4 days (!) though I prefer 3 weeks. The pens are still only as reliable as you treat them; like any other nib, unless kept relatively clean, the ink will clog or dry up. Each cartridge lasts 1.5 to 2 scrolls each, depending on the amount of text I use it for. Parchment: As Saradwen said, do not use calligraphy paper. Watercolor paper or bond will work fine if you choose an acid-free stock; otherwise I would recommend Stonehenge or Strathmore from may days in Printmaking classes during my last years of college. Stonehenge will accept even printer's ink, and not bleed. Cost of paper varies, but is usually somewhere in the range of $2.50 - $3.00 for a rather large size sheet. Try to remember you want the paper to still be there years down the road, not deteriorated and yellowed unless that's the look you're going for. Brushes: 000 watercolor (synthetic or sable), will give you good lines and details. An Alvin ruling pen will also give you ultra-crisp straight lines if you know how to use it. 000's are a little expensive at art supply shops. Sniff around and you'll likely find some much cheaper than $8.00 as you would at a commercial shop. Compass and ruler: Good for making those blazons for the coat of arms/AoA's. Bezier (sp?) Curve: This is like a French curve, only geared more towards those of us who are too clumsy to use the actual French curve, like myself. It looks like a blue snake, which is a long strip of metal covered in blue rubber -- bendable to conform to the curves you want to trace/make. Something to keep your scrolls in: Cheap - a plastic 'Xerox' folio. They come in pretty colors these days, too! Misc: Paints -- Gouache is expensive. Watercolor can be used as a substitute if not thinned too much. Some people use mixed media, ranging from colored pencils to their own homemade crushed mineral egg tempera. Eraser shield -- Dirt cheap. A shield is useful overall, to keep oily fingerprints from smudging or picking up ink and 'reprinting' it elsewhere. 2H pencils -- Also cheap. H denotes the hardness of the pencil; you will get lighter lines as you increase the number on that pencil (3H, 4H, etc.) Kneaded Gum Eraser -- Doesn't leave shavings behind. Cheap. Paint tray/pallet -- Wheel type or metal with little indentations for paint are good. Otherwise an ice cube tray can do the trick too. Water jar -- Easy enough to find in the house. A place for your supplies -- 'Art Bins', or fishing boxes. Either offers a tray or series of compartments for all your stuff. Just try not to use a USED fishing box... fishy-smelling supplies stink. Literally. ;) As I said before.... these are just some of the supplies I use. It's up to you, really, which direction you want to go in, but most of this list will keep you under a decent budget. Pick what tools you feel comfortable with, and work it from there.... Nothing says you have to start with period tools, or can't pick them up later on. Good luck supply shopping. :) Kayleigh McWhyte, Mercenary Scribe (East) E.Frank, Long Island NY =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #18 ****************************