From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V5 #17 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, February 15 2001 Volume 05 : Number 017 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Hello! - private reply from a List Member - archaeo-epigrapher [scribes]: Welcome, Sarah and Lani! Re: [scribes]: Hello! [scribes]: reminder: this is the *scribes* list [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. Re: [scribes]: Apology [scribes]: Re: [scribes] FTI and lamb Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. [scribes]: Gutenberg demythologized? Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:56:58 -0700 From: "Dave and Lani Kyea" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello! - private reply from a List Member - archaeo-epigrapher Your message of hello was most informative and supportive-Thank you. I don't believe we have met because my husband and I have never attended a meeting there in Faywood Springs NM. Actually we travel little- He goes into a town(about I am pretty much tied down here at our ranch up in the NE corner of NM near the area known as the Ogan or Celtic Corridor of SE Colorado and the Oklahoma Panhandle. It is so wonderful to have found this scribe group to bring me into scribal community which makes the SCA very real to me at last-not just a bunch of pictures in magazine and newsletters. Thanks again-----Lani - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello! - private reply from a List Member - archaeo-epigrapher > Greetings Dave and Lani and welcome to the SCA! > > I'm posting this off list to you as most of the folk on the Scribes List only know me as an old SCA member but a scribe newbie, and I wouldn't want to "disillusion" them :) > > If you are as near to Faywood Hot Springs as I think you are, then perhaps I've even sat accross from you in a resturant and not known it - assuming you were there in the early 90's when I came seeking the Ogam petroglyhic controversy of real archaeology vs. epigraphy vs. mystic writers. I didn't find out much real evidence for Celtic petroglyhs there, or my own real interest which is Egyptian- despite several non-pro folk who tried to convince me of same, but I have to admit that they (the alleged Ogam Celtic petroglyphics were pretty close to medieval Ogam script of Scotland - which I saw in my travels there in the mid-70's, so I will concede the point for the sake of argument for your development of a persona of a descendant of ancient Celts who intermarried with your native American tribe and created you, as their daughter. > > What is likely to me however, is not likely to be accepted by the Herald's College of the SCA as they are very scholarly, and you are right to seek proper authentication. Re: Druids and Celts - these are worlds apart in time - Druids being at least in the pre-500 ad period, but no one really can report them as far back as 2000 BC which is the carbon dating on your petroglyphs as I recall from my studies in those days. > > I do recall however some evidence by Thor Heyerdahl that stated that ancient Egyptians did in fact reach South America, and perhaps they influenced the Aztec and Incan's - and they also travelled to the British Isles during pre-history - so it's possible that there may be some connection there for you to find. > > I just thought you'd like some info from a fellow archaelogist (more than an amateur, but no professional standing I'm afraid). By the way I did have a lovely week soaking in those mineral hot springs and eating all that great vegetarian food! > > I'm afraid that you are correct in that you are far from the beaten paths of the Knowne Worlde down there in Southwestern New Mexico (unless someone knows of a smaller "off the map" group near you - but I'm happy that you haven't let this put you off from joining the SCA and perhaps an occasional event will be possible for you, even though the enearest is 5 hours away. The SCA encroaches new lands every year, so it's just a matter of time.... > > Yours in Service to the Dream, I am > > Alt Andreas von Sohren, PCS > Baron Jaegersberg > living on the soggy plains of the Barony of Dreiburgen, > Kingdom of CAID > > > > > "Dave and Lani Kyea" wrote: > > > > Greetings to all who may read this my letter of introduction. > > I like Sarah Dressler have just joined the scribes list and am writing to introduce myself as instructed. I have never been fortunate enough to attend a SCA event of any type ----I truly live in the hinterlands (north eastern plains of New Mexico The Llano Estacado area) of the Outlands Kingdom in the state of New Mexico along the border. The closest events to me are the ones held in Amarillo Texas. Albuquerque is over 5 hrs. away and Amarillo only 3. > > I have yet to choose a name and persona but like you Sarah I want to follow the way of the Scribe. I have been researching some, studying and practicing . Just purchased a book on illumination and am working on some practice pages in my artist journal.. I was so delighted to find this site! > > Not far from our ranch are carvings believed to be of Celtic origin----carvings upon sandstone cliff facings in Ogam script----It is these as inspiration that I want to build my persona. My genetic heritage is Scot/Irish and Native American and I would like to carry this fact into my persona----In the research done by other SCA members has anyone run across any evidence of any references to support the structure of my persona as a daughter of a Druid priest stranded on the Llano Estacado and a Native American woman or preferably the daughter or grand daughter of a Druid Priestess mother and Native American warrior father. > > Also I am a spinner and weaver of wool. I raise the Cotswold and the Churro sheep. I dye with plants. I am an herbalist for people and animals and not only gather and use wild plants but have a fair garden of them. We raise sheep, goats, cattle and have 3 Pyrenees dogs and 2 cats. I have had two Irish Wolfhounds and am looking for another. I am an artist/rancher, a semi-reclusive, individualist, born- to- the- purple woman of vintage age. Living with my husband and animals on an isolated ranch without a light on the horizon (have to admit we do live down in a low place) I am content not to leave our holding for weeks at a time. I serve on several boards but attend most meetings by conference calls. We cared for several throw-away-children and raised one we call our son. Lance who now lives in Calif with his own sons. We are very proud of Lance and his family. > > Are there any suggestions from you experienced members and scribes for such new hatchlings as Sarah and myself? Any sites, books etc. you suggest to hurry us along in our baby steps? Thank you all in advance for your help.............Lani----who is very happy to be among you scribes > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Floriligeum@aol.com > > To: scribes@castle.org > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 8:22 PM > > Subject: [scribes]: Hello! > > > > > > Hello, > > > > My name is Sarah, I am new to the SCA, so new in fact that this past weekend > > was the first all day event that I have attended. (East Kingdom Bardic > > Championships) As you have now probably guessed I am in the East Kingdom, > > more specifically in the shire of Caer Adamant, which is located in Delaware. > > I have been interested in the middle ages since I was in high school (a LONG > > time ago) but have never had any way to share that interest. I discovered > > the SCA a little over a year ago while doing research on what kind of flowers > > were carried in weddings in the middle ages, for a wedding I did flowers for. > > > > > > Anyway, I have been slowly finding my way into the SCA. I can sew a straight > > line, but am not destined to become a seamstress, nor am I ever likely to > > learn to become an expert in the art of period cooking arts. I have no > > interest in the military arts, but do have a back ground in fine art. I have > > a BFA in Metals/Crafts from the University of the Arts, though I no longer > > work in metals. I have done some calligraphy off & on as friends & > > organizations needed signs, posters, etc. I am sure you are all familiar with > > such requests. I have never done any illumination, but am eager to learn. > > On Saturday, as I sat in Court watching the scrolls being given out I became > > more & more fascinated by them. I think that I have found a niche in the SCA > > that I am really, really excited about. I am hoping to find someone > > reasonably close to me, to help me learn how to get started in the process of > > learning the art of the scribe. As I search for a mentor I will continue my > > search for information on the Internet, and in books, as well as starting to > > acquire the basic tools necessary to pursue the craft. > > > > I am so glad to have found so many helpful resources online & I look forward > > to reading the posts here. > > > > Sarah Dressler (as of this time I have yet to decide on an SCA name). > > St. Georges, DE > __________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ > > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:15:16 -0600 (CST) From: sburnell@raex.com Subject: [scribes]: Welcome, Sarah and Lani! Sarah and Lani, Warmest welcome to this Scribe's list! Like M. Katarina, M. Johannes and others, I can also count myself among the "Aulde Phartes"! I've been scribing now for 22 of my 23½ years in the Society, and like M. Katarina, I had to largely teach myself. But take heart - if I can do it, anyone can! Lani, since you are the more isolated of the two, at least you have access to the 'Net, on which you will find MANY lovely sites to study Illuminated Manuscripts! Might I recommend the search engine Dogpile.com, a favourite one here at the library at which I work. It is what is called a "meta-search" engine, in that it can search multiple search engines like Yahoo, Thunderstone, AltaVista, LookSmart, GoTo and more. Just type in "Illuminated Manuscripts" and see how many hits you get! It can get a wee bit overwhelming, but believe me, the more you get into this, the BIGGER your bookmark file for scribey stuff is going to become! Also, when I get home from work tonight and am in front of my own computer, Lani and Sarah, if it is OK with you, I will send you both a copy of an article that I wrote for our Kingdom newsletter, the Pale, called "The Essential Scribe's Bookshelf". It will give you a list of good sources to begin searching for the kind of information you will want! I think you'll both find that useful as new scribes! Please feel free to ask us ANYTHING! Honest! We don't bite, we love to share what we know and we can teach you all kinds of goodies! And if you ever see us launch into a hot and heavy discussion on some arcane topic that you don't understand (it does happen from time to time among us "Aulde Phartes"!), please feel free to jump in and ask what we are talking about! We'll be more than glad to explain what things mean! Welcome again, and may you find great joy and adventure in your journeys as scribes! ~THLady Saradwen Ariandalen Marche of Gwyntarian (Akron/Kent, OH) Midrealm =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:19:10 -0700 From: "Dave and Lani Kyea" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C09738.BCDAEA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cu Drag/Amy L. I thank you for your welcome and I am looking forward to = the falafel instructions to try. You can't imagine how much I am = inspired and excited already by the connection to SCA coommunity = through this list. Thank you---Lani Kyea=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil=20 To: Dave and Lani Kyea ; Floriligeum@aol.com ; scribes@castle.org=20 Cc: Scribe's List=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hello! At 11:53 PM 2/14/2001 -0700, Dave and Lani Kyea wrote: Old Phart Johannes v.n Greetings from a new kid on the block = (chopping? stone? ice?) ' Thank you for your greeting to Sarah which I am = taking to include me as i am also a new to the list child and admirer of you = scribal Old Phaarts too. ----Lani ----who is looking to you not = only for scribal support but I could sure use a new way to fix ground lamb. Lani, I have requested that my husband, a cook of some small note, send you = a wonderous pre-1600 recipie for falafel made with ground lamb. It is = suburb! Welcome to the scribes list, may your time with us increase your = desire to strive for more. Cu Drag, Despina de la Brasov (not one of the old pharts) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- Quot Libros Quam Breve Tempus.=20 So Many Books, So Little Time - ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C09738.BCDAEA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cu Drag/Amy L.  I thank you for = your welcome=20 and I am looking forward to the falafel instructions  to try.  = You=20 can't imagine how much I am inspired and excited already  by the = connection=20 to SCA coommunity through this list.  Thank you---Lani Kyea =
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Amy L. = Hornburg=20 Heilveil
To: Dave and Lani Kyea ; = Floriligeum@aol.com ; scribes@castle.org
Sent: Thursday, February 15, = 2001 7:17=20 AM
Subject: Re: [scribes]: = Hello!

At 11:53 PM 2/14/2001 -0700, Dave and = Lani Kyea=20 wrote:
Old Phart Johannes v.n  Greetings = from a=20 new kid on the block (chopping?
stone?  ice?) '  Thank = you for=20 your greeting to Sarah which I am taking to
include me as i am = also a new=20 to the list  child and admirer of you scribal
Old Phaarts=20 too.          ----Lani = - ----who=20 is looking to you not only for
scribal support but I could sure = use a new=20 way to fix ground lamb.

Lani,
I have requested = that my=20 husband, a cook of some small note, send you a wonderous pre-1600 = recipie for=20 falafel made with ground lamb.  It is suburb!

Welcome to = the=20 scribes list, may your time with us increase your desire to strive for = more.

Cu Drag,
Despina de la Brasov
(not one of the old=20 pharts)
Quot Libros Quam Breve Tempus.
So Many Books, So = Little=20 Time
 - ------=_NextPart_000_007D_01C09738.BCDAEA00-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:50:15 -0800 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: reminder: this is the *scribes* list It's nice to be friendly and chatty and such, but please lets try to stay on list topic. thanks, postmaster@castle.org CT/nomad ----------- - Lee "nomad" Damon - \ play: nomad@castle.org or castle!nomad \ \ /\ Seneschal, Castle PAUS. / \ "Celebrate Diversity" / \ =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:00:05 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. - --=====================_246099602==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Any ideas yet on Southern German manuscript vellum? Thank you for your suggestions Meistern. However, I am not sure where to procure sheep vellum. I can get calf or kid from Rick Cavisan, though. I'm surprised at how quiet the list has been on this question. I also thank all those who gave me sources for quill feathers. That is going to be an interesting excursion for me. A further question. I don't want to use iron gall ink for this manuscript I am planning, as the original has been eaten away by it. Would walnut ink be a good substitute? Would lampblack ink be a better substitute? Thank you for your help, Despina - --=====================_246099602==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Any ideas yet on Southern German manuscript vellum?  Thank you for your suggestions Meistern.  However, I am not sure where to procure sheep vellum.  I can get calf or kid from Rick Cavisan, though.

I'm surprised at how quiet the list has been on this question.  I also thank all those who gave me sources for quill feathers.  That is going to be an interesting excursion for me.

A further question.  I don't want to use iron gall ink for this manuscript I am planning, as the original has been eaten away by it.  Would walnut ink be a good substitute?  Would lampblack ink be a better substitute?

Thank you for your help,
Despina - --=====================_246099602==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:44:45 -0700 From: "Dave and Lani Kyea" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Apology My face is red red and I offer my apologies to all scribes new and old for not knowing how to configure my reply to the list . Please accept my apology scribes all. I thank you Meisterin Katarina Helene for the instructions to remedy. Also dear lady your info/site re: Pennisicwar appreciated too. Too late this year for Phoenix. I fear the time of the Estrellawar is definately too close to attend. I am looking forward to the time I can attend a gatering/war/event but for now I am delighted in the support and education offered on this list and in time as I grow I will be able to go and participaate. ----Lani who is without a persona choice as yet . - ----- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:24:31 -0700 From: "Dave and Lani Kyea" Subject: [scribes]: Re: [scribes] FTI and lamb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0974A.3F6DABE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Despina/Amy, I stand corrected and therefore even more connected. Thank = you and yes yes this is a source to learn much! Already my head is = spinning from it all and you all and the generoisty of the learned ones. I have had my computer only since Oct of '00 and I cannot believe the = world it has brought to my door. I never dreamed I could learn in my = lifetime calligrapy and illumination from the isolation of the ranch so = It was just I want to do thing but not a possibility- NOW --- It is = not a probability -- It is in progress, an actuality-- WOW -- dreams do = come true.........Lani =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0974A.3F6DABE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Despina/Amy, I stand corrected and = therefore even=20 more connected.  Thank you and yes yes this is a source to = learn=20 much!  Already my head is spinning from it all and you all and the=20 generoisty of the learned ones.
I have had my computer only since = Oct of '00=20 and I cannot believe the world it has brought to my door.  I never = dreamed=20 I could learn in my lifetime calligrapy and illumination  from = the=20 isolation of the ranch so It was just I want to do thing but not a=20 possibility-  NOW ---  It is not a probability -- It is = in=20 progress, an actuality-- WOW -- dreams do come=20 true.........Lani   
- ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C0974A.3F6DABE0-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:47:16 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. Despina: For ink, if you don't want to use iron gall ink -- I just used it this week for the first time and it took me by surprise... went on gray and watery then turned the most lovely rich black before my very eyes! -- I recommend you try Japanese (or Chinese) stick ink. The walnut I've seen so far has been the light brown drawing ink, unless you can find black. It would also be as corrosive, though, I would guess. But, I think if you tell Rick Cavasin that you want to use the calf for a book, he will work hard to make it as supple as possible for you. He is such a nice person. When I purchased some black dyed kid from him a couple years ago, he went beyond the regular client/agent efforts. KHvS =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:05:09 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. - --=====================_253603993==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:47 PM 2/15/2001 -0500, Helen Schultz wrote: >For ink, if you don't want to use iron gall ink -- I just used it this week >for the first time and it took me by surprise... went on gray and watery >then turned the most lovely rich black before my very eyes! I've made it before and it is beautiful but, as I said, the original book has so much damage where it has eaten through the pages I really don't want that to happen. (okay, so I am flattering myself to think that this is going to last 600 years, but why not? I won't be there to be disappointed.) >-- I recommend you try Japanese (or Chinese) stick ink. I've never used this, though I have heard of its magic. >The walnut I've seen so far has been the light brown drawing ink, unless >you can find black. It would also be as corrosive, though, I would guess. That which I make turns out a very rich dark brown, nearly black. Again, the corrosive possibility is what I am worried about. I know there are a lot of tannins in walnut husks so ..... I guess I am trying to find what I can make for myself. I'd much rather make the ink than buy it. In for a penny, in for a pound and all.... >But, I think if you tell Rick Cavasin that you want to use the calf for a >book, he will work hard to make it as supple as possible for you. He is >such a nice person. When I purchased some black dyed kid from him a >couple years ago, he went beyond the regular client/agent efforts. I've heard such wonderful things as this before about him. I just worry, as I won't be able to afford to get all the vellum at once. I don't want him to feel as if he has to make the whole order up at once (so that it matches well) and then store it until I can pay for it in increments. I guess we'll just have to see what will happen. I am appreciating all the help I am getting on this. In Respectivo, Despina - --=====================_253603993==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:47 PM 2/15/2001 -0500, Helen Schultz wrote:


For ink, if you don't want to use iron gall ink -- I just used it this week
for the first time and it took me by surprise... went on gray and watery
then turned the most lovely rich black before my very eyes! 

I've made it before and it is beautiful but, as I said, the original book has so much damage where it has eaten through the pages I really don't want that to happen.  (okay, so I am flattering myself to think that this is going to last 600 years, but why not?  I won't be there to be disappointed.)

-- I recommend you try Japanese (or Chinese) stick ink. 

I've never used this, though I have heard of its magic. 

The walnut I've seen so far has been the light brown drawing ink, unless you can find black.  It would also be as corrosive, though, I would guess.

That which I make turns out a very rich dark brown, nearly black.  Again, the corrosive possibility is what I am worried about.  I know there are a lot of tannins in walnut husks so ..... I guess I am trying to find what I can make for myself.  I'd much rather make the ink than buy it.  In for a penny, in for a pound and all....

But, I think if you tell Rick Cavasin that you want to use the calf for a
book, he will work hard to make it as supple as possible for you.  He is
such a nice person.  When I purchased some black dyed kid from him a couple years ago, he went beyond the regular client/agent efforts. <smile>

I've heard such wonderful things as this before about him.  I just worry, as I won't be able to afford to get all the vellum at once.  I don't want him to feel as if he has to make the whole order up at once (so that it matches well) and then store it until I can pay for it in increments.  I guess we'll just have to see what will happen.

I am appreciating all the help I am getting on this.

In Respectivo,
Despina - --=====================_253603993==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:02:48 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: [scribes]: Gutenberg demythologized? Dear folks, My sweetheart sent this URL to me -- check it out. "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." -- Cathering Aird "Found this on the Princeton website. "Reassessing Gutenberg's contribution to printing. "In a discovery that could prompt a major reassessment in the history of books and bookmaking, two Princeton University researchers have concluded that 15th-century German printer Johannes Gutenberg may not have invented and used a punch-matrix system of moveable type." http://www.princeton.edu/pr/home/hmcap.html - -- johannes v.n. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:52:14 -0500 From: alienor Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. > > I've made it before and it is beautiful but, as I said, the original > book has so much damage where it has eaten through the pages I really > don't want that to happen. (okay, so I am flattering myself to think > that this is going to last 600 years, but why not? I won't be there > to be disappointed.) Hi Despina, On the other hand, if I am not mistaken most of the manuscripts which were produced from the 12th century through well, almost the 20th century used gallo-tannic ink. Both iron gall and walnut ink have tannin as their base, so I doubt there is much difference in the corrosiveness of one over the other. It is my understanding that deterioration can result from ink which is improperly made or from vellum which is incorrectly prepared. Jack Thompson (he's on this list?) has done a study entitled "Manuscript Inks" which is available from him. In it he gives recipes for iron gall ink which should give you an iron gall ink which would not be aggressive when applied to correctly prepared vellum. You can order Mr. Thompson's book from him. You could also search the net for the several pages which have recipes for ink. By the way, the black color of both iron gall and walnut inks is achieved by adding copperas (hydrous iron sulfate) to the recipe. The easiest way is to add a few rusty nails, but the amount of iron sulfate would be uncontrolled. Copperas can be purchased, most readily from a place where spinning and weaving supplies are sold since it is also used as a mordant in dying. Or, if you follow Mr. Thompson's directions and are very brave, you can make your own! Best of luck with your book. I have a friend who wants a book of hours as a wedding present. Hope she hasn't set the date yet!! In service, Alienora =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:12:07 -0500 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Vellum and ink question. Despina, Iron Gall ink won't necessarily eat a page, and it takes many years to do so, but if you really want to be safe, lampblack in gum arabic (yeah, that = watercolor paint) is totally safe. RanthulfR "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" wrote: > > Any ideas yet on Southern German manuscript vellum? Thank you for > your suggestions Meistern. However, I am not sure where to procure > sheep vellum. I can get calf or kid from Rick Cavisan, though. > > I'm surprised at how quiet the list has been on this question. I also > thank all those who gave me sources for quill feathers. That is going > to be an interesting excursion for me. > > A further question. I don't want to use iron gall ink for this > manuscript I am planning, as the original has been eaten away by it. > Would walnut ink be a good substitute? Would lampblack ink be a > better substitute? > > Thank you for your help, > Despina - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V5 #17 ****************************