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scribes digest        Sunday, November 12 2000        Volume 04 : Number 063



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 [scribes]: (Fwd) [SCA_NaturalDyes] Re: Natural dying/painting
 Re: [scribes]: Visconti Hours
 [scribes]: I have entered the new century.
 [scribes]: Re: Off topic, lets help.   Books from Bree - real, real serious for a change
 Re: [scribes]: I have entered the new century.
 Re: [scribes]: Visconti Hours
 [scribes]: Nice facsmile editions

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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 07:49:33 -0800
From: "EHW" <ercil@astrid.upland.ca.us>
Subject: [scribes]: (Fwd) [SCA_NaturalDyes] Re: Natural dying/painting

What do you guys think about this?
Astridhr

Subject:        	[SCA_NaturalDyes] Re: Natural dying/painting

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 


SCA_NaturalDyes@egroups.com, Lynn Meyer <lmeyer@s...> 
wrote: > > I
emailed to my local shire's list asking about this, too, since we have
> a couple of scribal workshops.  They too mentioned madder,
cochineal, > indigo and lapis -- has lapis been used as a dye?  I
could see > printing on fabric with it -- ? > > Further, one of them
said > << >>>snip<<<< > And it just so happened that I ordered 
some chalk to use in my upcoming > madder project.  I need about 
half an ounce, but had to order a full > pound.  So I'm going to 
make my local scribes some madder-dyed chalk, > *after* I'm 
finished dyeing my yarn, for them to play with. > > Synergy is fun! 
> Halima > > > 



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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:20:36 -0500
From: "Helen Schultz" <meistern@netusa1.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Visconti Hours

Asa:

Your enthusiasm is so wonderful!!  Thank you for sharing.

Congratulations on your acquisition, may you enjoy it for a long time.  Yes,
those colors are pretty much correct... can you say "day glo?"

I am not sure which of the de Berry books you saw that was so large.  The Grand
Heures is massive (although not thick), but not quite that large.  It is more
like 18"x 20".   It is the only one of the de Berry books that is that large...
the others are more "average" (if any books can be called that).

Saradwen:

Wolfgang was elevated for his miniatures (as in portraits) and his decorative
metal work, I believe.  I don't think I was privileged enough to see his copy of
the Visconti, but it sounds wonderful.  Since he is a meticulous artist, I am
sure it was totally awesome.

I am not sure I would call the Besozzo "muted,"  his colors are quite bright --
just not as "neon" as some of the Visconti is... and his gilding is TO DIE FOR.
For those interested in acquiring a copy of the Manesse Codex, be warned... it
is not inexpensive!!  I ordered it from Amazon.de (thanks to M. Alicia Langland
of AEthelmearc) -- you need to know a bit of German to make the transaction, or
at least be able to identify some of the words) and it arrived in less than 10
days.  Of course, my credit card will never be the same <sigh>.  But, those who
know me well, know that I will not hold back on a book or even individual pages
if they "call" to me. <giggle>

M. KHvS
Middle Kingdom (Shire of Narrental)

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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:18:48 -0700
From: "Susan Holt" <susan@sancho.rocinante.com>
Subject: [scribes]: I have entered the new century.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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    Well! I know this is old hat to some of you by now, but for me it's =
a first. I just ordered a book from ABE Books! I really hope it goes =
through with out any problems, it's a Visconti Hours book. Wish me luck! =
I just had to tell some one.
    Raven/Susan
    Atenveldt, Barony SunDragon/Glendale, AZ (Yep! It gets HOT here.)

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT =
color=3D#000000>Well! I=20
know this is old hat to some of you by now, but for me it's a first. I =
just=20
ordered a book from ABE Books! I really hope it goes through with out =
any=20
problems, it's a Visconti Hours book. Wish me luck! I just had to tell =
some=20
one.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#000000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Raven/Susan</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#000000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Atenveldt, Barony SunDragon/Glendale, AZ (Yep! It gets HOT=20
here.)</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C04C91.F2105760--

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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:50:27 -0800
From: "Jennifer Hill" <jhill@elko.net>
Subject: [scribes]: Re: Off topic, lets help.   Books from Bree - real, real serious for a change

Thank you, Shashana, for the information.
For all the others, I am including the previously sent addresses in order to
facilitate not cluttering the same lists, but, instead, posting it to
others.  Gwen verch Rhys of Gwynnedd
mka  Jennifer Hill
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Shashana of the House of Lamb" <shashana_lamb@hotmail.com>
To: <SCA-Archery@egroups.com>
Cc: <SCA-Exchequers@egroups.com>; <thesaxon@home.com>;
<sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu>; <starfox_sfx@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 11:34 AM
Subject: Off topic, lets help. Books from Bree - real, real serious for a
change


>
> I apologize for this being off topic but once you read it I think that
> you'll understand.
>
> In Service,
> Chiara
>
> >From: "Steve Gray" <steffano@mindlink.bc.ca>
> >Reply-To: northern@antir.sca.org
> >To: <steps@antir.sca.org>, <northern@antir.sca.org>
> >CC: <cathedral@antir.sca.org>
> >Subject: [Northern] Books from Bree - real, real serious for a change
> >Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 05:34:08 -0800
> >
> >Lords and Ladies
> >
> >Most of you, I'm sure, remember the tale of John and Emma.
> >
> >How the lady who was "Books from Bree" met and came to fall in love with
> >"John Kane, Bookseller" and it was so sweet that these two "Book People"
> >might meet and get together - creating some kind of "Book Superstore" for
> >us
> >on An Tir's merchants row.
> >
> >Just like Romeo and Juliet.
> >
> >But, as Shakespeare also says, "Ay, there's the rub".
> >
> >Romeo and Juliet is a really sweet play for the first couple of acts....
> >
> >Just like the story of Emma and John.
> >
> >Because, you see (and I guess there's no easy way to say it),
> >
> >Emma's sick.  Like really sick.  Like maybe "we have to get used to the
> >idea
> >of missing her" kinda sick.
> >
> >Which makes the whole John and Emma thing a tragedy - unfortunately just
> >like Romeo and Juliet.
> >
> >The reason why I'm writing this is because there's a thing that we can do
> >to
> >help - beyond feeling bad about it and writing our support to her (which
we
> >all should do, anyhow, but "good wishes and $2.50 will buy you a latte"
as
> >they say).
> >
> >Emma's website has a link to Amazon.com.  Because she has this link, if
> >someone goes to her site and links into Amazon, then buys something,
Amazon
> >kicks money back to her.
> >
> >So it's possible to spend exactly the same amount of money at Amazon -
> >buying the perfect Christmas book for your friend who never leaves their
> >house :) - yet help out Emma by going to Amazon by way of
> >http://www.auldbooks.com/bree/ .
> >
> >It's a chance to live my idea of The Dream - do good while doing what
you'd
> >do anyhow.
> >
> >I'm a little surprised to be writing this as I don't really know her that
> >well.  But I've always been a fan of the incredibly romantic story of
"book
> >girl" meets "book boy".  Then the Doctor said "it's not a Romance, it's a
> >Tragedy".  So Emma wrote to me and said "You can write, Steffano.  Can
you
> >write something for me?".
> >
> >And I said "Well, actually, my Lady, heck yes.  Hell Yes!, even".
> >
> >So I want to encourage everyone to take a moment to think about the idea
of
> >two people who did the same thing for years, yards apart.  Then they
met -
> >and finally figured out that they liked the same thing.  They got
together
> >and were going to live Happily Ever After.
> >
> >Then the Doctor said "It'll be a year, maybe 2".
> >
> >The world is a complicated place - and miracles are delivered with a mad
> >randomness.  Who knows what will happen?  But unlike miracles, the
cheques
> >from Amazon come in real predictably - and they really make a difference.
> >
> >The punchline is that the books you buy that help Emma cost exactly the
> >same
> >as the books you buy that don't.
> >
> >All the karma - none of the cost.
> >
> >http://www.auldbooks.com/bree/
> >
> >You can't lose - and Emma might win.
> >
> >Pass it on - as everyone you have ever met can play, Society or not.
> >
> >Steff
> >
> >P.S. Repost this madly - there's a hundred thousand of us.  And talk to
> >those non-Society people you know who do this whole glamorous "online
book
> >buying thing".  That's another hundred thousand rich relatives who
actually
> >shop at Amazon (like my brother the mundane).
> >
> >And what if it works? - It's like some dream Literacy Campaign:
> >
> >"Buy a Book.  Save a Life".
> >
> >
> >
> >----
> >Ah June! What a lovely month to hold an event. And if you'd like to
> >host the next Northern Region event (in June) contact the Northern
Regional
> >Seneschal at northern-seneschal@antir.sca.org.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.

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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:31:53 -0500
From: "Sally Burnell" <sburnell@raex.com>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: I have entered the new century.

Well! I know this is old hat to some of you by now, but for me it's a first.
I just ordered a book from ABE Books! I really hope it goes through with out
any problems, it's a Visconti Hours book. Wish me luck! I just had to tell
some one.
    Raven/Susan
    Atenveldt, Barony SunDragon/Glendale, AZ (Yep! It gets HOT here.)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woo-hoo! Congrats! That is such a great book! What a joy to have that one!
You're really going to enjoy looking at that one. One of my favourite folios
from that particular MS. is LF 11v. If you look up in the upper left hand
part of the page, beneath the one Virtue of Fortitude and emanating from the
historiated initial "D" is a yin-yang symbol, something I would not have
expected to find in an Italian Renaissance illuminated MS.

Enjoy the book - it's a real beauty!

Saradwen
Midrealm

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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:08:12 -0400
From: wyverns <wyverns@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [scribes]: Visconti Hours

Yes, one of my absolute favorites also!  I have done some scrolls based 
on some of the pages. I especially like the pastel pages and the 
elaborate golden suns and sun-like decor around the border miniatures.  
It offers an endless variety of possibilities and tends to disprove many 
claims starting with "They never did..." or "They never used....".  I 
also love the way that it entirely fails to use perfection of symetry or 
repetition yet is unquestionably beautiful anyway.  My kind of artists!  

The edition you are refering to appears to have been printed in very 
full color ('with gold' as they say), but there are almost always slight 
color shifts in printing (for one color if not for all) except for the 
museum-quality reproductions, which are not the same thing.  
"Museum-quality reproductions" are facsimilis that can be used for 
display by museums that don't possess the original - they would have the 
texture, feel, color, binding method etcetera of the original and are 
typically not so much published as handmade.  (Sometimes, a company or 
museum has been known to make a few hundred copies - each of which can 
be purchased for a mere thousand or tens of thousands of dollars, 
depending on the item.)  Museum publications can vary as much as any 
other printed book, although typically they tend toward the higher end 
for quality control.

The 'with gold' feature has one drawback - because gold is added after 
the printing process, it is impossible to tell what texture the original 
gold may or may not have had.  I suspect that some of those large areas 
of gold may not have been perfectly flat and may even have been tooled 
or raised or some combination thereof, but I have never had the 
opportunity to see the original so I can only guess.  similarly, it can 
only be guessed whether some of the gold may have had a black ouline 
drawn around it, as they sometimes did, or whether the black lines that 
occasionally show were drawn before the gold was laid and the gold did 
not quite cover as it was intended to.  (In some cases, it is clear in 
my copy that the gold over-printing did not align perfectly with the 
original full color printing; how much of the black line might have 
shown if it was laid perfectly cannot be known without looking at the 
original).

Anyway, enjoy!  Everytime you look at it, you are sure to find something 
new, different, and inspiring!

Enid
Atlantia
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Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:37:49 -0500
From: "Sally Burnell" <sburnell@raex.com>
Subject: [scribes]: Nice facsmile editions

For those of you who are into collecting facsimile editions of Manuscripts,
here are a few you might want to consider finding copies of:

The Visconti Hours
Prayerbook of Michelino da Besozzo
King René's Book of Love
Hours of Catherine of Cleves
Les Grandes Heures de Jean, Duc de Berry
Trés Riches Heures de Jean, Duc de Berry
Petites Heures de Jean, Duc de Berry
Belles Heures de Jean, Duc de Berry (can you tell that this guy had a lot of
books made for him?)
Master of Mary of Burgundy
Hours of Mary of Burgundy
Hunting Book of Gaston Phoebus
Illuminated Naples Bible
Göttingen Model Book
Book of Kells
Lindisfarne Gospels

Those are the ones that at the moment I can think of. Anyone else have ones
they want to add to that list that I don't know about? (oooooh, that might
be dangerous, because then I might want to buy them!!! <laugh> Like I really
have more room in this tiny apartment!!!)

Maybe I can beg my sister in Germany to think about getting me that lucious
copy of the Manasse Codex for Christmas, since her husband pulls down big
bucks! Oh, how I lust for a copy of that one.........................(sigh)
Either that or a plane ticket to visit her again, which is how I got to go
over their four years ago at Christmas time. I can almost taste the
gluhwein................(hot spiced red wine, a favourite beverage of the
Germans at Christmas time!)

Saradwen
Midrealm

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End of scribes digest V4 #63
****************************