From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V4 #44 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, November 2 2000 Volume 04 : Number 044 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) RE: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) [scribes]: private post [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) RE: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) Re: [scribes]: Libraries-who needs'em? [scribes]: joining the list serve Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:44:15 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) I occasonally use Pergamenata. I like the appearance, and it's wonderfully correctable. The heavier weight doesn't cockle with the normal amount of wetness of an illuminated page (I haven't tried it for anything more modern and wetter). My main objection to it is the rigidity of the surface. The usual padding of a few sheets of paper underneath makes no difference. This unyielding surface can cause raggedness of one edge of the pen strokes unless your pressure is absolutely even on both edges of the nib. But if you don't mind a bit of retouching, this is great stuff. Corinna TreeGirtSea - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 8:27 AM Subject: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) > There are mixed opinions on Pergamenata paper. I've used it for 4 or 5 > pieces and I like it very much. IIRC, the Paper and Ink catalog lists it as > "neutral pH" which is not quite the same thing as "acid-free" so it may not > last quite as long. I have a few pieces left over from things I did 4-5 > years ago and I don't see any evidence of aging, i.e. brittleness or > discoloration so far. A major advantage of Pergamenata, IMHO, is that the > heavyweight is heavy enough for a scroll with wax seals but is still > transparent enough to allow you to trace design elements, placement lines or > other marks you might want. > > Luighseach in cloudy Dreiburgen, > getting stuff ready to teach Turkish bookbinding on Veterans' Day > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:10:07 -0700 From: "Edgar, Terry" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) I just got my first pieces of Pergamenta. I have to say that I bought a piece of parchement at Pennsic last year. I was told it was genuine. Frankly, I can not tell the difference, can not feel a difference, and it works exactly the same. This stuff is a dream to work on. It isn't quite as heavy as the parchement I bought, but I am now not convinced that what I bought was real either. It even tears the same and doesn't act like vellum. Both act the same when wet. I find I need to press the piece flat with a book or something like that after I have finished and it looks fine. And the cost is so much less expensive than the real stuff. I like the smooth hard surface. It is so forgiving. Rivka - -----Original Message----- From: Corinna Taylor/Al Frank [mailto:uncial@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 10:44 AM To: Luiseach@aol.com; scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) I occasonally use Pergamenata. I like the appearance, and it's wonderfully correctable. The heavier weight doesn't cockle with the normal amount of wetness of an illuminated page (I haven't tried it for anything more modern and wetter). My main objection to it is the rigidity of the surface. The usual padding of a few sheets of paper underneath makes no difference. This unyielding surface can cause raggedness of one edge of the pen strokes unless your pressure is absolutely even on both edges of the nib. But if you don't mind a bit of retouching, this is great stuff. Corinna TreeGirtSea - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 8:27 AM Subject: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) > There are mixed opinions on Pergamenata paper. I've used it for 4 or 5 > pieces and I like it very much. IIRC, the Paper and Ink catalog lists it as > "neutral pH" which is not quite the same thing as "acid-free" so it may not > last quite as long. I have a few pieces left over from things I did 4-5 > years ago and I don't see any evidence of aging, i.e. brittleness or > discoloration so far. A major advantage of Pergamenata, IMHO, is that the > heavyweight is heavy enough for a scroll with wax seals but is still > transparent enough to allow you to trace design elements, placement lines or > other marks you might want. > > Luighseach in cloudy Dreiburgen, > getting stuff ready to teach Turkish bookbinding on Veterans' Day > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:17:21 -0600 From: "Amy L. Hornburg Heilveil" Subject: [scribes]: private post - --=====================_99776390==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Would the Kind Mistress Sue Carter (Esla of Ifeld, OL, OP, ) Innilgard (Lochac, West) Please mail me privately? In Search of the Dream, Despina de la Brasov - --=====================_99776390==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"         Would the Kind Mistress
Sue Carter (Esla of Ifeld, OL, OP, )
Innilgard (Lochac, West)

Please mail me privately?

In Search of the Dream,
Despina de la Brasov - --=====================_99776390==_.ALT-- =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:06:17 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) Rivka: It sounds more like you purchased some "Opaline Vellum" with many of us call "Spam" vellum. It tears (with some difficulty) and when looked at under a magnifying glass, will not show any hair follicles. Opaline is very glossy, though, and I find I have to pounce it with a bit of Gum Sandarac before writing, or my pen skips all over the place (of course, I haven't used it for quite a while, and had only used a cartridge pen when I did). I just finished calligraphing a scroll on the lighter Pergamenta, and I found it buckled quite a bit. I was using stick ink as medium. I haven't yet done the painting on the scroll (gotta hurry, it is for this weekend, and the recipient is visiting me this evening, so I have to keep it out of sight while he is there!!). I don't recall being able to order the heavier weight... now I'll have to go back and look at the catalog . Even though the Pergamenta is nice, I still prefer working on the "real stuff" . But, in a pinch, I usually end up doing scrolls on Strathmore Bristol Board (vellum surface). KHvS - ----- Original Message ----- > I just got my first pieces of Pergamenta. I have to say that I bought a > piece of parchement at Pennsic last year. I was told it was genuine. > Frankly, I can not tell the difference, can not feel a difference, and it > works exactly the same. This stuff is a dream to work on. It isn't quite > as heavy as the parchement I bought, but I am now not convinced that what I > bought was real either. It even tears the same and doesn't act like vellum. > Both act the same when wet. I find I need to press the piece flat with a > book or something like that after I have finished and it looks fine. And > the cost is so much less expensive than the real stuff. I like the smooth > hard surface. It is so forgiving. > > Rivka =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:13:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Lyle H. Gray" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Edgar, Terry wrote: > I just got my first pieces of Pergamenta. I have to say that I bought a > piece of parchement at Pennsic last year. I was told it was genuine. > Frankly, I can not tell the difference, can not feel a difference, and it > works exactly the same. This stuff is a dream to work on. It isn't quite > as heavy as the parchement I bought, but I am now not convinced that what I > bought was real either. It even tears the same and doesn't act like vellum. > Both act the same when wet. I find I need to press the piece flat with a > book or something like that after I have finished and it looks fine. And > the cost is so much less expensive than the real stuff. I like the smooth > hard surface. It is so forgiving. It sounds like you bought opaline vellum from the Guild of Limners (across from the barn). It's 'real', but it's not the same as plain vellum (it's reconstituted vellum). Lyle FitzWilliam =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:32:07 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) >>It sounds more like you purchased some "Opaline Vellum" with many of us call "Spam" vellum. It tears (with some difficulty) and when looked at under a magnifying glass, will not show any hair follicles. Opaline is very glossy, though, and I find I have to pounce it with a bit of Gum Sandarac before writing, or my pen skips all over the place (of course, I haven't used it for quite a while, and had only used a cartridge pen when I did).<< Sounds that way to me too. I'm currently using the "spam vellum" on a project right now and haven't found it to be particularly glossy. I had no trouble using my dip pens with it - no skipping or bleeding. It actually acts a *lot* like real vellum. Tetchubah of Greenlake =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:52:33 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) Tetchubah: You may well be right about how it acts to dip pens. I haven't tried using them on it, as I have gotten rather spoiled with real vellum and have not used "spam vellum" since I did two projects on it over 5 years ago. At that time, I was still using cartridge pens and they skipped like mad. Now, I'll have to try it out to see if I still dislike it (I don't hate it, though). I needed to practice on the Pergamenta in preparation for a big project for my friend Mistress Ingvild (see, Ingvild, I *am* still thinking about working on it!!) KHvS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ..... I'm currently using the "spam vellum" on a > project right now and haven't found it to be particularly glossy. I had no > trouble using my dip pens with it - no skipping or bleeding. It actually > acts a *lot* like real vellum. > > Tetchubah of Greenlake > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:30:40 -0500 (EST) From: Della Hutchison Subject: Re: [scribes]: Libraries-who needs'em? Master Johannes mentioned in a recent post the importance he places on developing what he calls a "visual memory." In her response, Saradwen elaborated, stating >To know not only, "what is it" but >"where it is from, when it dates from and what is the significance of it in >the Grand Scheme of Things" was something my professors drilled into us! She added, >I really think that more folks should be able to, without referring to a >book, look at a piece of illumination and be able to say, "Ah, a fine >example of 15th century Dutch" or "That's a nice piece of 14th century >English" or whatever. That to me shows a real comprehension of the styles >and why they are what they are. It'd be nice if more people would >familiarise themselves with being able to recognise period styles. Those of us who are more familiar with these aspects can assist those who aren't (or who haven't had the benefit of art classes in college) by making sure that when we teach scribal classes, we teach not only the "how-to's" but also the "why's" and "when's." For example, on Sunday, I taught a class on Carolingian Miniscule, a fine hand for a beginning scribe. Because the scribes from this period frequently used older calligraphy styles for capitals and headers, I showed the students earlier styles as well. I also showed them how Carolingian "morphed" into Early Gothic, from which Gothic calligraphy developed. Finally, I showed examples of how the Renaissance Italians used Carolingian as a model for their Humanistic hand. Helping students to understand the style -- what its salient characteristics are, what influenced it, how it influenced later styles, etc. -- is just as important as teaching them to reproduce a style, in my opinion. Alicia AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:54:13 GMT From: "Karin Weaver" Subject: [scribes]: joining the list serve I'd love to join this list serve. I'm a calligrapher in the SCA in the Nashville TN area. Can you help? Thanks - Julian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:21:00 -0600 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) Helen, Stick ink has a very strong binder, so strong that it can eventually pull flakes of the inkstone if it's not washed off. I've used it on the heavy Pergamenata with no difficulty. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Schultz" To: Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:06 PM Subject: [scribes]: Re: Pergamenata (was:Supplies ) > > I just finished calligraphing a scroll on the lighter Pergamenta, and I > found it buckled quite a bit. I was using stick ink as medium. I haven't > yet done the painting on the scroll (gotta hurry, it is for this weekend, > and the recipient is visiting me this evening, so I have to keep it out of > sight while he is there!!). I don't recall being able to order the > heavier weight... now I'll have to go back and look at the catalog . > Even though the Pergamenta is nice, I still prefer working on the "real > stuff" . But, in a pinch, I usually end up doing scrolls on > Strathmore Bristol Board (vellum surface). > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V4 #44 ****************************