From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V4 #33 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, October 27 2000 Volume 04 : Number 033 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: abe books [scribes]: mixing styles Re: [scribes]: mixing styles Re: [scribes]: mixing styles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:22:30 EDT From: "adrienne seel" Subject: [scribes]: abe books A hint for those looking for books on online services (I've mentioned this in the past but we have some new people). Whatever you do keep the information SHORT & use wild cards (even on standing requests). For the Model Book I had first used a full entry providing name, ISBN etc forgetting that this was database. I know that I missed at least one copy because the "for sale" entry was misspelt - no match resulted. Further, use the standing orders - it can really increase your ability to acquire books. It works and my email address has never been released to others. Happy hunting. - -Cerridwin of Seashire _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:47:54 EDT From: "adrienne seel" Subject: [scribes]: mixing styles In the discussion regarding mixing styles I would like to mention one source of this - in my experience one of the most frequent causes. The scroll blank. Unfortunately if a scroll blank is provided it sometimes happens that the illuminator forgets to write on the back what kind of calligraphy should be used (or perhaps they simply don't know - it wasn't until fairly recently that I had any clue at all). Sometime they don't write even the time or place. The calligrapher gets it. They can be just as unknowing about the subtleties of decoration (not recognizing that the knotwork they are looking at is not from Ireland but later in period and from France for instance). Maybe the calligrapher is the only one on hand so even if they do know & can't match the font, he or she proceeds anyway - rather than having there be no scroll to present. An error I made once, in my early days as a calligrapher and will never do again (I did a replacement piece later to make up for it). These kinds of things are unfortunate but they do happen. I personally recommend that when you notice a scroll with elements that you don't think match DO NOT mention it to the recipient. Many, if not most, people receiving a scroll will not know the difference. Generally, they love the work and the award and I wouldn't want to taint the experience. If they bring it up, I wouldn't lie but I would coach it in terms of, not a combination I am familiar with etc. You never know. There are some mighty weird and unexpected combinations out there, in period. None of us likely know everything. In service, Cerridwynne of Seashire (since I mention authenticity, yes I know my name is considered a "problem name" but I wanted a "kick-ass" kind of name from a time period where the women had as much freedom as possible. It was also 14 yrs ago when I first took it and actually trusted a pathetic source (it had footnotes and everything :)) and the herald said it was ok. I have never registered it though.) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:28:51 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: mixing styles Very nice post, Cerridwynne of Seashire. I think we all could learn a thing or two about your tact. I agree that even some of us "leafy" types can make errors in the choice of hand on an illuminated blank. Also, sometimes the person doing the blank also mixes styles a bit. I think for scrolls, it is important that the recipient is happy, not that it "meets strict judging criteria." But, for those who are doing illuminated blanks, I think it is a good idea to at least place in pencil the style done to further assist the calligraphy later. And, I don't see anything wrong with your name at all. I'd go ahead and try to register it. KHvS - ----- Original Message ----- > In the discussion regarding mixing styles I would like to mention one source > of this - in my experience one of the most frequent causes. The scroll > blank. Unfortunately if a scroll blank is provided it sometimes happens > that the illuminator forgets to write on the back what kind of calligraphy > should be used (or perhaps they simply don't know - it wasn't until fairly > recently that I had any clue at all). Sometime they don't write even the > time or place. > > The calligrapher gets it. They can be just as unknowing about the > subtleties of decoration (not recognizing that the knotwork they are looking > at is not from Ireland but later in period and from France for instance). > Maybe the calligrapher is the only one on hand so even if they do know & > can't match the font, he or she proceeds anyway - rather than having there > be no scroll to present. An error I made once, in my early days as a > calligrapher and will never do again (I did a replacement piece later to > make up for it). > > These kinds of things are unfortunate but they do happen. I personally > recommend that when you notice a scroll with elements that you don't think > match DO NOT mention it to the recipient. Many, if not most, people > receiving a scroll will not know the difference. Generally, they love the > work and the award and I wouldn't want to taint the experience. If they > bring it up, I wouldn't lie but I would coach it in terms of, not a > combination I am familiar with etc. > You never know. There are some mighty weird and unexpected combinations out > there, in period. None of us likely know everything. > > In service, > Cerridwynne of Seashire =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:48:15 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: mixing styles In a message dated 10/27/00 9:52:06 AM, a_seel@hotmail.com writes: >You never know. There are some mighty weird and unexpected combinations >out there, in period. A friend gave me a picture of an open book that she had taken at a museum and asked me what style I thought it was. My first guess was French, but right away I knew I was wrong. It kind of looked Italian, but not quite. I never did guess what it was. My friend took pity on me and gave me the picture of the display card from the museum that she had also thoughtfully taken a picture of. :-) It is the Book of Hours of Charles the Noble, King of Navarre. It was made in Paris around 1405 and was probably a ready-made book, as opposed to a commissioned one. The artists included 2 Italians, 2 French, and 2 from the Netherlands. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V4 #33 ****************************