From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V4 #23 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, October 23 2000 Volume 04 : Number 023 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. RE: [scribes]: Basing scrolls on period exemplars Re: [scribes]: Basing scrolls on period exemplars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:52:08 -0600 From: "Edgar, Terry" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Basing scrolls on period exemplars I do both. I borrow ideas from actuall period examples, then create my own layout based on the inspiration from those examples. I try to avoid tracing. I try to get a feel for the style, and if I know the person has a certain persona, I will look for examples from their geographical area and or time to the level I am capable of (I can't do those late period scenes yet). Rivka - -----Original Message----- From: Susan Arthur [mailto:susanla@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 8:07 PM To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Basing scrolls on period exemplars At 07:42 PM 10/22/00 -0400, Sally Burnell wrote: >May I ask a question of the list? Do most of you base your scroll designs on >actual period exemplars or do you pretty much make up your own designs and >layout patterns? Hi, Saradwen. Good question. I base my work on period exemplars, though not on equivalent works, ie, awards of arms. I work from those gorgeous manuscripts in de Hamel, Backhouse, etc, plus Visconti, the Grand Hours of the Duke du Berry, Catherine of Cleves..... funny, I just seem to keep accumulating these beautiful books! I have done a couple of (early) works that were almost exactly traced, with only modifications to make them fit the text and the paper I was working on. One of the things we did in design school to teach us to analyze what we were looking at was to trace it, so I figured by making as nearly exact a copy as I could, I would learn more about how they did what they did, visually speaking. Now I feel more comfortable loosening up a bit. I still work from the hand on the page-- I don't go back to my calligraphy books and find the nearest equivalent. One of the best classes I ever took was one at Pennsic right after I started scribing, that taught how to look at calligraphy and analyze it to reproduce it. Since then I have not been bound by any of my calligraphy books, no matter how good. There are always variations from scribe to scribe, and I feel certain that by using the version on the manuscript itself that I am using a real exemplar. When I paint people, I often try to match them to the recipient and friends, but I still trace from manuscripts, and then modify the drawing to change positions, etc. (Thank heavens for copiers that enlarge and shrink copies!) That way I know I am getting the style of the drawing right. I find it very jarring to see a mismatch between the hand and the painting, never mind different styles within the painting itself, and I always encourage students to learn the appropriate hand and to work directly from manuscripts. I know that books are expensive, but most of us have friends or libraries that we can borrow from. It is also important to remember that it isn't necessary to have a facsimile of every manuscript that we like-- a good survey book, like de Hamel or Backhouse, can go a long way. Lucia =========================== Lucia Bellini Baroness, Windmasters' Hill Companion of the Pearl Guildmistress, Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium http://scribe.atlantia.sca.org/gallery/Lucia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:54:35 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Basing scrolls on period exemplars In a message dated 10/22/00 7:44:26 PM, sburnell@raex.com writes: >May I ask a question of the list? Do most of you base your scroll designs >on actual period exemplars or do you pretty much make up your own designs >and layout patterns? Yes :-) On some scrolls, I try and stick to a single exemplar. I'll swap out elements to be able to place an order badge in the illumination or paint the recipient instead of a generic figure. I keep true to the original piece as much as possible. Those pieces are signed "based on - insert manuscript name here" Sometimes I change the design so much, it only slightly resembles the original piece. Those pieces are signed "inspired by - insert manuscript name here" When I started out as an illuminator, I was taught to study several exemplars from a specific location/time and combine the elements I like into one completely unique scroll. Those pieces are signed "illumination by Eibhlin ni Chaoimh" Most of the scribes I run into who are not doing what would be considered period style work are just not familiar enough with exemplars or have only used the elements they feel they were capable of duplicating. I like to think of it as part of the learning process. I remember back to when I was a novice and how many of the same mistakes I made. <> I quickly figured out that if I wanted to improve, I had to point out my own mistakes and ask specific questions about how to do better next time. Even if I don't know exactly what I've done wrong - if something about a piece "just isn't right" - I will ask other scribes to offer suggestions. Some scribes feel uncomfortable and will avoid commenting on scrolls on their own. Ask them for advice on how to fix something, and it becomes an opportunity for them to teach rather than feeling like they are trashing your work. In the end they feel like they have helped you solve a problem and you benefit from their knowledge. It's a win/win situation :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V4 #23 ****************************