From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V4 #18 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, October 20 2000 Volume 04 : Number 018 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Ink stuff RE: [scribes]: Ink stuff [scribes]: Re: [scribes] Ink stuff Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes] Ink stuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:48:39 +0000 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: Ink stuff Hi everyone, RanthulfR here. I asked Mistress Maeve if I could forward this to the list. She replied: "Also, if anyone there has any technical chemical questions about other dyes/inks/pigments, feel free to forward them back to me." So here it is.... Ionic iron (i.e., iron in aqueous solutions) combines with tannins to produce iron tannate compounds, which are black (you can try this at home by pouring together a cup of tea and a solution made of rusty nails soaked in vinegar for a bit, or, if you're in a hurry, get some ferrous sulfate crystals from a garden store. This, btw, makes a neat chemistry demo. ). Gallstone inks are basically iron-tannate solutions. The source of the dark color in walnut hulls is a substance called juglone, which is initially colorless, but oxidizes over time (accelerated by heat, as do many chemical reactions) to a very dark brown. The hulls probably also contain tannins (many plants do), so using an iron pot to generate iron tannates may not be utterly necessary, but it certainly doesn't hurt the ink. :-) - --Maeve Gwyneth Maeve of Falconguard/mka Betty Creegan - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:07:59 -0600 From: "Edgar, Terry" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Ink stuff What is normally done with walnut hulls? Are they used for making ink or paint? How are they used? Rivka - -----Original Message----- From: Randy Asplund [mailto:randyaf@provide.net] Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:49 AM To: Scribes Subject: [scribes]: Ink stuff Hi everyone, RanthulfR here. I asked Mistress Maeve if I could forward this to the list. She replied: "Also, if anyone there has any technical chemical questions about other dyes/inks/pigments, feel free to forward them back to me." So here it is.... Ionic iron (i.e., iron in aqueous solutions) combines with tannins to produce iron tannate compounds, which are black (you can try this at home by pouring together a cup of tea and a solution made of rusty nails soaked in vinegar for a bit, or, if you're in a hurry, get some ferrous sulfate crystals from a garden store. This, btw, makes a neat chemistry demo. ). Gallstone inks are basically iron-tannate solutions. The source of the dark color in walnut hulls is a substance called juglone, which is initially colorless, but oxidizes over time (accelerated by heat, as do many chemical reactions) to a very dark brown. The hulls probably also contain tannins (many plants do), so using an iron pot to generate iron tannates may not be utterly necessary, but it certainly doesn't hurt the ink. :-) - --Maeve Gwyneth Maeve of Falconguard/mka Betty Creegan - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:44:27 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: [scribes] Ink stuff In a message dated 10/20/00 1:14:47 PM, EdgarT@JM.com writes: >What is normally done with walnut hulls? Are they used for making ink >or paint? How are they used? > >Rivka At Weekend of Wisdom (WoW) in AEthelmearc last weekend I took a wonderful class on manuscript inks taught by Lady Alienor Russeal. She made several different kinds of ink, had several other bottles of purchased ink and passed them around for us to try. My favorites were a deep black oak gall ink and a lovely brown walnut ink (both made by Lady Alienor). They were *much* better than any of the purchased inks- including Blots and Gabriel Guild. She had 2 different walnut inks to share the brown one that I like so much was just boiled walnuts with a little gum arabic added. I believe the other one had rusty nails added to it and yielded a dark grey (almost black) ink. Perhaps Alienor will post more detailed instructions if she is on this list. :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:35:12 +0000 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff Walnut is used for making stains/dyes for wood, cloth & leather, and ink for writing. I suppose you could mix it into your paint, but I can't remember ever seeing it mentioned as being one of the typical medieval pigments for painting. I think that oxidation causing it to darken would probably cause a visual change in the appearance if used as a paint or drawing material. With writing ink, it isn't so much of an issue. Of course, some inks, such as lapblack mixed with gum arabic, are just the same thing whether you call them ink or paint. But those colors don't change. RanthulfR Edgar, Terry wrote: > > What is normally done with walnut hulls? Are they used for making ink or > paint? How are they used? > > Rivka > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Asplund [mailto:randyaf@provide.net] > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:49 AM > To: Scribes > Subject: [scribes]: Ink stuff > > Hi everyone, RanthulfR here. > > I asked Mistress Maeve if I could forward this to the list. She replied: > > "Also, if anyone there has any technical chemical questions about other > dyes/inks/pigments, feel free to forward them back to me." > > So here it is.... > > Ionic iron (i.e., iron in aqueous solutions) combines with tannins to > produce iron tannate compounds, which are black (you can try this at home > by pouring together a cup of tea and a solution made of rusty nails soaked > in vinegar for a bit, or, if you're in a hurry, get some ferrous sulfate > crystals from a garden store. This, btw, makes a neat chemistry demo. ). > Gallstone inks are basically iron-tannate solutions. > > The source of the dark color in walnut hulls is a substance called juglone, > which is initially colorless, but oxidizes over time (accelerated by heat, > as do many chemical reactions) to a very dark brown. The hulls probably > also contain tannins (many plants do), so using an iron pot to generate > iron tannates may not be utterly necessary, but it certainly doesn't hurt > the ink. :-) > > --Maeve > > Gwyneth Maeve of Falconguard/mka Betty Creegan > -- > > Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 > Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration > 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 > > See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts > to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: > http://www.provide.net/~randyaf > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:44:22 +0000 From: Randy Asplund Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff Break a lot of them up and crush them. Thow 'em in a big pot with a cover of water to soak like a tea for hours or even days. I used a mix of new ones which were totally hard and a lot of effort and I used a lot that were already turned black on the ground. The later were so soft that the whole thing crushed easily -husk, shell, and all. Wear gloves because it stains everything brown. It will stain your porch concrete as well. I used a hammer and anvil. The soft ones didn't need that much force. When you want to cook them, place them in a cast iron pot (you can try a non-iron cassarole, but I don't really know yet if it needs the iron) and simmer it down until it is dark and almost to thick to write with. It will be as dark a brown as will appear black at full strength. Strain it. It can be used without additional binder. Thin with water for flow and making washes. You might get more yield by steeping in more water and the material may be good for additional uses. RanthulfR Edgar, Terry wrote: > > What is normally done with walnut hulls? Are they used for making ink or > paint? How are they used? > > Rivka > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Asplund [mailto:randyaf@provide.net] > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:49 AM > To: Scribes > Subject: [scribes]: Ink stuff > > Hi everyone, RanthulfR here. > > I asked Mistress Maeve if I could forward this to the list. She replied: > > "Also, if anyone there has any technical chemical questions about other > dyes/inks/pigments, feel free to forward them back to me." > > So here it is.... > > Ionic iron (i.e., iron in aqueous solutions) combines with tannins to > produce iron tannate compounds, which are black (you can try this at home > by pouring together a cup of tea and a solution made of rusty nails soaked > in vinegar for a bit, or, if you're in a hurry, get some ferrous sulfate > crystals from a garden store. This, btw, makes a neat chemistry demo. ). > Gallstone inks are basically iron-tannate solutions. > > The source of the dark color in walnut hulls is a substance called juglone, > which is initially colorless, but oxidizes over time (accelerated by heat, > as do many chemical reactions) to a very dark brown. The hulls probably > also contain tannins (many plants do), so using an iron pot to generate > iron tannates may not be utterly necessary, but it certainly doesn't hurt > the ink. :-) > > --Maeve > > Gwyneth Maeve of Falconguard/mka Betty Creegan > -- > > Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 > Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration > 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 > > See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts > to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: > http://www.provide.net/~randyaf > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:07:37 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Ink stuff You could just drive over them, as I do daily as I have two black walnut trees in my yard next to the driveway! The squirrels love me when i smash the husks, as they can then easily carry the nut up into the tree to eat (boy, do those little buggers have strong teeth!) or stash away. I end up having to pick them up as they play havoc with my riding lawn mower. I've not yet tried to make ink from them, but a shire member wants to come by and get some to try out dying techniques. I have a ready supply each year, so I don't tend to do anything with them . KHvS > Break a lot of them up and crush them. Thow 'em in a big pot with a cover of > water to soak like a tea for hours or even days. I used a mix of new ones > which were totally hard and a lot of effort and I used a lot that were already > turned black on the ground. The later were so soft that the whole thing > crushed easily -husk, shell, and all. Wear gloves because it stains everything > brown. It will stain your porch concrete as well. I used a hammer and anvil. > The soft ones didn't need that much force. =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:52:34 -0400 From: alienor Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes] Ink stuff Thank you Eibhlin for the nice compliments. As it is 4:50 PM on Friday, and I as leave for the Research Tools Unlocked event in 10 minutes, I can't post my ink dabbling tonight. But I promise to post on Monday for anyone who might be interested. Cheers, Alienor =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V4 #18 ****************************