From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V4 #4 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, October 13 2000 Volume 04 : Number 004 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. Re: RE: [scribes]: Quiet, and Scribal Boo Boos [scribes]: Re: more scribal errors [scribes]: Re: Another Method for Grisaille [scribes]: Re: My Intro - again - from Alt Andreas von Sohren Re: [scribes]: Re: more scribal errors [scribes]: Rescheduling of "from scribe to seal" at harvest tourney in Caid [scribes]: Grisaille ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:35:55 -0500 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: RE: [scribes]: Quiet, and Scribal Boo Boos Another paper that's good for correcting is Pergamenata Parchment, available from Paper & Ink Books. The heavy weight is about the thickness of Arches 140lb. It's also acid-free, translucent, white or "natural" and looks more like real parchment/vellum than any other "parchment" paper - no phony-looking blotchiness. It's very easy to scrape and erase! On the down side, it's such a hard surface, even with a few sheets of padding underneath, that letters tend to need more touching-up of ragged edges. Corinna TreeGirtSea - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Edgar, Terry" Cc: "'Christine'" ; Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: Re: RE: [scribes]: Quiet, and Scribal Boo Boos > First off, I never heard any rule that only black ink must be used on > scrolls. You could use brown-ish ink like you see in MSS. and as well > use rubrics (red ink) as was used in period on certain capital letters > in important texts (thus our modern expression "red letter days".) > > Now, as for mistakes. Done that. Plenty of times. A recent Dragon's > Heart scroll for Coronation a few weeks ago is a classic example. The > recipient was a close friend AND a scribe!! So naturally, it HAD to be > perfect! (The Dragon's Heart is the Midrealm's highest service award > short of Peerage.) > > So toil away I did, into the night. Callig'd it first, and as I put on > the finishing details of the calligraphy, without thinking I wiped > eraser crumbs off of the scroll with my hand, smearing the ink on the > bottom of the scroll. Exasperated with this stupid mistake, I waited > until the smeared ink dried, then scraped it off carefully with an > Exacto knife and a white plastic eraser, then with a burnishing stone, > burnished down the paper fibres that were raised by scraping and > erasing, then went back and repaired the damaged calligraphy. By the > time I was done, no one could tell where the smear occurred. > > Next night: Laid the base paint on the borders. Being ever so careful > not to paint outside my lines or blop paint in some bad spot, I worked > painstakingly to make sure I had a nice even coat of paint all around. > Got lovely work on my borders, then went in to do the historiated > initials. Not remembering, owing to fatigue and lack of concentration, > that the paint on the bottom border was still wet, I went to paint in > a small historiated initial near the bottom of the scroll, stupidly > laying my hand over the bottom border and smearing the red paint all > the way up into the calligraphy. > > Once again, out came the correction tools, cleaned up the offending > paint, repaired the damaged calligraphy painstakingly and went back to > work, being extra careful what I was doing this time. > > Needless to say, up until the last bit of paint and ink were applied, > I fretted. Worried. Cursed a bit at my stupid mistakes. Fussed over > little tiny details. And finished the scroll with time to spare before > the event. (sigh) > > Evening court at Coronation: Lady Katarina Peregrine was called up > before Their Majesties Edmund and Kateryn, and elevated to the Order > of the Dragon's Heart. My scroll was presented to her, and when she > came back to her seat, she was crying with joy and hugged me and > thanked me profusely for the scroll. She was none the wiser to all the > stupid mistakes made in its production. She loves it dearly because it > was made by a friend, mistakes notwithstanding. And that is the joy of > being a scribe, making someone very happy. > > And as for all those corrections made: Arches 140# hot press paper is > WONDEFUL stuff! It can take major abuse and correction like nothing I > have used since I used to use Vegetable parchment in days of yore > (which I have discovered since grows yellow and brittle with age, and > to think how many scrolls I once did on it................sigh). And > it's non-acidic, so it'll last for years to come. > > Mistakes are easy to correct, but you have to be careful and use a > light touch, lest you too badly damage the paper. Done well, no one > will be the wiser to all those "scribal boo-boo's" you made. And that > is really nice to know, because I can hardly think of one single > scroll that I have done where I haven't made at least one blunder. > Even after all my years of experience!!! (20+ years scribal > experience!) > > Saradwen > Midrealm > > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:38:07 EDT From: CarynvnK@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: more scribal errors Hi everyone: I did a Lindisfarne style Award of Arms for my son this winter, with a carpet page on the left and the text on the right. It turned out very well, I thought--at first. You see, Artemisia is still a young Kingdom and the award had been given by a couple who had been Crowns of Artemisia--only they were ruling Atenveldt at the time. So, having first written Artemisia, I had to fix it. As was said, Arches 140# is great stuff. I was able to write Atenveldt in, scrape it, burnish it, paint a little white over the very rough spots, and I thought it looked almost OK. So I entered the scroll in Kingdom A&S. Here's the real kicker--not one of the judges (experienced scribes all) spotted the correction--and neither did my son until I showed it to him. The scroll received a masterpiece score, and my son loves it. People see what they expect to see. Often no one knows you made a mistake except you. Everyone have a great weekend! Caryn von Katzenberg, Artemisia =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:38:57 +1000 From: Mark Calderwood Subject: [scribes]: Re: Another Method for Grisaille Having tried both methods in the past, I tend to agree with Lady Gilibari's technique for grisaille. The addition of white creates a warmer tone and a "creamy" texture to the grey; sumi-e tends to have a more translucent quality. Also supporting this is the fact that you see areas of pure white on buff-coloured vellum, and other non-white substrates like wood. If you look at grisaille work under magnification, you see modelling, shading and blending exactly as you do with coloured work. This would be very difficult to do with the technique used in sumi-e, which I have also done. Sumi-e produces some wonderful effects, but they're not ones I've seen in Western European art. Giles Laval Lochac =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:41:58 -0700 From: "Mert Thomson" Subject: [scribes]: Re: My Intro - again - from Alt Andreas von Sohren Greetings - since I already did an intro from the altavista email addy, I won't be doing another. I just changed from them because they were bought out recently and their service declined noticeably - today it took 11 tries to read three messages, so I finally gave up. Regarding rubouts, corrections, erasures, sanding, etc., in the manuscripts that I was priviledged to view in Europe in my years there, I noticed several that had "repairs" made that were hardly noticeable unless you were specifically examining the documents for the humanity of the creators. Also one hears that it was common practice when parchment was expensive, so I guess we are just "re-creating" the real thing. Alt Andreas von Sohren, PCS Baron Jaegersberg sent by Sonicnetmail __________________________________________ Go Postal! Get free email from http://www.sonicnetmail.com Music + Free Email = Double Happiness =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:23:23 -0500 From: "Corinna Taylor/Al Frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: more scribal errors After the scraping, it often helps to pounce on a little sandarac before burnishing. And of course, always burnish through glassine or other smooth thin paper to prevent a shiny spot. Corinna - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:38 PM Subject: [scribes]: Re: more scribal errors > Hi everyone: > I did a Lindisfarne style Award of Arms for my son this winter, with a carpet > page on the left and the text on the right. It turned out very well, I > thought--at first. You see, Artemisia is still a young Kingdom and the award > had been given by a couple who had been Crowns of Artemisia--only they were > ruling Atenveldt at the time. So, having first written Artemisia, I had to > fix it. > > As was said, Arches 140# is great stuff. I was able to write Atenveldt in, > scrape it, burnish it, paint a little white over the very rough spots, and I > thought it looked almost OK. So I entered the scroll in Kingdom A&S. Here's > the real kicker--not one of the judges (experienced scribes all) spotted the > correction--and neither did my son until I showed it to him. The scroll > received a masterpiece score, and my son loves it. > > People see what they expect to see. Often no one knows you made a mistake > except you. > Everyone have a great weekend! > Caryn von Katzenberg, Artemisia > =================================================================== > To unsubscribe from this list, send email to > with a blank Subject: line and > unsubscribe scribes > in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in > the body. > =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 01:04:29 EDT From: Fitchybear1@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Rescheduling of "from scribe to seal" at harvest tourney in Caid Sorry all for the additional bandwith, but I need to post this to as many Caidan scribes as possible... "From scribe to seal" scriptorium scheduled for Harvest Tourney in Gyldenholt this coming saturday, regrettably has to be rescheduled... the fates have payed the hussy with us and Dreiburgen's "Big Blue" pavillion sustained some dammage at GWW... I had the flu... and now the boss just told me I have mandatory workday on Sat. at 6:00 a.m. (insult to injury). We have rescheduled for October 28, at Dreiburgen Anniversary. Sorry for the inconvience-JimBear =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:32:49 +0000 From: Randy Asplund Subject: [scribes]: Grisaille I was confused by the fact that people were interested in grisaille techniques as a particular thing because as far as I knew there is no such specific thing. So I looked it up to be sure I hadn't missed anything. It's just what I thought, a term for monochrome painting (usually in black and white, but sometimes color -as in The Hours of Jeanne D'Evereaux). There is no right or wrong way to do it. If you paint with just one color, or with one color and black, or with one color and white, then you are doing grisaille. You can limit the shades to three as suggested in Ralph Mayer's handbook, or you can paint a full range of light to dark. You can blend or not. It just doesn't matter for the definition. It is just painting with a VERY limited palette. Grisaille was often done as a preliminary painting to establish value systems under oil paintings which had the color glazed over top. If you want to get special effects in illumination, you can always play the cool tones against the warm. Titanium white is a cool white. Calcium whites are warmer. Then there is the choice of lampblack or vineblack. It is still grey, but you get warm and cool tones which can be used to subtle enhancement. RanthulfR - -- Randy Asplund (734) 663-0954 Science Fiction and Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr., Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 See a Universe of art ranging from Medieval Manuscripts to Star Trek and Magic: The Gathering at: http://www.provide.net/~randyaf =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V4 #4 ***************************