From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V3 #18 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, October 3 2000 Volume 03 : Number 018 ======================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with unsubscribe scribes-digets in the body of the message. Leave the subject line blank. Do not include any additional text. [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:07:27 -0500 From: Lori Martell Subject: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors In reply to the good Mistress: >This is a very good first book for illuminators. It goes into lots of great >detail on layering and other aspects of illumination. Just don't copy the >colors exactly... they are either done in pencil or using the Victorian >reproductions -- so they are not true. You mention possible problems with the colors in this book. I have only a very few examples of white work to go by and am wondering if the colors that they suggest are correct or if I should go looking for something else. I'll be making a white work scroll for my girlfriend who received her AoA a short time ago and would like to make it a real nice one (well, I want them all to be nice but it's fun when you really know the person). The suggested colors (for those who may not have the book) are: *Sepia outline *Gold letter (I'm not sure if I'm up to using gold yet but if I don't try, I'll never be ready) *for the red - Scarlet lake, zinc white and a tough of alizarin *Green - Winsor blue, lemon yellow and white *Blue - winsor blue, ultramarine blue and white *to shade the vine a thin wash of vandyke brown and lamp black to match the sepia. *White and gold for the clusters of spots Thoughts on these colors? Many thanks for any help that this group is willing to offer; you are the greatest :) Aldiana =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:40:28 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors >>The suggested colors (for those who may not have the book) are: *Sepia outline *Gold letter (I'm not sure if I'm up to using gold yet but if I don't try, I'll never be ready) *for the red - Scarlet lake, zinc white and a tough of alizarin *Green - Winsor blue, lemon yellow and white *Blue - winsor blue, ultramarine blue and white *to shade the vine a thin wash of vandyke brown and lamp black to match the sepia. *White and gold for the clusters of spots Thoughts on these colors?<< I've done quite a bit of whitework and have several books with other examples in them. Since I hate mixing colors if I don't have too these are the ones I normally use: *Black for the outline (usually just india ink) - I have a problem with the use of sepia tones in these examples since I think most of the real ones were done as black as possible, and they've simply faded over the years (or were just too weak to being with) *red - W&N Alizarin Rose Madder *green - W&N Mistletoe green *blue - W&N indigo with a touch of white in it to lighten it up a tad - it's very dark otherwise. *shade the vine - I don't do so since many examples show no shading on the vines. But vandyke brown would probably work fine if you want to do so. *Spots - near as I can tell, they are *always* white. It's possible they might be yellow on the green fields however - I think Eowyn and I noticed a yellow tinge to one of these pages we looked at recently in the field when we were at the Getty last. *Gold leaf for the gold areas. Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:49:22 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors Aldiana: To try to answer your questions... My main caution pertained to the dullness of the colors in the book (Victorians seem to have liked pastels a LOT). Medieval manuscripts were vibrant (those surviving show us that fact). I agree with Tetchubah about using pre-made color mixes, they are much easier and less time consuming. Also, if you mix them up yourself, and find you didn't make enough, getting the exact same combination is not all that easy. I also agree about using a black outline. If you outline first, and want the softer look, don't go back over and re-line. There are some manuscripts that had VERY thick black outlines, and some that have almost none, as if painted over. You have to decide which style you like the best. If you don't feel up to gold leafing yet (and I can understand your reticence, having talked to you before privately), try using a high quality gouache. Some brands have been mentioned here on the list, but I also highly recommend Talens Light Gold gouache... it is very nice. I think Paper & Ink catalog sells it. I like to use W&N Spectrum Red... it doesn't cause the white to fade into pink easily, and is almost the correct shade. I say almost, as I think Alarizin Crimzin (sorry, can't spell today) is closer in shade, but it doesn't take whitework well. I like to use W&N Cobalt Blue Hue for my blue. I can't recall what color green I usually use, but Tetchubah's suggestion is a good one. I also again agree with her about shading the vine. The ones I have ever seen (except for squashed bug) were actually only lightened with the white (a wash first and then a firm thin line of white in such a way as to leave a streak of the original green visible... sort of like 3 colors). Tetchubah was also correct that often the green was highlighted with yellow, as was red. But, this technique was found mostly on Italian manuscripts of the late 14th and 15th centuries. If you are doing the French bar & ivy style of whitework, then you will rarely see green highlighted with yellow, but it is not unheard of, either. I hope this helps you just a little more. Check out some of the on-line manuscript pages ( http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/subjects/mss/mss.html ) at this web site... there are some really nice examples of whitework in there somewhere. Another great site is this one: http://www.kb.dk/elib/mss/mdr/index-en.htm which has 12 FULL manuscripts available to web browsers!! Have fun, and good luck. KHvS =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:52:13 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Illuminated Alphabet colors Aldiana: I forgot to mention that you should be using W&N Permanent White or Titanium White for your whitework... the other two shades of white are too "weak" to accomplish the job. KHvS =================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send email to with a blank Subject: line and unsubscribe scribes in the body of the message. Do not include any additional text in the body. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V3 #18 ****************************