From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #178 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 02 : Number 178 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold [scribes]: Gakken Dishes (was Paint on Gold) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:16:30 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors In a message dated 7/20/98 2:47:12 PM, Eldred@concentric.net wrote: <> Same undercroft. The far end has St. Cuthbert's coffin and there are various carved stones and such, besides the mss. There are even some later period ones, but I had gone there specifically to see the really early ones. When I arrived, the ticket-taker and i were the only people there. I looked at everything on the first pass, then went back to the display of the Durham Gospels, open to the page after the In Principio page -- the one with large letters spelling "Fuithomomisusado" (add spaces where useful). And on the opposite page, the page that is not photographed in any of my shelves of books on Celtic mss., is just wonderful text and a doodle of a dog's head in the margin. * I was busy taking notes when a school teacher and her charges, maybe a dozen 7-8 year-olds, came in. My heart sank. My peaceful pursuit of knowledge was being invaded. A little girl came over to me, and asked, "Do you know anything about that book?" "Yes, I came all the way from Los Angeles, California, to see it. You are very lucky to live here, because you can see it any time." You could see the concept rolling around in her mind -- her, lucky to live here? And someone came from Los Angeles, where all the tv is from, to see this? I turned away to examine some of the stone carvings while the teacher lectured about St. Cuthbert and his coffin. Then a little boy came over, and asked, "Can you read that book to me?" "A little." And I picked out words in Latin, translating them into English. "See, there's "Iohannes", that means "John", and notice that the letter J hadn't been invented yet, so they used an I. I and J used to be the same letter. And see, "Fuit homo" means " Become man," and this was made long enough ago that the people who wrote this didn't know about putting spaces between words all the time." "What language is that?" the little boy at my left elbow asked. "Latin." "Did Jesus speak Latin?" "No, He probably spoke Aramaic." "Then why is it in Latin?" I looked up at this, and saw the whole class clustered around me, staring at the book, and at me. A couple had climbed the railing on the other side of the book, to look down on it upside down. I could tell these children were not Roman Catholics.** "Because that was the language of the Church at the time." The teacher then ushered them away. There were other mss. there besides the Durham Gospels, but that one will always remain special. They do change the displays periodically, too, I believe (to return to the original question). Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid * See "The Beasts of Durham" in the Fall 1988 _Tournaments Illuminated_ for my transcription of the dog head doodle. ** Though it has become very difficult to find a Latin Bible anywhere. Even a priest didn't have one. For an embroidery sampler based on the Lindisfarne Gospels, I wanted one of the Ecclesiastes lines in Latin, and could not find a Latin Bible to save my soul (so to speak). Finally got a translation of the phrase from the bookstore owner at ILIFF (a school of religion in Denver). Guess I'll keep looking for one in the used book stores. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:38:27 -0400 From: Lea Viljanen Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold > I have noticed over the many years that a lot of SCA scribes tend > to use very thinned out washes of color, as would a watercolor artist. It > is appropriate way less often than not. Even thin medieval colors were > usually thin because of a higher proportion of binder plus water to color, > not just higher proportion of water. This is indeed interesting, since this intuitively feels right to me but last spring I got a mild comment from an A&S Fair judge that I had used too thick paint. I have always felt that if the paint is very watery the colours aren't as intense as I would like, especially when doing early period stuff (which I'm currently doing). - -- Lady Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug Barony of Aarnimetsa, Drachenwald gules and sable. mka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen ladybug@iki.fi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:50:58 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors In a message dated 98-07-21 03:22:05 EDT, EowynA@aol.com writes: << I was busy taking notes when a school teacher and her charges, maybe a dozen 7-8 year-olds, came in. My heart sank. My peaceful pursuit of knowledge was being invaded. A little girl came over to me, and asked, "Do you know anything about that book?" "Yes, I came all the way from Los Angeles, California, to see it. You are very lucky to live here, because you can see it any time." You could see the concept rolling around in her mind -- her, lucky to live here? And someone came from Los Angeles, where all the tv is from, to see this? I turned away to examine some of the stone carvings while the teacher lectured about St. Cuthbert and his coffin. Then a little boy came over, and asked, "Can you read that book to me?" "A little." And I picked out words in Latin, translating them into English. "See, there's "Iohannes", that means "John", and notice that the letter J hadn't been invented yet, so they used an I. I and J used to be the same letter. And see, "Fuit homo" means " Become man," and this was made long enough ago that the people who wrote this didn't know about putting spaces between words all the time." "What language is that?" the little boy at my left elbow asked. "Latin." "Did Jesus speak Latin?" "No, He probably spoke Aramaic." "Then why is it in Latin?" I looked up at this, and saw the whole class clustered around me, staring at the book, and at me. A couple had climbed the railing on the other side of the book, to look down on it upside down. I could tell these children were not Roman Catholics.** "Because that was the language of the Church at the time." The teacher then ushered them away. There were other mss. there besides the Durham Gospels, but that one will always remain special. They do change the displays periodically, too, I believe (to return to the original question). Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid >> I don't know about anyone else but I think that has got to be one of the coolest stories I have ever heard......you were just on the other end of the pursuit of knowledge Eowyn......-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:10:55 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: Durham Gospels colors (snip of really cool story) > There were other mss. there besides the Durham Gospels, but that one will > always remain special. They do change the displays periodically, too, I > believe (to return to the original question). > > Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid > >> > I don't know about anyone else but I think that has got to be one of the > coolest stories I have ever heard......you were just on the other end of the > pursuit of knowledge Eowyn......-JimBear Yeah...isn't it so nifty when you have the privilege of teaching someone something? Who knows what they'll do with the knowledge.... Miri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:11:37 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold Heather Swann wrote: > > > >> I have noticed over the many years that a lot of SCA scribes tend > > to use very thinned out washes of color, as would a watercolor artist. It > > is appropriate way less often than not. Even thin medieval colors were > > usually thin because of a higher proportion of binder plus water to color, > > not just higher proportion of water. The later tends to cause underbinding. > > Underwhat? That is to say, what is underbinding? > > > And yes, I do know of later period sources advising to cut paint with just > > water when shading, etc., but if you look at the actual manuscripts, you > > will see that for general laying in of most color, most of the time > > Okay, I have to ask....I keep seeing the term 'laying in of colour'. > Now does this just mean painting or does it mean something else? I get > the feeling this list is full of professional artists and I for one am > not familiar with artists' terms like this. :) > > (snip) > I'm mixing in a regular palette rather than shells but I > > doubt that has much to do with it. I wonder what else could be a factor? > > What are you using for binder? > > > > Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid > > Why would one mix in shells as opposed to a palette? Is there a reason > other than period practice? I.e., am I missing something technical > here? > I use a set of Chinese ceramic stackable paint dishes. They are small > and shallow, but if you're careful, you can put three colours in each if > you don't use much. I found them in an art supply store once. Haven't > seen them since. > > Miri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:32:00 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold Hi Miri, Not to sound over-knowledgeable, but the little dishes you describe are called "Gakken Dishes" and are used to grind and use colored stick inks (you don't want to use the same grinding stone as your black -- it will corrupt the colors). Pendragon sells them, and probably any other art store that also has stick ink available. By the way, Boko Uno's Yellow Red is VERY close to the orange as seen in my facsimile (the large one) of the Book of Kells!! KHvS - ---------- ..... > > I use a set of Chinese ceramic stackable paint dishes. They are small > > and shallow, but if you're careful, you can put three colours in each if > > you don't use much. I found them in an art supply store once. Haven't > > seen them since. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:57:24 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: Paint on gold > Not to sound over-knowledgeable, but the little dishes you describe are > called "Gakken Dishes" and are used to grind and use colored stick inks > (you don't want to use the same grinding stone as your black -- it will > corrupt the colors). Oh- very cool! I've just been using them as a portable palette. When I originally bought them the guy at the art store had no idea what they were....are they supposed to come with a grinding stick? Mine didn't, that's why I ask... Pendragon sells them, and probably any other art > store that also has stick ink available. By the way, Boko Uno's Yellow Red > is VERY close to the orange as seen in my facsimile (the large one) of the > Book of Kells!! > > KHvS Nifty! At some point I'll have to try the stick ink....it's just not in my budget at the moment...same with new paper to work on....I still have a bunch of sheets I bought for $1.50 apiece in college. Miri > ---------- > ..... > > I use a set of Chinese ceramic stackable paint dishes. They are > small > > > and shallow, but if you're careful, you can put three colours in each > if > > > you don't use much. I found them in an art supply store once. Haven't > > > seen them since. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:25:37 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: [scribes]: Gakken Dishes (was Paint on Gold) Good morning, again, Miri. As far as I know, the Gakken Dishes are sold separately from the stick ink. Pendragon does sell the Boko Uno stick inks, and they ARE quite expensive. If you can figure out how to break them in half (or cut them maybe with a hacksaw) maybe you can find a second person to share one or two with you. I use the Yellow Red and the Wine Red the most... but I got ambitious and bought over 8 different colors (I was also a bit more wealthy at the time than I am now ). I was taught in a mundane calligraphy class to write with them -- it was a great class!! We all work with what we can afford. Don't worry... it all evens out. KHvS ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #178 *****************************