From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #174 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, July 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 174 In this issue: Re: Fwd: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks Re: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks Re: [scribes]: Gold leaf for flames? [scribes]: Size does matter Re: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks Re: [scribes]: Liquid Acrylic Re: [scribes]: Size does matter Re: [scribes]: Gold leaf for flames? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:14:01 -0700 From: Laurie Cavanaugh Subject: Re: Fwd: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks > > Greetings list-folks! Aidan here. I have had a private request for info > > on the dirty tricks we scribes use....like the light table etc, only > > sneakier. Care to start a new thread??? > > > > Aidan the Agitator.... > > > I get bored drawing all those little leaves on Bar & Ivy scrolls so I made > myself a template using the plastic stuff quilters use for their templates. I > drew an assortment of shapes and sizes of my favorite leaves and cut them out > with a stencil xacto blade. Huge time saver. > > Aralyn That is just too cool. I can probably find this plastic at a fabric/crafty-poo store, eh? The possibilities are enormous, but I've never had a good supply of plastic thin enough to work with, but durable enough to hold up to the extensive cutting that, say, branches of bar-n-vine would entail. Wow, that was a long sentence. I was just talking to Luiseach today about semi-permanent templates for basic borders, but this is even better than my idea, which depended on the light table. I do have stencils for shields and for large heraldic charges that I've put on banners. Hey, Cystennin, I saw some more of your illumination today at Festival of the Rose. Keep up the good work! Yes, Thomas even displayed the unfinished gilded piece, but it looks like it will eventually be *very* good. Great thread, Aidan! Now, what are *your* dirty tricks? Morgan Athenry Dreiburgen, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:45:12 EDT From: Aralyn67@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks In a message dated 98-07-19 23:14:22 EDT, cavanaug@local.net writes: > > That is just too cool. I can probably find this plastic at a > fabric/crafty-poo store, eh? The possibilities are enormous, but I've > never had a good supply of plastic thin enough to work with, but durable > enough to hold up to the extensive cutting that, say, branches of > bar-n-vine would entail. Wow, that was a long sentence. > > I was just talking to Luiseach today about semi-permanent templates for > basic borders, but this is even better than my idea, which depended on > the light table. I do have stencils for shields and for large heraldic > charges that I've put on banners. > Hi all, Its pretty durable but like any stencil will warp if you cut out too much. I just stencil the leaves but draw all the vines. Yes it can be found in fabric-craft stores. Aralyn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:31:34 PDT From: "I.C. Kessler" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold leaf for flames? >I'm doing a scroll that has a couple of cooking fires in the marginalia, and I thought of a trick to make them seem to glow: put down gold leaf for the tongues of flame, then paint over it in red (I've been told you can paint over real gold; is that right?), leaving gaps for the gold to shine through. Does anybody have an opinion on this?< _The Visconti Hours_ (Meiss & Kirsch ISBN 0-8076-1359-2) In this book the author describes a technique used by one of the creators, Giovannino dei Grassi: "He enriched these pigments with three kinds of gold. ...(Shell gold, burnished gold)... Most exceptional of all, he glazed the gold in a transparant red oil...(blah blah blah)...His accomplishment soon impressed illuminators in france, especially the Boucicaut Master, but Giovannino alone commonly employed oil glaze in the borders as well as in the miniatures and only he combined it with so many other luminary devices. His ever-changing, refulgent red-gold remained unique in the history of book." Refulgent: shining radiently, resplendent ( I had to look that one up) Well if you can find a reproduction of a page from this MS (National Library of Florence, BR 397 and LF22) you'll see it. It looks pretty nifty and sounds like the effect you might be looking for. I'm not sure if you want to use oils on paper. You'll get a grease spot. It's red just a hair on the cool side. Perhaps you could use transparent watercolors w/ a bit of extra gum arabic or a touch of soap in it. - Isabel Isabel C Kessler ICQ# 7593252 Per bend vert and counter-ermine, on a bend counterchanged fimbriated, a greyhound courant argent. "I lie in my traces" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:44:01 PDT From: "I.C. Kessler" Subject: [scribes]: Size does matter I'm currently working on a piece based on a MS page that I don't know the size of. If anyone knows of the size of the original MS can you let me know? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Paris, Bibliothèque de Sainte-Geneviève MS. 777 folio 316r AKA "Livy's History of Rome" There's a reproduction of it in DeHamel's History of Illuminated MS (PL. 140). - Isabel Isabel C Kessler ICQ# 7593252 Per bend vert and counter-ermine, on a bend counterchanged fimbriated, a greyhound courant argent. "I lie in my traces" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:47:47 +0800 From: Matthew Legge Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dirty Tricks > >Its pretty durable but like any stencil will warp if you cut out too much. I >just stencil the leaves but draw all the vines. Yes it can be found in >fabric-craft stores. > Another alternative stencil material are accetate sheets used as covers for "comb" or spiral bound lecture notes. I got an A4 sheet from a printers for $0.75 Australian. Until next time Maidiu Ruadh Aneala, Lochac Matthew Legge Research Assistant, Road Accident Prevention Research Unit, Department of Public Health, University of Western Australia, Nedlands, WA 6907. email mlegge@dph.uwa.edu.au Homepage: http://www.publichealth.uwa.edu.au/roadwatch/index.htm Tel: (08) 9380 1263 Fax: (08) 9380 1199 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:59:17 EDT From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Liquid Acrylic In a message dated 07/16/98 09:42:08, Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com wrote: <> I've tried this stuff in the dip pen and I was pleased with how it worked. Out here in (usually) dry Dreiburgen, acrylic based inks tend to get globby on your nibs REAL FAST and this stuff was better than most. Luighseach ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:17:15 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Size does matter I.C. Kessler wrote: >=20 > I'm currently working on a piece based on a MS page that I don't know > the size of. If anyone knows of the size of the original MS can you le= t > me know? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? >=20 > Paris, Biblioth=E8que de Sainte-Genevi=E8ve > MS. 777 folio 316r > AKA "Livy's History of Rome" >=20 > There's a reproduction of it in DeHamel's History of Illuminated MS (PL. > 140). >=20 > - Isabel Hi, That appears to be a reference to the second edition of deHamel, a muc= h larger book than the first, which I have not updated yet. Livy, History of Rome, National Gallery of Victoria, MS 411/4 (The local = art gallery) This book is 440 * 325 mm. Providence includes Antoine, bastard son of Philip the Good, Duc de Burgandy. Written in Paris about 1405, the minaturist has been identified as Cite d= es Dames Master. This is one of several of these manuscripts written about this time. This is all talking about another manuscript altogether. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Victoria, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:29:54 -0500 From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold leaf for flames? Last year I painted a scroll that is based on the Visconti Hours that had some of the red gold on it. I achieved the same look using gouache and schminke gold. First, I laid down a layer of cadmium red deep and allowed it to dry. Then I layered the schminke gold on top and worked the paint brush so that the red started to re-hydrate and mix with the gold. I personally thought that the effect was stunning and pretty close to what is represented in the book. I don't know if this same technique would work with shell gold but it might be worth a try. Genevieve de Courtanvaux Steppes, Ansteorra >_The Visconti Hours_ (Meiss & Kirsch ISBN 0-8076-1359-2) >In this book the author describes a technique used by one of the >creators, Giovannino dei Grassi: >"He enriched these pigments with three kinds of gold. ...(Shell gold, >burnished gold)... Most exceptional of all, he glazed the gold in a >transparant red oil...(blah blah blah)...His accomplishment soon >impressed illuminators in france, especially the Boucicaut Master, but >Giovannino alone commonly employed oil glaze in the borders as well as >in the miniatures and only he combined it with so many other luminary >devices. His ever-changing, refulgent red-gold remained unique in the >history of book." > ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #174 *****************************