From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #1689 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, July 6 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1689 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Hindi translations Re: [scribes]: Reading a manuscript date [scribes]: Rabbit Glue Re: [scribes]: Rabbit Glue [scribes]: cheese/casein Re: [scribes]: More questions on binding agents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 02:54:49 -0500 From: Robert Knaus Subject: Re: [scribes]: Hindi translations From what I have seen the sanskrit would have been religious documents (non-Islamic) while the Hindi could have been either religious or legal documents. Since the Persians were slowly converted to Islam Hindi was used for some Islamic religious stuff (although the preference for sticking to Arabic was and is quite strong). Depending on time period Persian might have been written in Hindi or Arabic script. (Check out the tugra's for some beautiful caligraphy!) Claire Clement wrote: > Modern and Medieval seems fine for now. I'll research it more later and let > you know if there should be any changes. In any case, for a great deal of > India's "SCA-compatible time period", Northern India, home of Hindi, was > ruled by the Persians, whose script and language was used. (Thus the birth > of Urdu, - the national language of Pakistan - which is essentially Hindi > with a lot more Persian words thrown in, and written in arabic script.) So > this is an FYI for any interested in doing a period Indian scroll - > research the time period in India before you start. There are some > beautiful scrolls done in both Persian and Hindi/Sanskrit during the time > period. I'll do some research on the web and try to find some URLs of these > to post on the list. > > Regarding Sanskrit - much like Latin, it is the precursor of many > languages, and has remained the language of religion throughout history. It > has the same script as Hindi, but very different words. Scrolls can be > found in both languages, although I'm not sure which one for what reasons. > Again, I'd be happy to research this more, if anyone is interested. > > Claire > Kingdom of the West, Barony of Darkwood > > >Claire Clement wrote: > > > >> I've been catching up on e-mail, and am excited to see the recent > >> networking (that word - can't you tell I'm at work? : ) on translations. I > >> will be registering with the new site that John of East Kingdom is putting > >> up, but I thought I'd let you all know there will be someone on it (me) > >> available for Hindi translations. > > > >OK, so I'll have to add Hindi to the list of languages. :-) Each language is > >marked with a name and an "age" (e.g., for German, there's Modern, Middle, and > >Old; for Latin, there's Medieval and Classical); if I didn't know how the > >language's history broke down, I just went for Modern and Medieval. So should > >I have Modern and Medieval Hindi, or something else? (I know that "Medieval" > >for non-European languages is something of a misnomer; it's really a generic > >"compatible with SCA period".) > > > >(I thought about letting people enter their own language names, but I decided > >that'd be asking for trouble. If one translator mistypes the name, and > >another comes along and types it in correctly, then I'm going to have a mess > >to clean up in the database.) > > > >-- > >/===============================================================\ > >|John Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |HTML OK | > >|Francois Thibault |==========================================| > >|East Kingdom |"Time is money, and price is information."| > >|francis@thibault.org|--Russ Nelson | > >\===============================================================/ > > ________________________________________ > Claire Clement > Administrative Assistant > Educational Partnership Center > 3004 Mission Street > Santa Cruz, CA 95060 > (831)460-3010 > (831) 460-3002 (fax) > cclaire@cats.ucsc.edu > ________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 03:01:53 -0500 From: Robert Knaus Subject: Re: [scribes]: Reading a manuscript date For a fairly decent overview of Islamic dating, check out: http://www.pjbsware.demon.co.uk/calendar/faq/node5.htm Key Points: 1. The Islamic calendar (or Hijri calendar) is a purely lunar calendar. It contains 12 months that are based on the motion of the moon, and because 12 synodic months is only 12×29.53=354.36 days, the Islamic calendar is consistently shorter than a tropical year, and therefore it shifts with respect to the Christian calendar. 2. Years are counted since the Hijra, that is, Mohammed's flight to Medina, which is assumed to have taken place 16 July AD 622 (Julian calendar). On that date AH 1 started (AH = Anno Hegirae = year of the Hijra). 3. Each month starts when the lunar crescent is first seen (by an actual human being) after a new moon. And incidentally, in case anyone is interested: Information on the Jewish calendar at this URL, http://www.pjbsware.demon.co.uk/calendar/faq/node4.htm In Service, Al-yesari Russell Husted wrote: > Lilith, > AH is middle eastern unit of time based on a lunar calender stating with > mohamad. The current year, if I remember correctly is 1424AH or something > close to that. 24/10/1906 AD is the date you want. > > Maghribi > "In the western wing of the Muslim empire the evolution of Kufic took a new > direction. At first there was a noticeable rounding of the angles and a > dramatic increase in the depth of the sublinier curves. From 10th-century > Tunisia(Kairouan) this development spread to all North-West Africa and > Muslim Spain, heralding the so-called Maghribi(Western) Script, which was to > acquire an elegance to the cursive script." Islamic Calligraphy by yasin > hamid safadi, 1979 > > If you have any more questions, give me a yell. > > your servant, > mahee > > From: "Lilith" > To: > Subject: [scribes]: Reading a manuscript date > Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:10:42 -0500 > > Good evening, > > Quick question here, I am looking at a manuscript and trying to figure out > when the page was actually written. The text reads: "The page is from an old > teaching Koran written in black Indian ink written in Magribi script dated > 6/9/1324 AH 24/10/1906 AD." > Does it mean the script is based from 1324 and the page is from 1906? I'm > sorry if this all seems rather silly, but the way it is written kind of > threw me. I thought maybe someone else that is used to reading dates might > could give me a hand. > In service, > Lilith > Kingdom of Ansteorra > Barony of Loch Sollier > > << winmail.dat >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 19:11:28 +1000 From: Christine Robertson Subject: [scribes]: Rabbit Glue I have a whole bunch of rabbit skin glue -- comes in little granules. You can probably get some from picture framing supplies. A little goes a loooong way! I find I don't even need to significantly heat the glue -- as Ranthulthfr said, about equal parts of granules to hot water, just let it sit for a while and stir it a bit, ant it softens right up and pretty much dissolves. I've used it with great success as the binding agent for carbon-black ink. Incidentally, to any who have used quills and found the ink control horribly difficult -- make your own carbon-black ink. It works a treat with a quill. Essentially, take a small metal pot of water and place it over a candle so that the yellow part of the flame hits the bottom of the pot. Soot (carbon black) will collect at this spot -- scrape it off every ten minutes or so till you have a nice clump of it. (Replace the water if it boils -- surprising how fast you can boil water over a candle.) Mix in small quantities of about half-and-half water and dissolved skin glue until the soot has no lumps and it looks like ink when you dip a pen in it and write, and it is not too thick to flow nicely. The ink will keep for a week or two at cool temperatures before it starts to go off. You can probably fix this by adding methelated spirits or rubbing alcohol, corking the jar for a day or two, then letting the alcohol evaporate under cover -- but I haven't tested my ink again since I did this, so I'm not 100% sure that works OK. - --Yseult de Lacy, OL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:30:50 -0700 From: "corinna taylor/al frank" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Rabbit Glue Does rabbit-skin glus cause any problems with rotting-malodorousness? Back in my theatrical days we used hid glue in the scene paint. We always added a little Lysol to prevent this. I recall one show here we either forgot or ran out of Lysol, and the paint started rotting onstage in June heat and under hot lights. A large part of the audience disappeared each night during intermission. For those who don't want to make their own ink, stick ink works well with quills. It has a fish glue binder. Japanese sticks work better than Chinese, although Chinese are perhaps a little blacker. The Boko-Undu stick that sells for about $35.00 is the best I've tried. It will make many times more ink than you can buy bottled for that price. I've seen several sets of instructions with added gum or filtering and such, but none of that is really necessary. Corinna TreeGirtSea - ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine Robertson To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 2:11 AM Subject: [scribes]: Rabbit Glue > I have a whole bunch of rabbit skin glue -- comes in little granules. > You can probably get some from picture framing supplies. A little > goes a loooong way! I find I don't even need to significantly heat the > glue -- as Ranthulthfr said, about equal parts of granules to hot water, > just let it sit for a while and stir it a bit, ant it softens right up > and pretty much dissolves. I've used it with great success as the binding > agent for carbon-black ink. > > Incidentally, to any who have used quills and found the ink control horribly > difficult -- make your own carbon-black ink. It works a treat with a quill. > > Essentially, take a small metal pot of water and place it over a candle > so that the yellow part of the flame hits the bottom of the pot. Soot > (carbon black) will collect at this spot -- scrape it off every ten minutes > or so till you have a nice clump of it. (Replace the water if it boils -- > surprising how fast you can boil water over a candle.) > Mix in small quantities of about half-and-half water and dissolved > skin glue until the soot has no lumps and it looks like ink when you dip > a pen in it and write, and it is not too thick to flow nicely. > > The ink will keep for a week or two at cool temperatures before it starts > to go off. You can probably fix this by adding methelated spirits or > rubbing alcohol, corking the jar for a day or two, then letting the alcohol > evaporate under cover -- but I haven't tested my ink again since I did > this, so I'm not 100% sure that works OK. > > --Yseult de Lacy, OL > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 07:04:40 PDT From: "Elyse Boucher" Subject: [scribes]: cheese/casein Greetings from Merouda. Saradwen, you will find instructions for making cheeese glue in your copy of Theopholus (sp?). You will find more modern info on casein in Ralph Meyer's book about Artist's materials, "Artist's manual of methods and materials," I believe it is called. There are also instructions for this substance in several other books, but as I'm just flying through my mail for a few moments before going back to packing for WW7, I can't give you more details at the moment. If no one has answwered you by the time I return on Monday, I'll give you more detail then. TTFN, Merouda - ------------ Merouda Pendray: Caer Anterth, Northshield, Middle. (Elyse C. Boucher: West Allis, Wisconsin, USA) Per pale sable and Or, a gryphon segreant countorney within an orle of feathers counterchanged. "Semper ubi sub ubi" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/merouda ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:31:29 EDT From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: More questions on binding agents In a message dated 07/05/00 08:44:39 PM, sburnell@raex.com writes: << Fish glue, as I understand it. Again, how is this made? What kind of fish is used and what part of the fish is used? And rabbit glue - once again, what part of the rabbit is used and how is that made?>> Fish glue and rabbit glue, IIRC, are both made from the skins of the respective critters. In fact, my old jar of rabbit glue flakes said "rabbit skin glue" Casein (from a snipped part of the post) is milk protein, but I don't know how it is separated from fluid milk and prepared. Luighseach ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #1689 ******************************