From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #1679 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, July 3 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1679 In this issue: [scribes]: FW: Goettingen Gutenber Bible Online Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) Re: [scribes]: FW: Goettingen Gutenber Bible Online Re: [scribes]: Why awardee-specific scrolls? Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) Re: [scribes]: japanese scrolls Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) RE: [scribes]: Please help with Latin word forms Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) [scribes]: RE: FW: Goettingen Gutenberg Bible Online [scribes]: French Translations Re: [scribes]: French Translations ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:58:10 -0400 From: "Holly Grimmett" Subject: [scribes]: FW: Goettingen Gutenber Bible Online Check this out folks.. :-)---Holly---<--<-@ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu [mailto:owner-sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu]On Behalf Of Jenne Heise Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 3:12 PM To: SCA Arts list; SCA Forum for Research in Medieval and Renaissance Re-enactment Subject: Goettingen Gutenber Bible Online >From The Scout Report: 3. Goettingen Gutenberg Bible [Flash] http://www.gutenbergdigital.de/ "The Goettingen State and University Library has announced the final version of its digitized Gutenberg Bible. All 1,282 pages of the Bible, one of only four complete, illuminated copies on vellum, have been scanned and placed online in both German and English versions. Visitors can browse the text by Book via a pull-down menu and then select pages to view as double or single pages, the latter providing the largest image. Eighty-eight of the pages are illuminated and partly gilded and may be viewed separately. In addition to the Bible, the site also offers two digitized documents: "the Goettingen Model Book, a contemporary manuscript which provided the patterns for the decoration of the Goettingen Bible; and the famous Helmasperger's Notarial Instrument (6th November 1455), dealing with Gutenberg's invention, known as the 'Werk der Buecher' (work of books) and Gutenberg's business relations with Johannes Fust." Also included are brief features on Gutenberg's life and printing. The Goettingen State and University Library is to be thanked for making this rare and beautiful text freely available to the world. [MD]" Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@tulgey.browser.net disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me. "My hands are small I know, but they're not yours, they are my own" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 19:38:35 -0600 From: "Anthony J. Bryant" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) "UnruhBays, Melanie A" wrote: > I understand (and agree with you on) the pros of "real" scripts. As a matter > of fact, in a perfect world, I'd have translations of all the texts into the > recipient's (or the Crown's) native languages. But I don't. And although I > have a Latin resource (Don/Master Maxmillian is a wonderful human being...) > I don't know anyone who can translate English into Russian, Japanese, Greek, > etc, and I have a broader scope of qualified people in this kingdom, due to > my office. I can (and *do*) do Japanese (and I can even give you kobun -- Classical Japanese -- rather than modern J. I have done Arabic and Russian (and probably could, again, with a few weeks to go over relevant vocabulary and grammar points. One of the best resources is the local university. I've never met a grad student or professor who didn't relish a chance to do something different and funky, especially if you offer 'em a beer or two for the help. After talking last night with another artsyfartsy junky fellow, I came to an understanding of my gut reaction to pseudo scripts. I guess one of my problems is that I look at some of the pseudo stuff as one of the things that keeps us from being taken seriously as recreation/reenactment, and keeps us in the area of "that's nice, now please go away" in respects of real world academe. If we were serious, we'd be trying to do The Real Thing. I guess it's in the same category of "do you fight in plastic sporting gear or do you fight in Milanese harness?" In some sense, at least a GOOD pseudo (and there are *very* few hands I'd consider a good duplication) replicates someone who uses plastic but at least camouflages it with leather or surcotes or so on. > The sad fact may be that "moving closer to authenticity" for many people may > go only so far as a psudo script. That may be the limit of their means in > the area of languages. I think it is laudable that some scribes will venture > beyond textura quadrata to a script that, at least at first blush, *looks* > Arabic. Yes, an authentic Arabic-language script would be way-cool, but it's > just not within the realm of do-able for most scribes. > That's why you work with people who *specialize*, if possible. > > So - what's a solution here? How about a list of SCA people willing to do > translations? Does this exist, or does someone need to start it? Good idea. As I said, I do Japanese. I *can* work with Russian or Arabic, given enough time. Anyone else? Effingham ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 20:51:42 EDT From: Fitchybear1@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: FW: Goettingen Gutenber Bible Online In a message dated 7/2/00 4:03:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hsulliva@tampabay.rr.com writes: << http://www.gutenbergdigital.de/ >> Wow!-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 09:03:17 -0700 From: Mary Hysong Subject: Re: [scribes]: Why awardee-specific scrolls? Jennifer wrote: > > > > >Why do we always make awards specific to the recipient, rather than > specific to the GIVER? . > > > >Has anyone ever thought about this? > When I first started scribing, many principality and kingdom awards were done like this: right after coronet and crown lists a set of master scrolls were made up for all princ. and king. awards, in a style appropriate to the new coronet and crown. These were copied onto heavy card stock, then painted and decorated. the designs were retired at the end of the reign. Now we have a smaller kingdom and no principality which means less work ;-)we still do preprints, many new illuminators learn by painting these and they are designed in a number of styles and varying levels of complexity. We also do a lot of original scrolls especially for those awards which are given once per reign, champions, et. Most of these are not related to the persona of the crown, though they will occasionally have representational portraits of the crown on them. Personally, especially when I don't know who's going to get a particular scroll I use heraldry, kingdom badge and ensign in the borders or in the initial letters, the badge of the order... the princ. had an order of the fanged wolf, I used to draw the badge as a banner, then another wolf holding the banner staff. Look through heraldry books and find cool looking supporters and use them to hold up the badge of the order. Add kingdom livery to the peoples clothes and horse barding, et. By giving the crown a number of different styles to choose from, they can pick one they think the recipient will like or that they feel suits the occasion or person. sometimes they will request something specific for a person. However, when I am doing a final armigerous scroll I try to find out about the person, if it's before the award is given I'll go to their home baron, their peer, et. and ask guestiions about what the person likes. and go from there. whew, rambled on enough....must be email withdrawals from being on vacation and not even getting to see a computer all week;-) Mairi, aTenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 22:39:20 -0400 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) "UnruhBays, Melanie A" wrote: > So - what's a solution here? How about a list of SCA people willing to do > translations? Does this exist, or does someone need to start it? I can create a Website for this list: translators would register as willing to do translations, scribes would come say what they need, and the system would send out the requests. The system would *not* give the scribe the translator's email address, so that it would be up to the translator to decide to respond or not. In fact, if it seems useful, I could even set it up to permit translators to work anonymously (since there may be people out there who are that sensitive about their privacy, and I don't want to exclude them). I will do this if at least one translator tells me they would register and one scribe tells me they would use it. (Oh--and if nobody tells me such a thing already exists. :-) - -- /===============================================================\ |John Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |HTML OK | |Francois Thibault |==========================================| |East Kingdom |Veni, Vidi, Ridi: I came, I saw, I mocked.| |francis@thibault.org| | \===============================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 22:40:38 -0400 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: japanese scrolls Cheri Corbett wrote: > I would have to agree with Maredudd that translations of our scroll > texts, particularly if they are "sanctioned" texts, are difficult to > come by. Keep in mind that not all Kingdoms have official texts. In the East, each scribe is free to make it up (and boy was that a shock to me, coming from the West :-). - -- /===============================================================\ |John Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |HTML OK | |Francois Thibault |==========================================| |East Kingdom |Veni, Vidi, Ridi: I came, I saw, I mocked.| |francis@thibault.org| | \===============================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:00:12 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) As a scribe, I would love to have this site you describe... and I would bet there is more than one translator out there who would want it... Thank you so very much for the wonderful suggestion, John!! KHvS - ----- Original Message ----- > I can create a Website for this list: translators would register as willing to > do translations, scribes would come say what they need, and the system would > send out the requests. The system would *not* give the scribe the translator's > email address, so that it would be up to the translator to decide to respond or > not. In fact, if it seems useful, I could even set it up to permit translators > to work anonymously (since there may be people out there who are that sensitive > about their privacy, and I don't want to exclude them). > > I will do this if at least one translator tells me they would register and one > scribe tells me they would use it. (Oh--and if nobody tells me such a thing > already exists. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:48:03 -0400 From: "PRW" Subject: RE: [scribes]: Please help with Latin word forms Greetings unto the Scribes of the Knowne Worlde, from Malcolm. Along this, and the "accuracy in styles" vein, would there be anyone out there that can translate into French? Preferably, French of the late 15th Century, although I'm not too sure of the differences. I focused more on the German and Anglican lexicons in College. I thank you all for your time and attention. As always, I remain, In Service to the Dream. Malcolm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 23:48:50 -0600 From: Holly Cochran Subject: Re: [scribes]: Pseudo-scripts (was Re: Japanese scrolls) John Stracke wrote: > "UnruhBays, Melanie A" wrote: > > > So - what's a solution here? How about a list of SCA people willing to do > > translations? Does this exist, or does someone need to start it? > > I can create a Website for this list: translators would register as willing to > do translations, scribes would come say what they need, and the system would > send out the requests. The system would *not* give the scribe the translator's > email address, so that it would be up to the translator to decide to respond or > not. In fact, if it seems useful, I could even set it up to permit translators > to work anonymously (since there may be people out there who are that sensitive > about their privacy, and I don't want to exclude them). > > I will do this if at least one translator tells me they would register and one > scribe tells me they would use it. (Oh--and if nobody tells me such a thing > already exists. :-) > > -- > /===============================================================\ > |John Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |HTML OK | > |Francois Thibault |==========================================| > |East Kingdom |Veni, Vidi, Ridi: I came, I saw, I mocked.| > |francis@thibault.org| | > \===============================================================/ I would use it....probably a lot, for things like Latin, German, Middle English, Old Norse, etc. etc. .....and etc... what a cool idea! Ms. Aidan Cocrinn Barony of al-Barran Kingdom of the Outlands ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:57:26 -0400 From: "Holly Grimmett" Subject: [scribes]: RE: FW: Goettingen Gutenberg Bible Online :-) BTW folks, having a fast connection, Netscape, and the Flash plug in are almost a necessity.. but the site is definitely amazing, try to see it if you can. :-)---Holly---<--<-@ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-scribes@castle.org [mailto:owner-scribes@castle.org]On > Behalf Of Fitchybear1@aol.com > > In a message dated 7/2/00 4:03:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > hsulliva@tampabay.rr.com writes: > > << http://www.gutenbergdigital.de/ >> > > Wow!-JimBear __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:10:41 -0600 From: "Cindy Croy" Subject: [scribes]: French Translations Greetings, I can't personally help with much translation (although I'm sure I'll be needing it!) But I have access to a French Teacher, (who studied in France, just got back from a trip there with her class) and I'm sure she'd love to help out. I can even try to find out about the difference between modern and 15C. Just my tupence - -Aelia the Lost On 3 Jul 00, at 1:48, PRW wrote: > Greetings unto the Scribes of the Knowne Worlde, from Malcolm. > > Along this, and the "accuracy in styles" vein, would there be anyone > out there that can translate into French? Preferably, French of the > late 15th Century, although I'm not too sure of the differences. I > focused more on the German and Anglican lexicons in College. > > I thank you all for your time and attention. > > As always, I remain, > In Service to the Dream. > Malcolm > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:39:59 -0600 From: "Anthony J. Bryant" Subject: Re: [scribes]: French Translations Cindy Croy wrote: > Greetings, > I can't personally help with much translation (although I'm sure I'll > be needing it!) But I have access to a French Teacher, (who > studied in France, just got back from a trip there with her class) > and I'm sure she'd love to help out. I can even try to find out about > the difference between modern and 15C. > Just my tupence I have a textbook for Old French if it'll help. Effingham ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #1679 ******************************