From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #165 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, July 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 165 In this issue: [scribes]: Re-doing Gold Leaf Re: [scribes]: gum arabic Re: [scribes]: gum arabic Re: [scribes]: Supply list Re: [scribes]: Lettering Guide Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: supplies part deux Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade [scribes]: Ink Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:11:43 -0800 From: Trish Waldon Subject: [scribes]: Re-doing Gold Leaf Hi, everybody, Last spring, while working on my first scroll, I did a large initial with gold leaf using an adhesive size. This was just before Tetchuba posted an excellent message saying specifically NOT to use this stuff, that it wouldn't give the best results. Sigh.... Well, now the scroll is almost finished (I work slowly) and lo and behold, I am not entirely happy with the initial. It doesn't look bad, it's just that it doesn't look as greatas I would like, and I can't add more layers of gold or get any polish from burnishing. Is there a way that the gold can be removed and done again with traditional gesso, or should I just leave it alone? The ground is a vellum by Rick Casavin, in case that is significant. Thanks to all, Rowan Oldway **************************************************************** Trish Waldon voice: (831) 459-3857 Social Sciences Development fax: (831) 459-5900 310 Social Sciences I email: trishw@cats.ucsc.edu University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:24:53 -0600 (MDT) From: "Morgan E. Smith" Subject: Re: [scribes]: gum arabic You can buy gum arabic in two ways: as a powder, which you will dissolve yourself (tie up powder in a muslin bag and suspend in a bucket of water - make that a small bucket, unless you need lots - and allow to soak for a couple of days, as the gum dissolves slowly into the water. Do not disturb.) Or you can buy it premixed into solution (it is sold for lithography purposes this way, in two-gallon containers - at least that's my experience) but the premixed version does contain some other ingredients, notably a small amount of acidic something (usually, but not always nitric acid) partly as a preservative. It might affect the end purpose, although the concentration is very small. Morgan the Unknown On Thu, 16 Jul 1998, Cindy Baker wrote: > > > >>Gum arabic > > > >I have no idea what gum arabic is. I believe it acts as a binder with > >pigments and that is why it is added to the sumi gold. > > > Gum arabic is dried tree sap. (I think it comes from some type of acacia > tree???) It is ground up, dissolved in water and used as a binder for > paint. It can also be used to wash down metal nibs to help the ink flow a > little better. The FAQ for this list may have more information, but that's > the extent of my knowledge. > Ellen > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:12:35 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: gum arabic In a message dated 98-07-16 22:33:55 EDT, mesmith@calcna.ab.ca writes: << Or you can buy it premixed into solution (it is sold for lithography purposes this way, in two-gallon containers - at least that's my experience) but the premixed version does contain some other ingredients, notably a small amount of acidic something (usually, but not always nitric acid) partly as a preservative. It might affect the end purpose, although the concentration is very small. Morgan the Unknown >> you can buy it at any good art supply store pre mixed in a smaller quantity that 2 gallons (I would need the preservative in it as it would take about two lifetimes to use that much for me) should cost about $8.00. It is the gum (sap) of an acacia shrub either arabica or senegal and is a more potent binder than Glair (thouroughly beaten eggwhite) and can be used in conjuction with glair or egg yolk. The problem with gum arabic is that it can tend to be brittle. Daniel V. Thompson suggests some honey or sugar be added to the mixture to make it more flexible.......though I don't always agree with Thompson (blasphemy!) I agree with him here in both cases.... The solution we usually buy at the art store is around 7%, if I run my period pigment really thin I might boost the adhesion of the egg yolk binder with some gum arabic usually in a higher consistency.........I disolve my arabic powder in less water over a longer period of time it ends up being the consistency of karo syrup if you let it evaporate.....this allows me to do washes in thin layers but with good adhesion-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:45:12 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Supply list Helen Schultz (KHvS) wrote: > > No Aidan, you aren't the only one. I learned how to do really fine lines > on ceramic pieces using liner brushes > By the way, I think you asked about the Ames Lettering Guide earlier, > ((lots of complicated lettering guide stuff snipped)) > Meisterin Katarina Helene (KHvS) > Sigh. The explanation for using the lettering guide sounds wayyyy too much like either a slide rule and/or math. Is it for making the lines on the paper, then, to do the callig upon? (this is why I use graph paper--cuz people a lot smarter than me already made the lines) Aidan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:55:22 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Lettering Guide Nic wrote: > > I second that - I can't get mine to make any sense either. I even > interogated it under hot lights! > > Giulia > The Ames lettering guide impaired Snork!! LOL!! Lets try good cop/bad cop on it!! Vee haf vays of making it talk.... Aidan > > >OK, still feeling dumb and inadequate here...grrrr...just exactly how > >does one use the (Ames) lettering guide? I never got it, still dont get > >it.... > > > >Ms. Aidan, the eternally clueless > > Lady Giulia Isabella da Venezia Nicolette Deplazes > Rudivale - Northshield - Middle Larimore North Dakota > Grand Forks - North Dakota And just for the enjoyment of > Alessandra Hot - Hot - Hot Sunny - Sunny - Sunny > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:58:47 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade I.C. Kessler wrote: > 12) bag eraser > > - Isabel > Whats a bag eraser???? Aidan, who is up wayyy too late ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:01:44 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: supplies part deux Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com wrote: > > >>Aidan again. I also keep seeing triangles listed. Again, being a mutant, > I am beginnning to suspect I am doing things the hard way here....what > are the triangles used for, that the ruler(s) and T-squares and graph > paper don't cover?<< > > I don't know about any other type of triangle, Aidan, but a right triangle > (one with a right angle) is used for making perfect 90 degree angles. If > you've never taken or learned proper drafting techniques you'd probably > wouldn't do it this way, but the way I layout my scrolls is I cut the paper > at least 1/2 inch larger than I want the finished size all around. Since > the paper I normally buy is 30x40, I cut it into 15x20 sheets to get 14x18 > finished scrolls. This gives me some scrap to test pens and paints on > along one edge. I use my T square to get the paper mostly horizontal on > the drawing board - it won't be perfect because most rag papers have a > deckled edge so unless I'm using my cut edge getting it even is tough. > Once it's taped down I draw where I want the horizontal lines to define the > 14x18 size and use the T square for those. Then I put the right triangle > so it's resting on top of the T square and mark where the other 2 lines for > the outside diameter should be. This means that when I'm done, I'll have a > perfectly rectangular piece of paper - it won't be slightly off which can > happen if you're measuring from the edges. > > Likewise, for the rest of the horizontal lines I use the T square, and for > the vertical lines I use the Tsquare with the right triangle. This gives > me exactly perpendicular lines. > > Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid Wow. Great explanation. As I suspected, I was doing it the hard way and being annoyed that it wasnt perfect. Guess I'll go pillage my husband's drafting kit and set him to training me. You think he would have said something by now...grrr....c'mere CouchBoy!!! Aidan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:07:51 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Thomas Brownwell wrote: > > Hi Thorfinn > > I've had to clean up messes on vellum, and never used such fine sandpaper as you > describe (though I *do* have some 1200 grit and higher for woodworking > projects). Would you be so kind as to post just *how* you cleaned up / polished > the vellum, and what you do before then after? I'd love to hear, and I'm sure > others would too. Thanks!!! > > Thomas Hi, I have the sandpaper glued to a block of wood, I also usually "stretch" my vellum. The current scroll I am working on is 600 * 450 of working surface and about 650 * 500 for the whole piece (I got to cut it from the hide, still with the stumps of the legs, lots of leftover pieces, also the guy who made it is out of business). Beware, that 1200 grit sandpaper feels like a silk, but it does not need to be glued on to the block. Stretching is making the hide thoroughly wet and then nailing it tight onto a board, this gives you a portable art board. I have 40 nails (upholstery and blue tacks) around the edge of this piece. This is very similar to putting a drum head on a shell, particularly a bodhrain. It helps when you paint a large area in keeping the vellum stable. Then when the vellum is dry, usually a day or two later, leave it a week if you can. Then take the sandpaper and always in the one direction polish the vellum and it will come up as smooth as hot pressed paper or smoother. It is similar to the copy paper in my printer as I type. I just had a scroll delivered to central West a few weeks ago, Viscounty scroll for Gabriel of Greenwood, I three quarters done he lords viscounty scroll in a matching style. as ever (hoping that is what you want) Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:38:35 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: [scribes]: Ink Question Has anyone ever used Stanton Quills' inks? I have an old bottle of their Sepia ink, and thought I'd try an experiment adding the sepia to my Green-bottle Sumi ink to get a medium brown-black color. The next thing I knew, all of the black pigment from the Sumi had precipitated out and formed blobs in the bottom of my mixing dish. When I touched the blobs, they felt like tar, stuck to my finger, left a sticky residue. It washed right off so it was water soluble, but it really felt like sap. So, any ideas? If I remember the original packaging that came with the Stanton ink, it said that the recipe used Oak Galls, meaning that what I have is an Iron Gall ink, not a true Sepia (made from cuttlefish), but the packaging might have been wrong. Anyway, any ideas what caused the reaction, and any ideas on the possible composition of my ink-goo? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #165 *****************************