From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #163 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, July 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 163 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade [scribes]: crow quills [scribes]: Mechanical Pencils Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade [scribes]: RE: tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Re: [scribes]: Supply list [scribes]: Re: Mechanical Pencils Re: [scribes]: crow quills [scribes]: Supply list [scribes]: tracing [scribes]: gum arabic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:27:29 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Hmmm -- I find the "minimum needed" changes depending on what I'm doing and where I will be. At a demo, I'll have the penner and inkhorn. At home, I won't. For Calligraphy: Ruler pencil or scriber (to line the page -- either a mark or an indentation) Eraser quill, ink stick, water dropper, ink stone (either Japanese or Chinese style), pen knife, and whetstone, and small pottery bottle with cork stopper for water. OR steel nib pen and liquid india ink red gouache for rubricating or red stick ink, with its own ink stone. blank paper to shield my hand with paper to write upon (or vellum, sometimes) Exemplar, if needed - ---- Other nice things to go with the above : penner and inkhorn to carry it all Japanese iron dragon with spaces between the spikes to hold pens or brushes without rolling away Wooden holder for ink bottle cloth for wiping nibs For Painting: If the design is not on the final paper yet, then lots of quadrille paper (I lay it out on a quad pad to get all corners square) lots of tracing paper a lightbox or tape and a window pencil and eraser Once the design is on the final paper, then I use: small pottery bottle with cork stopper for water brushes gouache something to use as a palette -- maybe even a real one. Usually I use one of the Japanese circular ceramic 8-partition palettes with a well in the center. crowquill and ink for outlining afterwards Apron (mine is pseudo-Kells patterned cloth) Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 01:32:59 EDT From: Varju@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade In a message dated 98-07-15 21:49:42 EDT, pearvert@apk.net writes: << Am I the only scribe that has never calligraphed with anything except my steel nibs or quills? Is there some secret that I'm missing? >> Well. . .I started out by being given a Sheaffer cartridge pen and so that is what I'm using because I'm comfortable with it. I am learning to use a dip pen because my father is letting me borrow a Speedball pen he had lying around (also his old Rapidiograph set). I have spoken to several scribes in my area about quills, but their opinion is that quills are difficult to work with in this dry climate, so I may only get as far as using steel nibs. Honestly I think its a comfort thing. . .you use and are the best with whatever you started with. Noemi Outlands ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:25:01 -0700 From: Laurie Cavanaugh Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade David Columbus wrote: > Am I the only scribe that has never calligraphed with anything except my > steel nibs or quills? Is there some secret that I'm missing? I'm > beginning to feel left out here with all the cartridge pen discussion..... > > Christofano Nope! The one time I picked up a cartridge pen the cartridge got ink all over my hands, my clothes, and everything but the scroll. I guess I'm one of those who had better stay low-tech. :-) Another item I find extremely useful is a tiny plastic squeeze bottle that can dispense that one drop of water into my paint. Dorinda's commentary had me laughing loudly, because just today I looked through about twelve plastic palettes looking for the least dirty one to use. :-) I was doing pale shades of grey, though, so I gave in and scrubbed one. I had these daydreams of being in a real medieval workshop, and telling my apprentices to mix up some pale flesh tone, scrub that palette, and fetch me another glass of water. If only I could train the dog to.... never mind. He ended up with a noseful of red paint today when I stupidly set a palette down too low. I would have taken a photo, but I figured by the time I got the camera out there would be red dog-nose prints all over the house. Doggy is not a necessary tool of the trade. :-) [no, it was not a toxic pigment] Morgan Athenry Dreiburgen, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:11:53 -0100 (GMT-0100) From: Anna Troy Subject: [scribes]: crow quills before I joined this list I'd never heard of crows quills, can you buy them somewhere our do all you folks go lurking around crows nests. And which feather is it that is used? Anna de Byxe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:05:48 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: [scribes]: Mechanical Pencils I had to think twice about the mechanical pencil sizes of 0.005 and 0.003. These are a typographic error. Either they should be 0.5 millimeter and 0.3 millimeter leads (I love the latter!), *OR* 0.0005 and 0.0003 meter leads respectively. Someone suggested that one use a refillable pencil that uses the larger leads (I believe 0.046 inches?) and a sharpener to keep them to a perfect point. I'd like to add that the fatter standard pencil size of 0.7 millimeter leads can be kept sharp with a piece of handy sandpaper (every once in a while scrape it on the rough surface to renew the edge), and it doesn't get dull as quickly as the 0.5 mm pencils. The 0.3 mm pencils are really nice to use, but much harder to find (and the same for lead refills...). Yours in service Thomas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:50:30 -0400 From: Lea Viljanen Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade > Am I the only scribe that has never calligraphed with anything except my > steel nibs or quills? Is there some secret that I'm missing? I'm > beginning to feel left out here with all the cartridge pen discussion..... Nope... I started with steel nibs because a) my husband had some in his drawer and they were the first applicable tool for my experiments b) this list made me think that's the best way But currently I don't dip, I use the Pelikan ink in plastic dropper thingies (you cannot really call them bottles, can you) and load the reservoir by dropping some ink into it. - -- Lady Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug Barony of Aarnimetsa, Drachenwald gules and sable. mka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen ladybug@iki.fi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:10:18 -0400 From: "DarkStar" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Nope that's all i've ever used also. Must be the way I was taught. My concern with the ink cartridge pens is the quality of the ink. If you use them on certain kinds of paper they tend to look transparent, and Purple rather than that nice deep opaque black. I'm use to getting with Higgins Eternal, a handground ink stick. Also, how do the cartridge inks hold up with time, exposure to light etc? I guess we'll find out eventually. Talisidhe >Am I the only scribe that has never calligraphed with anything except my >steel nibs or quills? Is there some secret that I'm missing? I'm >beginning to feel left out here with all the cartridge pen discussion..... > >Christofano > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:58:57 -0400 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: [scribes]: RE: tools of the trade Since the person who sent me this privately didn't include a copy for the scribes list, I snipped his/her name, but thought someone else might be interested. I also fixed the typos! :) It has also been interesting looking at everyone else's list. When I did mine I thought I had caught everything, but then in reading everyone else's I kept thinking "oh yeah, I should have added that". "Oh yeah, I have one of those in the old tackle box". Right up until I got to the cat . . . . Dorinda >Greetings >I'm just beginning scribal arts and don't know what everything you mention is. I am not exactly sure what some of it is either! (see gum arabic!) >What is/are: >Sumi gold Sumi gold is my favorite "gold leaf substitute" if you aren't ready for gold leafing or can't afford it. It is a paint that comes in a little circular pan about 3 or 4 inches in diameter. (Cost = $10 - one pan can last for several years). The way I was taught to use it was to put 12 drops of water in the pan and mix it with a paint brush. Pour off and scoop out all the wet paint into a baby food jar and add one or two drops of gum arabic. (The reason to not add gum arabic right to the pan is it makes the sumi gold turn browner over time. This way you always can start fresh from your pan.) I highly recommend the stuff. It is much nicer than Winsor and Newton's gold guauche. It can be purchased from Paper & Ink as well as some other places. It comes in a red shade and a browner shade (I can't remember what they call it). The red shade is brighter and nicer. >Click eraser These are the white erasers that come in a plastic pencil shaped holder. (When you wear out the eraser end, there is a thing on the side of the holder you slide to move more eraser into position. It makes a clicking sound and thus gets called a click eraser). They sell refills for the holders. >Drafting tape Drafting tape is like masking tape but not as sticky so you can use it to hold down your scroll corners or edges with less risk of getting that nasty tape goo all over everything. It is not perfect though, I have left it on too long and pressed too hard on top of it and still got a little tape goo. (I suspect there is a more technical term for this). >Gum arabic I have no idea what gum arabic is. I believe it acts as a binder with pigments and that is why it is added to the sumi gold. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:17:15 -0400 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tools of the trade Wrote: >>- a computer generated line guide for practice >Could you explain this one? As in, how do you generate it, and get the >lines at the right spacing? I make up sheets by printing the underscore about five million times on any word processor. Then I go through and print it at different font sizes. (I have sheets spaced at everything from 6 point size up to 14 point. I find that most of my work fits into the 9 or 10 point range). This will give you spacing for very small calligraphy to fairly large (although not immense if you are doing something real big). Then I pick the one that fits best for the scroll I am doing and set my lettering guide to the setting to make the same spacing on the scroll. Then I use the computer generated lines for practice and spacing exercises. If I mess up, I pull out another piece of paper and don't have to reline the darn thing. The lines are also dark enough from the computer to be seen through some types of paper (although I don't generally do that on actual scrolls it is handy for invitations etc.) Occasionally I want to use spacing that fits in between computer sizes and I have to do it all by hand, but not very often. >>- a french curve that I can't seem to use without making a mess >They never have the lip for inking; I just tear lots of strips of drafting >tape and stack them up on the back, maybe 4 or 5 layers of tape in several >spots. That gives it enough lift to clear the ink. I have one with a lip! They do exist! However, I always find myself wanting to flip the thing over to get the right curve, and the lip is on the wrong side. Maybe I need French Curve Lessons. >>- a circle template, a computer template and a small protractor >Computer template? Could you explain that one, too? By this I meant a little template with commonly used computer and electronic symbols. There are little diamonds and triangles and other stuff that come in handy. >>- toothpicks. I can't live without toothpicks >And how do you use them? Sounds like I have lots of neat tricks to learn. Toothpicks are great for mixing paint, transfering small bits of color or gum arabic or the like from one place to another, picking out debris that accidentally gets on a scroll or in paint, sticking into paint tubes, and stabbing people who bother you while you are trying to mead a deadline. Since they are cheap, you don't have to worry about cleaning them. Some people also use them for doing dots on Celtic scrolls. Dorinda Courtenay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:36:32 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Supply list No Aidan, you aren't the only one. I learned how to do really fine lines on ceramic pieces using liner brushes with long and healthy reservoirs (meaning they will hold a goodly amount of paint). And I don't think you are some sort of a mutant... just an individual!!! ;-) By the way, I think you asked about the Ames Lettering Guide earlier, too. I started using the Ames guide about 7 years ago, but was introduced to the Linex Liner about 4 years ago... it is hand over fist better, as it allows you to take full advantage of the metric scales. The guides are small pieces of plastic with a moving circular disk in the center. This disk contains a long row of holes evenly space in the center, and several other variations of holes on the rest of it. On its edges, are measurements that line up with marks on the outer portion of the guide. By lining these marks up you can change the size of the lines. It then rests on a ruler (or T-square), and you place your pencil in the selected holes and pull the guide along the ruler. That is why (IMHO) the .05 pencils don't work well in them, the leads are too slender to hold the weight of the guide and will snap off. The drafting type of mechanical pencil is a stronger lead and can be sharpened to an awesome point to make nice fine lines. Meisterin Katarina Helene (KHvS) - ---------- > Aidan here. I keep seeing people listing assorted sizes of really tiny > brushes (10/0, 20/0, etc.) on their "must have" list. I am beginning to > suspect that I am some sort of a mutant--the smallest brush I have is a > 3/0. And I do really tiny stuff (sometimes) with no problem. I used to > paint D&D miniatures (shhh....) with those really really tiny brushes, > but can't imagine using them on scrolls. Hmmmm. Am I the only twisted > soul out there painting teeny tiny lines with a great big brush? I know, > its the Robert of Coldcastle gene in me.... > > Ms. Aidan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:35:11 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Mechanical Pencils I have .7mm, .5mm and .3mm pencils in my box. I prefer to use the .3mm ones when I am working on a scroll as opposed to a rough draft or layout. The leads are so thin and fragile that they will break before they leave an impression in the paper. They are also easier to erase completely. I also find it helpful to sharpen these on sandpaper when I'm doing small Celtic designs. You can literally get a pin point edge. The .5mm pencils are mostly for sketches or long lines that will be inked later (For example: the bars in bar and ivy.). The .7mm pencils belong to the children. Oops, and I was the one who bought them those so they would leave *my* stuff alone. 8*} Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:52:37 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: crow quills Anna, I don't know where to get real crow quills, but most people (I think, anyway) are talking about the metal nibs called crow quills. Speedball makes one brand, and Brause makes one called the EF-66. But, for real quills, I believe the best feathers to use, no matter from which bird, are the flight feathers. Good luck in your search. KHvS - ---------- > From: Anna Troy > To: scribes@castle.org > Subject: [scribes]: crow quills > Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 3:11 AM > > before I joined this list I'd never heard of crows quills, can you buy > them somewhere our do all you folks go lurking around crows nests. And > which feather is it that is used? > > Anna de Byxe > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:03:39 -0500 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: Supply list At 10:19 PM 7/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Aidan here. I keep seeing people listing assorted sizes of really tiny >brushes (10/0, 20/0, etc.) on their "must have" list. I am beginning to >suspect that I am some sort of a mutant--the smallest brush I have is a >3/0. And I do really tiny stuff (sometimes) with no problem. I used to >paint D&D miniatures (shhh....) with those really really tiny brushes, >but can't imagine using them on scrolls. Hmmmm. Am I the only twisted >soul out there painting teeny tiny lines with a great big brush? I know, >its the Robert of Coldcastle gene in me.... > >Ms. Aidan Nope. If you get a really good quality brush that keeps a point, small lines are possible even with a large size. I like the sable brushes where the bristles are hand-set into the ferrule, so that they all curve inward toward the center to make a natural point. I can get VERY fine lines with the tip of a size 1 or 2 brush. Of course, as I get older, my hands are less steady and making *straight* lines with a large brush is a whole different story! :-) Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:09:21 -0300 From: Guy & Sharon Campbell Subject: [scribes]: tracing Thanks again to all of you who answered by question about tracing....however I eventually gave up and drew the miniature freehand. UPS should be delivering the scrolls to the Crown even now. Hugs Felicity ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:31:44 -0500 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: gum arabic >>Gum arabic > >I have no idea what gum arabic is. I believe it acts as a binder with >pigments and that is why it is added to the sumi gold. > Gum arabic is dried tree sap. (I think it comes from some type of acacia tree???) It is ground up, dissolved in water and used as a binder for paint. It can also be used to wash down metal nibs to help the ink flow a little better. The FAQ for this list may have more information, but that's the extent of my knowledge. Ellen ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #163 *****************************